Legality of this game name?

I'm just wondering if a game with the title "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or perhaps some offshoot that is similar but not already the title of an existing series, such as just "Three Kingdoms" would be legal.

While I know KOEI has A "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" series, it's also the title of a novel that existed before copyright laws and as such figured it might not be protected, just as Grey Alien was able to make a game titled "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz."

So how far would I have to deviate, if at all, from "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" (would just a subtitle work, i.e. "Romance of the Three Kingdoms: Forever War" be ok?) to reach a legal name?

Thanks.

I think that would be fine, but if your concerned about it don't take legal advice off anyone in a forum, go see lawyers.

You can't copyright a title

Well, I plan on consulting with a laywer in the future if/when the project reaches such a state, but at the moment I am just curious and I'm sure some here, notably GA, have had to look into this before.

Of course the difference here and with GA and the Wizard of Oz is that there was no running game franchise built around the Wizard of Oz, so I'm thinking that there'd be a stronger legal case against a game with "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" in its title in any way, since it will, for the consumers interested in that genre of games, call to mind the series by KOEI.

o.O

Was it chiselled into a bit of stone?

The original Wizard of Oz story is out of Copyright so Grey Alien's version was based on L Frank Baum's original work (which a bit of googling proves to be first published in 1900 - 108 years ago).

He'd be in hot water up to his neck if he'd based it on the 1939 movie adaptation.

Well, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms was written in the 14th or possibly early 15th century (some debate there). So, yeah, it's definitely 'out of copyright.' :p

Well, I've never heard of it. And you did say "before copyright laws [existed]". Copyright laws extend back at least a couple of hundred years.

Even then you'd still have to base it on an original work, as a derived work may still be protected by Copyright.

You can if its a trademark.

The whole title would probably not be a problem since the novel has been written in ancient times, but bear in mind that since KOEI made eleven games with the same title in the past twenty years, if the game gets enough exposure and has any resemblance with KOEI's strategy games I suppose they could sue you.

Besides, due to the huge popularity of the series, anyone searching for your game would end up finding the KOEI series instead.

No, that would be a trademark, not a copyright.

You have nothing to worry about.

Personally, I would probably write to the friendliest seeming person who owns the trademark to ask permission. Could be an automatic "no" just because that person isn't friendly, but having a lawyer say "Okay!" doesn't really protect you from the possibility of them not liking it and making noise.

Doiron makes a valid point about the search engine problem. Time to add a 4th kingdom!

On the flipside, anyone searching for the KOEI games could find my game which would be similar in setting of course, being based on the same era and novel written about it, and somewhat similar in style (strategy game) but still distinct enough I believe so as to be in no way confused with an existing KOEI product. All that being said, I still worry that KOEI could crush me with lawsuits - frivolous or not - if they felt so inclined. :\

They wouldn't have a chance. You can't copyright a title and you can't copyright an idea.

Some companies "try" to intimidate with a cease and desist, but it is usually best to just ignore those. Most of the time if a company is sending a cease and desist it is because they do not have a legal leg to stand on. If they were in the legal right, they would simply sue you.

How about calling it Romance of the Four Kingdoms?

But that's false advertising, because there are only three kingdoms! ;)

menangetoie kingdoms (sp)

ok seriously
as the book is old, as are the works of shakespear and mozart (movies and albums are copyrighted but not the written words and sheet music) then the other guys didnt buy the licence off any estate as no one has the rights to sell, but as you said they made games under that title (board or computer i dont know without looking it up) and admit that when googled yours will come up when people are looking for theirs and vise versa so they might have more of a standing over the name

until "i am legend" came out i dont think any of the movies based on the book used such title, perhaps they had no rights to do so and just loosley based their story on the book with enough leeway to cover their legal rear, that or "i am legend" just didnt sound as good as "the last man on earth" and "the omega man" to cinema goers of the time
infact i picked up a graphic novel (comic book) of i am legend and thought "hey this is the omega man, hold on they are turning this comic into a movie when it is a blatant omega man rip off?!?" then i found out it was an adaptation of the book

if for example i am legend was out of copyright and you wanted to make a game about the last human trying to cure the mutated survivors as well as lethally defend himself from the very people he is trying to cure and the movie came along, im sure they would try and shut you down but *IF* it was an out of copyright story (which it isnt) they couldnt do much to you, even forcing you to change the name.

basically theyve been using the name more than you have, wether thats a legal standing or not, as far as 'fans' of the game/book/whatever are concerned they got there first and if yours isnt as good as they exect it to be perhaps you should run with a lesser known title from the serise, just as family guy used blue harvest, not only as an in joke but also that they couldnt use any of the starwars titles directly

You should be fine with using the name "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", since it is the title of a classic work of Chinese literature that has long since fallen out of copyright.

I wouldn't do it though, because it will seem like you are intentionally trying to deceive your potential customers by "borrowing" the name of another reasonably well known PC game. Shorten it to "Three Kingdoms" or, as you yourself suggested, make it a subtitle - something like "Fall of a Dynasty: Romance of the Three Kingdoms" - to reduce the likelihood of misunderstandings.

I was thinking of going with something shorter as you mentioned JustLuke, and I like the ring of the short and simple "Three Kingdoms." Thanks for commenting everyone.

That would most likely be enough for a lawsuit. This flipside could also look like you are using the same setting and name to drive people from their product to yours. The problem with lawsuits is that, even if the accusing party would most likely lose, a process is still a great burden for an individual. Changing the title would be appropriate in my opinion if you want to avoid any concern.

As an example you can't copyright the word Doom, but I suppose that if you make a sci-fi FPS called Doom you are just asking for trouble.


Well, if with the latest one they changed the title as well, nobody would have ever known it was based on Matheson's novel! A sad adaptation indeed. Anyway, The Omega Man was officially based on I Am Legend since the main character is called Robert Nevill. There was an older movie with Vincent Price too, the most faithful to date albeit still parting ways with the book, which was called The Last Man on Earth.

Well, this is sort of true, but only in the sense that I'd be looking for people who are fans of the lore. That's unescapable though when you are basing your work off of the same source.

dorian>
i thought i had typed both of those titles in, but i cant see them in my post, but aye both were the films i was on about, never read the book and have very little inclination to

the smith alternate ending worked but sucked almost as much as the theatre version

Not quite.

Or, because they don't want to set a precedence, even though they could win. Lawsuits are expensive endeavors, if you want the ruling to come out in your favor.

Doom is a trademark of id software. You are not allowed to make any product at all, that might dilute their trademark.

So in many ways, much like I, Robot. Also starring Will Smith, and also only having the title in common with the book.

If "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is a KOEI Trademark (and 11 games in 20 years would suggest that's indeed the case), you won't be able to get away with it. In fact as a general rule of thumb in these cases, if you're in doubt of whether it's legal, chances are good it isn't. We don't exactly live in a liberal society.