An 18 rated software is rated 18 for a reason.

OK, this is really starting to annoy me.

My very young cousin came to me yesterday- he's about 8 years old.

Him:"Have you got Grand Theft Auto?"
Me:"yes."
Him:"I have 1,2,3 and San andreas, and my mate has 4."

That's just really annoying. the 18 is on the box for a reason. You wouldn't let your kids watch 18 films at that age would you? why is a game any different? At that age i'd say a game has more chance of "warping" the childs mind!

Another incident:

I'm standing in Computer Exchange, and a mother and her son were looking for games, her young son bought over GTA vice city- she was clueless to it and was going to bought it until I explained what was actually in the game- at which point her face was a picture, "I didn't know they put that stuff into a game!?"

She put the game back, and I got an absolutely evil look by the kid.

No wonder certain people want to ban these games altogether.

This is no surprise! This is how it's supposed to be.

I too tell parents when I go to game stores. If they seem clueless, I help them understand what's in the games and which ones that would be a better choice. They're all very grateful, because they're completely out of their element.
The stores should have a sign by the entrance that told them how important the ratings were for kids, as adult games REALLY is not meant for them.

Thats not going to unless they are made to do it, as there sales will go down a lot.

some parents dont know
others dont care

i over heard a game clerk telling a parent what goes on in the game and she was going to buy it for her child also, these parents wouldnt stick a child infront of hard core pr0n or horror flick, so why so blase about an 18 rated game?

i heard a brief snippet on the news that children are able (via mummy and daddy's credit card) to buy 18 rated games online with no checks what so ever, im more worried about little timmy having access to my credit card than an 18 rated game tbh

will it warp his mind?
only time will tell
perhaps he'll turn out sour regardless, but those old copies of GTA will come up as evidence years from now

The classification board should do spot checks on occasions, ie send a kid in to buy an 18 game and if they can the shop should be fined. They dont of course as it would cost money they just let them continue.

iir they did that with the online bit, i didnt hear the full story cos it was just a brief headline on the radio news bulletin
i think its trading standards that send kids into the offie, perhaps it would be them and not the bbfc that do such retail checks

regarding the online sales
i dont know what method of payment is used on most sites
do they accept debit cards? if so that would mean they dont need access to parental funds just their own pocket money (i didnt get a cash card till i had left school)
i dont think they are set up for paypal just yet, although it wouldnt surprise me if they are.

Any game potraying death should be rated 18 including fps games. Even the stupid war ones. It's all violence at the end of the day be it in a city with hookers or the army fields of some middle east country.

These age restrictions are pretty ridiculous. 15 should be enough to view all information.

that then takes every game from the 80's out of childrens arms, its hard to think of any game other than 99% of the casual games where killing isnt part of the game mechanics

but realistic gfx + killing = should be a high rating

The situation gets better as people get to know whats in games. This is because 20 years ago the most graphical thing you would get was a jerky scaling sprite with 2 frames.

Pacman? Frogger? Space Invaders? Mario?

Realism is a significant part of the problem, since I doubt that many would have a problem with the games listed above, even though technically they'd be a bloodbath...

I had seen 18s by the time I was 7... that's what happens when you're left with your sister babysitting. Most kids at my school had seen films they were officially way too young to see. I don't think it caused me any problems.

The news these days is much scarier than any film. We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write '****' on their airplanes because it's obscene!

If a shop sees a parent buying a game and they have a small kid with them, they should check that the parent is aware of what they are buying. Because I'm sure that most of them see the 18 rating, but just don't take it seriously because "its just a game".

There aren't many games that you don't die in.

The gripe that people have with the GTA series, is that it contains strong references to drugs, violence, bad language, theft, murder and prostitution (this isn't an exhaustive list). Death is a tiny, tiny part of that.

The game character doesn't actually die. You get patched up and dumped at a hospital, bereft of weapons.

The thing is, too many things get lumped into one when making the decisions of which rating to use for a game. I think there should be different labels like "This game contains explicit sexuality" and "In this game you illegally murder people."

It's a very different thing to have a game with prostitution and murder portrayed as acceptable, as opposed to foul language or realistic depiction of death.

As a random example, I would be much more concerned about a game in which you get points for shooting Muslim "terrorists" on the streets than an adventure game with a lot of foul language and a realistic accident scene.

Would you let your kids play either?

I can see smoking like warnings on the front of game boxes if this keeps up like 'This game is not for people under 18', 'this game contains killing and drug references' on a BIG label on the front.

World of Warcraft is more damaging to children's development than Grand Theft Auto.

WoW is responsible for introverted behaviour, greed and failed grades...

like i said on one of the other similar threads

most if not all of us have seen a 15 or 18 horror movie well before our teens
and again a fair few of us grew up with gaming hardware that never could depict realistic 'anything' the closest we got to rape and murder was custers revenge on the 2600, a game i had never heard of till an article in retro gamer (uk magazine) last year or so

but even if children of today are watching 18 horror movies at 8 its still passive and perhaps only fodder for nightmares
games however are active
its one thing to watch freddy kruger dispatch american teenagers with some witty remark
its another thing completely to BE freddy kruger in a video game doing the same

im citing freddy as years ago (nigh on 15) i happened across a kruger doll, that was meant to be part one of a collectible serise
you could later buy clothing packs that you then dressed the then de-krugerised doll as an alien or predator and a few more were in the pipeline (perhaps robocop too)
as with most collectable toys in forbidden planet these days they arnt for kids but for collectors to probably never open and are priced accordingly
now all those years ago this might have been designed for adults who grew up in the 80's who watched said movies when they shouldnt and not for children of now who still have 12" toys to play with
but the backlash they got was enough to stop there and then with the one doll and the others never left the limited run they had for toy fairs and the box photos

im over 18 i dont want to have my choicees in life dictated by what a child might access when mummy and daddy dear arnt watching
if the movie has a scene where some really nasty things happen to a woman, id rather it would be implied than actually filmed but i wouldnt want it cut from the film cos a minor might see it

on the directors comentary of scarface they said people were sure that the chainsaw to angel scene was originally onscreen and re cut for dvd release
but he said it never was, its just that people imagined the chainsaw doing all the damage that tony montana had to witness, his face told you all you needed to know (and its cheaper too)

Doesn't bother me. Age ratings should be advisory only. I'm not big on compulsory, authoritarian "we know what is good for you" prohibitions. Parents should be the ones to judge what is or is not suitable for children under the age of 16 to watch or play.

As long as they know what is in the game TBH Grand Theft Auto has an 18 rating on the box, parents look at the back nothing describes, drugs, hookers etc.

Life contains drugs and hookers too. I say, if you can live it then you can play it.

Wow good for you; I think that's great that you took the initiative to do so.

I suddenly had a flash mental image of Cygnus laying one hand upon the shoulder of the mother, eyes boggling wildly, sweat beading his brow, trembling just a little with righteous indignation, and feverishly whispering "Let me tell you about the... hookers." in her ear.

LOL @ JustLuke. Cygnus should then go buy it for himself ;-P

And suddenly GTA for the NES causes much less concern then Minesweeper: The Movie...

Well I played Duke Nukem 3D and GTA way before I was 18 and I haven't turned out murderous or drug-taking. Age restrictions are just a bandage - the parents should know what the games contain and whether they are suitable for their children. But in the absence of this, a bandage is better than nothing.

Life contains a lot of bad stuff, and entertainment is based on life.

Just look at how more violent and uncouth under 16's that don't feature in national statistics have become of late though. Up almost 40% over the last few years whilst adult violence is dropping.

I would have been ticked if I were that kid! Funny this thread came up though as I was in the store the other day and a mother was buying the limited edition PS3 with Metal Gear Solid 4. I contemplated telling her the very same thing but I held back thinking about how I would have felt as that kid and also because I didn't know their whole story.

As it turns out it was his birthday but also the 1 year anniversary of the kid's father passing away. I was glad I didn't interfere although I don't know what will be better in the long run for the kid.

To me it's fine for children to experience most things so long as they do so with their parents explaining the difference between reality and make believe. I wasn't censored as a kid and I think Mortal Kombat was pretty bad. I have to admit though that even I feel appalled by the content of GTA IV and would never let it into the hands of my children unless they were over 17 and even then I feel it's pushing the envelope.

Games today are just different then they were even 10 years ago. They are more complex, absorbing, and even life-sucking. Back in the day you could only play a game for a few hours before it became boring enough to warrant a visit to the great outdoors. These days somethings amiss when people die playing because they refuse to take a potty break. I don't know what's worse 8-year olds playing GTA and inflicting damage in the real world or people getting addicted to MMO's and forgetting the real world altogether.

Is anyone else slightly worried about how you find this out after seeing a random kid in a shop?

Games influece the culture, is a culture mature enough to handle certain kinds of games in a mature way?, can a game used to influence a culture for the good of it instead of serving just as a way to "escape" or "impressing" or "entertain" while life passes away?.

Any parent who has not heard about games for aduts only have no excuse at all. Theres been plenty of press/news about it.
If my kid was say 13 and playing GTA or manhunt round a friends house there would be hell to pay. But either way there isnt much i could do about it. However if his friends parents were getting him pissed or allowing them to watch restricted-r18 (ie. porn) then there would be (which in my mind is stupid, it should include 18 rated movies as well.)

Lot's of parents make that mistake and totally don't think about how realistic and bloody some games are and may have sexual content.

They don't look at the 18+ sign at the back at all. My dad made the same mistake with my little brothers (Both under the age of 10 at that time) and bought them Carmageddon in the past. He only noticed how violent the game was while my little brother was playing it and took the game away.

I explained my father he should watch for 18+ logo's as well on the box next time.

What stores should improve is to have a 18+ content space on top of the shelves wich the little kids cannot reach with a big sign which says "Only for 18 or older!". Mostly I see 18+ content between the other bargain games wich are for the smaller kids, so the stores make it confusing also.

If a parent wants to let their kids play an 18-rated game, it's their choice. The problem is when they don't have a clue as to the content.

Still, I was watching 18 rated horror flicks with my mom at a young age (Chucky, for instance, which is now banned entirely). Whilst such films fuelled my imagination, it was only in the direction of "wow, that was a really cool effect, I wonder how they did that?" rather than "hmm, does that really happen if you stab someone, I want to find out."

That is the big difference.

Good kids, raised by good parents, can watch scenes involving violence, no matter how extreme and will not seek to recreate that violence.

Bad kids, raised by bad parents, will immediately seek to recreate scenes of violence. They do not imagine the consequence of their actions. Or they do imagine the consequence, but don't care.


I'm not against the rating system, but let's cure the damn problem instead of patching up the after-effects. Those bad kids will find something else to satisfy their destructive tendencies if they can't get hold of 18+ rated material.

Well said.

The problem i think is that kids right now are not raised by bad or good parents but by the mass media, i dont think that parents right now spend much time nurturing their children.

I find that incredible, i mean what planet do they live on?!?
Thats like someone saying "ahhh, i didnt realise gordon brown was prime minister!", "Iraq? whats that all about then?", "Heroin is bad for you? since when?!" or "European Union?.. Fine city in dubai isnt it?"

If they banned computer games because of clueless parents, it would be just another example of liberty lost to an apathetic, uninformed public who would rather be watching 'top model' & 'pop idol' than care what really effects them & their kids.

Even my mum, 58 y/o, hates computers and has never lifted a gamepad in her life... even she is clued in to it all! (and not by me).

D4NM4N: MY GF didn't know Gordon Brown was prime minister,and she wouldn't be able to tell you anything about Iraq either. Simply because her world exists of her job, playing computer games, east enders and Tesco. This is pretty common for alot of people sadly.

I do all that too (except eastenders :P) but i still watch the news, read the paper/internet, or listen to the radio occasionally.
I mean no offence, but anyone who doesnt deserves to live in a fascist police state -for their own good.

I was waiting in line to buy Professor Layton for my sister's birthday and the kid's mother was talking to the clerk.

Oh yeh, that's what you tend to tell clerks :)

Believe it or not that's what she told the clerk. She was just rationalizing the expensive purchase.

I take it you don't like her for her brains then? I mean, I know that some people say that ignorance is bliss, but... wow.

That would depend on the age of "kids".

This really annoys me as well. You wouldn't expect a parent to take their children to see an 18 certificate film - yet they ignore the 18 certificate on the box.

The thought from parents is games are only for children, consequently all games must be cute, fun and cuddly. Now are all films like that? No they certainly aren't. Graphics in games are becoming very real and the content is more true to life, perhaps they should buy a computer magazine now and again - or borrow one from one of the kids.

You've got a point - particularly regarding the idea that games are only for kids - but many parents allow their children to watch, rent or purchase 18 certificate movies on DVD. Who here watched 18 certificate movies when they were too young to legally do so? Everyone, I bet.

One more point: there seems to be a common misconception that children are unable to distinguish fact from fiction. Children are young, not retarded. They lack knowledge and experience but they don't lack the cognitive ability to discern a difference between fantasy and reality. When I was a child video game graphics were extremely basic, however I read many of novels, featuring uncompromising themes, situations and scenes, that were intended for adult consumption. I watched plenty of 18 certificate movies. I never confused what I read or watched (which sometimes was far more vivid, detailed, and graphic than anything featured in a game) with reality, and this is not because I was an exceptionally perceptive child.

I had a similar experience to this a few days ago.

Sitting in a target, looking at all the games, and this parent comes up and starts looking around at games with a child. I'd say the child was maybe 6 or 7. The kid picked out Resident Evil 4! So I walked over and told the parent to look on the back of the game, Where it showed the chainsaw people. She took one look and left the store.

I mean, yay! Lets show our children senseless violence in the form of chopping peoples heads off with chainsaws!!!

Sometimes, in my opinion, the classification board gets it wrong. I played Wing Commander IV many years ago, and on the side of the box it had a rating of M or Mature or something but on the plastic shrinkwrap the Film & Literature Classification board had placed a big "G 8+" sticker. After a small number of missions into the game the player defects to the other side and in a film-quality cinematic one of the main bad guys is seen executing another officer with a knife across the throat which was quite sickening. There is another scene later on of the main bad guy found hanging in his cell.

Now I don't have kids, but I would be quite unhappy if I'd bought a game that said "G 8+" on the box but which had such scenes and gave it as a gift to a child of that or even somewhat older.

I think parents don't expect from the local toy stores that they might sell 18+ content and that it lies within a kids reach in the first place.

You might see games like Resident Evil maybe next to Mario Bros, games are not sorted on age, mostly only on price.
I just compare this like a video store would mix horror between Disney movies.
Or a supermarket that would put the beer between the lemonade and so on...
Most toy stores could improve on that.

I don't think it's wrong if parents know the game is for 18+ and agree to it that their 14 year old son may play it.

Missed this thread. I don't let my kids play 12+ games (my kids are 4 and 7) and I definitely wouldn't let them play 18 games like Resident Evil or GTA 4, same as I don't let them watch stuff for adults. a) they might have nightmares or be generally disturbed b) I don't want them behaving more violently in the playground.

So Cygnus, I'm proud that you told the kid's mum and I think stores should be more careful. Until you have your own kids to look after it may be harder for some people to understand why they need protecting. I don't "mollycoddle" them, I let them lay outside and fall over and do some dumb things, but when I was a kid I was never exposed to the plethora of media that's available now. I happen to think that some kids cartoons are even a bit "on the edge" in their content actually...something an 8-10 year old may watch and find funny just isn't right for an innocent 3-4 year old, but if you have an older sibling, you are bound to grow up a bit faster...

Grey,
We are educated about games. We know what a game rating is. But I'm playing Sid Meiers Pirates which is 12+ and I wonder why? I know my daughter loves pirates and ships and it doesn't look harmful to me, so maybe I will let her play :D

Were you people ever teenagers? There is absolutely no way my parents could have forbidden me to see any movie I wanted or play any game. If it is out there, at least one person's parents won't care, and everyone will go to their house to play it.

Teenagers are different from little kids. Sure, when I was a teenager I did all sorts of stuff and I'm sure my kids will too...

Roman: some 12 games can actually be scary for a little kid. I played a Broken Sword game with my son (who was a bit younger at the time) and he got scared and so we stopped playing it. Others are harmless. Some I'd let my 7 year old play but not my 4 year old such as Metal Slug Anthology which has exploding pixel art bodies etc. I'm pretty sure any games <12 are just rated based on difficulty, not content.

So your parents let you watch Horror movies when you where 5 together with your 5 year old friends? It's hard to decide from which age exactly it's best to play games which are more violent, but it's best to let the parents decide in that.

18+ is maybe too high age labeled on products sometimes, but it gives a good indication on what you should expect to see on your screen when playing a game, or watch a movie. But I bet most parents would give you permission to buy a game with 18+ content if you where 16 (just an example).

It's just that until your 18, your parents have to decide what is best for you. And that doesn't only apply on computergames.

No, if they told me I couldn't watch a movie or play a game, I just went to my friend's house to do it. There is no way parents can control that.

Same here. And I reckon that if you're resourceful enough to successfully circumvate your parents rules, you're old enough to watch any movie or play any game.

To be honest i dont think kids with good heads on them of 13+ is the problem they should already know right and wrong. Problem is not all of them are mature enough mentally to handle this stuff properly. I was watching 18/X movies on the sly too when i was about 11 and some gave me some pretty bad nightmares after watching nightmare on elm street, texas.c.s.m, fri 13th, halloween etc. (I even developed a genuine phobia about fog too after watching the original j.c. version for about a year afterwards. Fog still gives me the slight creeps but its just an old childhood terror haunting me :).

Its more the kids between 3 and 12 that its definately not healthy to be exposed to this kind of horror or violence, even old films like those -let alone the new games/films which are much much more graphic than those old flicks.

The law and parents have to be seen to be acting more responsible otherwise they are gonna get banned and that would P me off.

It's basically down to parental repsonsibility and people behaving like repsonsible parents. The problem is (like most social problems) you just can't MAKE people behave like good parents (or good citizens or whatever) and some people just won't be good parents (citizen, youths, insert group here). And guesss what? Kids who don't have good parents tend to make bad parents too and thus the cycle repeats. Now for the hard part: There's almost nothing you can do about it. If you really want (and know what your doing), adopt a kid a change their world, but it's only one child at a time and that's about all anyone can do. It's a sad fact but some people just don't give a damn about their kids or what they do.

I don't let my kids watch inappropriate films now (3 & 7) and I'm also sure that when they are mature enough to choose what they are watching (probably 15-16) I will more or less let them choose to watch whatever they want because prohibition will likely have more attraction than anything else. But then I'm not some completely worthless, callous and cruel wretch like the ones in the link who should have got 20 years each. And then there are some films I'm amazed people want to see at all.

Darkheart

Intresting, I'm 16, and I have no problem with playing 18+ games.

It's Kids like 9 and below playing games like GTA 4 and RE that get on my nerves.

I agree with the whole "board gets the rating wrong".

I played a game once (Vandal Hearts For the PS1) that was rated "e" and had a "Mild Strong Language" And "Mild Gore" sticker on it. While playing it, if you killed something, It would split in two, blood would gush out everywhere, and the player would swear in cursewords to return and rip your head off.

...I was 7. I didn't sleep for months.



Edit:
Googled it.

Sure, It doesnt look bad, But when you add a dialouge box saying "I'll be back, b******s!" it gets pretty bad.

LOL, thats really bad!
an E rated game with language and gore?

Something interesting that I've noticed about rated M games, is that
they are generally a lot less fun.

For instance, I bought Resident Evil 4, because I heard how cool it was,
and right after I won the game, I sold it. Because it really wasn't all
that fun. It was just trying to get by on all the gore, and movie scenes.

Same thing for Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes.
I sold the game right after I won it, because it really wasn't very fun.
It was trying to get by on the gore and the INCREDIBLY LONG movie
scenes. I actually liked Metal Gear 2, for the NES better.

Anyways, my point is this. Every M rated game I've ever played, was
really not all that good. They are all just trying to get by on Gore and
language and movie scenes, that GamePlay is totally forgotten.

So all the Blood and Gore and language is pointless. A game can be
just as good, or better without it.

The Mighty WERDNA(Lord Of Darkness)

Loved RE4 myself, beat it completely, all the extra stuff and all that.

And I still play it.

It is pretty gory though, like when the dogs ripped out your ribcage etc.

And I guess most games could be good without blood and gore. But I think langauge is kinda important in some games.... Like, you wouldn't have a WW2 soldier walking up to an enemy and asking if he wants a cuppa tea.
But there should be a limit.

most 15 rated movies are no worse or better than 18 rated during the 80's
saw and hostel got their 18 ratings due to the gore levels involved, but i doubt the movies would have worked well if at all if it was sanitized for the young uns

if you put any nightmare on elm street movie up against any scream, i know what you did last summer (ok one ive not watched but its a teen genre movie) urban legends or any other 'teen slasher movie' from the 90's most will be rated 15 yet give or take the same amount of swearing, nudity, gore and the old 'i only jumped cos it was so quiet then you tried deafening me with your 5.1 settings whacked on full violin shriek'

i reckon you could re rate nightmare to 15 without cuts as we show more to 15 year olds now a days

time moves on and what was shocking in the 80's movies is common place on some tv shows now

im not saying that flash forward 5 or 10 years and the latest incarnation of nypd blue will play out like a cutscene from gta or that gta will have its weekly animated childrens slot on cbbees

You have a point about the swearing Terry B.
Some swearing I suppose is 'ok' if really appropiate for the situation.
The thing that really annoys me is the gore. Its totally pointless and
unnessacary. A good game that absolutely needs blood, can get by
on just a little bit. Not all the brains and other innards that are shown
in some games.

The Mighty WERDNA(Lord Of Darkness)

I loved RE 4 and not cos of the movies and gore - it was very well balanced and addictive and just had a great feel. I have Twin Snakes in a "to play" pile so I reserve judgement on that.

I will admit some good points about RE 4.

The weapon upgrade system was very good, how you had to buy the
different upgrades and how there were so many of them.

The interactive movie scenes were unique, although repetitive, and
the game was just too easy.

I would have rathered that the entire game was like Mercenary Mode.
Mercenary Mode was so cool and Arcade like that it gave me some
great ideas if I ever want to do a first person shooter of my own.

But overall the game was just bland, and repetitive, and had dumb
AI.

The only truly memorable part of it, was when Leon got to dodge the
lasers around the end of the game. It was so corny and Matrix like,
that it just makes me laugh thinking about it.

The Mighty WERDNA(Lord Of Darkness)

Yeah I loved the upgrading. It's a classic "meta-game" which I always find addictive. Interactive movie scenes are always a bit annoying. I liked the exploring and collecting stuff, I always do, plus the combat was a blast (way better than the old RE games). Still I won't let me son play it until he's maybe a teenager.

Good move, it is quite gory.

And although I don't like it, I'm glad that
you enjoy it. I suppose it is probably a good game, just not my style.

The Stylish WERDNA(Lord Of Cool)

To be honest the whole swearing thing is lost to generation. If my parents used the word 'bloody' in front of their parents they would get a clip round the ear. Likewise if i used the F word in front of mine, but saying bloody was ok. Everyone i know of my age group (early 30s) uses the F word when in similar company, just in a more mature, reserved fashion.
The thing is the younger generation of 8-18 year olds are far more clued in on the latest (and oldest) profanities than we adults will ever be. So the whole thing about swearing and kids is redundant anyway.

With my son who is only three, if i ever hear some choice words comming out of his mouth i will simply say, "swearing is fine son, just dont do it in front of any people over 30. Its not suitable for some of them"

We don't swear in front of our kids and they don't watch swearing on TV or in games and thus they don't swear (yet), but I'm sure they will one day. When they do I'll tell them just watch who they swear in front of and also the TONE of the swearing (e.g. aggressive) I'd also rather they used more varied vocabulary than f this and f that.

@Werdna: That's the beauty of games, we are all different and there's something for all of us.

I called my dad a sod one time, and a git another and both times got a good slapping and deserved it. The main reason we avoided having kids is that society today isn't one I want to bring kids up in. It might be ok at home, but once they go to school it gets much harder to keep them on the straight and narrow.

Agreed, you can't dictate who they mix with at school and there are some messed up kids.

back to games: All the local kids play outside and the other day my 7 year old say "let's play Call of Duty 4" and he meant a running around hiding/shooting game with sticks. I asked him how he knew about that game and he said he plays it round the neighbour's house all the time (their boy is 12 or something) on their Xbox 360. My 4 year old has also been going round there too and I think the game is too violent for them but I can't really ban them from going round there. I've asked them not to play it but I've no idea if they actually obey me...

i completely agree with this thread. i go to a private Christian high school, and when i talk to some of the people there, every other word is some type of swear word. id hate to see how it is in public schools. wherever it is im guessing it comes from movies and games and any other media.

I agree with that completly Jerome, there is far too much swearing.

I also think putting Nudity in games is absolutely ridiculus. There is just
no point to it, it has no place in a game!

An OutRaged WERDNA(Lord Of Anger)

Anything that is rated 18 or Adult sells like "Butter in the sun"

thats why all my games will have the rate of 18e + adlut :D

Moste important that is why its rated to 18.

think of Mario GTA. !

Youtube is just as bad. My daughter was looking for ghost videos...she came across one where a guy pops up at the end with a mask on and screams. Both my kids were a mess for about 10 minutes crying and having a fit. Needless to say they won't be looking on Youtube for awhile.

i find most horror movies to be that these days
nothing but the odd "BOO!!!" inbetween quiet moments

I tell you what, i just watched that blood diamond. It reminded me that while we in the west all have our nickers in a twist over kids playing a few games and swearing, some kids in africa are doing it for real.

Just thought it was 'food for thought' thats all. Just goes to show how different things can be. :/

aye i thought about that on another thread last month or so

we have laws stating when someone is old enough to join the army
or even if they are mentally or physically fit enough to do so

over there in some war torn/civil war countries all you have to do is be able to hold a gun almost as long as you are tall and use it

Dont blame the games.

Curse the one who make a weapon. The dark brotherhood will make them famaly member.

Praise the Wolfenstain for learing head shoot
Praise Doom for learning chain sawing.
Praise DukeNuke 3d for learning Shooting Nasty Sluts.
Praise DarkMessia for learing slip throats.
Praise GTA4 for learning PIMP rides and bankrobber.

Hmmm my god i realy am evel.. know more about these games than bible itself..

You forgot about Soldier of Fortune for introduce multiple hit locations (18 I think) and body parts that can be blown off - it was gross, but cool.

You right forgot about multikills.. and trippe kills..

note Halo says kills nor murder.. i say the wictom dosent care.. kill or murderd..

there is a legal difference between killing someone and murdering them, well as far as the army goes that is

no one would join the army if during a fire fight they shot and killed x enimy soldiers and at the end of it were banged up in jail for 25 years for each person

GTA etc ill go with murder and gangland killings

fps you frag em :)

i wonder how many crew members there are to the average alien ship in shoot em ups, 1 pilot like jet fighters or a mini crew of 5 or so
and if you are earths last best hope against xyz how comes there are 2 other ships to pilot when you 'die' ... like someone said at the end of rtype when all the other ships came up "where the bloody hell have you been?" (i think it was a retrogamers end game page)