More info from Mark

Mark's recent, and very welcome, weekly trend of updating his progress on Max3D continues with news on shadows and bones.

http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=1&log=1043

Cool. Wonder what issues will be cleaned up?

Looking forward to the Bmax 1.30 update. It would be nice for Mark to mention his possible future plans for BMax too in his worklogs along with Max3D I think. Maybe if he is reading he will consider it.

Hopefully BMax has a bright future planned.

Jason.

I supose it'll be a collection of all fixed done in the svn beta versions, wich otherwise, would be great. I really love to read marks worklogs and see how everything evolves in the brl side. I'm sure Mark has always been working on the last years, but knowing it, instead of guessing it, makes a great unspected and welcome difference.

..good..good..this is good...

Thanks for another post Mark, this is what we like :)

I hope the 1.30 update will be downloadable through syncmods and not require the whole svn thing. [edit] Per GFK's thing below, what was I thinking?! :-D[/edit]

We've never ever had to download major updates through Syncmods - they're all available from your Account/Updates page and apparently, will continue to be. You should only be using the SVN version if you want to try out the latest fixes - I see it as a beta version.

Anyway, looks like Mark's really got his mojo back.

I wonder what's in BlitzMax 1.30?

Well, I'm happy for you guys. But I'm still waiting for an official announcement for multi-threading, working OS X printing support in MaxGUI, a 64-bit compiler for Intel/PowerPC --AND-- a compiler for OS X iPhone. You'd probably sell more BlitzMax for iPhone licenses than for all other platforms together - it would relieve the people of having to code in that ugly Objective-C language.

That's basically it - just sanity checking all the stuff that's been committed to svn and bringing it together to make a complete package. V130 will be a full setup too, not just an update. I've already updated the demos and everything seems to be working well.

Syncmods may be disappearing in 130 - just have to check with Brucey if he's still using it for his own stuff (Brucey?). V1.30 Maxgui module will be distributed via a zip file from the product updates page. 'Bleeding edge' updates will continue to be available via SVN.

I may put together a little svn tool for those who are having problems here - but honestly, it's not THAT hard! Just install SVN and go...

svn checkout http://blitzbasic.com:81/svn/blitzmax/dev/main c:\blitzmax
svn checkout http://blitzbasic.com:81/svn/blitzmax/dev/win32_x86/bin c:\blitzmax\bin
svn checkout http://blitzbasic.com:81/svn/maxgui/dev/maxgui.mod c:\blitzmax\mod\maxgui.mod

...which effectively 'copies' svn files to your computer. Then to sync with any updates...

svn update c:\blitzmax
svn update c:\blitzmax\bin
svn update c:\blitzmax\mod\maxgui.mod

...and rebuild modules if necessary - ie: if anything in 'mod/' was updated.

The main trouble with syncmods was it really just introduced another point of failure. Not only did I have to deal with keeping 4 (platform) copies in sync via svn, I also had to do the same with syncmods (which wasn't that smart and required manually updating version numbers) - mess up one step, and suddenly there's a ton of unhappy users with link problems and so on. It effectively created 8 versions of Max too - the 4 I'm working with via svn, and the 4 available via syncmods - it was nuts! Also, it couldn't handle anything not in /mod/, like the compiler, bmk etc.

Installer for V1.30 sounds good, hopefully you'll update the demo too for potential customers...

Question: Where can I find a list of changes please? I ask because V1.28 is nice and stable for me and I need to check out each of the changes in case it may adversely affect my current game. Thanks.

They're already done.

Plenty of feedback and an updated demo. I like this new direction!

Yup, Mark seems really fired up. Lots of worklog updates and an interest in feedback from the userbase. It's interesting because I've put Blitz3D to the back of my mind for a year or two, but now I'm "watching this space" as they say.

Great news on the update and updated demo, that will be of great use to us too.

I think the SVN thing *sounds* good and I totally agree sometimes you can end up writing several versions of the same code which is far from ideal. However, you really need to build an `easy button` into the IDE. To now go from choosing a simple menu option to do an update, to even figuring out to/how to open a terminal/dos window, to then having to know and type these commands, and to then do a manual syncmods, I mean, that is TOO MUCH for the average user. Too complicated, and beginners are going to be totally lost. It might be really easy for you Mark who are very familiar with low level BlitzMax systems and how it all works, etc, to think that typing some stuff in a terminal is easy, but this is the age of GUI's and IDE's and I find it a big put-off needing to do these `manual` steps when it could be just a simple matter of hitting a button or choosing a menu option. In my opinion you've made the system worse than it was. It's right up there alongside not having automatic inclusion of modules that are used, rather than expecting the user to a) figure out what the modules are and b) figure out which ones to include/import where. This stuff should be automatic.

How hard would it really be to add a menu option in the IDE which executes some terminal/dos instructions behind the scenes or outputs to some temporary window without the user having to do anything? And also without having to explicitly go fetch and install SVN or get it up and running? You should have an installation script or something. If you could make this work automatically and seamlessly I for one would be much happier with it. Meanwhile me and many other people now are restricted to waiting for major updates downloaded from the site before they can enjoy any fixes or additions.

So far the versions.doc for 1.30 Beta (SVN download) only lists the following change:



I assume that there will be an updated versions.doc once the final 1.30 is released...

I don't mind waiting several months for an official update to BMax, I mean that's all users have had with B3D/B+. I'm not a beta person but if I was I wouldn't find having to fetch SVN and follow a few command lines too much trouble. Syncmods was fun but I'll be glad to see it go because it hinders BMax's cross-platform ability. I'm looking forward to getting MaxGUI in a zip, I would prefer an installer but only because everything else from BRL uses an installer. Also looking forward to V1.30.

Not recently, Mark... was far too much work to keep all 4 versions under control. Farewell Syncmods.... *sniff*

Is Max3d going to be a new product for us BMax owners to purchase, or a free addon?

If there's no chance of getting a DX9 B3D looks like I may have to move on to actually using that copy of BMax I bought when it came out...

I think it's almost insulting asking that question... Mark has to make some money, somehow, you know... It's not as if that $80 you paid a few years ago buys you Mark's soul for the rest of his working life...

I don't mean for this to be a personal attack, but a lot of people seem to forget that Mark has to make a living.

lol Vorderman, of course we will have to buy Max3d. Although maybe existing BMax and B3D owners will get a special deal.

you'll get to find all the bugs ;-)

Then you're an idiot because it's a valid question - I bought BMax upon release mostly on the promise of the apparently imminent 3d addon, consequently BMax has sat on my HD for a few years unused awaiting this promised feature.

I dont think it was promised to be free, even back then.

..I dont want B3D V.20 to be free....i will be very happy to pay for fresh good, stable, shader breathing and fast multiplatform B3D..yeahh :)

Mark says in his worklog that 'Blitz3D2' is a maybe, so I don't think at this point you can say "there's no chance of getting a DX9 B3D". Why can't you just finish your game in ol' DX7 Blitz3D anyway?

because I need shaders anyway, and because i want updated B3D, or MAX3D, call it whatever you like, to me is okay whatever its called long as it had B3D-ish nature...

same as Naughty Alien

same here and i need gpu powered boned animation. this is not possible with dx7. and AA. and all that fine shaderstuff. and and and ;)

After all the fuss because Max3D took ages, then disappeared, and now its back on again. And now all of a sudden some people expect it free/cheap?

Mark - any chance of that shirt off your back?

If Max3D is good then I don't have a problem paying for it. I've made a small-ish fortune out of Blitz3D in the time that I've had it, and feel I've had way more than its worth. I certainly don't feel that I should be entitled to a discount just because I bought another BRL product seven years ago.

I am with GfK. Why should it be free or discounted? I have no forseeable use for Max3D, but will gladly buy it just to support Mark.

Well I was asking Vorderman specifically, his game doesn't look like it needs shaders or gpu bone animations.

Ï would want to pay for it, it would not really make sense not to. After all, we all got to make a living, at Mark makes blitz products for a living, not just for the fun of it. Besides, the value for money is really high, so its not like you don't get your moneys worth.

I don't need shaders or other stuff for SRX (not that it looks like being finished anytime soon anyhow) but I was just slightly annoyed that I bought BMax primarily because the 3d module was supposed to be imminent, but it hasn't turned up for years.

So long as it's not too expensive I don't mind, I'll happily buy it - as zawran says, I've certainly had my moneys worth from B3D, but Bmax has been something of a disappointment (and so far a waste of money) because it feels incomplete without the 3d module, at least for what I wanted to do with it.

TBH I would buy Max3d when available, although Minib3d would be a serious contender for its easy portability from Blitz3d.

I too dont think it should be free to anybody, yeah we all bought Blitz products in the past but tbh we all got our usage out of em.

It won't be free, but I hope it won't be expensive either. BMax costs 80 bucks, but I had to pay 25% more because of stupid laws. So if Max3D costs <= 50 I will consider buying it. If it costs more I will most likely let it pass, I'm doing this for fun and not to earn a living.

But it's up to mark. He will charge what he thinks it's worth, and people will no doubt buy it. :)

As I said in another thread I am planning to use Max3D with other languages and assuming it'll be of the similar quality and stability as B3D I'd gladly pay up to $100 for it.

Barney

How can you setup the price for something none (except Mark and beta-testers) has never seen?
I think complaining about the price is pointless.
Let Mark works with his tempo.

And Mark, thank you for the worklog updates.

@degac
I guess, everyone here talking based on more than excellent list of products, came from Mark..so, pretty much everyone here, has no doubts about new stuff coming out from Mark..simple as its gets..

I'm at a complete lost for why a lot of people are so excited about this as...

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/

it's already done, many times over and it is not a free b3d update, it's a completely different engine. Also, what true showcases has there been?

And on the other hand, we have things (updates/fixes) we have no access to with old products, unlike another developing 3d engine which we have access to plenty of.
Some people posting here have made complaints about current blitz products but jump for joy on incoming new ones? No offense to mark whatsoever, as i'm in love with blitzmax and have no real beef with the products, but history tends to repeat itself.

I'm really not trying to be an ass, although I am probobly showing otherwise at this point. I'm trying to point a little something out that I see way too often.

'but history tends to repeat itself'

I think thats probably why a lot of people are excited about this, b3d was very stable and still works on 99.9% of Windows based machines to this day. I do hope history repeats itself :)

If you have found a good solution for your 3D engine then good for you, In an ideal world I would like to have a play with C# and TrueVision, but I don't have the time nor intelligence to do so :)

I'm probably speaking for a couple of people here (myself included).

I don't want to arse about downloading, installing, working out how to link this with that, registering this, linking that, changing this registry key... etc etc Just to get an enviroment where I can go:

10 Create Cube
20 Spin Cube
30 Display Cube
40 Goto 20

All I want is a single installation, fire it up type in a bit of code and it 'just works', no buggering about with anything.

I appreicate there are people who like to tinker with settings, tweak this etc, I however, really really really passionately don't care about stuff like that and expect stuff to work out of the box minimum fuss.

What he said ^^

[edit] er.... apart from the code sample :D

Line numbers seem so far away now :o)

Sorry Dave...

10 Rem *** Cube Spinner ***
20 Let C = CreateCube
30 SpinObject(C)
40 Print At 10,10; C
50 If Inkey$ <> "" Then Goto 70
60 Goto 30
70 End

Better?

I will be a max3d client... Will buy it as soon as it comes out (hell, I would even buy an alpha version or early adopter release with half of its features under development) and help as much as I can to test it. I have made some money out of my 2d game with bmax, I don't really see a reason not to invest in BRL technology again. As long as it supports blitzmax (or python) my Mac for development I am happy.

Other than a strong 3d engine, I only have one other wish for blitzmax:

- Better networking support (from BRL!) for real time games (I am happy with gnet / sockets support for turn based games).

PLS

I'll probably buy it even though I'll probably never use it. I'm not a programmer and have little interest in actual programming. But I do think BRL is worth supporting.

Yay another update...

Personally i like syncmods a lot as it just feels right for the tool. I have really no intention of installing SVN so i hope that there also will be regular updates on the site for those who won't.

Hmm i always thought that you'll have to pay for the 3d module, never read that it should be for free. Anyway if the 3d engine works, is well designed and reasonable priced i'll definately buy it.

I'm not too keen on all this SVN setting up too
A "Check for udpates" option in the IDE would be very nice
Just about every app/game has this feature now

You aren't required to svn for official updates. The svn is basically a live-update system for small, possibly unstable patches.

brl-wise, you really aren't missing anything big from the svn.