First game you'll make with Max3D?

So what's the first project you'll start up when Max3D is released? I'm definitely going to port my flight sim over to it. Hopefully will only take a couple days. I freakin' CAN'T wait!!!! :)

When I will buy my new Porsche, I really don't know what will be the first gas station.
For the moment I am saving money in order to buy it first.

Pong 3D Max?
Asteriods 3D Max?

A bad one i suspect.

First thing im going to do is play with the samples and make something really crap out of those.

Is it due out or something?

its coming out as an easter egg on the duke nukem forever dvd ;)

My first project won't be a game but a tech demo of some kind, using everything Max3D provides. Like those engine tech demos where you walk around and see stuff in seperate rooms.

..im going to port current game im working on(recently post new screenshots) and see how is it going to be for MAC with Max3D..if not or with problem, I will use Unity to finish it for MAC..but for win, for sure will be max3D, if came on time and if structure wise, doesnt require huge changes (lightmaps, B3D file , etc..)

I'll probably just use the 3D as part of 2D games for special effects.

Nuke Dukem Forever

which will probably be retro :)

hehe Chroma, I think you lost your marbles....

Depends largely on three factors.

1) What is it capable of?
2) Which non-BlitzMAX languages does it work well with?
3) Can I get out of my "we own all your immaterial rights" clause with my current employer.

Lets face it flameduck, you and your 15 co-developers won't have time since you are busy developing all those bussiness applications that pay you your good salary :P so I predict you will just troll the forums as usual :P

You shouldn't have signed that. I always get people to modify that so it at least says they only own stuff solely related to their business, anything different (like a game) is my own IP. If they want you enough, they'll modify the contract.

At least they didn't take your soul.

They wont here.... Programmers and IT people are a dime a dozen... They'd just as well go to the next guy waiting for a job than modify a standard form...

Why wait for BlitzMax3D?

How about a BlitzMax game with LeadWerks Engine?

puki is alive.....

offtopic (sorry)

i'm at a loss here.
puki has always been a diehard advocate for blitz3d. he mysteriously vanishes off the forums for what 1 - 2 months, just as mysteriously reapears. now seems to be a diehard advocate of the leadwerks engine.

who are you and what did you do with puki?

as far as blitzmax3d goes, i'm not gonna jump on the band wagon right away like i've done with all the other blitz products. it's not that i don't want it, but not only can i not afford to buy pocket lint right now i also want to wait and see how other users take to it.

also as puki said the leadwerks engine is a very viable option depending on what type of users you want to cater to, but thats best left for one of the leadwerks engine topics.

Now that I've moved to Copenhagen, and no longer have a 4 hour commute every day, I should have some spare time for playing around. However, unless I can get out of my current contract, there isn't much incentive.

Nah. All key personnel are required to sign a contract with a clause like that. But the lawyers are working on it, so we'll see how it goes...

I'd gladly trade. My soul probably isn't worth much anyhow.

Thankfully, here good programmers and IT people are in short supply, so with any luck... But I'd hazard a guess that Max3D is at best 2 years away, so it's hardly a pressing concern.

Hmm. Less than 5 months till Christmas ;-)

I don't think I'll be using Max3D for anything. Will be using my own engine.

I'll first make a backup by burning a downloaded copy onto a DVD (or CD). Then I'll create a nice 3D carton box and put the DVD into it. And then I'll just sit down and watch the box for a while... :-)

Barney

Flameduck I also work as a consult, maybe you have heard of HiQ, we have officec in Denmark as well, anyways what you are talking about is something that we all write under but there is no f***ing way that my company would care or feel like suing me if I produced game on my free time and decided to publish it and make some money of it. I dont think they would even notice nor care about that. It's a stupid contract but really they can't have what I produce in my free time.

You can allways if you are afriad of having popular game that will sell millions release it under different name, they will never care about it to go after you, anyways chances are small you pulling of big selling title so there is nothing to worry about :P

Edit:
Sorry GFK, corrected it ;)

maximo: you shouldn't swear. it makes baby jesus cry. it also makes skidracer get out his beating stick.

I won't be doing anything in Max3D because if I ever make a game it will be in 2D.

Nice theory, but it is just a theory. Courts usually side with the terms of the contract.

You really belive your company would lose face in papers and media going after your game? that would do them more harm then anything and loss of clients, flameduck is just too paranoid

You need to hire a new paralegal. The one you have now evidently can't research case law properly.

My understanding is you need to buy Ultimate Unwrap to get anywhere with Leadwerks engine??

It all depends on what features Max3D will have. I've been bugging 3D engine devs to put CSG in their engines, and I need stencil shadows too. We'll see then, but I'd like to bring Grid World to a newer platform than Blitz3D. Max3D might be what I need...

You should probably get an old 3D engine then, because stencil shadows are yesterday's tech.

Sounds like you're in India...




And? Is that a problem?

I am amazed so many think Max3D will actually appear. It is my understanding this has been "coming" for many years?

Am I the only one thinking...

"De ja vous?"

Not any more. :)

Yep - and a lot of Blitz3D users have it - coz it is a useful app for 3D game development.

EDIT:
It is not vital to have UU for Leadwerks Engine.

What should be today's tech for shadowing? I'm just not up to date on this. Shadowing using HLSL? Link?

@puki: You don't necessarily need to buy Ultimate Unwrap, as Leadwerks Engine comes also with a b3d2gmf.exe converter. Max can export to B3D format, as well as 3D World Studio and Maplet.

Ultima X ;O)

Most modern engines will use shadowmapping. HLSL if it's DX9, yes, or GLSL or CG if it's OpenGL.

There are lots of variations and flavours. Various ways of filtering the results to get smooth shadows, various ways of using multiple maps more effectively.

The very basics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mapping

A tutorial on implementing plain shadowmapping.

http://www.riemers.net/eng/Tutorials/DirectX/Csharp/series3.php

I'll not use Max3D. GLBasic does everything from shaders to Newton support and compiles to Mac OS X, Linux, GP2X and soon the Pandora from Windows.

but GLBasic cant do lightmapping...right??

Well, it can. Just like any other engine that can do plain ol' multitexturing.

Can GLBasic use any resolution and color mode?

I'm going to make an MMORPG, anyone want to join my team :P

Screw your MMORPG, I'm going to make a MMMMMORPG!!!! Join my TEAM!!!!!
GO TEAM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMORPG! (oops, one too many M's, I think I violated someone elses copyright already)

Anybody planning on adding any.... you know... gameplay? Or are we just working on the assumption that we can hide the lack of the aforementioned behind endless overuse of shaders and shadows?

Some people have very odd criteria when choosing a 'game engine'. A dog turd garnished with parsley is still a dog turd.

BMAX already does that but the projection matrix is set to orthographic so everything appears to have no depth (and flat). When I made iRoids and GEOM in Blitz3D you had to frig it to make it look flat - oh the irony.

"MARK SIBLY FOREVER" (Revenge of customers)

Yeah well, the pattern is still there..

Looking back on the worklogs... Mark started a roll back in May doing a worklog almost every week up until middle of June. 2 months past and we're back to the old pattern.

For those willing to hold yer breath, your in for a long winter.....

@MGE: why wouldn't it be able to do? You should really download the demo. It's 100% working. Just today was another update that added OBJ support for the converter tool. Just click the link in my sig.

I have a hard time believing that this clause includes things that you produce outside work, in your own time, using your own equipment. Why? If you wrote a novel, would your employer also own all rights for it? If you painted a picture, would your employer own it? The music you make with your own band? The pictures you shot during your last vacation? I don't think so.

Your analogy doesn't work. If you're hired as a programmer, the music you make and the novel you write doesn't have any bearing on your work. But when a company is paying you to program - develop your skills, learn from your workmates, heck, learn simply from seeing how the game(s) is/are developed - the work you do in your own time has a lot of bearing on your job.

Essentially they would be paying you, and giving you skills, and you're using them both to further your own ends, but with no regard to them. That's why these clauses are added, because they don't want you working on Quake 7 and then going off in your own spare time and using those skills to develop a rival game. They can prevent certain information being used with an NDA, but they can't NDA everything you ever learn in the process of making a game. You're going to be paid to learn and develop new technologies for their games, and they don't want you to go and develop almost the exact same technologies for your own games ( or indeed a rival's games ) in your own time.

It's not normally intended to be slavery. They just want to make sure that you're not taking the mick. That's why it's good to clear it with your employer. As long as it's not directly competitive and doesn't show undue influence by what you've been working on, they'll give you the ok, and you're good to go.

The following requirements will make me buy Max3D

1. GOOD DOCUMENTATION
2. Once I buy it I get all future updates for free (assumed, especially coming from BRL)
3. Simple, straightforward samples and internal structure
4. Extend-able - like Max2D - and full source code (same license as all BRL BlitzMax modules)
5. Support for languages like C#, C++, VB/VB.NET and Python (as a shared library, we should still be able to compile Max3D from BlitzMax into a shared library)
6. OpenGL AND Direct3D support seamlessly (actually don't care so much for Direct3D, but its nice to have as an option)
7. And plenty of worklog feedback from Mark

THEN I would probably make a top-down strategy/rpg game (singleplayer).

I am sure it served the purpose. I am sure many who were on the fence about buying BMax bought it due to the renewed promotion and discussion of the nonexistent 3D engine.

Yay, we're back to snide comments about BRL.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, rather than endlessly bitching about the same old thing time after time and dreaming up ludicrous conspiracy theories, some people should either go away or shut up. You'll give yourself ulcers.

GfK, I was poking fun at the quoted comment. Dry humor doesn't work well online.

People should be happy with what they have and quit holding out expectations for an unreleased product. I have a feeling once Max3D is released people will be complaining that they can't finish their game because Max3D doesn't have support for feature "whatever" that they think will magically enable them to make the next bestseller.

I think GreyAlien, You, Leadwerks and a handfull of others have shown that you can do very well with what you have instead of griping about what you don't have.

Poking fun? I was making a simple observation......

It doesn't? Ah... that explains why 8 out of 10 people here think I'm an arse, then. :)
That's exactly my point. I've been on these forums for eight years now and for as long as I can remember the same old people have been carping on about needing Function X or Feature Y in order to do what they want to do. No matter what they're given, still no 'wonder game' seems to materialise.

And here we are, still bloody moaning. If only they spent a bit of time using the tools they have got rather than trying to blame Blitz/BRL/Microsoft for their lack of motivation, then forum noise would be at a much lower level.

When bmax3d is released i will do a remake of the old game metal gear solid 6.

Well it does.

Yes.
Yes.
If I had a band, yes.
Yes.
Well my lawyer disagrees. It even covers patentable inventions (like say a new type of nutcracker), so it isn't even limited to IT stuff.

Well that's where we are now. They've indicated that it wasn't their intention for the clause to be so draconian, I've indicated that unless I get a better deal from them, I'll start looking for a better deal from someone else. Also it's somewhat problematic, according to my lawyer, because it means that if I created something illegal (like say child pornography or racist propaganda) they could be held accountable.

FlameDuck, if this kind of employment contract is legal where you live, then I think you should find yourself a new job and leave the country (not necessarily in that order).

So if you bake a cake at home, the cake belongs to your boss and you are not allowed to eat it. And when you go to the toilet you're not allowed to flush, but instead have to send everything to your boss. It's a strange contract!! (Seriously I hope they fix it.)

On the other hand, I noticed that in my previous contract it said that my employer could demand of me to come to work at any moment and I wouldn't be allowed to refuse. Somehow I didn't see that line when I signed. Luckily, I don't work there anymore.

FlameDuck works for the mafia!!!

how about this... does your employer own and will take responsibility for everything you type in this forum?

in the US such a broad contract would be found unenforceable. In addition, many states here have specific laws against such claims and no contract can overide the law... (you cannot waive your right)

generally, such a contract will only allow the employer to claim right and legally enforce ownership of IP that is produced during work hours or produced with company equipment/IP or relates to their products [or your job]. basically, the company owns all work you create while "within the scope of employment". of course you probably won't convince your employer of this without actually going to court.

If you wrote a novel, would your employer also own all rights for it?
Yes.
If you painted a picture, would your employer own it?
Yes.
The music you make with your own band?
If I had a band, yes.
The pictures you shot during your last vacation?
Yes.
I don't think so.
Well my lawyer disagrees. It even covers patentable inventions (like say a new type of nutcracker), so it isn't even limited to IT stuff.


..you cyborg or somethin??

FlameDuck: Isn't it amazing how many people are openly professing to be so unethical to state they would not abide by a contract they signed?

People thinking you are an arse has its advantages. It saves you money when it comes time to send out Christmas cards and presents. :D

You can almost excuse the youngsters who do it, but there are many who are old enough to know better and they have no excuse.

There are many of us here who remember when all a computer did was boot into whatever version of BASIC was burned into its ROM. You learned to push the language to the extreme. If you were lucky you might be able to get more power and control out of assembly language. There were a few like the TI-99 4/A which had an extended BASIC cartridge that was more powerful or the CoCo2 which had an extended BASIC chip you could stick on the motherboard and solder a jumper. Back then you didn't have updates to the programming language or new updates to the graphical systems to look forward to.

I see screenshots of people using B3D to produce things that look better than the majority of 3D games on the store shelves. Leadwerks has shown that necessity is the mother of invention. He wanted a powerful 3D engine and wrote one with BlitzMax itself, along with building various editors/deigners with BlitzMax.

By the nature of the industry, anything Mark creates will be outdated when it is released. Just as the biggest game manufacturer with a multi-million dollar budget and a team of pros using the best engine on the market, will produce a game that is outdated by the time their game is released a year or more later.

BlitzMax seems pretty darn powerful and stable. The majority of issues reported seem to be with MaxGUI and Seb is working on that. In reality, you could use the third-party GUIs for your game, or access Windows API directly to create the GUI for your editor or app if you do not like MaxGUI.

My wife and I always told our kids, and now our grandkids that the more you pester us about something, the slower we will go in getting it done. If people have been acting like this about Max3D for the eight years GfK has been here, it is no shock Mark takes his time. There is no way I would go out of my way to work my but off or help whiny brats.

You also need to hire a new paralegal who knows how to research case law. Those statements are incorrect for the USA. Although they are too numerous to list, the latest major case in the USA was last month in US District Court. The "damage phase" is currently in process to determine how much damages the plaintiff will receive. The jist is the "designer" in question merely conceived an idea while employed as a designer at the company who is a plaintiff. After leaving that company, the man acted upon that old idea with another company, in clear violation of his previous contract. Depending on the jury's decisions, the damages awarded could approach a billion dollars.

No, not the cake itself, as that's not an immaterial right, but they would own the recipe and design of the cake.

Good question. It gets a bit muddy there, because I don't know if posts on an Internet forum constitutes immaterial rights. I do know that I wouldn't be allowed to submit something to the code archives (public domain) without their permission, or partake in active development of any open source project. Which pretty much kills recreational programming.

That's just the thing. In Denmark the law already provides such provisions, so if that's all they wanted, putting it in the contract would be redundant (and their lawyer would know that). Since they explicitly stated something else, chances are pretty good they would enforce the contract.

I would just tinker with it and see it was worth porting my stuff other but that may just take more time than it's worth. I only really want basic stuff like really fast shadows, fast boned animated meshes etc



im not 1 0f the 8 out of 10, i think you more moody and intelligent but just not so cheerful :-)




Basically they own the idea, concept, design, code etc so if you create the next fuel source give the info to your nearest and dearest and tell them to leave the country, hopefully they'll share the profits :-)

Yes, and turning Bhuddist for a few weeks gets me out of doing it for all the others. :)
It was the same when I worked at Gremlin - my contract said they own anything I create and this was not limited to the stuff I did at work.

I was working on Hole in One at the time and I had to get clearance from them before doing it. I guess they wanted to make sure I hadn't nicked all the stuff out of Actua Golf.

flameduck I would like to have some of what you are smoking!

The thouths you are thinking right now are not your own, they belong to your employer. It's not strange that documentary I watched on tv said Danish are the worlds happiest people, you are all cyborgs :P

A little scenario playing out:

chief: How are you?
fd: Yes!

chief: Would you mind if I took all your money?
fd: No sir, there is a clause in a paper we signed that allows you to do so, please go ahead.

chief: Do you mind if I punch you in the abdomen, I feel like punching someone.
fd: No, go ahead sir, there is clause covering that as well.

fd thinking to him self:
I like these clauses, everything is neat and specified, I dont have to worry about thing.

chief: dm I want you to jump from that brige, it's not in the papers but if I pay you extra, will you do it?

dm:
yes chief!

dm happiliy lived ever after.

note: All characters in this story are pure imagination and are not based of real life characters!

:P

FlameDuck is correct, I work in 3rd Line in development, and anything I write goes over to them. However since being in this job for some time, I have had a meeting, and they have agreed that if I wrote a game, it would be my right, but I cannot write any application, only games.

How about this,

you write your game, dont tell them about it, they find about it but you tell them that you didn't write your game your self, you hired a freelancer to write the game and you payed him. Does your employe now have right to take that as well?

I mean the question of this topic was simple, it was what will you make with max3d, what are your dreams? Question was not oh does your employe have right to the stuff you create in your free time, will your real work and papers you signed prevent you from prototyping and playing with game ideas and dreaming while u sing Max3d.

Probably first 10 games are gonna do will be crap and your owner will not care even if he has rights to them. And so even if you come up with something so original and great that is a bestseller, you realise that if you are on something big as that you are Mozart of games and you are in the wrong company to start with, find another job! ;)

But "Mister Law" FlameDuck oh he is a profesional working on bussines application and has signed contract that prevents him to prototype his game creation dreams

Yeah your work is gonna become bestseller, you have everything to fear from your employee, puuhleeze, just shutup and work on your own stuff, nobody can take that away from you the prototypes you make and not tell anyone about it. No matter what shit you signed up, your free time is your free time, and if they want to take on you, just say you paied some guys in india to code it for you ;)

Baah Now Flame Duck answer the original question that was asked :p or will answering that also go against the contract of your emploey since you will be giving away HIS game idea???

And to answer the question of the topic, I have no idea what I will make but it will be fun to play around and see where the creative process takes me, simple as that :)

Flameduck;
Wouldn't the clause break if you owned your own company, as it would make the code the company's, and not specified to you as a person?

still; I think the clause you're "in" can't really be enforced legally, and I'm sure it won't hold water in court.

(..and it sounds alot like slavery, to me! hehe)

Its a common thing that "we own you" clause. I have had one of those too working for a team of consultants, but because i have a registered company and told them what i did right from the start i was alright (and 'games stuff' was not a part of what they do anyway). If I didn't i might be in the same boat as another person i know working for another similar company. He had to leave over a dispute about a music website he set up in his own time. In the end after a lot of nasty-ness the website was shut down, he blew the code and no-one benefited.

Its quite a standard clause; that if you work for a company then they own ALL your creative output in that particular field (eg. cad drawings, programming etc..) especially if it's in any way "in scope" with their usual business practice.

Pathetic. That explains why nothing super-hardcoreawesome has come around in the last few years.

War Wound 2