Wanna share success stories? ^_^

Hey everyone!

Okay, let me let you in on a little secret here: wanna know how many games I've sold since I started Gigahertz Games last fall?

1

No, that's not a typo, it's ONE. I wouldn't normally reveal something like this (it doesn't exactly make a great sales pitch, eh?) but in the time I've been in this forum community, I've come to think of you all as friends whose thoughts & opinions I trust & respect.

Anyway, with a sales count like that I figure that must either be doing something wrong, or missing something altogether. Or maybe a bit of both. I'm not complaining here, just stating a fact. So, the best way for me to figure out what I'm missing is to compare my methods to successful ones.

Basically, I'm asking those of you who are doing well in this business how you did it, and what you're doing with it now. It would help me a lot, and I think there may be others viewing this forum with similar questions in their minds. Thanks all!

What's the game? Then we may be able to comment.

I think your first problem is right here when I try to access what I think is your homepage:

Yep, the first task would be to get off Googlepages and onto your own hosting. That action alone should help give you some credibility.

big10p: You mean the game I sold? Pryzms. February 29th, 2008; the infamous "Leap Day."

Winni & Phil Newton: Okay, I'll look into that. My GP site has over 450 hits on its product page since I launched Schizo, but if that error's appearing at all, a change wouldn't hurt. Any suggestions for web hosting sites?

WOAH, you're right; Even I can't view it, and the images have stopped transmitting!!! That does it; I'll have to go elsewhere for hosting.

I think I see the problem.

You have had 472 people visit your web page.

Whereas through paid avdertising with google, I have had over 236,000 visitors to my texture generator website.

I have sold over 600 copies.

If you do the math, that means I sell roughly one copy per 400 visitors.

Of course that takes into account a huge number of visitors I got from a pay per action campaign which could have run god knows where and I only had to pay if the visitors actually generated a sale.

But if I subtract the 248 sales google says it tracked me making (which is surely high because their tracking is screwed up) from the 600 copies I've sold, that gives me around 350 copies sold with the other better targetted campaigns where I pay per click or impression, and from those I had 54,000 page visits, so that comes to around 150 visitors per sale.

Anyway, my point is, your game may be the best game in the world, but if nobody tries the demo, nobody's gonna buy it.

godaddy.com has some cheap rates for hosting & domain names..

At the moment my friend pays a little less than 5$ a month for some hosting (I made a site for him). That includes language support like php.. ect.. though no JS. It has like 300g bandwidth with 10g hosting space. And 5 mysql servers.

Then the domain name is $10 a YEAR.

Anyways, its a good deal, and so far the customer service is great, no complaints from me.

Something about having a site on google pages screams "unprofessional", no offence.

And I agree with sswift, advertising would help too

Yeah, you've had no traffic and your website looks unprofessional and your games look like they are free games. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's the truth. So you need to get a decent domain, a great looking website with a proper company logo and remove all the stuff about you being the CEO of a one man band. You could advertise and do marketing but first you need a quality product - so you need to start making some decent games (which should take months if you expect anyone to pay any money for them). Unless you have a small competent team and a half-decent budget, forget making casual games that can compete with the zillions already out there. Possibly investigate making something more unique instead and building up a special customer base. Right now you'd probably make much more money from affiliate sales if you "blinged" up your site and got some traffic to it than from your existing titles. Building up a successful business takes a lot of effort and does not happen overnight.

Thanks for sharing your story and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

P.S. I know you asked for success stories to find out what you were missing, but I felt it was easier to give my opinion on what I could see was already missing.

more info...try reading some developer's blogs (like Cliffski's mumblings) and others (I have one) and see what you can glean from their approach/advice. Perhaps join Indiegamer and read the stuff on there as I found it very useful when starting up. Consider teaming up with someone with publishing/marketing experience in games. Also check out Steve Pavlina's blog, there's tons of useful stuff on there about motivation and positivity etc. It's helped me a lot.

Another thing to try: think up some specific questions about how to grow your business and post them on Indiegamer or email successful developers, you'll be surprised at who will take the time to answer and help you out.

Also, if you have alot of smaller games, you could bundle them together... IE. if they pay that __ price they get access to a large download menu of your creations.

Just another idea.

~"Success" story:~

I started coding when I was 13... I'm 15 1/2 now. I can code in 9 languages, including C++, java, PHP ect.. I enjoy messing with the inners of computers and I consider myself very technically inclined for my age.

I personaly don't have a >success< story. I'm still young, I've probably made over 25 *complete* games, though most were finished in less than a couple weeks time. One thing I fail at is keeping inspiration and detication on large projects. I'm hoping I can get into something I really like, that would keep me thrilled for a while, producing a great game. Another idea is to team up with someone my age so that we can both keep eachother going on a larger project.

One thing thats nice is that you can crank out games quickly because you have existing source code from your previous games. Some things are a pain to code, but are quite modular, like my particle system, menu system, highscore system, ect.


Anyways, hopefuly my rambing helps :)

That's why;


Just kidding, but seriously, your website and game graphics are not attractive nor look professional. You don't have a "real" domain name. You don't do any advertisement at all.

You should seriously consider hiring a pro 2D artist for your games.

You need some funds for a website, a host/domain, an artist to help with the graphics, marketing etc.

Yep, get your own hosting. You can't really be taken seriously if you don't have your own domain and host (Shared or dedicated, not from home on apache)

My first host was http://canaca.com , but paying prices like that, don't expect good support.

Also, don't make the same mistake I did when I got my first domain(s) and make your own imageshack to over a million images and wonder why your host is locking your account constantly.

Most hosts allow 100 simultaneous connections to a site at the same time (downloading. Once they have finished downloading a page/file, they disconnect, so you can have 1000 users at the same time looking at your site and randomly browsing without issue).

If you want more then that, look at dedicated/virtually dedicated servers (100$+/month usually).

ps. I'm using GoDaddy for dedicated servers, and webhosting, and while the support there, like ANY OTHER HOST is pretty useless (although down to earth), you get your moneys worth, and then some. Still look around though.

Don't use godaddy, they pull stupid crap like registering domain names you check on their site so that you can't register them somewhere else.

I use PowWeb. It's fairly cheap, and I haven't had any problems so far. Also you can split your space into multiple domains.

@Yahfree: I used to code a million and one things when I was your age but nothing big, I also had lots of unfinished stuff (most stuff actually). Then later I got a job making business software and that forced me to finish stuff. Now finishing big stuff is easy (well sorta). I think at your age it's GOOD to experiment and make lots of things and you can knuckle down later on.

My advice on hosting is use a different company to register and control your domains (preferably one which lets you configure DNS at a base level, such as http://www.123-reg.co.uk/) than the company which provides hosting.

Then, if your hosting company disappears or goes down for any reason, you can log in to your registration company and point the domain(s) to an alternative host. Converseley, if your registration company is having issues, it won't affect your website. You also get to have email handled by a different company than that which provides hosting (I use Google Apps, including Gmail for my domains now).

I pay £2.99 for a hosting package from PAC Webhosts. Unlimited domains, subdomains and a fair number of MySQL databases. Speeds are good too. There are any number of hosting companies, shop around.

just sign up with www.servage.net they are the best and only cost 6€uro per month which is not alot if you are in bussins of making money: )

Some quick comments (I cannot anymore access to your site because "exceeded bandwith error"):

- (+1) on having your own domain name... and please ... extend your bandwidth.
- remove the first "ENTER" page: no need for it. Don't use a http redirection (google will penalize your page rank for that) but do a proper 301 redirection or, better, move your entire site to the root of your domain.
- Use tools like http://www.websitegrader.com to enhance your SEO.
- Put the price on the page of each games: I had to click on "buy now" button to know the price.
- Your website looks unprofessional (content and design): if you are not able to create your own custom design you can use a standard php portal like joomla, php nuke or drupal and choose the template you like the most.. it willbe less original but more professional.
- Paypal is ok, but if you use a more "professional" E-Commerce company like Plimus,Share-it or e-junky it will be better.
- Add more appealing screenshots of your games: Eye candy sells.
- Enhance your games: your games are Ok for an initial release, but keep working on it according to the feedback you have. It is a story of perseverance.
- Read the following article: Shareware Amateurs vs. Shareware Professionals ( http://www.gamedev.net/reference/business/features/shareprof/ )
- Don'use Zip. Put your games in a standard windows installer.
- Remove your Paypal account explanation on product page: put two buy buttons for your games "Buy using Credit Card" and "Buy using Paypal"
- Put your products on your main page, it is more important than a 2 month old news and an crappy old style page counter
- Use Google Analytics to track your traffic instead of your counter.
- About pages: add some credibility into it: tell us where you are based, who you are, ...
- Link page: well, I'm not sure it is a good idea to put link for others free games if you want to sell yours. You have to decide if your website is a commercial website or a personnal webiste with links to your friends.
- About the review link on your Contact Us page: don't do it that way, but write something like: "You want to review our game? Drop us an email at mail@... and we will be happy to provide you a free licence key for the review".

Your website and games are a good start, but you need to put much more work on it.

good luck! :)

Great tips. I read that Amateur vs Pro article about 4 years ago, it's great. Also look up "Cultivating Burning Desire": http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles/cultivating-burning-desire.htm

@Adam - If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

personally, I prefer PayPal. ;)

The others (BMT Micro/Plimus) take Paypal payments I believe. You can always have both :-)

Okay, I'm going to answer in a bottom-to-top page order.

MGE:
I'm 16. Still learning... Heck, still a "n00b" at business. ^_^

Alain:
I've wanted to put my games in an installer since day 1, but I haven't been able to find out how. Any leads here?
What's SEO?
Thanks a million for the amateurs vs pros article; I'll read that as soon as I can!!!
Thanks also for the Google Analytics tip; I figured there HAD to be a better way than that counter, never did like it much. =P
As far as site design, I've been planning to upgrade that for a while, but I'll admit I could've done it sooner. Thanks for the prod. (This goes for everyone else who mentioned it.)

sswift: Thanks for the tip, I'll check out PowWebs as soon as I can.

Yahfree: Games bundle... Interesting idea... !

Grey Alien: You weren't harsh, just honest, and I'm glad; I prefer brutal honesty to false praise. You're quite right, too; I realized recently that casual games are such a huge thing right now that mine are just a drop in the ocean, and a small one at that. I mean, I still think they're good games in their own right, but from a business perspective, it's a whole different ball game. It's also funny you should mention that, because my current project is much more large-scale & combines casual & non-casual gaming concepts.
Thanks also for those blog tips; I'll look into it, along with Indiegamer.

Once again, thank you all very much for valuable opinions & advice. I can see now that that single sale is actually right on target; I'd simply underestimated the work-to-sale ratio (drastically.) That single sale is just right according to the amount of work I've put into Ghz so far; in fact, I now feel lucky to even have got that.

SO, on with the show; I've got my work cut out for me, but I always did prefer jumping in the deep end, for better or for worse. ^_^

On a slightly different note, I've recently been considering moving away from the Indie path & approaching a publisher (though not necessarily with the games I have currently.) Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences to share about that?

I'd flush my own head down the toilet before I went down that particular avenue again.

>I've wanted to put my games in an installer since day 1, but I haven't been able to find out how. Any leads here?

Innosetup is free, and from what I read good, no personal experience here though:

http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php

Yeah I've used Innosetup before. Its good but 'fiddly' as its all scripted.

You can try googling for ISTool which is basically a front-end GUI for Innosetup to take the pain out of it.

Adam - Probably the best advice anyone worth their salt can give you is the following:

You're 16....16!!! Keep coding your arse off, honing your skills, get some college education (don't believe anyone if they say you don't need it), and within 10 years you'll have your own success stories to tell. Seriusly, forget the website, forget about trying to make money. Now's the time to learn how to properly code a game, learn 2d / 3d math, etc, etc. Don't be tantalized by the few indie success stories, alot of those guys have been doing it for decades. ;)

Erm, you don't need a college education. Unless you want to avoid employment by clinging onto the education system like a limpet for as long as possible.

I never did college. I did a lot of programming in AMOS/AMOSPro back in the early 90s which resulted in a published game, then loads of shareware/licenceware stuff and then a job as a games tester with Gremlin Interactive, then a motion capture technician with the same company until they got taken over by Infogrames and made everybody redundant in 2001.

Meanwhile I continued writing games and discovered Blitz was coming out for PC, bought it and wrote Hole in One and eventually 12 commercial games in Blitz between 2001-2006. Currently doing a half-arsed job of writing indie games. After over 22 years of faffing about I'm never really sure if my heart's in it any more, but for some reason I keep plodding onwards.

Yeah, i'd def agree. I don't think you need a college education either. It probably wouldn't hinder you, and may give you a better start to planning out a game in theory.

As for actual coding... I don't think so personally. If you've been coding since you were 5, then by the time you get to college, you've probably learned a good thing or too. Depends on your personality though. If your stubborna nd not willing to learn new ways of doing things, then you'll no doubt fail.

However, no offence intended either, but the game where you control 4 different games needed alot of work before you should try and sell it. I don't have much experience in marketing, but i know that if you try and sell a product in need of improving, then it will reflect badly on your business :o)

Do you have a link to your other game?

Alot of guys on here with good experience in marketing games. Gab and Grey Alien come to mind, especially the latter. And good luck man. I wish i had the drive to make more money out of my stuff.

Ross = Lazy

I have no success stories, but I have many failure stories. This is what I've learned.

I used to stress a lot about making big sellers and big games, but I've all but abandoned my largest project. I mainly use it now as a learning tool, from which I take the techniques I learned and implement and test them in smaller games.

Perhaps my turning point came when I showed my friends a game I made called "slippery slope" something I coded in a half an hour. This simple game was a blast to play; we would play it period after period at school (senior year was pretty laid back :). And we still have a laugh here and there because it is so simple yet fun! Its on my website if you want to see it.

What I took from this observation is that I find it much more rewarding coding things that I can physically see people enjoying; coding for my friends and classmates, family, or community members here as opposed to a large market of faces you'll never see enjoy it because you're working too hard to market it.

I love programming, and I found out I'm not in it to make money. Its about finding why you're coding. Is it to make a living, a personal hobby, or something totally different?

I write this because I feel like you're trying to take something you love and putting limitations and burdens on it by trying to make sales so early in your career. Just relax and code something you'll enjoy.

So here's where I am now; I keep my website and its crappy design because its fun. I keep making games with because its fun. I'm abandoning projects and about to start Dungeons of Fear 2; because its fun. And in a week I head off to college to expand my knowledge more. MGE gave fantastic advice, which I found out the hard way. But now I'm a happy programmer.

I hope this helps and made sense. In conclusion; have fun without burdens. Who knows, something wonderful may come out of it.

Best of luck Adam.

@Adam, well as you are only 16, and I'm not wanting to patronise here, just keep on coding and learning new skills and having fun and perhaps forget making money until you've finished your education (or started higher education and the money can be made in your spare time). Keep reading up about marketing and polishing and success stories etc so that you can put it all into action when you either a) start your own business or b) go to work for someone else and want to do a good job. You've got plenty of time ahead of you. Good luck dude!

SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization: It is the way you choose your keywords, meta data and everything else to be on the top of the google pages (well, at least on the first few pages) for your choosed keywords.

+1 For Inno Setup: I used it since years and it is rock solid.

Success? Money? A game programmer craves not these things.

I use inno setup too.

Says who? Success normally, but not always, generates money. Money is handy to pay for your house and bills and kids, and if there's any left after that lot, maybe you can get something nice, go on holiday or buy a present for someone. I'm a game programmer full-time so I need money from that job. I wouldn't say I "crave" money but it is certainly important and so I also design my games to be as much fun and addictive as possible so that I can deliver VALUE to customers, because people pay for value.

I was being sarcastic, hence the Star Wars reference.

Personnally I'm in a situation that I've been working for a business software company for seven years now and thinking if there's a way for me to being happier. Possibly starting up my own company to develop games. In my current job I can't put all my skills and talents to use, but starting off on my own would require me to get skills I don't have. At all. The jump feels too quite big to take and I've never taken huge risks in my life.

The safe bet is to continue with my current life and keep coding games as a hobby. Maybe try selling at some point. When I've got the courage, loose the day job and switch gears. But how much courage is needed to take a shot at an industry know to be very cruel? In my case, a lot.

Ah got it, my bad for falling for it ;-)

Btw, I totally did what you are considering. I worked for business software firm for 9 years (ended up as the manager). Then I gave it all up to make games because I knew I'd enjoy it more (and I do). My finances rapidly went downhill until my new skills finally began to pay off. Lots of skills are transferable from your current job anyway, like programming, self-organisation, drive etc. Don't be kicking yourself in 10 years for not trying. You can always try and if it fails, never mind, go back to business software, at least you'll have tried.

9 years on the software business too.

I'm trying to start my own company since 6 month... a long way to go, but it is really interesting and fun to handle all the aspect of a product (code, marketing, website and everything else).

Yeah, it's good to know how all that works, then once you get an idea, begin to outsource it to experts so you can focus on your strengths, like game design.

Adam - Definitely go get the college education. These days, a Bachelor's is kind of like what a high school diploma was years ago. If you decide that being a game programmer isn't all it's cracked up to be, and want to move into the business world, you're going to need it.

Plus, it'll give you ~4 years with minimal responsibility and maximum free time, and a chance to be surrounded by (potentially) creative people. You can work on your games, have fun, and meet people that might be able to help you along the way. Best of all, you might even learn something.

You might not have needed one when you started, or even when I started. But a college education (or even better a graduate degree) is a huge short-cut, compared to what you're going to need to go through experience wise without one. Trust me on this one. A degree opens a lot more doors than experience in the same time scale.

Listen to Flameduck and others on this one..

Often, the employer doesn't even look at the applications from people without a higher education.. even if you know you're better than half of the "educated" people..

Let's put it this way - I'm starting to think that even my Bachelor's is inadequate for the field I'm in. I'm strongly considering getting a Master's soon, though it's tough because I really didn't enjoy college. I did well grades-wise, but really hate sitting in a classroom, particularly when it's a class I'm not interested in. But, I'll probably do it anyway because it's the smart thing to do. Plus expanding your mind is always a good thing.

Oh, I definitely plan to hit college; whether I "need" the degree or not, I've heard so many good things about the overall college experience that I'm determined to go for it.

Thanks for the Inno Setup tip; this might solve my installer problem. Also, I think I'll check out that Binary Joy link in Grey Alien's sig; it might prove useful when I launch my next game.

As far as right now goes (I think this is mainly for Sauer,) I am actually doing this all for fun. See, I'm an ambitious, competetive, egotistical semi-perfectionist; this basically translates to me absolutely loving a seemingly impossible challenge. (It can also unfortunately make me arrogant; I've learned a lot of humility on this site. =P ) This whole affair, with all its trials & tribulations, is actually fun to me; I'm one of those who, even if I fail, will just say, "Wow, what a ride!"

With regards to the whole money-making thing, that's much less of a motivation than it originally was; when I first started this whole idea, I was only 14, and even more uninformed than I am now (really!) I still see this as a possible opportunity for money, and obviously I'm going to try to make what I can out of it, but mainly this is all a kind of hands-on "field trip" learning experience for me. Heck, I'd get more money working weekends at Papa Gino's than I'm making right now! XD

Oh, by the way, Mortiis:



I think I see your point... That doesn't exactly scream "reliable." XP

I mean your customers don't know who WERDNA is :D it's not even a real name.

You can read my blog Sell More Games for more tips and success / failure stories.

http://www.anawiki.com/sellmoregames/

cheers
Roman

Yeah nice topic to promote our blogs :)

HERE is mine, I'm not updating it right now and I won't 'til I buy a proper host and domain name which will happen in a month I hope. There is already some nice articles you can read though.

Hi Mortiis,

I just found that all the sections (eg. articles, tutorials, etc.) are
still refered to "indiediary.info" .

Yep, sorry but I won't be able to edit the blog as I said, until I move it to wordpress, a new host and a new domain. There is no point to do so as I will change them all again once I install the wordpress.

Hahah. "Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill.

(@Mortiis: I knew that and am looking forward to wordpress version.
Just want to make sure I click the correct link :D)

WTF?!

I could make a casual game all by myself that would CRUSH most of them out there. I'm not lying, just ask me.

Maybe you should show us then, instead of us having to ask around?

Chroma ihre pappiere bitte!

Why not? it'd just take longer by your self.

If you could keep up the dedication.

Sure. Here's the deal though; much like developing the next cool 3D engine, keeping up with (never mind keeping ahead of) the competition, requires a little more than simple dedication.

While I have no doubt Chroma could, given enough time, create something better than practically any (casual) game available today, I find it questionable that by the time he's finished with it, it'll still be significantly ahead of the curve, if at all.

Making casual games today is big business, and if you're not in the big business mindset, you're not going to make it.

@Adam,

Well done for having such a good attitude! As Grey says, keep on learning and developing your skills, improve yourself and learn from things you did right as well as wrong.

All the best

IPete2.

PS check out my website to see what else you can do with your skills.

You should do it then because you would make over $1,000,000 and never have to work again - give up your day job and do it now if you are so confident. The best games make that much money easily, I know.

I just signed a deal for Tommy Tronic worth over 1 million pounds. Dedication pays off big time. And if I ever get 1 million pounds I intend to honour that contract I just signed with myself this morning.

Otherwise, you can always send yourself to collections.

Heh, I really wonder how many here who actually make money through sales of software/subscriptions, actually claim that income.

@Retimer: do you mean claim for taxes? I do :)

Yeah I declare every penny as the last thing I want is to be busted for tax evasion.

I would imagine all of them except the really stupid ones. Your money is coming from big legitimate companies. They're surefire going to declare you on their records. How difficult you think it will be to spot when your income doesn't match?

Companies keeping records is not how the IRS would get you. I mean think about it. If they want to investigate YOU, they're not going to look at the records of random corporations until they find records of sales to you. And corporations don't send records of purchases to the IRS just for the heck of it.

But what they WILL find is any visa or checking transactions you've made that are tied to your bank account. Which will be from pretty much anyone you sell to online.

That's why they cracked down on e-gold actually. Because people were able to use that to make purchases like cash, so there wouldn't be any records for the tax-man to find. Incidentally, you can't sell gold for cash either. Well, not to a gold dealer anyway. There are federal laws about that which were enacted after 9/11.

So yeah, I claim my income. But you can be sure I deduct every penny I can due to expenses. Half my income from my sales goes towards advertising after all.

You're the one that hasn't thought about it. They wouldn't *be* investigating you, they would be investigating the company. These portals are going to have a long list of people, many of them getting large sums of money. None of that money will be taxable as far as the company is concerned, and the IRS will want to prove that the outgoings are legitimate. In order to prove that all their deductions are legitimate, they would have to confirm that the people they claim to have sent money to really received that money. When they spot that you didn't receive it, they're going to query that with the company, believing that they may have been dishonest. The company offers the paperwork proving they're honest, and now the IRS has a cast iron case that you were dishonest. At this point - what? - You think they're just going to throw that information away because they weren't technically investigating you? Sure they are.

Oh I thought about that all right... but it doesn't make any sense.

A portal would be dealing with thousands of businesses, and the IRS isn't going to contact every one of them to determine if they were paid.

And even if they DID, they would not then take that information and cross reference it with every company that portal dealt with to then determine if THOSE companies were paying all the taxes they owed.



That's exactly what they'd do. They're not going to enter all that data into their database. You're giving them too much credit, and being too paranoid.

If the IRS did that sort of thing they'd catch a lot more tax cheats than they do. Pretty much the only way to get caught is to either be incredibly stupid and obvious about it, or incredibly unlucky.

Basically the IRS (or UK equivalent) could come up with some really nifty database and code to compare accounts of different companies and look for holes, then a human could investigate and prosecute. As it is, all that really happens is your company MIGHT be subject to a random "audit" and if that happens they'll go over everything with a fine toothed comb and then if you were not legit, you'd be in trouble. So it's just worth being above board for this "random chance" reason anyway. Plus tax evasion is kinda stealing, you are not giving back to society so some kid might die in hospital due to lack of funds or some old person might freeze to death due to not enough pension etc.

I wouldn't worry - the traitors in government will be losing all company IRS data any moment now...it's been 5 minutes since the last..ahem..'lapse'.

And now, so does everyone else. Even if they only made a dime on every copy sold, yeah well just do the math.

They don't have to. That's your responsibility (or your accountants). On my last tax return there was a $20 discrepancy, which I had accidentally claimed twice. Yes they caught it, and yes they sent me a nice letter politely asking my to pay up. Which I did.

Surely YOU don't actually make mistakes? ;o)

Well I wouldn't have expected anyone who doesn't claim to fess up haha. I'm sure there's plenty here that don't understand that they need to, so don't.

Too often people post copyright media, or link to it, without knowing even the slightest bit about the legal issues involved, let alone with something more complex as taxes.



;-)

Nothing to do with gas prices doubling in the last five years, then?

A couple of years ago, HM Revenue & Customs (or the Inland Revenue as it was at the time) sent me a tax bill for £0.00. So that's what I paid. If they screw up in my favour I'm not going to rock the boat.

Trouble was, a few months later they realised they'd made a mistake and sent me a correct bill for £460. PLUS, they'd added on interest for six months because I hadn't paid it sooner!

Fortunately I'd laid money away to cover the tax bill, like I always do. Its less painful that way. I managed to wriggle out of paying the interest on the grounds that I had in my hands, in black and white, "Amount you must now pay: £0.00".

They do make mistakes, but when the general public screws up they're a hell of a lot quicker to spot it.

So if you over-paid them, you should be able to charge them interest for the time it takes for them to pay you back =P

Actually, that's the way it works here. The best most risk free interest you can get, is paying too much on your taxes. As good as money in the bank.