What do you think of "Achievements"?

I'm really not sure about achievements and wether they are a good or bad thing.

I think, philosphyically, they are patronising and a bit pointless and I worry about the development time (that could surely be better spent on virtually anything else), wasted on putting them in.

It also annoys me how there is no consistency in the values given for achievements in the scheme. Also many of the achievements added are incredibly boring "box ticking" items which nobody would do FOR FUN (which is why I never do them). This happens even in really good games, and you can't help feeling this detracts from the game, annoys the developer, and they are only added because Microsoft tells them that they must be there.

Finally it actually annoys me that achievements DO NOT represent in any way the "completeness" of a game as most people playing it would understand it. For example, I have completed in most meaningful ways: Assasin's Creeed, Mass Effect, Halo 3 and Fable 2 (amongst others), yet according the achiements bar for all those tames I have completed less than 1/2 (or in Halo's case only 10%!) of the achievements and "Gamerscore". This does irritate me.

However at the end of all that I do have to confess I do rather like it when an achievement pops up (as long as this is done at a sensitive time). It's kind of like the game saying "Hey, you did something cool, and I noticed!", a little like showing off to your friends but without the boorishness. I do however not bother spending time I would not have spent on the game getting achievements (unless it is very obvious and easy) simply because I don't see the point. I have seen people trying to sell terrible games on E-bay with the tag line "2000 EASY points!", to which my response is "who cares?".

What do you think about achievements, do you think Microsoft's introduction of them into "Games for Windows" is a good or bad thing and do you think they are overall positive or negative? Have you had to create achievements for one of your games and how did you find the process? Does it create a barrier an extra barrier to entry for smaller developers?

Darkheart

I like achievements in more casual, or pick up and play type games where it helps stir that competitive streak. I don't like it in deep games, especially single player games unless it's something like rank in say Elite.

Having them in for the sake of it doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and in many cases online rankings/scores etc are all thats needed.

Thats my opinion anyway.

congratulations you're not dead
thats the only REAL achievement that counts

People love them. If you've got time, add them.

They were compulsory if I wanted to get Tank Universal on Steam.

Not much interested in them personally, except as a novelty, but some gamers make it a goal to complete them all within a game.

It wasn't too much effort to implement them.

In Team Fortress 2 achievements = different weapons!

But Im not one to get them all... Ive read people playing Left 4 Dead try to get all the achievements... but meh to that!

Saying that... I am going to add some sort of achievements to my next game ;-)

I don't like them. One of those things you can do if you're trying to pimp simple games and trying to add more pseudo depth/value to a game. In a few cases it works, mostly it's a drag. If you need achievements i somehow would question the core menachincs/game design of the game but i wouldn't be suprised if there are people out there who like them.

this is a cool link for steam achievement stats, although the number of players is a bit on the low side, so maybe their crawler isn't very good?

http://dev.zr40.nl/steam/games

I think people like them, and they are also fairly easy to add. Obviously some achievements are better than others, but on the whole i think they are fun.

For indie games, i think on Steam it seems to be mandatory to add them now. i didn't have to add them to Bullet Candy when that was released (i think it was before they started doing them anyway) unlike MadJack.


Cheers
Charlie

Personally I despise them.

Achievements can be fun sometimes, and if you can unlock secret items with them it's even better.

I remember a funny achievment in one of the Half-Life 2 episodes where you put a gardengnome on a rocket. You wouldn't get any special items from it, but it was a funny one to do.

Achievement Unlocked

Achievements are a waste of time. They are there to artificially pad out a game - a cheap, quick, and lazy way for developers to "extend" gameplay without having to add anything of any real substance.

In short, achievements fit into the same lazy category as coin collecting and mirrored levels; a category generally used to fool younger gamers into believing that their new game has more than eight hours of gameplay.

I personally don't like them.

I don't take any notice of them, although I admit it's pleasing when the message appears that you'ev achieved such-and-such.

I think that they should have

a: Some reasonable relevance (i.e. being some way to 'completing' the game or the aim of the storyline*)

b: Some actual sense of reward for the achievement.

*
For example, imagine a game involves entering a castle to rescue the princess. Achievements could be gained through, say, rescuing the princess' staff along the way. Not essential for game completion, but could be smeything of a 'side-quest' through which yyou are still working towards the ultimate aim of the game, whilst it is not an essential feature.

Achievements are nothing new. Nintendo, for example, has been doing them for decades. Them being arbitrary and largely pointless is nothing new either. Collect 100 stars to free the princess, anyone?

It's just that they've now formalized them and made them announce themselves. Players seem to like them, so what's the harm? They're usually added as an afterthought, so it's not as though they're affecting game design.

i agree with relevanc to the game, some are just lazy add ons from what ive read (not got any 'current' games)

penny arcde did a nice pic and red vs blue a video on the pro's of achievements, even to the extent of having an achievement hunter section of their site
i watched one for GTA whre the goal was to street brawl as many people (or a set minimum) in an alloted time span
granted this is normal for GTA

i never got all chaos emeralds in sonic 2 (nor did i beat it, no save game helped put me off the man hours redoing what id done) so ive no idea if you HAD to get all of em to finish or its just better to have em all

it wasnt the end of the world if you couldnt kill the car in streetfighter 2 but the bonus to your score certainly helps

my own persoal fave would be for shoot em ups
for every enemy ship you didnt destroy thats one more ship still on its way to your home planet so what if your single ship destroyed 8 leel bosses and the big boss too
your home town and the girl you were gonna marry got wiped out by a stray squadron from level 2

*appologies for any missed off letters my keyboard or pc isnt regisering every key stroke for some reason*

The may be a cheap way of adding a meta game, but the fact remains that people love being told "well done you've unlocked/achieved X" so even if you personally dislike them, adding them to your game may increase sales.

I don't think I've noticed them, either that or the games I've played didn't have any? Actually - maybe the Dungeon Keeper series had some - I remember enjoying reading the list of 'cruel deeds etc' performed in the previous game session, but none of these were essential to complete a level.

It's just another way of measuring ePenises. And it makes you look small compared to 12 year old dicks. So yeah, not in favor!

lol. Sure but how come women enjoy collecting trophies in casual games then? Is it to satisfy their virtual penises? I think it's because people like "Collecting" things, and trophies are just a higher level of collecting things than stars/coins in a level. People like feeling they've achieved someting. I enjoy collecting them in my XBox360 games more than I have on any previous games, perhaps because they are tied into the GamerScore system. However I don't get them all, I look at what ones are feasible and which ones are crazy and I ignore the crazy ones as I'm a busy guy. I feel good when I get some of the harder ones, I guess it's a way for some players to get extra value/challenge from a game.

Achievements are usually for people without a real life.