Audio recording in PC

I don't really want to hijack Pete's thread, and this is really just a quick question:

Is it worth while investing in an 8 track/16 track type of device for recording music? With my desktop PC, i'm rather stuck to being in a the place all the time, which is ok most of the time.

I got a sound card a while back with 2 inputs and 2 outputs so i can edit each of the 2 tracks independantly, but i'm finding myself mixing tracks via a minimixer into one track so i can record 3 and 4 tracks, but i lose the ability to edit the tracks independantly.

I've never used an 8 track type device before, because i've never needed to, but i now need to individually edit more than 2 tracks.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

[EDIT]

Is this the type of thing i'd be after? (me knows little)

http://www.lifeismusic.co.uk/karaoke/Studiomaster-C3-19-Rackmount-M-1402.aspx

pimping zooms h4 again ;)
2 inputs (xlr or whatever/normal guitar lead) records as one track for later mix down using the (ive never used it) built in project manager or just drag em from usb to mixer program of your choice

its portable so you DON'T have to be stuck at your desk all the time

ive found it quiet on pc playback but addequate via headphones but that can be sorted in the mix
using one input in normal stereo mode means the right (or left if you use tother) plays silent (wasting half the card in the process) perhaps there is a mono recording mode ive just not looked hard enough (i got a bass lead splitter and do it that way saves faffing in the mix ... plus i can have one going to the fx then h4 and the other just the h4 so other half of the band can hear what i was whacking ... or better still a totally different fx board and setting for extra oddness)

Sounds good. But you say it only has 2 inputs?

Alesis MultiMix desks, I've got the Alesis MultiMix 12 firewire, and it's a cracking bit of kit and excellent value too.





http://www.dv247.com/invt/29910/

Thanks Rob. The 12 track one is no longer available but the 8 track looks like it's a decent price. Thanks :o)

One thing to check for (if you're using vista) that the drivers work!

I know for the multimix 12 firewire there are no vista drivers.

Alesis seem to do great hardware, but not so hot on the drivers. That said, it works perfectly with XP.

I got XP, and i don't think i'll be changing till i really have too. Thanks again.

aye only two inputs but it works as a 4 track (by doing 3 and 4 afterwards)
all depends on what you are doing i guess
me its right tool

if you had to do all 4 or more together then its pants as it cant do it



i wasnt too sure how to read this bit, but if it was a home recording studio then you would probably be doing it one track at a time (unless a band jam) and using some sequencer program or another

Thus the need to go portable, as i can't be lugging about my PC with me :o) I'm currently stuck doing one track at a time, except now i can record vocal and acoustic guitar at the same time, to different tracks. But, if i have some other guys, i like to capture all the band members at once, then i can edit the individual track levels later :o)

Apart from being a PL/1 coder, I've been also working for the last 10 years on sound producing, I own a Studio and I have been asked lots of times about this. I would recommend you to use any scope home card from Creamware. they have HUGE AD/DA conversors, in-card built-in effects DSPs, support for ASIO 2.0 using ULLI (so you can have a latency of only 5 milliseconds), and at a very reasonably price. They sound as good as some a lot expensier audio workstations.

http://www.sonic-core.net/en/home/index.html

well for band work the h4 is deffo out of the question
the h2 can work as a live mix plonk it in the middle and let its 360 deg mics do their job but no chance of fine tuning each band member, good for jams though

so a hard drive based 8 or 16 track* is more needed for portability or a whizbang sound card for desk top use

dont know bout the others but zooms 8 track only has 2 inputs and the 16 has 8
thing is their is like only £50 (without checking) difference from digital village think the 16 track is a penny shy of £500

This is likely a dumb question, but I can't find the answer definitively in the Alesis documentation I've been looking at (or just don't quite understand the terms they're using):

Do the Alesis MultiMixes (firewire or USB) have multiple recording outs (ie more than one stereo out)? I mean, as many things as you cram in to the mixer's inputs, you can get out the other side as individual tracks in One's Favourite Digital Recording Software (or whatever)?

I suspect this is the case, but I like the plain-speaking of you lot rather than the "Hrmm... well I'm pretty sure that means it does" advertising speak of the documentation. :o)

On the ASIO protocol, ins and outs are not paired, so you have 8 ins and 8 outs. Configure them as you wish, you can out a mix of everything due outs 1-2 (to make a LR output), or whatever configuration you wish, if you use a capable recording software. I would recommend Samplitude if you're working on windows, on Mac, Logic Audio.

The Alesis Multimix that I have gives you 12 inputs and 2 outputs (left and right master out).

The 12 inputs act like individual mic inputs on your control panel. Depending on your recording software it will either pick up on the 12 inputs and use them natively and 'just work' allowing you to record 12 individual things on 12 different channels all nice and seperate.

If you're using something that cannot record multiple inputs at the same time you use the alesis control panel to assign what inputs you want to record from.

The outputs are for sending the audio from your computer back into the mixing desk (for playback etc).

Thaaaaat's what I'm talking about.

Cool.

I have a new toy to save up for. :o)

The Alesis Multimix only lets you record a sterio mix making it next usless for recording a band unless you get the volumes and eq just right there and then. which i would say is very doubtful.

How many tracks do you need?
You have some choices.

computer based



If your recording an average 3 piece band thats.

6 tracks for the drums (maybe 7) Kick, Snare, 2-3 toms, overheads/hats

1 for bass (DI) i use a ampeg plugin its alot easyer than micing a cab.

1 guitar (sm57 or 906)

1 vocal (beta 57)


thats 9-10 tracks if you want to beable to mix everything on different tracks.

Id say the most portable way of doing it is a fast laptop and 2 presonus firepods (fp10's) linked together. giving you upto 16 track at a time.

The hardware option

Theres not many multitrack units that will record over 8 tracks at a time. Most of them have only half of the inputs on XLR.

you still need alot of mics

most of the multitracks have usb now so transfering the tracks to pc should be easy.

If You need any info on music hardware thats my day job so id be happy to help. mics, pres, mixers, comps etc

Pete

im thinking about this http://www.dv247.com/invt/50046/

Pete,

I don't know where you have received your information from but I think you might be mistaken about the multimix, my one at least (Alesis Multimix 12 Firewire) gives me 12 independant recordable channels all recording at the same time on different tracks on my computer. It works this way on Cubase and Reaper.

Now, I accept it is entirely possible that mine is totally unique and is the only one that allows the user to do this, however, it seems somewhat unlikely.

I accept I rarely use this feature and I have never actually recorded all 12 channels at the same time (I have recorded six though).

Fight! Fight! Fight! :o)

You see now where my confusion lies. Most of the things I read seem like they're as Rob describes, but turn out to be what Pete is saying. I'd hate to choose poorly because I was misled by some clever marketing speak.

As far as recording the band goes, I'm blessed by a drummer with a TD-20 (only a stereo out to deal with - no miking up), a bassist that can take a direct out of his amp head and a guitarist that goes via his GT-5 effects to give a stereo out. Add the keys to that (stereo) and it's 7 separate inputs plus vocals.

So if we could get this sorted, I'd be happy to know which low-end one of these bad boys I should be aiming for. ;o)

myself im looking at a later in the year (bday+xmas) an 8 or more input 16 track recorder (might stick with zoom as i have fx and digital recorders from them so seems consumer whoreish to me ;) )

i still dont trust my pc to accept multiple sound inputs and not fall over mid recording taking the mix down with it

my old tascam tape based 4 track fit into a record bag and looking at the pix from digital village the zoom 16 track is a similar size, so its portable for me ... 80gb hard drive and mix down to CD-R if you want (and usb so you can harvest individual tracks and muck around on the pc)

most things that look like (look that is not act) robs ive seen are just hardware faders for software ... sometimes the widdles and dials just dont quite work on a pc screen .... esp if you want to change 5 tracks volume at a time 'live'

Rob Farley
Sorry yes after downloading the manual of the firewire multimix 12 it seams that you can record all the chanels at the same time? the usb version doesnt though. You have to go careful on the Alesis website because at no point does it say that all tracks are sent to the computer and on most mixers only the sterio is sent. I had to download the manual to find out.

it does look like the multimix 12 is discontinued though, or at least in the uk.
alesis seam to discontinue anything in the mid range if it starts out selling the top range model, they did it with the iO|14 which was a bargain.

The best price i could find that had one was £259 and for this price i would go for something that had more xlr inputs but its still a nice bit of kit.

I just had a chat with a guy thats got the M-audio fast track ultra 8r and hes going to bring it round so i can try it :O)

hes said its records 8 xlr mic channels at 24bit 96khz all at the same time with no problems. sounds like its the product i want.

Pete

Hrmm... so firewire does, but USB doesn't. I guess that explains why the USB ones exist, otherwise I couldn't understand why you'd plump for the more expensive firewire versions of the same thing.

Curiouser and curiouser.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alesis-Multimix-12-Firewire---Logic-Pro-Cubase-etc_W0QQitemZ260254553950QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806230934a34680

Alesis io|26 http://www.dv247.com/invt/32250/

this looks like a good option if you have firewire, which i dont on the laptop im using.

it has 8 xlr inputs and if you need more you can daisy chain them for 16 channels.

Rob Farley: thanks for bring my atention to alesis rob, they are bring out a version of your mixer thats USB the multimix 16 2.0 this should suit me down to the ground.