Is Truespace a good modeler because I can't afford 3d studio or lightwave.
Is Truespace any good?
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Is Truespace any good? i didnt like the ancient version i tried - dont know anything about the
new version... grab the demo + try it out?
new version... grab the demo + try it out?
Try Wings3D, or Blender if you want more than a modeller.
Its alright.
Blender is much better (watch the video tutorials on the blender website its easier than people say it is)
Blender is much better (watch the video tutorials on the blender website its easier than people say it is)
question is, are you a good modeler? if you are then there are planty of 3D applications that you could get for free or afford, if you are not then not even true space will make you better
true
just cos you can afford a block of marble doesnt mean you can make something with it
hell i cant even make splodge monsters with play doh
just cos you can afford a block of marble doesnt mean you can make something with it
hell i cant even make splodge monsters with play doh
Truespace is now free, why not just download it and try it out?
question is, are you a good modeler? if you are then there are planty of 3D applications that you could get for free or afford, if you are not then not even true space will make you better
Its called practice. People aren't born with a knowledge of 3D modelling. Its something that you have to learn, and you learn by doing. having a sensible UI helps oodles ;)
having a sensible UI helps oodles ;)
Yes, so that rules out Blender.But again, people who have sweated blood and learned how to use it don't complain so there must be some good in it if you're prepared to put the hours in.
There is. Blenders UI is great, totally customizable. In fact you can have a completely different switchable guis and views depending on what you are doing. I appreciate at first its seems confusing if used to the win32 standard. The actual ease of use and speed of navigation around the program goes up exponentially one you have got over the initially alien feel.
Which is why i recommend watching the getting started video. Without this there seems to be no starting point or logic to it.
Which is why i recommend watching the getting started video. Without this there seems to be no starting point or logic to it.
Blender's UI is improving vastly with upcoming releases, starting with some great tweaks in 2.50.
Frankly, I had trouble seeing why people consider Truespace's interface sensible, although that was an older release I played with and I may have missed the magic "make this interface not suck" switch. My big issue was that about 80% of the buttons had no labels - just icons - and tooltips never seemed to cooperate. The icons were not coherent enough to be useful. I'm sure it made the program easy to localize, but it didn't help for learning the thing.
In Blender, there are no icons and the half the text labels are cut off prematurely. I guess it isn't much better except that people universally agree the interface is ugly and want to fix it :/
Err, to each their own, I guess.
Still, what Blender does well is that the interface has an organic feel to it. It may be tough to learn, but there are benefits to the design, which is why it takes so long to improve the thing. Blender is entirely non-modal; there is never a popup or an operation that halts the rest of the program. Everything is done in real time on the stage. Views like the IPO curve editor have the same underlying behaviour, for example to move points, as the 3D view. Every operation is global to the entire document, so there is never a point where the data contained or displayed by two different views is inconsistent.
If Blender's interface looked pretty, was easy to learn and didn't have cut off labels it would be considered the Jesus interface.
Frankly, I had trouble seeing why people consider Truespace's interface sensible, although that was an older release I played with and I may have missed the magic "make this interface not suck" switch. My big issue was that about 80% of the buttons had no labels - just icons - and tooltips never seemed to cooperate. The icons were not coherent enough to be useful. I'm sure it made the program easy to localize, but it didn't help for learning the thing.
In Blender, there are no icons and the half the text labels are cut off prematurely. I guess it isn't much better except that people universally agree the interface is ugly and want to fix it :/
Err, to each their own, I guess.
Still, what Blender does well is that the interface has an organic feel to it. It may be tough to learn, but there are benefits to the design, which is why it takes so long to improve the thing. Blender is entirely non-modal; there is never a popup or an operation that halts the rest of the program. Everything is done in real time on the stage. Views like the IPO curve editor have the same underlying behaviour, for example to move points, as the 3D view. Every operation is global to the entire document, so there is never a point where the data contained or displayed by two different views is inconsistent.
If Blender's interface looked pretty, was easy to learn and didn't have cut off labels it would be considered the Jesus interface.
I just look at blenders load dialog and start to cry. Can't be bothered to even try and learn the tools when apps use crappy load dialogues that make navigating the HD a chore.
It has a lot of nice features though. and better support for games than most 3D apps outside of 3dsmax.
If you can't use it theres wings3d or milshape. Plus a couple of game animation tools went freeware recently.
CharacterFX FREE http://www.insanesoftware.de/index.php?page=home.php
Pacemaker FREE http://www.goddysey.com/pacemaker.htm
It has a lot of nice features though. and better support for games than most 3D apps outside of 3dsmax.
If you can't use it theres wings3d or milshape. Plus a couple of game animation tools went freeware recently.
CharacterFX FREE http://www.insanesoftware.de/index.php?page=home.php
Pacemaker FREE http://www.goddysey.com/pacemaker.htm
im working on learning while building models for my current game project and find silo 3d pretty easy to use. a couple of tutorials provided on the site got me going pretty quickly.
http://www.nevercenter.com/
http://www.nevercenter.com/
use crappy load dialogues that make navigating the HD a chore.
That surprises me actually, I find it just as fast as explorer. Why would you need to excessively navigate anyway? Most keep stuff in one tree (In my case its on a network path). It also remembers a list of all the recent directories visited that had file action for instant jumpto. Theres actually a few things about the file dialogs that are superior to the default win32 ones like you can use + for versioning and the way blend files are structures in their own right.There is also a graphical explorer for textures (hold ctrl when clicking open)
In Blender, there are no icons and the half the text labels are cut off prematurely.
You are probably running it in a lower res than 1280x1024. Rescale the panel then right click and arrange horizontal, it should fix this. Thats actually another thing i like is that the icons are text so you can actually see what you want.Anyway, back on topic, try it with the demos and see. Truespace also has an alien interface (although not as alien as blender, but not as good either). Both are more than capable modelers for doing this (indie games) stuff and a lot more.
Try Silo3D, it's very close to 3DSMax in terms of user-interface and the general way it works. I like it very much indeed.
http://www.nevercenter.com/
http://www.nevercenter.com/
I may be an oddball, but I found EVERY 3d Modeller to have an atrocious UI. Milkshape being the only one I could do something half decent with in under a day. The others just left me baffled on how to do anything.
sounds like you just need a quick intro video to look at. Modeling is pretty easy in most apps. The UI usually overwhelms and most of the time the 3% of tools you need for game modeling is all focused in one place. Probably won't touch 90% of the tools at all.
dynaman - have you tried Softimage XSI - I found it easy to use right from the beginning - seems quite intuitive.
Softimage was VERY expensive.
Just one thing you all should remember: If blender was so good as you might imply, then there would be a huge base of companies using it professionally...and it would be an industry standard.
PS: I'm a 3DS guy myself. Tried Blender once, didn't like it. 3DS fit me like a glove, and thus I recommend it to everyone, but since you are looking towards TSpace...
I believe Truespace was 'the' first modeller I actually used! It was an old free version, like 2.0 or something; I don't know how it's gotten now. If you're going with game dev, I'd suggest taking a look at GameSpace (from the same company, Caligari, but related to 3D asset creation for games). Might be a bit better. The download link is missing from its own website, unfortunately.
PS: I'm a 3DS guy myself. Tried Blender once, didn't like it. 3DS fit me like a glove, and thus I recommend it to everyone, but since you are looking towards TSpace...
I believe Truespace was 'the' first modeller I actually used! It was an old free version, like 2.0 or something; I don't know how it's gotten now. If you're going with game dev, I'd suggest taking a look at GameSpace (from the same company, Caligari, but related to 3D asset creation for games). Might be a bit better. The download link is missing from its own website, unfortunately.
3DS is WAY too expensive. I have no budget at all.
Caligari Gamespace had real stability issues, pretty much any command could cause it to crash, XSI was a similar price to Gamespace when I picked it up (and the exchange rate AUD->USD was good at the time too!)
Truespace is fine, it has its issues but a little time spent on learning the ins and outs can pay dividends.. and its free.
Its not for everyone and does not have a 'Make Uber Model Button' but it is now free soo people can judge for themselves.
Cheers
Garion
Its not for everyone and does not have a 'Make Uber Model Button' but it is now free soo people can judge for themselves.
Cheers
Garion
3dsmax biggest advantage is the huge third party support especially exporters. Most engines have some kind of direct native 3dsmax export, many even have some max specific pipeline enhancements that give a great deal of extra value that can't be found elsewhere.
EG B3d pipeline, Ofusion for 3dsmax all have custom extension libraries supporting unique features direct from your 3d app that save time and effort for both artists and programmers alike.
Many of the expensive apps can be leased if you have a company. eg. 3dsmax is about $110 a month including updates to lease. If your a student a feature complete educational version is about $180. Much better than when I was a student in the UK and there was no student version, only and educational establishment could get licenses for 1000 pounds a seat.
EG B3d pipeline, Ofusion for 3dsmax all have custom extension libraries supporting unique features direct from your 3d app that save time and effort for both artists and programmers alike.
Many of the expensive apps can be leased if you have a company. eg. 3dsmax is about $110 a month including updates to lease. If your a student a feature complete educational version is about $180. Much better than when I was a student in the UK and there was no student version, only and educational establishment could get licenses for 1000 pounds a seat.
Its called practice. People aren't born with a knowledge of 3D modelling. Its something that you have to learn, and you learn by doing.
That is strange GFK, I was born with it, what part of universe are you from?
Used Silo 2 as it is easy to models anythings without bog down to blender horrible user-interface!
That is strange GFK, I was born with it
No, you weren't. what part of universe are you from?
The part of the universe where newly born babies can't use 3DS Max. :rolleyes: The problem with Truespace is it's slow. It's tools (especially in 7) are badly layed out and don't have shortcuts. The camera movement will drive you insane the day you want to do things quickly. It's a very clunky program to use, meaning quick and fine work is a chore to do. Plus, it lacks a lot of solid 'meat and potato' modelling tools. The older versions are better, mainly because with version 7 they tried to do too much with the program. But, it's still too slow.
Max can be fast to use (for those who use it a lot), but it's modelling tools are clunky in many ways too, and lack some of the more obvious options. A lot of the time using it I felt I was battling against the standard UI conventions, having to click in each window before using a tool, which would then often deselect things. Plus, the manual sucks. Don't bother trying to learn from it! The tutorials are often wrong in what they say. That said, the online tutorials for Max are never ending, which is good. It's a big program, designed for professionals in the field. Most people won't need it.
Silo 2 is popular, but its UI can easily lead to model issues, because it's too easy to use things like extrude without noticing. Plus, the program has a fair share of bugs. Every model I made which testing it had issues I had to spend time fixing (and yes, I read the manual on how to use it). It has some good features, but is something of a ticking timebomb to use.
Blender isn't too bad these days. It's UI can be fairly bonkers at times, but it's usable once you track down the most recent handful of tutorials scattered across... well, a billion websites on the 'net (and good luck with that!). Another issue with Blender is that its modelling tools lack some very basic functions. Some of that functionality can be added with plugins, but they're often buggy and don't translate from version to version. If you've used a better modeller, you might get frustrated at certain functions which are missing from the lineup.
XSI (although costly) is my favourite. It's fast and solid. One of its downsides is that the controls are quite strange. You have to spend a fair amount of time in the manual before you become fluid with them, and understand how the program as a whole works. Plus, XSI lacks mirror modelling (a solid version of it, anyway) and a pelt mapper, which isn't a great thing. As with Max, most people won't need XSI, but for those who do the modelling tools it has are well recognised as some of the best.
Wings3D is fantastic. It's a little clunky when you first start learning it, but it grows on you quickly. However, compared to the others listed Wings3D is a closed modeller, meaning you can't have any open geometry. Closed modelling is a good skill to learn, but it does count you out of many humanoid building methods (it restricts you to box modelling).
So summing up! Should you grab Truespace? Sure, but read the manual (not the vids- the manual is actually much better) but be prepared for a slow workflow.
Max can be fast to use (for those who use it a lot), but it's modelling tools are clunky in many ways too, and lack some of the more obvious options. A lot of the time using it I felt I was battling against the standard UI conventions, having to click in each window before using a tool, which would then often deselect things. Plus, the manual sucks. Don't bother trying to learn from it! The tutorials are often wrong in what they say. That said, the online tutorials for Max are never ending, which is good. It's a big program, designed for professionals in the field. Most people won't need it.
Silo 2 is popular, but its UI can easily lead to model issues, because it's too easy to use things like extrude without noticing. Plus, the program has a fair share of bugs. Every model I made which testing it had issues I had to spend time fixing (and yes, I read the manual on how to use it). It has some good features, but is something of a ticking timebomb to use.
Blender isn't too bad these days. It's UI can be fairly bonkers at times, but it's usable once you track down the most recent handful of tutorials scattered across... well, a billion websites on the 'net (and good luck with that!). Another issue with Blender is that its modelling tools lack some very basic functions. Some of that functionality can be added with plugins, but they're often buggy and don't translate from version to version. If you've used a better modeller, you might get frustrated at certain functions which are missing from the lineup.
XSI (although costly) is my favourite. It's fast and solid. One of its downsides is that the controls are quite strange. You have to spend a fair amount of time in the manual before you become fluid with them, and understand how the program as a whole works. Plus, XSI lacks mirror modelling (a solid version of it, anyway) and a pelt mapper, which isn't a great thing. As with Max, most people won't need XSI, but for those who do the modelling tools it has are well recognised as some of the best.
Wings3D is fantastic. It's a little clunky when you first start learning it, but it grows on you quickly. However, compared to the others listed Wings3D is a closed modeller, meaning you can't have any open geometry. Closed modelling is a good skill to learn, but it does count you out of many humanoid building methods (it restricts you to box modelling).
So summing up! Should you grab Truespace? Sure, but read the manual (not the vids- the manual is actually much better) but be prepared for a slow workflow.
XSI has great mirror modelling! I use it every day for 8 hours at work and don't usually have any problems with it.
Thank you Reactor.
No, you weren't.
yes I was GFK, I was born with gift for sculpting, max is just a tool, it's learnt in 5-10 sessions :p
My favorite for making models is hexagon but it isn't free. Truespace is a good tool for animating and saving as .x files. If you try it check out the video tutorials for the basics and the manual for specifics, it will really help. You can also make talking heads with it with facial animator.
Don't care much for the uv mapping tools. It will get you started on the cheap.
FYI gamespace is dead microsoft bought them and canned it. I think they wanted their trueplaces software.
Don't care much for the uv mapping tools. It will get you started on the cheap.
FYI gamespace is dead microsoft bought them and canned it. I think they wanted their trueplaces software.
XSI has great mirror modelling! I use it every day for 8 hours at work and don't usually have any problems with it.
Oh for sure, it's usable. It's just a cloned 'other half' of your model will never be as flexible as a true mirror modelling mode, which prevents you moving parts of your model through the 'mirror'.
And DeleD?
DeleD is a CSG modeller, which is like 3D World Studio. It uses a form of boolean operation to form shapes from primitives. It's not a polygon editor like Silo, or Truespace... even though you'll find boolean operations in both. I liked DeleD more than 3DWS functionality-wise, but the camera control was just bad in DeleD. 3DWS is a joy to use by comparison.
Hexagon 2 isn't too bad as a basic poly modeller, but it's fairly bug ridden and lacks some very basic tools. I've seen some amazing models made with it, but the program needs a fair amount of work, and many of its tools have bizarre control schemes.
With 3d apps they are all similar but different. Each has its merits and usually artists find one that suits their personal work flow best and sticks with that.
It's a bit like an artist choosing a medium of choice. You just have to find the one that works for you. Close behind that for me is finding the best pipeline for your engine. My commercial 3dsmax exporter costs more than most of the commonly used indie engine licenses.
It's a bit like an artist choosing a medium of choice. You just have to find the one that works for you. Close behind that for me is finding the best pipeline for your engine. My commercial 3dsmax exporter costs more than most of the commonly used indie engine licenses.
If blender was so good as you might imply, then there would be a huge base of companies using it professionally
Well it did all the animation rigging and protoytyping for the spiderman2 movie. I cant think of any other huge claims to fame for it but thats pretty big. So what if its not a major industry standard? It is -as good- in many ways and not as good in others (mainly in the production output rendering) according to comparison charts. Are you honestly going to stand there and say you need an multi $K industry standard ray-tracing and modelling studio for doing an indie game in b3d? You have made me chuckle. Either way its more powerful than truspace which is most certainly not an industry leading app.
Hexagon 2 isn't too bad as a basic poly modeller, but it's fairly bug ridden and lacks some very basic tools. I've seen some amazing models made with it, but the program needs a fair amount of work, and many of its tools have bizarre control schemes.
I haven't had any issues with bugs seems very stable. I do think it's tools are good enough to make most models you would use in a game without much problem. Im using 2.5 and it works great. Not a lot of shortcut tools just good basic tools need to make good models. It's just not bloated with fluff.
"amazing models" that might be due to some talented folks hanging out at DAZ.
Not sure what the controls scheme is about but I have found if to be very easy to use and well organized. Modeling tools slide out on top, properties slide out on right, scene tools slide out on bottom and material and shading slide out on the left. Just my opinion but I think it's better than most.
I must have seen upwards of 50 bugs in Hex 2. The bug list over at Daz was chocked full of issues people were having. Just the other day I got a report of two issues being fixed for 2.5, all this time after its release.
With Hex 2- try doing the 'one key' quick extrude on an angled surface, in the direction of an axis. You'll notice it won't let you. The little arrow will only let you move in the direction of the face's normal. It's small things like that which make Hex 2 a little frustrting to use, at times.
With Hex 2- try doing the 'one key' quick extrude on an angled surface, in the direction of an axis. You'll notice it won't let you. The little arrow will only let you move in the direction of the face's normal. It's small things like that which make Hex 2 a little frustrting to use, at times.