Europe to make your software illegal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7492907.stm


... so effictively, that means if you have any type of online feature for your application or within your game, you would have to apply for a license (and probably pay) - which then opens the opportunity for anti-competitive corruption; as an example, if a big company like Microsoft had influence on certain people on key decision makers, they could force new updates of FireFox to be delayed or stopped altogether, hence if you are writing software that competes with the big guys, your software could be denied a license simply because it's not within the interests of the decision maker. A bit of an extreme case, but entirely possible.



.... exactly my point.

I look forward to using illegal software then.

> if Microsoft had influence on certain people on key decision makers

Always Microsoft. How about just calling this what it is, a lame brain law. (and it does sound like a doozy)

It certainly is a lame brain law, and one that is there to be taken advantage of by corporate companies who would like to control the Internet.

Im with markcw,

Illegal software it is then!! (This law would be virtually un-enforcable anyway)

As ive always maintained against those who blindly think something must be wrong because its illegal (and vice versa);
Some laws are far from fair, Some protect only the rich, Some laws are not to 'serve and protect' at all -merely to control, and some are just plain stupid.

What are they going to do? Arrest me for using "unlicensed" software? Do we really not have enough people in prisons for us to be locking people up for such retarded reasons?

I expect it would allow EU gov to deny access to non licensed software and could easily extend to censoring web sites. Don't think you have much to worry about Microsoft there, your more likely to be forced to use something other than MS with their current poor relations.

What is it with the hate people have for Microsoft? The real fear should be Google. Mark my words, in another 10 years the demise of your your personal liberty and privacy won't come from Microsoft but from Google and it's collusive relationship with your government. It has already began.

Who said anything about hating microsoft & whats this got to do with them anyway? :/

It wouldnt surprise me if there was some large multi-corporate clout/US influence driving this, but Microsoft are the least likely to be telling the EU what to do until they cough up the billions in fines for unfair business practices (in fact this law could be used on MS software as well, ie; no pay-up, no release authorization). It also would not surprise me if this was nothing to do with piracy, terrorism or anything, rather just an excuse. Governements would love to have full and unconditional control over the net for a multitude of reasons.

I was referring to this comment in the first post.

"if a big company like Microsoft had influence on certain people on key decision makers"

What the heck is it with Europeans automatically assuming everything "bad" or "corrupt" is US driven. You are in serious need of perspective.

The EU is going to censor the internet even more than China or Russia is doing now...

Hey, I think only China and North Korean will want to do that, now EU did, and more efficiently...

Now who said China has no Democracy? :P

Track record

@ H&K You are obviously an illiterate moron ignorant of history.

The US has a "free" press and therefore our dirty laundry is out there for everyone to see. We are very transparent. We have a freedom of information act that gives the press access to almost every corner of our government. I promise you that whatever country you hail from is, at leats, equally corrupt and vile, you are just kept ignorant of the fact by your government funded and controlled press.

If the USA represents "the boogeyman" in the context of your life then you REALLY need to get out and see more of the world.

The EU is the new USSR.

The US is worse because they don't even need the restrictions the EU is creating. Americans adore their bondage. It is a curious thing to see the double-think in America where every government intrusion into our lives is justified in the name of "freedom".

Again. They want to control internet, the need to control internet; if they cannot control the infrastructures they try to determine what users can use/view/read/listen.
The next step after the 'certification' what could be? What is the content/result of the software?

But with people promoting petition for the higher cost of the iphone/carriers and for the 'too-much-colored Diablo III' maybe this is what we need for...

Bad. Very bad signal.

Who is going to stop them? I think it sucks, but who is going to stop them? We can't even keep our murders and rapists in jail in the UK. The government wants to "hug a hoodie" and get people back into society. Christ they are using an outdated computer program to access criminals chances of re-offending. The people aren't doing anything to stop it either :/

Probably because they know nothing will change.

Actually many of us don't. EU/US governments are as bad as each other, i made that comment because the US justice department is pushing for something quite similar - a two tier internet that would require similar controls. Which is why i said i wouldnot be surprised at some involvement/interest. For example, their hostile persuasion from the MPAA & US government led to the unsuccessful raid on pirate bay in Sweden, (even though no national laws were being broken) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay -see politics
(Weather 'pirate bay' is right or wrong is not the point, but its stuff like this that raises eyebrows)

So do we. Actually when some major crap hits the fan i tend to check them all (BBC, ABC, Fox, CNN, Al-Jazera, Xinhua) and read between the lines, just to get some perspective. Each news site is so sided to events its hard to know who's telling it straight, or if its just plain BS/blown out of proportion (like this could very well be)

I guess time will tell :/

At least EU is honest about what they do. Other Contrys do this kind of things in secret.

People living in the US do seem to get more freedoms and say in how the government runs things. Can the Prime Minister be impeached? no. Do you get much of a say in the running of local government outside of picking MP's from specific parties to represent you. Here you get to vote on all the big propositions that are being considered by your state or local government, much like a referendum.

When Tony Blair stepped down, he simply handed over the country to his buddy Brown and there wasn't a thing anyone could do about it. The UK government has refused to allow a referendum regarding the EU constitution, and totaly ignored 85% of the population that want one, and the 70% that say that they would say no.

BTW speaking of new EU legislation. You may soon have to say bye to P2P file sharing.

Europeans suspected of putting movies and music on file-sharing networks could be thrown off the web under proposals before Brussels.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7492907.stm

@Hambone



Therefore as a result of its open honest system "baddness or curruption" is BOUND to be seen to be US driven cos as said other countries pretend not to have such badness.

The fact that you air you laundry in public is going to give the impression you have the dirtest sheets Simply because no one else does.

You cannot have it both ways. If in the US "bad" or "currupt" action is more likly to be discovered than anywhere else, because of its open and free press, then ANY such discoveries statiticly are more likly to be US driven.

@H&K

I, honestly, have no idea what you just tried to say :) I should say up front that I abhor government in almost every form beyond providing military, fire, police and justice services. I am very much a "survival of the fittest" type of person. I believe the private sector, properly motivated with private money can far outperform any government in almost any endeavor.
The biggest problem we face in America, and there are many problems, is the breakdown of family. We have become so selfish and fat it is pathetic. Old people are no longer treated with respect. Children are worshiped/spoiled out of their childhoods and it has become a "me" society. I don't need a government to tell me the difference between right and wrong. A kid needs 2 parents and I was very lucky to have two pretty good ones (I think :)). An elderly mom or dad should be able to depend on their kids in their old age, just like our kids should be able to depend on us. Our governments need to butt out and stop trying legislate and tax every single thing that makes life worth living.

I realize, very few people may share my ( As most of you will think) draconian views however, in America I am free to have and express any view I feel like ... for the time being, at least.

> Can the Prime Minister be impeached?

No - but they can get voted out of office before the end of their term, I forget the term but I believe it is a "No-confidence" vote. That has happened a number of times, and a succesful impeachment (resulting in removal of the president) has happened exactly zero times. So I give the EU countries (in general, lumping them together is bad American of me I admit) the nod on this one.

*does not join in hysteria*

Flameduck:

They won't arrest *YOU* for using unlicensed software. No offense intended, but most likely you are a small fry to the powerful politicians and corporate CEOs.

However, you creates some new communication software that lets people communicate via non-state-controlled means, allowing people to organize politically outside the established channels... and then you go to jail.

Or, you create a widely popular product that competes with with the product of an MP's big campaign supporter, or competes with a product that is a major employer in that MP's riding... then you go to jail.

Or you create a software product that automates the jobs currently done well organized and politically powerful unionized labor - then you go to jail.

The idea isn't to throw everyone in jail... the idea is to throw any troublesome people in jail. As long as you remain a semi-anonymous everyday joe, keep your mouth shut and don't rock the boat politically or economically, they probably won't bother you.

See, in third world dictatorships, they outright arrest/kill their political or economic rivals... in social democracies, such things are considered distasteful. Instead, they just create millions of pages of laws "for your protection", so many that it is impossible to comply with them all, or so vague that almost anyone can be considered in violation, and then when they want to get rid of you they charge you with an entirely legitimate crime that you really did commit!

Wealthy democracies have a much more civilized form of despotism!

Why is it that Americans automatically assuming that everything US driven is not "bad" or "corrupt"? And how is that assumption any better?

Owned exclusively by Rupert Murdoch and Ted Turner is not "free" by any definition of the word, quotes or not. If you seriously think that the US public is well informed, you're the one in dire need of perspective.

Have you ever tried using the Freedom of Information Act to obtain information? Not only does it take a ridiculous amount of time for even the most benign request, but the documents released are often sanitized (read:censored).

No they aren't. The EU is as crooked as the rest of them. Power corrupts.

On the other hand recognizing that the EU isn't a country, or sovereign state, demonstrates your insight quite well.

Sure. But eventually more and more people will get upset, and start rocking the boat. They're too late to stop the Internet. The cat is out of the proverbial bag.

Too true.

I dont, it was a reply to the statemant that the US does have a free press. And that if the poster exepted that, then he shouldt moan if this "free" press had given the world a bad opinion of the US

They don't, that is just your hate stereotype of Americans.



Good thing the U.S. media isn't owned exclusively by Rupert Murdoch and Ted Turner, then. But even a hypothetical corporate media oligarchy is still better than a state media monopoly.



When you define "well informed" as "anti-American" in your mind, that is a self fulfilling prophecy.



Not really. All they have to do is convince people that the internet is dangerous, and there is need for "massive reform" to protect people. Some people you need to frighten by telling them there are racist hate groups on the internet, some you frighten by telling there are child pornographers on the internet, some people you convince that there are terrorists on the internet, some people you convince that the internet is a dangerous place full of scammers and sharks. Just get people hysterical about some perceived danger, and they will go along with anything.

Different political philosophies and different countries have different fears, you just have to target market the right fears to the right group.

If people are willing to give up their right to free speech, their right to bear arms, their right to privacy, which most people already have quite willingly, then they certainly will give up a free internet. Don't mistake your circle of friends as the public at large - Your friends are certainly far less organized and funded, than say the NRA, wouldn't you agree? If the NRA can't stop gun control in America, despite a billion dollars and millions of hardcore supporters and even a constitutional amendment on their side, do you think internet advocates are going to do any better?

Voting is probably the worst idea that has ever been implemented in western nations. They use media manipulation and deception to get you to vote for who they want you to. If the public goes along with it, great. If not, they will simply ignore your vote. When California voters passed proposition 187, the government simply overturned it. Now that the Irish (one of the few nations that were allowed to vote on it) have rejected the Lisbon treaty they will make sure they don't allow them to vote on the next incarnation of it.

"Democracy" just creates a pretty face on a government that is otherwise exactly the same as any other. Elections are a charade. They offer you a "choice", but then correct you if you choose wrong. Or in the case of America, they offer you two pro-war anti-borders candidates and try to convince you there is a difference between them. The only purpose of holding elections is to maintain the appearance of legitimacy.

In America we won independence by shooting people in the face. That's pretty much what it comes down to. You have to be willing to kill the apparatus of the state. That is the only real form of "democracy".

Ok going back to the original topic here, you do know that if this law is ever passed, Firefox, Skype and the like are almost certainly going to be approved? Just because the government announces a ban on a certain dangerous food type, you don't go picketing for your apples and bread do you? But your extra-hydrogonated chips might face the bin.

I think it's perspective time :)

This is just such a stupid quote.

You think so? I can think of a few worse ones. Give me media-influenced democracy over feudalism anyday, and I don't like the look of your inquistors.

Btw despotism is rule by military force, not by information control.

Ugh. The extremes. The extremes. I will say this one last inflammatory thing and then bow out, as it a mostly pointless, but fun topic.
I have noticed that a lot of Europeans, I work with and count many as close friends, admittedly begrudge the success of others. Whether it be nations or individuals does not matter. If someone else is successful, their thinking seems to lead them to believe that the success story must have done something nefarious to get there. Their, shall I say, ego, will not allow them to think it is because the other person is smarter, harder working or even better looking than they are and thus more successful. I know some Americans (north and south) who are like this as well, but it is not nearly the thought mode that I see in my Euro friends. Hell, a close friend just returned from several years in Belgium and I swear he is not the same man ...Very negative ...