So, who is winning 360,PS3 or Wii ?

this makes for interesting reading, suggests XBox360 has the lead by 1 million consoles....

http://www.eurogamer.net/article_discussion.php?article_id=344133

So, who do you think as the best marketing campaign this christmas? I think XBox's short and sweet adverts (in the UK) are hitting home - especially the cheaper price tags. I think the Xbox360 appeals more to mature serious gamers than the Wii, then the Wii for the novelty value and finally the PS3 due to its slightly higher price and limited games. PS3 does have blue ray however.....

My personal console winner is the iPodTouch.

Between those three i would pick up the PS3, also due to BluRay.

I don't have a console yet, because the one I want 360, doesn't have bluray, and I need more than just games to make a console and TV upgrade worthwhile.

Kind of a shame because I have been seriously tempted to get a 360 at least 2x a year since launch day.

PS3 just doesn't have anything I particularly care about, and the wii is just a novelty that I can't afford. So I'm stuck with my old pc for now :) I have a feeling I'll be getting a new one of those before a console because single core cpu and GPU 2 generations old is just starting to struggle with new games.

I think looking pure to what you get for your money it will be the XBox360, even though I wouldn't want any of them.

downsides :

- Xbox360

Windows Live not free, and the not fixed hw problem with drive killing discs.

- Wii

No HD for patches/saves at least (Mario Kart had bug you can cheat and they wouldn't give people a fixed version) and graphics are way out of date.

- PS3

Most expensive and not downwards compatible with previous Playstation.


So I stick with my PC for gaming.

Aren't you going to post the 'downside' to that? I.e. it costs a fortune to get a PC anywhere near good enough to play modern games on.

i am very pleased with my xbox360, the scenery on my hd telly and music within oblivion the elder scrolls is really quite something. Oh and there is PGR4, the replays of the races are something else. The photo option is great fun and a good way of storing your spectacular crashes.

Apparently there is a Blu ray peripheral available for the box now for £100 or so.

Well considering the XBox has been out more than a year longer than Wii and is now significantly cheaper, it's not really surprising that the Xbox claims to be ahead - if you are inclined to believe them (others claim that Wii has consistantly outsold the 360 since launch). Who do you believe? Don't forget that there were (and still are in some palces) Wii shortages...

I own a 360 and a Wii and can say that I am very happy with both machines and look forward to a happy console gaming future with them. Admittedly there is a bit of lack of quality Wii software (especially from Nintendo at the moment, but what they have done has been excellent).

Just buy the machine that you feel will benefit you and enjoy it - don't worry, whinge or put down the machines you don't have. It is pointless, as every machine has pros and cons and loyal supporters to poke you in the eye with a big stick while disputing your claims.

Wasn't the PS2 still leading in sales last December? That's the most cost effective way to get quality gaming... the graphics are just as good as Wii, free online, and a ton of great new and used games available.

all of them is winning

@iprice, yes we have a Wii and 360 also, and an old PS2.

@Sauer: I've never ventured or tried to with my PS2 - how much is the hardware to do it - is there any benefits?

Here in the US it doesn't cost a lot to buy a puter that plays modern games though. Less than a PS3 at launch.

My computer can play all the latest games and would cost about $300 to replace with a faster puter, So long as I go with the local stores weekly specials on a good week. Not including mouse, keyboard, PSU, case and monitor.

I agree with this... Sure, one of the consoles will sell more than the others, but I doubt that it'll be a dominating victory for anyone. No NES vs Master System, exactly. We might end up with three different consoles for three different market segments.

Given that they don't make money on hardware, only on software, I don't think it really matters who's winning. Worldwide, I would assume Nintendo have sold more hardware, but they've also sold the least number of games per console owner, while Microsoft are probably third on hardware but have sold the most number of games per console owner. Sony seem to be second in both. So in terms of money in the bank, there's probably not as much in it as you might think.

Are you talking about online? As far as I know the new slim PS2 you just plug an ethernet cable into it and you're on your way.

Nintendo makes a profit on every Wii sold.

the old PS2 has no such port

I attached an ethernet adaptor to mine.

Right for the old thick one you need the adapter, but the new slim one is plug and go. It's very easy to do and again... entirely free!

thanks for the feedback, but is it worth getting an ethernet adaptor or can i simply download ps2 content to usb stick & plug into PS2?

No they don't. They claim to, but they don't. I used to work for them, so I know full well that this has always been an important claim for them, but I also know how much of the retail price actually gets back to them.

EDIT: However, it is true that Nintendo generally take a higher percentage on third party games than either of the other two.

It says here (http://www.nexgenwars.com) that the Wii still has the most consoles sold. The 360 is in second and, unsurprisingly, the PS3 is in last.

How do they rank in terms of units of software sold? More specifically units of third party software?

Sony last week announced that they were laying off 16000 employees. 10% of their worldwide workforce which can't be good. Don't know how many of those directly relate to games and playstation which was typically one of their more profitable areas of business.

With the new price reduction for the XBox360, I don't think you can get a better deal for its price. Even though I didn't feel the need (the only excuse would be to be able to code for it...) I got a 360 a while ago and to my surprise I noticed that some people I know did the same.

Personally I was looking forward the live arcade, and both the new dashboard and the marketplace surpassed my expectations. Even though I'm very used to the shareware model, the overall experience in the living room with a bunch of pads and the arcade selection was very close to feeling I had in the 80s when I tried C64 cassettes with my family, with the added bonus of choosing and trying them from home before buying. Actually I don't care much about the boxed titles, and look forward spending some hours during the holidays playing arcade games with friends and family.

I really liked the interface too: I configured home networks of Wii's, PSP's and PS3's, and this is the clearest and most comprehensive of the bunch. I also like how profile management, passive downloads, and other settings are handled... they put a lot of thought in it and it really shows the difference in experience regarding OS management against the competition (after all Sony and Nintendo are new to this).


I think that the new dashboard combined to the live arcade actually reduced that gap quite a lot. I really like the concept behind Wii's controller, but not the actual implementation, and Nintendo seems to share the same feeling since they are working on their 'MotionPlus' add-on which should capture space positioning other than acceleration.


That's a myth. I don't know about the UK, but in most european countries and in the US a PC far more powerful than a XBox360 or a PS3 costs about 320 EUR / 450 USD, which is actually cheaper then a PS3 and slightly more costly than a XBox360. If you look at the right stores and avoid branded desktops (such as Packard Bell, Dell, etc.) you can find very good deals. And games get cheaper sooner than console counterparts too.


Sincerily, I don't understand. Such a claim could only lower their reputation since competitors tell the opposite and customers like to believe that they get more for the money, so why should they lie?

>>That's a myth. I don't know about the UK, but in most european countries and in the US a PC far more powerful than a XBox360 or a PS3 costs about 320 EUR / 450 USD, which is actually cheaper then a PS3 and slightly more costly a XBox360.<<

Very true..8800GTS is less than 100 bucks and kick ass over every console out there..for example, Tomb Raider Underworld on my PS3, on few places struggling very noticable, while same game on my 8800GT running smooth like silk at maximum settings..

Why does it lower their reputation? It paints them as a company who are responsible and businesslike, refusing to sell at a loss and make it up on games. It paints them as a company which is in it for the long run and wouldn't get out if the going got tough. Which, to be fair, they are and they wouldn't. I'm not personally a big fan of the software or the hardware, but I feel Sony and Microsoft would both get out of the business in short time if it suited their business. Nintendo, on the other hand, didn't get out of the home console market when the N64 and GameCube tanked.

For the hardcore gamer, maybe you're right, maybe it does give a perception of less bang for the buck, but the hardcore gamer isn't going to buy a Wii or even a DS in the first place. I think the sort of plain-Jane, no-nonsense professional attitude they (in some regards) have and (in other regards) pretend to have are exactly what parents and stockholders like to hear. Nintendo have never been about being glitzy and exciting, that was always Sony's thing, and latterly Microsoft's too.


Yeah, I've heard a lot of negative comments about it, but I find it more logical and more responsive than the old dashboard. Having said that, illogical layout and lack of responsiveness seem to be the most common complaints too, so perhaps it just suits me better than the "blades". I'm not big on the Live Arcade stuff, but they do have a good range of free and premium DLC, which while arguably profiteering, I think adds value to a game.

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe and it's certainly not what the industry says -

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060915-7752.html

http://news.spong.com/article/16666/Nintendos_Profit_Per_Wii_Stated

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/nintendo-nets-6-profit-off-each-wii

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/32535/Nintendo-Makes-6-From-Every-Wii-Sold

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/02/nintendo_per_console_profit/

http://seekingalpha.com/article/34357-game-console-wars-ii-nintendo-shaves-off-profits-leaving-competition-scruffy

This is analytical information though, so not necessairly totally accurate, but there are many, many, many more sites all stating the same thing - the figures vary, but they all state that Nintendo IS making a profit on each Wii sold. Are they all wrong?

Given that the only ones which make any attempt to back up what they say all stem from the same original article in Forbes, which is the opinion of just one analyst, I wouldn't say your inference that it's me versus the entire industry is an entirely accurate portrayal. So if you'll forgive me making your question a little more accurate. Am I saying that Dave Gibson is wrong? Yes, I am. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about why.

Have you tried the Wii and PS3? Not that I agree in either case, but since you are talking about responsiveness (menu clicking with the wii is not exactly precise), logic and layout (definitely lacking in the PS3)...

I don't agree about the voluntarily spread 'lie' about the hardware profit of the Wii too, as it is very farfetched. I easily agree that Nintendo sounds 'honest' to their customers by admitting that they make profit out of the hardware, but I hardly believe that they would lie about it if it was not the case.

[sorry, double post]

Personally, I think Sony is the most deserving of success at this point. Any of Microsoft's marketing is offset by bad press resulting from the fact that the xbox hardware was designed by buffoons.
The gfx card in my brother's recently died out of warranty, so he had to murder it with a pillow (RROD) to get it fixed. This is quite telling: the xbox 360 is remarkably good at breaking.

The PS3, on the other hand, while originally a bit uncertain, is completely solid so far and has had the whole product line cleanly tuned down to a single package. (Which can only be good for marketing). It remains a better deal with wifi hardware and whatnot. (Whereas wifi for the 360 costs $100). I have seen a lot of people buy these lately.

Can't say I own either; I am happy with my personal computer. My 8600M has not failed me yet. (Except for drivers. I swear, if Nvidia keeps up these uselessly confusing "fix one thing, break another three" driver releases I'll switch to Intel).
I am super jealous of its desktop counterpart, though :P

@Doirin - couldn't agree wqith you more with respect to the quality feel of the XBox360 - despite having to replace my 1st xbox after just 5 weeks due to dodgy hardware.

The XBox360 has been implemented with a great deal of attention paid to its UI, and the new NXE dashboard with the avatars and all akes it appealig to children.

@GFK : I use one PC to do all, mine cost about 670 Euros half a year ago and these parts will be a lot cheaper now. For specs see below the post.
What I also want to mention is that I don't have any of the downsides the consoles have.
Maybe the only downside on PC is DRM at this moment but that is not a limit of the PC, but rather bad software.
And besides that 670 Euros is more then a PS3 maybe, but even if I had a PS3 for gaming, I still needed a PC for programming, drawing stuff and using my office tools. So don't tell me a PC is more expensive if you need one besides your PS3 anyway. Even if you would prefer controllers, I can just go out and buy me an xBox360 controller for my PC or one from Logitech that looks and feels almost like a PS3 one. Another advantage is that I don't have to swap discs anymore, just click on the game from the menu and play, so scratched/defect discs is something of the past for me too so i can live without any console.

But getting back on topic xBox360 is the best deal at this moment, only 150 Euros in Europe at this moment.

I just bought a PS3 today, but haven't really seen any good games for it yet. The main reasons why I bought it, is that I can watch BD movies and make simple PS3 games.

Have a PS3 at the house now for the past 2 months. Not pleased at all. Menu is very unorthodox and illogically laid out. Games are sparse (decent games), graphics aren't all that impressive (even on an HD 53" like I have). Online play is sparse (seems no one is online ever). BT devices always change states (need to reassign controllers constantly). Haven't tried the blue ray yet as I really don't care. DVD quality is ok for me in most cases. Waiting for some things to put their install on the system kinda sucks. Socom took 40 min to install and then another 8 to update before we could even play, which was ONLINE ONLY (bastards).... But the online is ok, text is way to unreadable in some wide screen situations. Wish they would have made it 2 player split screen in addition to the online only, that way we wouldnt have to switch the controller back and forth between my buddy and I between maps.

Resent purchasing it....

Own a Wii since last xmas. Like the dashboard, love the channels. Not enough channels. not enough content. The builtin browser (opera right?) doesnt cut it for today's flash world. Not much HD space. Controls are very unresponsive (FPS games are crap on it cause half the time you have to wait to see where your curser has gone off to. Then you have to move the stick around a ton just to get it back). Having to get the right lighting conditions to play a game makes me realize that I should have become a photographer before trying out the Wii. "Ok, what shades need to be closed, what objects are reflecting too much light, where the hell did the curser go again. I'm pointing at the bottom of the screen however the mouse is only half the way down the screen....WTF". Game selection is somewhat sparse, online play is usually non-existant or very lacking. Not really a social system like they advertised it to be (cause you communicate using messages, outside of the game, meaning you MUST exit the game in order to use the dashboard, and the messaging system is the worst UI I have ever seen).

Resent purchasing it......

Brother-N-Law has borrowed me his xbox360 a few times. Love the new UI, much better than the old one. Controls are as responsive as a console can get. The dashboard actually has a cozy functionality to it. Online socializing is actually useful as you can see who is playing what, how they compare to you in stuff, and so on. The games are about as good looking as the PS3 (sometimes a bit better on the HD by comparison). Overheating issues suck, fan solves it. Having to buy a ton of Add-ons kinda sucks, but it's worth it. Downloadable DEMOS ROCK!!!!! And the downloads are super fast (faster than the pc, even though it's through the same pipe however the xbox is on wireless, so that means the xbox network is pretty fast). Not a big fan of the controller, never was, but you get used to it. Bigger HDD options, which is good for downloading and what not.

Will be buying one after xmas for the family!

Overall, here is my take. I know after all is said and done you can claim this can do this and that but that can only do that and what not. Bottom line is that I want to have fun, I want to be entertained, I want more than an hours worth of entertainment.... PS3 fell way too short, and I cannot justify having a 400-600 dollar blue ray player that just sits there when i am not watching a Blue ray movie. Wii was a fun little device for the party games. Everyone got up, tried to figure out the controls, usually figured out the workarounds to get the needed results, and then forgot about the system all together... Xbox seems to have it all, minus the gimmick control style mind you. The social network is very solid. The hardware and games are varried. And it is supported by M$ who seems to be doing very well with the system.

So after all this, I'll be sellin the PS3 to a guy who really wants it (aside from my telling him my honest thoughts on it) at work. The wii will continue to collect dust because I received too many games as gifts last year to sell it and disappoint those who went to the hard work to find me stuff for it. And I'll be picking up an 360 elite after the holiday even though I have to pay for online play (cause even if something is free, it has to actually have people playing, otherwise I'd rather just pay for it to be part of the social experience).

Whew! I'm not bias, honestly. I gave everyone of them a fair shot (starting with the wii and working my way down the list) in hopes of an entertaining experience.

I could have bought a BD player, but it would be quite useless to have one piece of hardware filling up the living room just to do just one job. At least the PS3 gives me the possibility to do more than just watching BDs and DVDs. Maybe one day I will even buy a game for it, although the console games are damn expensive. It must be a game then which will not be released on PC, because else I would buy the PC version instead.

PS3 - Yep, pretty happy with it. But I have a PSP, so I'm kinda already programmed for the layout. Wii - No.


Well I know for a fact that they were doing it with the consoles they were making when I worked for them, so it doesn't seem terribly far-fetched to me. I thought it was downright bizarre at the time, but when journalists were asking why the console was so much more expensive in the UK than the rest of Europe, we were told to stress the huge margins which retailers insisted upon with the threat of refusing to sell if they didn't get it. Which was true. Woolworths - somewhat ironically - were the worst. Yet when we were being asked about the console being sold at a profit, we were supposed to not mention those self-same huge profit margins and hope the journalists wouldn't remember.

Fortunately, most journalists are a remarkably lazy bunch who will write just about anything if you write it all up for them so that they can pretty much just copy and paste it into their DTP program without having to engage their brain or put down their beer.

@DH, yep I like the xbox360 too.

Actually, they're all losing compared to the previous generation.

@Hotcakes, given time I reckon the top 3 might read as Wii,X360 then PS3. Wii for novelty,x360 for quality and ps3 for the blu ray.

The 360 has the best games, IMHO this is the most important thing for a games console.

The Wii is fun but doesn't have many good games and this IS a problem, the Wii also does not have HD and a substandard graphics engine and no DVD playback, this is also a problem.

The PS3 has Blueray, and if you care about Blueray a lot then this makes it a good buy, otherwise it's too expensive and doesn't have the games you want to play on it.

Darkheart

@Darkheart, I agree, when switching from the X360 to the Wii, the graphics look grainy to say the least.

Tell me about it. My sisters bf's xbox360 destroyed his copy of GTA IV. Do you even get a refund on the game if that happens?

I have, tbh, found myself playing pixel junk monster, the tower defence game on PS3, more than the big budget games. I think the extra dimension kills alot of games. You spend most time wondering about and not actually doing anything, which isn't really fun. That's what made games fun. Constant action, or puzzles! Just something to do.

I feel too, that graphics are getting so dense, it's getting harder and harder to see pickups, health picks, guns etc etc.

In the old ps/ps2/xbox days, you could didn't have lots of grass, super detailed textures getting in the way :o) More and more detail is equating to less fun and more frustration i feel.

Regarding more and more detail getting in the way of gameplay... it does not happen all the time - for example Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fable 2, PGR4 all good examples of >detail improves the gameplay.

Sorry I cannot speak for PS3 games, don't have one.

Wii won me. It got me off my a$$.

Comparing wii to 360 is like comparing apples to oranges. They serve different crowds. If you like the hard crunch its a 360 soft and sweet its the wii.

They are both winning their own race just on different tracks.

BluRay players like the Samsung BDP-1500 are under $200 in a couple of local stores now. Not much point if like you only have a 27" tube tv.

Having just joined the current gen' I gotta say I noticed exactly the same thing -- it's a stylistic* error, really, but luckily there are so many worthwhile games out there that you can just dismiss the ones that clatter into this first hurdle out of hand. I also noticed a few FPSs have fairly horrific FOV settings -- Quake 4 and Call Of Juarez in particular -- that force you to squint at enemies even on a decent sized telly. I think developers forget that not everyone has a reference standard HD flatscreen filling one of their walls.

On the original topic, I suspect this will turn out to be a bit of a monster season for the 360. I'm not sure that gaming is as recession-proof as some people like to think but the 360 hardware and software have both pretty much come down to impulse purchasing territory. We (me and Mrs Sledge) dallied with the idea of a Wii Revolution for a bit but, aside from the fact that Tenchu is the only Wii Revolution game I'm remotely interested in, I was fair appalled that the thing cost as much as a 60GB 360. Both the PS3 and Wii Revolution strike me as having the bang-per-buck a bit off given what you get for your wonga with Microsoft's effort.


*I reckon regular ol' XBox Doom 3 looks better than 360 Quake 4, and it's all down to style rather than detail. Ditto for (360) Tomb Raider Legend looking better than (360) Underworld.

Well, it's funny, because I always thought that the aforementioned consoles dumbed down the whole gaming market and it reflected negatively expecially on PC games. Gameplay, controls and graphics (these last two ones mostly thanks to the PSX and PS2) went down the drain during the transition to mass market. And don't get me started about writing in the last two generations of games...

@Doiron,



I could not disagree more. I suppose your point is directed at a specific genre? if so what one - I presume its the FPS ....

Anyhoo - I was playing PGR4 on my next Gen X360 this afternoon & the gameplay is outstanding - one review I read suggested the 'normal' level as too hard - no it just makes the game more worthwhile playing. The controls for this are spot on & the graphics are outstanding eye candy.

PGR4 aces PGR2 on the old xbox - which you'd expect.

There you go, my 2 bob.

Well, I thought of almost all genres, and it hits sports as well.

Even though PGR4 has top notch graphics (excellent level design, truly exceptional) it isn't nearly as deep as a simulation or nearly as fast paced as an action racing game. It compensates with mildly entertaining gameplay and lots of content, which makes it very polished but that's it. It's not as much as unrealistic as Codemasters games, but as a simulation is light years away from to Richard Burns Rally, and as an arcade game it isn't nearly half fast paced as Flatout or the first NFS Underground. IMO the same goes for Gran Turismo, which has always been marketed as *the* racing simulation by fans which clearly don't know better...

I'm not a big fan of most realistic racing simulations however (such as SimBin games, for example) which are often unrealistic despite the marketing and far from fun. Also, I'll never be good enough to drive a proper rally in Richard Burns, but it thought some insight on safe driving which comes useful even in real life (which is hard to say with any other game in the genre, period). As for gaming, I prefer racing games in the vein of Flatout or Burnout, but I don't play sport games so much. The best mix between realism and arcade racing (mostly due to tuning) in my opinion was the old Indy Car Racing.

EDIT: Still in sports games, it makes me think about Virtua Tennis and its clones such as Top Spin: we settled for LOTS of minigames and a bunch of reconstucted tennis players, but I don't see a proper Tennis simulation with career and tournaments since Great Courts 2, which is creepy. We could still cope with some more depth, since when managed as it should it doesn't get in the middle of gameplay but enhances it... and in this case it's very easy: add a new gameplay mode in addition to the arcade one, or merge the two ones. The reality is that it's less risky and it requires much less time to enanche the visuals than the gameplay.

Just had a fantastic karaoke style evening with a competitive slant - the LIPS game on the XBOX360. I confess I've never been a massive karaoke fan - however the competitive edge to it makes it brilliant family fun.

Merry Christmas then.

what does it matter? its like saying who is winning between a ford escort, a volvo c70 and a nissan micra.

Variety is good.

i like the way they are still making ps2 ports of ps3/360 games, hardly giving ps2 owners need to upgrade (that and the lack of backwards compatibility), yet find a game for the 'classic' Xbox afaik it wasnt long after the 360 was out that it was dropped like a hot potato

And also demonstrating that most "next gen" games are PS2 games with hardware shaders...


The original XBox didn't sell nearly as much as the PS2, so it wouldn't be worth to convert games for it. The 360 outsold the original XBox lasth month (so there are about 25 millions XBox), while the PS2 has sold more than 140 millions units worldwide and the Slim continues to sell. In a way we could say that it is the most profitable console to develop on, granted that anyone who still owns a PS2 still buys games for it (which isn't true of course, yet summing up the sales of all next gen consoles we can't get even near the sales of the PS2).

it does make you wonder what if anything outside of blu-ray is out for a ps2 owner to tempt them to upgrade

also the 'classic' lego starwars was about £10 cheaper, just for flashier graphics? its lego ffs :D

Personally I can't stand playing a stripped down version of a game (that's why I hate when PC conversion are derived from the PS2 port instead of the original 360 one), but you've got a point. :)

Also, who only owns a PS2 by now and still buys games for it most probably doesn't care about the difference.

On a side note, lately I've tried many 360 live arcade games, and there aren't so many quality titles out there as I thought.

With a few exceptions (such as Castle Crashers, Bionic Commando Rearmed, Mutant Storm Empire, Pac-Man Championship, Rez HD), games made by valued companies like Capcom could have been done better by indies. Surprisingly enough the Dreamcast would still be my console of choice for arcade games.

Our PS2 is on its last legs and is very tempermental. Not to take anything away from it. Yep variety is the spice of life, and what helps the variety is each console maker attempting to produce the 'must have' product that may drive people to plump for their hardware. The games player can only benefit from this environment.

For me, it was the Fable2 game and the Project gotham racing series that led me to plump for an XBox. The latest game released for the PS3 - little big planet I think it was - seemed appealing but would not have made me go for the PS3.

I could not have afforded an XBox360 when it first came out - and only purchased one recently due to its bargain price. And i'm pleased with it - Sony, Microsoft and nintendo are not producing games consoles for fun - its bizness. The XBox360 has so much appeal it makes me want to play the games I've got for it....my kids get first shout though.


@ D4nM4N - this thread was just a stab at what games console manufacturers are doing well & why - long may they all continue to do so.

The worst thing would be for the choice to be one games console manufacturer or the PC for games. Sure, I used to like playing games on my PC, but I'd much rather be sat in my living room on a comfortable environment playing games than sat at a puta.

@Doiron, thanks for the info on the quality games you've stumbled across on XBox arcade - I'll be sure to try them out, I just need an extra 3 or 4 hours in the day.