Nintendo's adding a gyroscope to the Wiimote.

Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Nintendo's adding a gyroscope to the Wiimote.

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/eMMuRj_N6vntHPDycCJAKWhEO9zBvyPH

What this means is that now it'll be able to detect rotation as well as acceleration. And that means less fidding about trying to get the thing to swing properly when playing a gold or baseball game, and more realistic lightsaber battles.

They haven't officially announced the addon has a gyroscope in it, but that's pretty much the only thing it could be.

i thought it already had a gyroscope for rotation, I could be wrong of course

Nope. Just has an accelerometer which can destect acceleration on 3 axes, and it's offset from the center, so when you turn the remote like in Mario Kart where you have the wheel, it is sensed as an acceleration on one axis.

Also has the IR camera on the front. That can detect a twisting motion in addition to where you're pointing it, if you've got it pointed at the TV.

It can already detect tilt and rotation as well as accelleration.

This thing seems to be about detection actual position in space.

Makes you wonder why there wasn't one in it to begin with, given that most of the speculation of what the Wii's controller would include would be a gyroscope.

I'm a little bit worried that I'll have to purchase three of those in the near future to play the next 'best' games. Hopefully they'll be cheap.

John:
You're wrong.

I just explained how it detects rotation. It detects rotation by interpreting an acceleration as a rotation.

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If you imagine the above is the Wiimote, A is roughly in the location of the accelerometer within it. Because it is where it is, if you turn the remote as if you are steering a car, the accelerometer will register a small upwards acceleration on the Y axis due to centrifugal force, and an acceleration on the X axis due to the rotation.

This is how Mario Kart's steering works.

But it is important to note that the only reason this works is because we are able in this instance, to assume the player is using the remote like a steering wheel. Without that assumption, we have nothing. All we know for sure is that the remote experienced an acceleration on the X and Y axis, which could just as easily have been caused by moving the remote diagonally, without rotating it.

That means that even for detectiong movement in space, the WiiMote fails, because once again, you can assume the player is moving the remote and that is what is causing the accelerations, but they could just as easily be rotating it to cause those accelerations.

In order to truly track the remote's movements through space, you need to detect not only acceleration on 3 axes, but rotation as well. And that's where the gyroscope comes in.

Once you have the gyroscope, you not only know exactly how the wiimote is rotated at any point in time, but you can also subtract the accelerations caused by the changes in rotation from the accelerations being measured, and voila, rotation no longer messes up your ability to roughly measure the remote's changes in position in space.

If you still don't believe me, check out this wiki page on the data you can pull from the remote:

http://www.wiili.org/Wiimote

The only stuff available is what you get from the accelerometer and the infrared camera. There is no tilt detection, unless you count that which you can do with the camera when pointing it at the sensor bar.

I'm not wrong. It has tilt sensors AND accelerometers. Or rather, the latter can sense tilt without movement.


Dynamics
Since all known Wiimotes are in use near the surface of the Earth, there is a constant background force due to gravity, even when the player is not accelerating the remote. (Without the extra knowledge that we are on the Earth, this force would be indistinguishable from player-induced acceleration. A nice reminder of general relativity.) We will assume that all axes of rotation are close enough to the motion sensor that a rotation does not linearly accelerate the sensor. (i.e. there is no lever arm)

The acceleration <math>a(t)</math> measured by the sensor (not the true acceleration of the remote) is then:

<math>a(t) = R(t)(g\hat{z} + a_r(t))</math>
<math>\dot{a}(t) = \dot{R}(t)(g\hat{z} + a_r(t)) + R(t)\dot{a}_r(t)</math>

where <math>R\,\!</math> is the rotation matrix which transforms from the "living room frame" to the local frame of the remote, and <math>a_r\,\!</math> is the actual acceleration of the remote in the "living room frame". The rotation matrix is parameterized by 3 Euler angles, and the remote's linear acceleration has 3 components as well. With 6 dynamical variables, but only 3 observables, our system is underdetermined! However, we can extract some information if we make simplifying assumptions.

Pure Rotation
If we assume the remote experiences no acceleration (most likely at rest in normal usage conditions), then the motion sensor directly tells us which way is "up". From this we can derive two of the Euler angles of the controller, but not the angle of rotation around the z-axis in the living room frame (corresponding to "yaw" in the diagram when the controller is level). This lack of knowledge is one of the reasons it is difficult to control an on-screen pointer with just 3 accelerometers. The most natural motion for a user to indicate pointer movement horizontally is (roughly) to pivot the controller around the z-axis.

However, two angles are sufficient controls for many uses. The "up" vector that the sensor reports can be used directly, or decomposed into angles: <math> Put formula here </math>



In your explanation there would be no tilt sensed when the controller is at rest and games like Kororinpa and Monkey ball wouldn't work if you held the controller off-centre a bit (making the acceleromoters central).

That said, separating the two functions would probably be massively useful for the reasons you give. I'm not sure it would quite give you the 1:1 movement they are claiming though.


I'm not wrong. It has tilt sensors AND accelerometers. Or rather, the latter can sense tilt without movement.




Look, you can mince words all you want, but the fact is, you said it could detect tilt, rotation, and acceleration. It cannot. It can only detect acceleration. The others can be inferred from the data, but it doesn't have any hardware specificly for detecting those things, and using the accelerometer to do it has major limitations.

From the page you quoted:


Tilt Position Sensing

* If the remote is not accelerating, the tilt of the remote can be calculated directly using the force of gravity

* If the remote is accelerating, you need to double integrate the acceleration readings to get the change in tilt relative to the last known value.

The main problem with this technique is error accumulation in our estimate of "up." Since it is unlikely the user can keep the controller in constant linear motion without injuring themselves, the TV, or their opponent, we can look for times when the total reported force is close to g = 1.0 to recenter <math>R(t=0)\,\!</math>. You have to be careful when doing this because it is possible and probably common for the Wiimote to report an acceleration close to g = 1.0 while it is accelerating. When this happens your acceleration vector does not actually point "up" and you will recenter to an incorrect R. This can happen anytime you are accelerating both downward and in the horizontal plane.



So yeah... Contrary to what I said, you CAN sense rotation and tilt at the same time with the accelerometer thanks to gravity. I knew about the affect of gravity on the accelerometer, but I didn't think you could do anything with it when the controller was being waved around with all the noise.

However, doing so is far from perfect and is subject to a whole lot of drift. Hence the need for adding the gyro so you can detect tilt and rotation properly.



In your explanation there would be no tilt sensed when the controller is at rest and games like Kororinpa and Monkey ball wouldn't work if you held the controller off-centre a bit (making the acceleromoters central).




I admit... I made a mistake there. I mentioned centrifugal force in my explanation above, but then I promptly forgot it.

So yeah, even if you're holding the accelerometer in your hand, when you twist it you still get that force on two axes... and with that you can calculate rotation. To a point.


And yes, I too doubt that their changes will result in true 1:1 motion. There's still the problem of the accelerometers getting maxxed out when you flick the remote too quickly. Also, in a youtube video I watched where the accelerations were being monitored, there seemed to be a half-second lag time between the actual movement and the reporting of said movement. That would be a hinderance to swinging a sword around, but I don't know if that lag was just a result of using the remote with a PC, or the speed at which the application updated the graph, or what.

Well any improvements are good as far as I'm concerned. What annoys me is the fact that I point at the screen (42" plasma) and the pointer is not where I'm aiming, this is annoying for shooting games. I've told it my sensor is above the TV but it must assume my TV is smaller or something.

Bah, Nintendo's conference just ended and they hardly showed the new gadget and what it could do. They also didn't explain how it works, nor did they say whether you could still use the nunchuck with it attached, but it appeared that it was when they showed some people playing one of the star wars games.

it appeared that it was when they showed some people playing one of the star wars games.
Ooh.. that was probably TFU, real hand>saber tech. Awesome.

>Bah, Nintendo's conference just ended and they hardly showed the new
>gadget and what it could do...

You must have missed some of it. They had an extended segment on the new Wii Sports game that the gadget comes bundled with. It showed them swordfighting in that game, along with jet-ski riding, and frisbee throwing. The Jet Ski one used the nunchuck as well, and the frisbee one gave an idea of how it works. (if it works as advertised it will be a big leap). They also showed a few neat games using the controller, A WWII shooter, Raving Rabbids something or other, and another title I can't remember since the WWII game is stuck in my brain.

I saw the sword fighting, frisbee throwing, and jet skiing. But they were terrible presentations.

They were just wildly swinging the remotes for the sword fight.

And the Jet Ski demonstration could have been done just as easily without the addon. That's hardly something that rrequires precise movements, and they've already done driving games for the system.

And the frisbee demo, they tossed the frisbee, what twice?

Where was the updated baseball or tennis game where you could actually swing the bat/raquet and pitch/serve any way you liked? Where was the fencing game with two professional fencers deuling it out on the stage to show just how precise the controlls really are?

The way they demonstrated the new hardware made it impossible to judge just how accurate it really is, and failed to demonstrate the amazing potential that a true tracking controller really has. If this thing works as avertised then Wii games are about to get a whole lot better as we finally get all those cool things we imagined you could do with the controller before the system came out and we learned the controller wasn't as good as advertised.

> And the frisbee demo, they tossed the frisbee, what twice?

True, but it did show how subtle wrist action was being simulated.

> Where was the fencing game with two professional fencers deuling it out on the stage to show just how precise the controlls really are?

They probably splurged on the snowboarder...

They did show them using the sword in a more nuanced fashion - but they were using slow movements (same as when they showing the frisbee thing) - which leads me to believe the kinks were not worked out yet.

But they did show what the gadget could do. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but they did show it. (certainly not to my satisfaction, I'd like to actually try the thing before I make up my mind about it)

some wii games being played

Yay, finally confirmation... it's a gyro:

http://kotaku.com/5025650/how-exactly-does-the-wiis-motionplus-work

Wiimote Motionplus Hands On:
http://gizmodo.com/5025659/wii-motionplus-hands+on-verdict-melancholy-bliss

Apparently, it works as advertised! When holding a frisbee, no matter what crazy way you hold the remote, it matches the movement, and they say that where the old remote had difficulty detecting a forward thrust as with a sword, with the new addon it no longer suffers from this issue.

Can't wait to see what developers do with this. Maybe we'll finally get some games for the system worth playing. :-)

Boo! MotionPlus isn't going to be out till spring!

http://gizmodo.com/5025641/exclusive-wii-sports-resort-with-motionplus-is-49-in-spring