Are computers changing our brains?
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Are computers changing our brains? what do you's think ?
I think her book isn't selling very well. I don't know about physical changes, but I'm convinced people are losing the ability to distinguish reality from computer creations. They believe anything that spews from a computer. If a climate model says there is runaway global warming then it must be true. Pay no attention to the actual weather.
On a more trivial note there used to be a system using electronic sensors embedded in tennis courts. If they detected, say, a service fault there was an annoying beep. Everyone hated this. The new system is to take the sensor data and produce a hastily generated CGI animation. Now people think this is totally convincing.
On a more trivial note there used to be a system using electronic sensors embedded in tennis courts. If they detected, say, a service fault there was an annoying beep. Everyone hated this. The new system is to take the sensor data and produce a hastily generated CGI animation. Now people think this is totally convincing.
Good! we (humans) havent done a real good job of thinking before they came along so lets give it a go :)
Yeah!!!, dopamine man.. its wicked!
I think in computer languages when i am heavily involved in a project for more than 16 hours a day.
Not constantly but for silly little logic situations, I think about how i would achieve it in code:
eg:
Yeah!!!, dopamine man.. its wicked!
I think in computer languages when i am heavily involved in a project for more than 16 hours a day.
Not constantly but for silly little logic situations, I think about how i would achieve it in code:
eg:
"If hungry goshop() if money > price food=buy() endif"and
"if food eat(food):food=0:hungry=0" I need help dont i? :D from the article:
"People who spend many hours a day in front of computer screens and televisions, she warns, are going through an unprecedented process in which the brain is churning out and consuming excessive amounts of a natural chemical called dopamine."
i didn't know that watching tv was the same as using a computer.
(edited)
"People who spend many hours a day in front of computer screens and televisions, she warns, are going through an unprecedented process in which the brain is churning out and consuming excessive amounts of a natural chemical called dopamine."
i didn't know that watching tv was the same as using a computer.
(edited)
LOL, I remember Pati. He had a phrase about good food and potatoes. :)
I started playing at age 3 with a C64 and made my first complex game in GWBasic at age 10, and while growing I noticed visible advantages in various disciplines over my fellows which were unaware of computer science (back then many considered computers to be in the same league of pornography, and I'm not joking about it). Nowadays it is harder to notice since the diffusion of personal computers, but is a scientifical proven fact as well.
Computers stimulate logic and spatial perception, and can span to other areas as well (narrative and music) within an interactive environment. It surely changes how a child think, for the better. Surely the brain being a chemical electrostimulated machine, albeit extremely complex, also changes in the progress.
This scientist is suggesting that high brain activity potentially changes a person to the worst (which is like saying that leaving a child without advanced scholar education is positive). This concept applies outside computer environments as well. Experience tells me people who had parents without a good cultural background often end up in losing their reflective attitude and avoiding studies, and more prone to violent behaviour as well.
The biggest crime to a child in my opinion are parents who don't stimulate their son/daughter into exploring all fields of art and science, and computers are an amazing aid to make things interesting.
Childs are often defined 'innocent' because their mind is still unbiased and not influenced by the overwhelming reality around them. Their synaptic constructs are just in the making, and what they learn forges their personality way stronger than later in life... that's why, for example, it is so easy to teach languages to a child. As a parent, an open minded guidance without prejudices is essential, and in such hands computers are wonderful instruments which can delve into any art or science in an entertaining form. Who don't properly stimulate curiosity in their children in the early days could even ruin the true potential of their child, and never know.
She says of not being a techno-luddite, but as many persons from his generation ends up getting a grasp of the subject without intimately understanding its core, and ultimately the unknown produces fear. The irony is that this happens for the very same reason I was describing earlier... as a child, she grown up in a world without computers and where the greatest contemporary achievement in technology was the atomic bomb, the worst nightmare of humanity, which leads inevitably to suspicion on the application of technology in everyday environments.
Computers stimulate logic and spatial perception, and can span to other areas as well (narrative and music) within an interactive environment. It surely changes how a child think, for the better. Surely the brain being a chemical electrostimulated machine, albeit extremely complex, also changes in the progress.
This scientist is suggesting that high brain activity potentially changes a person to the worst (which is like saying that leaving a child without advanced scholar education is positive). This concept applies outside computer environments as well. Experience tells me people who had parents without a good cultural background often end up in losing their reflective attitude and avoiding studies, and more prone to violent behaviour as well.
The biggest crime to a child in my opinion are parents who don't stimulate their son/daughter into exploring all fields of art and science, and computers are an amazing aid to make things interesting.
Childs are often defined 'innocent' because their mind is still unbiased and not influenced by the overwhelming reality around them. Their synaptic constructs are just in the making, and what they learn forges their personality way stronger than later in life... that's why, for example, it is so easy to teach languages to a child. As a parent, an open minded guidance without prejudices is essential, and in such hands computers are wonderful instruments which can delve into any art or science in an entertaining form. Who don't properly stimulate curiosity in their children in the early days could even ruin the true potential of their child, and never know.
She says of not being a techno-luddite, but as many persons from his generation ends up getting a grasp of the subject without intimately understanding its core, and ultimately the unknown produces fear. The irony is that this happens for the very same reason I was describing earlier... as a child, she grown up in a world without computers and where the greatest contemporary achievement in technology was the atomic bomb, the worst nightmare of humanity, which leads inevitably to suspicion on the application of technology in everyday environments.
LOL, I remember Pati. He had a phrase about good food and potatoes. :)
"All good food does not include potatoes" Yeah that's the one. :)
patisawesome wasn't it? I loved that guy, heh.
"Level one is a door. I have now deleted the door, and i have a door frame and a handle."
About the animation they have for the tennis courts. I've saw this many times getting the call wrong. Don't know why the umpire doesn't just watch the TV replay...
Computers ARE making people lazier. It may help with time consuming tasks, but i strongly believe people are getting fatter because of computers as well. Recently an official of some sort came out and said, wait for it:
"It was commonly believed that a lack of exercise was to blame for the nation's expanding waistline. Now we know this is not the case, after tests, and polls on the public, we have discovered there is NO link between not exercising and people getting fatter"
Not his exact words, but pretty close. What a load of bull#&*% eh? I hate the fact opinion polls now represent the majorties opinion.
Ask 1000 people outside a health club if smoking should be banned, and a good majority will agree.
Ask 1000 people outside a bookies/pub, and the result won't be so clear cut.
I would say that it is the media in general that is changing the way people think, more than computers.
"Level one is a door. I have now deleted the door, and i have a door frame and a handle."
About the animation they have for the tennis courts. I've saw this many times getting the call wrong. Don't know why the umpire doesn't just watch the TV replay...
Computers ARE making people lazier. It may help with time consuming tasks, but i strongly believe people are getting fatter because of computers as well. Recently an official of some sort came out and said, wait for it:
"It was commonly believed that a lack of exercise was to blame for the nation's expanding waistline. Now we know this is not the case, after tests, and polls on the public, we have discovered there is NO link between not exercising and people getting fatter"
Not his exact words, but pretty close. What a load of bull#&*% eh? I hate the fact opinion polls now represent the majorties opinion.
Ask 1000 people outside a health club if smoking should be banned, and a good majority will agree.
Ask 1000 people outside a bookies/pub, and the result won't be so clear cut.
I would say that it is the media in general that is changing the way people think, more than computers.
Lol, no wasnt me. funny thread though.
q: "patisawesome" This all seems to be for your "StormDimension" FPS project (Realistic Lighting/Acid/First Person Cam/Collision Detection/Gravity/FullScreen/Greate Models!)
....That's a complex project. How far have you got?
a: There's 137 rows not counting "End".
IF help=0
help_needed()
EndIf
Lol Classic :D
q: "patisawesome" This all seems to be for your "StormDimension" FPS project (Realistic Lighting/Acid/First Person Cam/Collision Detection/Gravity/FullScreen/Greate Models!)
....That's a complex project. How far have you got?
a: There's 137 rows not counting "End".
IF help=0
help_needed()
EndIf
Lol Classic :D
IF help=0
help_needed()
EndIf
I remember that now! :D
I say WE are changing our brains, and our brains are not our minds, and we're making it look as though our brains are being changed by external influences, so that we can remain unconscious. Not only are we not a brain and our mind is beyond the brain and we are not a body, we are also not at the effect of the external world.
I say WE are changing our brains, and our brains are not our minds, and we're making it look as though our brains are being changed by external influences, so that we can remain unconscious. Not only are we not a brain and our mind is beyond the brain and we are not a body, we are also not at the effect of the external world.
That makes no sense at all. I say WE are changing our brains, and our brains are not our minds, and we're making it look as though our brains are being changed by external influences, so that we can remain unconscious. Not only are we not a brain and our mind is beyond the brain and we are not a body, we are also not at the effect of the external world.
Have you been smoking together with Nebula? :P
Computers are really spreading through the general population since the early 80's so they are with us for the last 25 years. Let's say we choose only persons who were ten at the beginning of that period. Let's also assume they've been using computers extensively i.e. 8+ hours a day. They are now having kids of their own. It would be interesting to see if any such child shows any signs of inheriting the problems Susan Greenfield is talking about.
I bet nothing was and will be inherited...
This is also one of the typical misconceptions. Child is actually very bad at learning a language. Would you say that even 10 year old child is actually speaking perfectly? Of course, he/she does not. We all learn our native languages for years before we became really fluent with them. It's just that we think of the process differently than when we are learning new language as adults. Take an adult and a 5 year kid and give them a 6 months learning course in a foreign language. In most of the cases the adult will end up speaking better than the kid.
I do agree that kids can learn not two or three but many languages if they are all introduced (roughly) at the same time and very early in kid's life but it won't change the fact that the kid will take quite a few years to learn them while adult learning them in succession will still be faster.
Barney
I bet nothing was and will be inherited...
for example, it is so easy to teach languages to a child.
This is also one of the typical misconceptions. Child is actually very bad at learning a language. Would you say that even 10 year old child is actually speaking perfectly? Of course, he/she does not. We all learn our native languages for years before we became really fluent with them. It's just that we think of the process differently than when we are learning new language as adults. Take an adult and a 5 year kid and give them a 6 months learning course in a foreign language. In most of the cases the adult will end up speaking better than the kid.
I do agree that kids can learn not two or three but many languages if they are all introduced (roughly) at the same time and very early in kid's life but it won't change the fact that the kid will take quite a few years to learn them while adult learning them in succession will still be faster.
Barney
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sswift,
I remember a long time ago you ( I think it was you ) posting all these hilarious CG renders of capitan america. I was trying to find those some time back, where did you get them from?
I remember a long time ago you ( I think it was you ) posting all these hilarious CG renders of capitan america. I was trying to find those some time back, where did you get them from?
I say WE are changing our brains, and our brains are not our minds, and we're making it look as though our brains are being changed by external influences, so that we can remain unconscious. Not only are we not a brain and our mind is beyond the brain and we are not a body, we are also not at the effect of the external world.
Translation: "I'm a loony." ;)
Yep the loony fits :)
Our Brains have never exceeded their capacity variations in size/mass has not been significant in the past decade yet our understanding of things improves dramaticaly.
Its Not What you Learn Its When you Learn it that matters.
Following that concept then yes computers are changing our brain since they are static media(ie recorded/Collective Knowledge) yet we must learn with every life cycle. The amount of Knowledge passed down from Parent to Child is relational to the time spent together.
Collective Knowledge does improve the Logical Concepts/Rationalisation of the brain but Emotions overrule all actions. (Some things you cant understand until you experience them)
Yep we all Balance on the Edge of the Mighty Coin Do/Dont/Try
There comes a point when to much is told yet nothing is learnt ie experienced. This Can leave people incapable to adjust to new situations.
So I would not fear to much what computers are doing to your brain but what we are letting them store since some things in this world are best left forgotten.
Curosity Killed the Cat... :)
Our Brains have never exceeded their capacity variations in size/mass has not been significant in the past decade yet our understanding of things improves dramaticaly.
Its Not What you Learn Its When you Learn it that matters.
Following that concept then yes computers are changing our brain since they are static media(ie recorded/Collective Knowledge) yet we must learn with every life cycle. The amount of Knowledge passed down from Parent to Child is relational to the time spent together.
Collective Knowledge does improve the Logical Concepts/Rationalisation of the brain but Emotions overrule all actions. (Some things you cant understand until you experience them)
Yep we all Balance on the Edge of the Mighty Coin Do/Dont/Try
There comes a point when to much is told yet nothing is learnt ie experienced. This Can leave people incapable to adjust to new situations.
So I would not fear to much what computers are doing to your brain but what we are letting them store since some things in this world are best left forgotten.
Curosity Killed the Cat... :)
Dark Half:
The images all came from this thread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1623417&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
The thread doesn't start out with captain america, but before long everyone is making images with him.
Since half the images are gone because the thread is so old though, I uploaded the best ones, which I'd saved, here:
http://shawnswift.com/CaptainAmerica.zip
The images all came from this thread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1623417&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
The thread doesn't start out with captain america, but before long everyone is making images with him.
Since half the images are gone because the thread is so old though, I uploaded the best ones, which I'd saved, here:
http://shawnswift.com/CaptainAmerica.zip
Yup I think computers are changing our brains, how many of us reach for a calculator when doing math for programming rather than working it out in our heads. Take into consideration if there was a massive EMP problem on the planet civilisation would collapse.
a calculator? i write a simple function that does the math for me.:) and if there was an emp burst i would have a hard time entertaining my self, not being able to create my own world and all.:)
It's true I feel different already. Or could that just be the schizophrenia.
Thats true. The human race is only three power-cuts from barbarism (or one if you have a power-cut just as you are about to complete a difficult level on the game you just happen to be playing).
Humans have just become too dependant on technology. And as we develope more advanced technological gizmo's, it will become harded to adapt back to the pre-advanced techno era if they should fail ( Running out of fossil fuels comes to mind here).
Take into consideration if there was a massive EMP problem on the planet civilisation would collapse.
Thats true. The human race is only three power-cuts from barbarism (or one if you have a power-cut just as you are about to complete a difficult level on the game you just happen to be playing).
Humans have just become too dependant on technology. And as we develope more advanced technological gizmo's, it will become harded to adapt back to the pre-advanced techno era if they should fail ( Running out of fossil fuels comes to mind here).
Yup I think computers are changing our brains, how many of us reach for a calculator when doing math for programming rather than working it out in our heads. Take into consideration if there was a massive EMP problem on the planet civilisation would collapse.
I knew people which were both human calculators and utter idiots when moving outside algebra (many math professors match this problem with an excessive ego). Intelligence is the ability to find solutions to problems, not the ability to do simple and repetitive tasks in a short amount of time. Anybody with proper training can apply math by hand regardless of talent. There was a short story from A. C. Clarke where astronauts were forced to use an abacus to do ballistic calculations for the orbit (or so I remember): interesting concept, but not of sudden importance if you're on earth.
If there was a massive EMP problem civilization would collapse anyway not because of the absence of algebra geniuses, but because data nowadays is stored digitally (such as bank accounts), and also because it would affect electricity as well and with it any kind of sustainment form. if the EMP problem is big enough, our heart would collapse as well. ;)
the bit of my brain that handles numbers was underdeveloped by a lazy maths teacher
she just handed out calculators to the class on the first lesson
im that bad that instead of knowing 8+5 = 13 i start with 8 and count on my fingers !!!
i was never expecting to be a maths genious but come on now ... perhaps she was training us all to work on a checkout all they are are glorified calculators with a cashbox
she just handed out calculators to the class on the first lesson
im that bad that instead of knowing 8+5 = 13 i start with 8 and count on my fingers !!!
i was never expecting to be a maths genious but come on now ... perhaps she was training us all to work on a checkout all they are are glorified calculators with a cashbox
Nobody's opinion is worth anything at all, or means anything at all, so it really doesn't matter who agrees with whom here, or who decides to make out that one perspective is evidence of being a loony ;-) It also doesn't matter if one person thinks their opinion is somehow more justified or objective or true or shared by others, that doesn't in any way prove anything. So here we are, again, just spouting what we think is right in a big mishmash of nonsense.
It is hilarious to me how people attack things they do not understand, do not grasp or don't want to accept. I hope you feel better.
My stance is that the mind has nothing to do with the brain. The brain is just a physical expression of a few aspects of the mind where they need to translate into activities that control the body. Also I don't believe that people are really bodies, bodies are just anonymous lumps of physical matter, and when we stop animating the body upon `death` it is shown for the lifeless meaningless thing it is. It can't think for itself, it doesn't know anything, it has no power, it does not cause anything and can't even make itself ill. The mind has full power over the body.
Also my stance is that the mind is `causal`, not at the effect of anything, and nothing can happen to it except by its own hand. So the idea of being `affected by computers` is really nonsense. The mind is projecting computers and if it wasn't for the mind doing this they would not exist at all, so to think that the computer can turn around and affect the mind in return is impossible. However, some people get into a state of insanity where they identify with their bodies and think that their body is who they are, and then they set about finding things outside of the body to latch onto, and to project their issues onto, and thus disown their creative power. This usually leads to them thinking they are a victim of the world and that it is possible for things external to really affect them. Such effects are impossible, so the mind of such people decides to pretend that it's happening, `going along with` the apparent plausible side-effects and reactions that being-affected-by-things would likely produce, even though it's all an act.
I think a lot of (most) people act as passive victims to the world and think that stuff goes on outside of their choosing, which is a state of unconsciousness and unawareness. But there is another way of looking at it.
So my answer is no we are not affected by computers and computer's don't really exist. That's just my point of view and you can and will disagree with it, maybe not even seeing it as I see it.
It is hilarious to me how people attack things they do not understand, do not grasp or don't want to accept. I hope you feel better.
My stance is that the mind has nothing to do with the brain. The brain is just a physical expression of a few aspects of the mind where they need to translate into activities that control the body. Also I don't believe that people are really bodies, bodies are just anonymous lumps of physical matter, and when we stop animating the body upon `death` it is shown for the lifeless meaningless thing it is. It can't think for itself, it doesn't know anything, it has no power, it does not cause anything and can't even make itself ill. The mind has full power over the body.
Also my stance is that the mind is `causal`, not at the effect of anything, and nothing can happen to it except by its own hand. So the idea of being `affected by computers` is really nonsense. The mind is projecting computers and if it wasn't for the mind doing this they would not exist at all, so to think that the computer can turn around and affect the mind in return is impossible. However, some people get into a state of insanity where they identify with their bodies and think that their body is who they are, and then they set about finding things outside of the body to latch onto, and to project their issues onto, and thus disown their creative power. This usually leads to them thinking they are a victim of the world and that it is possible for things external to really affect them. Such effects are impossible, so the mind of such people decides to pretend that it's happening, `going along with` the apparent plausible side-effects and reactions that being-affected-by-things would likely produce, even though it's all an act.
I think a lot of (most) people act as passive victims to the world and think that stuff goes on outside of their choosing, which is a state of unconsciousness and unawareness. But there is another way of looking at it.
So my answer is no we are not affected by computers and computer's don't really exist. That's just my point of view and you can and will disagree with it, maybe not even seeing it as I see it.
imaginaryhuman you are way to smart for these forums, most people here probably have no idea what you are talking about, but I do, very nice post :)
imaginaryhuman:
Also my stance is that the mind is `causal`, not at the effect of anything, and nothing can happen to it except by its own hand. So the idea of being `affected by computers` is really nonsense. The mind is projecting computers and if it wasn't for the mind doing this they would not exist at all, so to think that the computer can turn around and affect the mind in return is impossible. However, some people get into a state of insanity where they identify with their bodies and think that their body is who they are, and then they set about finding things outside of the body to latch onto, and to project their issues onto, and thus disown their creative power. This usually leads to them thinking they are a victim of the world and that it is possible for things external to really affect them. Such effects are impossible, so the mind of such people decides to pretend that it's happening, `going along with` the apparent plausible side-effects and reactions that being-affected-by-things would likely produce, even though it's all an act.
HUH? You have soooo lost me.
Also my stance is that the mind is `causal`, not at the effect of anything, and nothing can happen to it except by its own hand. So the idea of being `affected by computers` is really nonsense. The mind is projecting computers and if it wasn't for the mind doing this they would not exist at all, so to think that the computer can turn around and affect the mind in return is impossible. However, some people get into a state of insanity where they identify with their bodies and think that their body is who they are, and then they set about finding things outside of the body to latch onto, and to project their issues onto, and thus disown their creative power. This usually leads to them thinking they are a victim of the world and that it is possible for things external to really affect them. Such effects are impossible, so the mind of such people decides to pretend that it's happening, `going along with` the apparent plausible side-effects and reactions that being-affected-by-things would likely produce, even though it's all an act.
HUH? You have soooo lost me.
class Reply { public: void SendReply() { char response[] = {"y", "o", "u", " ", "s", "u", "c", "k", "."}; } private: bool thiscoderuns = false; };
for all you who speak C++...
The mind is projecting computers and if it wasn't for the mind doing this they would not exist at all, so to think that the computer can turn around and affect the mind in return is impossible.
So my answer is no we are not affected by computers and computer's don't really exist.
So you are a solipsist? However, in your post you seem to also imply that the physical world actually exists regardless of the existence of your mind.
Nobody's opinion is worth anything at all, or means anything at all
A stance like this doesn't necessitate solipsism, but is rather much more in alignment with absolute scepticism. It is the ultimate attack on "truth" and as such very much en vogue in the post modern era. The problem with these kinds of statements is obvious - they are epistemologically self defeating. They construct a semantic snake that proceeds to swallow its own tail. The more basic example "There is no truth" makes this very clear. It is a statement that sweeps the rug out from under its own feet. You are left with nothing.
Adopting these kinds of viewpoints is anything but loony. Rather such a stance points to a deeply reflective/introspective mindset. But they are a little extreme for my tastes, in the sense that they imply a kind of certainty that I personally don't have access to, anyway.
My personal "mishmash" is that the relationship between mind and matter is a two way affair. Just ask anyone who has taken a decent dose of DMT... So I'm not prepared to summarily dismiss Greenfield's thesis. Rather, I think it is worth looking further into.
But having said that I'll say no more on this topic as these kinds of philosophical discussions and indeed, posts like this, quickly drip rather distastefully with intellectual vanity.
While I identified that opinions are all subjective, and therefore are just hallucinations, I do recognize that there is an absolute truth. It is because of that truth that the untruth of personal opinion is shown to be as meaningless as it is.
I'm not sure where exactly I implied that the physical world exists. There can easily be confusion from talking about things on different levels, but my view is the physical world is just a dream in the imagination - just a bunch of images in the mind. When the mind is clear of these images it can be aware of what it `really is`.
But anyway. Like you said David, this discussion really wanted to remain on an everyday level of chit-chat and taking it to a philosophical level is usually an inappropriate hijacking of an otherwise `nice dream about computers`. I refer you to A Course in Miracles if you are interested in metaphysics.
I'm not sure where exactly I implied that the physical world exists. There can easily be confusion from talking about things on different levels, but my view is the physical world is just a dream in the imagination - just a bunch of images in the mind. When the mind is clear of these images it can be aware of what it `really is`.
But anyway. Like you said David, this discussion really wanted to remain on an everyday level of chit-chat and taking it to a philosophical level is usually an inappropriate hijacking of an otherwise `nice dream about computers`. I refer you to A Course in Miracles if you are interested in metaphysics.
I don't think she's referring to programming ruining our problem-solving skills. Probably all of them nefarious games us programmers make that are making us dumb.
Nobody's opinion is worth anything at all, or means anything at all
I'm not saying this to be sarcastic, but in all seriousness, if that is your attitude, why post at all? @ImaginaryHuman - You, no doubt, produce a great range of bespoke royal attire too.
Doesn't everything we do change our brains?
Doesn't everything we do change our brains?
..my brain rapidly change, as well as something else, when i see good chick..computer? I dont think so..its crappy bunch of silicon and wires and it will remain that for me..just a nice tool to have..no more, no less..
John. if that's my attitude, and if the entire world has no meaning, then why indeed are we here doing anything at all? It's a very good question to ask because the answer is that we would return to our real home in Oneness if we realized how there is nothing in the world of value. I'm just pointing out what I think is true, but I still partly believe in the ego and its insane world so I still write posts - or think I do ;-)
The mind is in the brain. Without a brain you wouldn't have a mind. You couldn't walk talk or do ANYTHINg. So, the brain controls the mind. It's just most people aren't in touch with what's happening in their. It's amazing what people can do when they learn about themselves, and learn to control their mind.
im off sick today so went back to bed after calling in
and in the end had some vivvid dreams
my brothers tom cat died last month and i dreamed i was with his 2 cats and 2 dogs, i saw the tom and knew he was dead but gave him as much fuss and attention as i could, normally when i know im dreaming i wake up, i was kinda willing myself to stay asleep in this 'petting zoo' making up for lost time with them as they are in the other end of the country
another had me in a patchwork of different land marks i associated with parts of my life and i had to call the police due to this blind womans husband going mental in the street and gave very accurate directions to this fictictious street behind this cinema converted to pub that was NEVER next to these other buildings
and they say (allegedly) that we use only 10% of our brain for memories motor controll the id and everything else the rest remains (allegedly) a mistery to science kinda like having a 1tb hard drive when you will only ever fill a dvd's worth of info in 80 years
and in the end had some vivvid dreams
my brothers tom cat died last month and i dreamed i was with his 2 cats and 2 dogs, i saw the tom and knew he was dead but gave him as much fuss and attention as i could, normally when i know im dreaming i wake up, i was kinda willing myself to stay asleep in this 'petting zoo' making up for lost time with them as they are in the other end of the country
another had me in a patchwork of different land marks i associated with parts of my life and i had to call the police due to this blind womans husband going mental in the street and gave very accurate directions to this fictictious street behind this cinema converted to pub that was NEVER next to these other buildings
and they say (allegedly) that we use only 10% of our brain for memories motor controll the id and everything else the rest remains (allegedly) a mistery to science kinda like having a 1tb hard drive when you will only ever fill a dvd's worth of info in 80 years
Alot of stuff stored in the brain gets lost because the connections aren't strengthened. The brains way of forgetting useless information i guess. Alot of people say that the other 90% of the brain will come with evolution. Mind reading and such, and that brains will soon communicate with each other eventually.
Could be a confusing world!
Could be a confusing world!
So, the brain controls the mind.
its not the brain that controls the mind, its the will, desires, wishes and your fears that control you and your mind.
Who's will, desires, wishes and fears are we talking about here, well that is real question here ;) AND I bet you that you have no idea whos will and wishes you and your brain and rest of the body are executing :)
If you understand and find the answer you will be closer to the thruth about universe and existance ;)
the answer is that we would return to our real home in Oneness if
we realized how there is nothing in the world of value.
we realized how there is nothing in the world of value.
@ImaginaryHuman
Welcome to the desert of real brother, where the illusions are plenty and neverending ;) Its a dream, but rest of them here is not aware of it nor do they wish to be awakend yet, but everyone eventually will reach higher awareness and recognize what they are not even ready to acknoledge today that there is higher thruth and our physical existanse... Today or in million years, they will get there when they are ready...
As Coolio puts it, see you when you get there...
Have you read the book Awakend Dreams?
If not I recommend it, it's very good inspiring reading...
..I agreed with Maximo...your brain bussy is just a hardware..and thats all about it..what is stored in and how it is managed, has nothing to do with brain itself...example was tests with Michael Schumacher and dozen truck drivers and house wifes...guess what came out..speed of impulses and time to react on to same thing, given as a task, was identical..what does matter is obviously, how you manage this thing..and thats not brain for sure..its your 'software', or better say, your real you..graphics on my 8800GT can look outstanding or worse than C64...its how I manage given resources, not that resources do it for you...
To suggest that the body, or a part of it, determines your experiences, is actually backwards. You tell your body what to tell you. And then you forget that you did that - that's the funny part.
As to whose will you're willing, either you will the will of the One or you have unconscious wishful thinking.
I guess if you believe that the brain creates the mind and is within it, then you have to follow on to conclude that when your body dies that's the end of you. Otherwise you are immortal.
As to whose will you're willing, either you will the will of the One or you have unconscious wishful thinking.
I guess if you believe that the brain creates the mind and is within it, then you have to follow on to conclude that when your body dies that's the end of you. Otherwise you are immortal.
The mind has full power over the body.
Try putting your hand over a flame. What has full power now?
To me the mind is a combination of body and brain. Nothing more.
ImaginaryHuman, has anyone ever told you that you sound a lot like David Icke? I consider your beliefs to be rather... quirky, but I do enjoy reading your "magical thinking" posts.
"The mind" is a product of biological processes that take place in the brain. The brain is a physical object that is part of the body. That's my take.
"The mind" is a product of biological processes that take place in the brain. The brain is a physical object that is part of the body. That's my take.
I like JustLuke. He doesn't believe in "Magical Thinking", God and is die hard science driven yet he wants to write a Fantasy Novel.
JustLuke, no you're the first to make that comparison ;-)
A definition for magic: Anything which changes the form in order to create an appearance of a solution to a problem, but which does not actually address or undo the underlying issue.
You could say that anything you do in the world is magical, including taking medicine, using a car to get to a destination, eating food to solve hunger, changing the weather, etc. All these things seem to solve practical problems of form but they don't solve the problem of identifying with the ego or thinking that the world is real. We actually just move the furniture around, create different arrangements of it, and call it progress.
A definition for magic: Anything which changes the form in order to create an appearance of a solution to a problem, but which does not actually address or undo the underlying issue.
You could say that anything you do in the world is magical, including taking medicine, using a car to get to a destination, eating food to solve hunger, changing the weather, etc. All these things seem to solve practical problems of form but they don't solve the problem of identifying with the ego or thinking that the world is real. We actually just move the furniture around, create different arrangements of it, and call it progress.
or thinking that the world is real
Are you implying that it isn't? A definition for magic: [snip] eating food to solve hunger
now im imagining harry potter working in the back of burger king :))
For anyone who disbelieves in Magical Thinking Please explain why if I were living in the quantum world I could have a bowl of Spacial Black holes for breakfast, fart a couple of Supernovas, have a bath in the center of the Sun and go to work in a rabbits foot.
We are simply living in a layer of control and beneath that layer of control anything is possible.
Go read up on what goes on in the quantum world.
I also believe that the human brain does not store any info but is mearly a link to the information.
We are simply living in a layer of control and beneath that layer of control anything is possible.
Go read up on what goes on in the quantum world.
I also believe that the human brain does not store any info but is mearly a link to the information.
Amon: Spacial awareness is for another topic me thinks.
Ask 1000 people outside a bookies/pub, and the result won't be so clear cut.
Yeah. That's not how you do a poll tho'. You need a representative section of the public. I would say that it is the media in general that is changing the way people think, more than computers.
Agreed. Yup I think computers are changing our brains, how many of us reach for a calculator when doing math for programming rather than working it out in our heads.
Which is most important? The ability to do simple algebra in your head, or the ability to solve complex problems? It's interesting that when I was at Uni, the Chinese exchange students would be very good at math first in the semester (when the ability to memorize logarithmic tables was an asset) but fail horribly later on (when the ability to solve differential equations was an asset). They simply couldn't do it, and not because they're lazier or more stupid than Europeans. Take into consideration if there was a massive EMP problem on the planet civilisation would collapse.
Nope. Just the nations whose economies rely on computers and don't have a sufficiently effective EMP shield. 3rd world countries probably wouldn't even notice. A definition for magic:
Here is another one, this time from Arthur C. Clarke: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Guess what the human body is? Amon wrote:
There's a difference between fact and fiction, Amon. This being the case, I'm not sure I follow your logic. To clarify my position: I consider science to be an extremely tedious and mundane subject (I'm more interested in stuff like Taoism and Existentialism) but unfortunately reality doesn't conform to either my preferences or my interests. Which neatly brings me back to that whole fact/fiction difference thing.
I like JustLuke. He doesn't believe in "Magical Thinking", God and is die hard science driven yet he wants to write a Fantasy Novel.
There's a difference between fact and fiction, Amon. This being the case, I'm not sure I follow your logic. To clarify my position: I consider science to be an extremely tedious and mundane subject (I'm more interested in stuff like Taoism and Existentialism) but unfortunately reality doesn't conform to either my preferences or my interests. Which neatly brings me back to that whole fact/fiction difference thing.
Gfk:
>>or thinking that the world is real
>Are you implying that it isn't?
Yes. The world is not real.
Reality must be continuous, constant, consistent, stable, and put in place by `That which Is`. This world is the exact opposite of that. It is not real. Yes I'm implying God did not create the world at all. We made it up in our minds to convince ourselves that it's real, to avoid the guilt of thinking we separated from our Source. We denied it and projected it in the form of the universe. The universe is entirely focussed on the form of error.
If we need to get all `sciencey` again, Quantum Physics also suggests that the entire universe cannot possibly exist.
>>or thinking that the world is real
>Are you implying that it isn't?
Yes. The world is not real.
Reality must be continuous, constant, consistent, stable, and put in place by `That which Is`. This world is the exact opposite of that. It is not real. Yes I'm implying God did not create the world at all. We made it up in our minds to convince ourselves that it's real, to avoid the guilt of thinking we separated from our Source. We denied it and projected it in the form of the universe. The universe is entirely focussed on the form of error.
If we need to get all `sciencey` again, Quantum Physics also suggests that the entire universe cannot possibly exist.
so how come the world is percieved to be the same by 6 billion people all at the same time. if i see a cat and the guy in the congo jungle saw a cat we would both be able to describe the same thing. now your probably going to say cause we came from a oneness, but if we came from a oneness then why did we invent a stupid world were there is pain and suffering? if i'm linked to you and two heads are better than one then why am i still learning to program?
this is getting deep - lol
It gets deeper. :-)
It's a single dream dreamed by a single dreamer, who has associated themselves with aspects of the dream enough to identify themselves as being part OF the dream, dreamed BY something other than themselves. You went from being the dreamer of the dream to beleiving the dream was able to dream you, so that you could be unconscious and so that you could believe the dream is real.
If you would remember you were the original dreamer you would wake up. And indeed the creation of this dream of pain and suffering is pointless, meaningless egotism. All forms of suffering are a tool to create a sense of separation from that which is whole, because all suffering is based on separation. How do you push Oneness away, if not to deny everything about it? Separation is an anti-thesis to Oneness and results in every form of different and contrast imaginable, which is what the world is.
Also because we believe we are parts of the dream, ie bodies, we are not aware that we actually share one mind and one set of holy thoughts. Most `people's minds` are sufficiently believing in separation enough that they shut out all communication between them. Otherwise you would have full access to common knowledge.
And as to why we all see the same world, we don't. It can only be seen clearly and objectively when it is seen from a viewpoint that would only permit perception of a world of Oneness, not the divided world. You cannot look upon a world of separation in its entirity, only partially, and thus subjectively. I see a cat, but I don't see it the same way that you do, and I don't see the same things `in it` that you do, and it doesn't mean the same to me as it does to you.
There is no objective world, it's just a world of the illusion of consistency, but actually is totally meaningless and insane. Two people partially sharing a subjective viewpoint does not make it an objective reality. There can only be a single shared reality where sharing and openness are the foundation for that reality, ie in Oneness, which is not of this world. Nobody on this planet sees the world through the same eyes or in the same way, we all experience a personal isolated reality colored by our own imaginings. Until people wake up and remember what is True and realize that this world is a total lie, they will believe in its value.
But anyway, we're way off-track of the original topic now ;-D
It's a single dream dreamed by a single dreamer, who has associated themselves with aspects of the dream enough to identify themselves as being part OF the dream, dreamed BY something other than themselves. You went from being the dreamer of the dream to beleiving the dream was able to dream you, so that you could be unconscious and so that you could believe the dream is real.
If you would remember you were the original dreamer you would wake up. And indeed the creation of this dream of pain and suffering is pointless, meaningless egotism. All forms of suffering are a tool to create a sense of separation from that which is whole, because all suffering is based on separation. How do you push Oneness away, if not to deny everything about it? Separation is an anti-thesis to Oneness and results in every form of different and contrast imaginable, which is what the world is.
Also because we believe we are parts of the dream, ie bodies, we are not aware that we actually share one mind and one set of holy thoughts. Most `people's minds` are sufficiently believing in separation enough that they shut out all communication between them. Otherwise you would have full access to common knowledge.
And as to why we all see the same world, we don't. It can only be seen clearly and objectively when it is seen from a viewpoint that would only permit perception of a world of Oneness, not the divided world. You cannot look upon a world of separation in its entirity, only partially, and thus subjectively. I see a cat, but I don't see it the same way that you do, and I don't see the same things `in it` that you do, and it doesn't mean the same to me as it does to you.
There is no objective world, it's just a world of the illusion of consistency, but actually is totally meaningless and insane. Two people partially sharing a subjective viewpoint does not make it an objective reality. There can only be a single shared reality where sharing and openness are the foundation for that reality, ie in Oneness, which is not of this world. Nobody on this planet sees the world through the same eyes or in the same way, we all experience a personal isolated reality colored by our own imaginings. Until people wake up and remember what is True and realize that this world is a total lie, they will believe in its value.
But anyway, we're way off-track of the original topic now ;-D
hehe, great post ImaginaryHuman, me and you is the same man, I thought up those thoughts eons ago and you posted it now, thanks my brother, I mean thanks to me, it's all me.
Now I have to get back to working on Max3D as Mark Sibly and release it before the community goes nuts.
Now I have to get back to working on Max3D as Mark Sibly and release it before the community goes nuts.
so how come the world is percieved to be the same by 6 billion people all at the same time. if i see a cat and the guy in the congo jungle saw a cat we would both be able to describe the same thing. now your probably going to say cause we came from a oneness, but if we came from a oneness then why did we invent a stupid world were there is pain and suffering? if i'm linked to you and two heads are better than one then why am i still learning to program?
If you have eons and eons of Oneness where everything is perfect, even perfection gets bored and starts to descend down in the lower words, that is where we are now. Once you get down, there is no easy way up, you have to evolve back to that which you de-volved from.
So simply put God which is not person but the whole oneness is expressing it self thru us and thru these lower worlds. Oneness is creative and it has had it's timeless moment of perfection and meditation on how it is to be perfect, now it wants to learn new things, to explore and to express. These forces are what put us here, and what created the world and the universe.
Ofcourse the strongest force in the universe is Love (attraction) and that is why one day it will all merge again to one, and the whole process will continue to repeat. We will never stop this because that is the nature of Oneness, circular movment. IN and Out, Around and Around.
I would say that it is the media in general that is changing the way people think, more than computers.
Maybe, but you are confusing with changing the brain and changing how we think about issues.ImaginaryHuman, I have looked into the way the brain works (or what we know about it) in great detail, and if you don't believe that the physical state of the brain has any effect upon the mind, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
..physical body is just 'a suit' for this materialistic world and nothing else..to identify yourself with piece of 'meat' is worst self degradation I heard about..
It is not important whether the body/brain has an effect on the mind. By the time you're studying the ways that the body affects the mind you have already skipped over a very important and very overlooked part of what happens: Before the body can do anything the mind decides what the body is going to experience, and THEN the body turns around and seems to tell the mind what to experience. But by that time the mind already KNOWS what the experience is, because the mind created it in the first place. So the body actually isn't telling the mind anything it doesn't already know and experience.
The mind projects a world `out there`, projects a body `out there`, projects a `you` into the body, animates the entire world and every reaction that the body could seem to have to that world, tell the body what to act out and then the body appears to tell the mind what's going on in the world. But the mind doesn't listen to the body and the body doesn't really affect it at all. The body's messages fall on deaf ears because the mind has already created all of the symptoms and experiences and perceptions prior to telling the body to reflect it. Projection makes perception, perception does not make experience. It just happens that the messages the body is appearing to tell the mind match up with the messages that the mind told the body already, so you *think* that it looks like the body is telling the mind what to do, but it isn't. It is a very convincing but very subtle oversight.
I appreciate, Czar, that you really believe in whatever research you have performed or whatever conclusions you've come to. However, at what point in your research did you decide that what you were researching was true? When did you become convinced? More to the point, why didn't you become convinced sooner or later? Even more to the point, apparently you give your conviction to the research when you decide `oh this looks like a good time`, or when you feel it is justified, completely irrelevant to what the research is saying or how much you have gotten into it. The fact remains that *you decide* what to believe is true regardless of what the research is saying, and you decide when to decide, based on your beliefs, which you have chosen. So the research is meaningless and pointless and is really just a big cover up. It's a way for you to believe that something outside of you is determining what is true and that you are merely `going along with it` because of its seeming plausibility. But the fact is that only when you have made the research go through enough hoops and hurdles to create a convincing enough `show`, which you put on to make it look like you really are being affected by the research, only THEN do you decide to make your move and commit to believing it, because then you can blame the conviction on the evidence and claim that the evidence decided for you in an objective and separate manner. Yet the truth is that you still gave your free will decision to believe it was true entirely separately from what the research was saying, and all the evidence in the world is just a prop for you to act out a drama of justifying how everything works. You don't really believe the research about the brain or the body, you just want to use it as a way to stay asleep and to keep pretending that you do not have a free choice, because if you remembered that you had a choice you would have to admit that you created the body and the brain and then you'd remember that you choose poorly by creating the entire world and then you'd remember that it is not real and you'd wake up and remember none of this even happened, because it's impossible.
How could Oneness ever become separated? It can't. This world is an impossible insane dream and to believe in it is to be insane, because believing in it means that you believe Oneness can be altered or fragmented, which it cannot. Insisting that it can, when it cannot, is insanity, which is what this entire world is founded upon. This whole world is an attempt to justify an impossible wishful thought that separation can be achieved. It can't. Even science is now telling you that everything is connected and nothing is every really separate, and that even atoms and photons share the same existence.
The mind projects a world `out there`, projects a body `out there`, projects a `you` into the body, animates the entire world and every reaction that the body could seem to have to that world, tell the body what to act out and then the body appears to tell the mind what's going on in the world. But the mind doesn't listen to the body and the body doesn't really affect it at all. The body's messages fall on deaf ears because the mind has already created all of the symptoms and experiences and perceptions prior to telling the body to reflect it. Projection makes perception, perception does not make experience. It just happens that the messages the body is appearing to tell the mind match up with the messages that the mind told the body already, so you *think* that it looks like the body is telling the mind what to do, but it isn't. It is a very convincing but very subtle oversight.
I appreciate, Czar, that you really believe in whatever research you have performed or whatever conclusions you've come to. However, at what point in your research did you decide that what you were researching was true? When did you become convinced? More to the point, why didn't you become convinced sooner or later? Even more to the point, apparently you give your conviction to the research when you decide `oh this looks like a good time`, or when you feel it is justified, completely irrelevant to what the research is saying or how much you have gotten into it. The fact remains that *you decide* what to believe is true regardless of what the research is saying, and you decide when to decide, based on your beliefs, which you have chosen. So the research is meaningless and pointless and is really just a big cover up. It's a way for you to believe that something outside of you is determining what is true and that you are merely `going along with it` because of its seeming plausibility. But the fact is that only when you have made the research go through enough hoops and hurdles to create a convincing enough `show`, which you put on to make it look like you really are being affected by the research, only THEN do you decide to make your move and commit to believing it, because then you can blame the conviction on the evidence and claim that the evidence decided for you in an objective and separate manner. Yet the truth is that you still gave your free will decision to believe it was true entirely separately from what the research was saying, and all the evidence in the world is just a prop for you to act out a drama of justifying how everything works. You don't really believe the research about the brain or the body, you just want to use it as a way to stay asleep and to keep pretending that you do not have a free choice, because if you remembered that you had a choice you would have to admit that you created the body and the brain and then you'd remember that you choose poorly by creating the entire world and then you'd remember that it is not real and you'd wake up and remember none of this even happened, because it's impossible.
How could Oneness ever become separated? It can't. This world is an impossible insane dream and to believe in it is to be insane, because believing in it means that you believe Oneness can be altered or fragmented, which it cannot. Insisting that it can, when it cannot, is insanity, which is what this entire world is founded upon. This whole world is an attempt to justify an impossible wishful thought that separation can be achieved. It can't. Even science is now telling you that everything is connected and nothing is every really separate, and that even atoms and photons share the same existence.
I think we sleaped a lot more before computers and TV.. So it has inpact on brain staying awaken :) Also why shold we use the brain so much at all. let computer do the work. Human is not made to think !!
because if you remembered that you had a choice you would have to admit that you created the body and the brain and then you'd remember that you choose poorly by creating the entire world and then you'd remember that it is not real and you'd wake up and remember none of this even happened, because it's impossible.
I think you are getting to heavy and deep on these guys, most of them have no idea what we are talking about :D
It's not only computers that changes our brain.
Normally all the brain's basic job is is to survive.
Because we all live in a very safe enviroment compared to animals we do not have to think about survival every second of the day.
So when we started to live in a safer enviroment we had time left to use the brain for science to make our lives even safer and easier.
The downside of it all is that in most cases we forget the survival skills because we don't need them at this moment. If someone from the city got lost in the jungle, there will be a slim chance he wil survive, even tho the jungle is natures biggest food resource.
I see the computer as a way to experience other worlds without having to leave the safe enviroment and as a great tool to learn, communicate and to be artistic. It's just 1 tool which fills in most of our needs because of this.
Normally all the brain's basic job is is to survive.
Because we all live in a very safe enviroment compared to animals we do not have to think about survival every second of the day.
So when we started to live in a safer enviroment we had time left to use the brain for science to make our lives even safer and easier.
The downside of it all is that in most cases we forget the survival skills because we don't need them at this moment. If someone from the city got lost in the jungle, there will be a slim chance he wil survive, even tho the jungle is natures biggest food resource.
I see the computer as a way to experience other worlds without having to leave the safe enviroment and as a great tool to learn, communicate and to be artistic. It's just 1 tool which fills in most of our needs because of this.
maximo wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else but I understand just fine. These spiritual theories are not complex, they're simplistic and, well, nuts. It's amusing to read about them online but if I was alone in a room with a guy spouting off this sort of nonsense I'd feel pretty uncomfortable. Actually, no, it's not amusing - it's saddening.
I think you are getting to heavy and deep on these guys, most of them have no idea what we are talking about :D
I can't speak for anyone else but I understand just fine. These spiritual theories are not complex, they're simplistic and, well, nuts. It's amusing to read about them online but if I was alone in a room with a guy spouting off this sort of nonsense I'd feel pretty uncomfortable. Actually, no, it's not amusing - it's saddening.
Actually, no, it's not amusing - it's saddening.
Neo - Wake up and see the reallity for what it is, welcome to the desert of real!
Erm, ok. Thanks. I'll do that. ;)
"Before the body can do anything the mind decides what the body is going to experience"
@ImaginaryHuman, ever heard of reflex arc ?
talking about dreams (sorry i decided to skim any post that was more than a paragraph ... least not till ive had a drink or a bottle)
when i dream i sometimes see faces of people that i dont know and maybe have never met, perhaps i passed them on the street and my subconcious took a snapshot for later use
yet i often wonder, when i wake up do these other people dissapear or are they other dreamers drifting through the same salvador dali landscape and other irregular almost bizzaro world architeture [sp]
when i do dream of people i know i never end up having an "i had the same dream as you" convo, perhaps like me they just dismissed it as a dream featuring me/them
when i dream i sometimes see faces of people that i dont know and maybe have never met, perhaps i passed them on the street and my subconcious took a snapshot for later use
yet i often wonder, when i wake up do these other people dissapear or are they other dreamers drifting through the same salvador dali landscape and other irregular almost bizzaro world architeture [sp]
when i do dream of people i know i never end up having an "i had the same dream as you" convo, perhaps like me they just dismissed it as a dream featuring me/them
Maximo you're right about this not really being the place to discuss this.
JustLuke what is it that makes you sad about these things?
JustLuke what is it that makes you sad about these things?
ImaginaryHuman-Haha! Just stop talking crazy and wake up and smell REALITY. If you were really projecting things, i wouldn't exist because you'd be all alone, walking on blackness/whiteness.
JustLuke-what does make you sad? I feel kind of weird with imaginaryhuman spilling all this nonsense out,but I'm not sad.Just don't let the nonsense get you down.
JustLuke-what does make you sad? I feel kind of weird with imaginaryhuman spilling all this nonsense out,but I'm not sad.Just don't let the nonsense get you down.
If you were really projecting things, i wouldn't exist because you'd be all alone, walking on blackness/whiteness.
bravo you got that one right ;) you are correct there is only but one being in the whole universe or existance, it pours into each of us and into each thing that has taken shape, it has create the shape and physical universe so it can express it self. To make it easier for you to understand, this being is bored being perfect and it wants to experience something less perfect, and right now in your body it is experiencing what is to be human and laugh at another human trying to remind it where it actually came and what it all means ;)
its funny, you are laughing at your self, I'm sure it's hard to understand and it's scary and saddening thought that is why your mind calls it bullshit because if you accepted it as thruth it could even destroy your Ego, and we would not want that, Ego keeps you chained down to planet earth ;)
It doesn't matter how great your ideas are, or how right you are, if you communicate your ideas poorly then nobody will listen or understand. ImaginaryHuman, I'm afraid you have poor communication skills. Reading your mini-essays feels like poking my eyes out. I can almost feel the knowledge escaping from my brain.
lol Good for you.
People will read into whatever I say using whatever they want to turn my words into, and inevitably will read back what they themselves have written there, so we're all just talking to ourselves anyway and I'm not trying to get anyone to grasp anything.
But anyway, it's probably time to wrap up this thread and move on.
People will read into whatever I say using whatever they want to turn my words into, and inevitably will read back what they themselves have written there, so we're all just talking to ourselves anyway and I'm not trying to get anyone to grasp anything.
But anyway, it's probably time to wrap up this thread and move on.
ImaginaryHuman should do a blog ! :)
ImaginaryHuman talking sense...its ridicilous to claim that we are just piece of meat..even language itself, when you talking about some parts of body you say 'my hand', 'my head','my brain' .. that MY you pointing on to?? What?? Exactly part ImaginaryHuman talking about..
you know what?i'm not gonna listem to this weird stuff.Forget you.You just are gonna gang up on me like the weirdo religious freaks you are.Goodbye, crazies.And I don't even want to get what you are talking about.
EDIT:wait a sec, are you a WICKEN?!
EDIT:wait a sec, are you a WICKEN?!
ImaginaryHuman wrote:
That in an era such as ours, in developed, modern western countries all across the world, people continue to cling to superstition and ignorance.
I despair of people who buy into all that "New Age" nonsense and claim to be individual thinkers, or some sort of visionaries, whilst failing to perceive that they are simply conforming to the ideal of a form of indoctrination. I'm saddened that many (but not all) "magical thinkers" seem to lack any critical faculties whatsoever; they accept every crackpot theory - be it conspiracy theories, laylines, spiritualism, astrology, alien abductions, Chi, ghosts, Matrix-inspired sudo-philosophy, etc. - that they are presented with. Often people do this due to low self-esteem or social awkwardness. Many "New Age thinkers" feel uncomfortable with reality, so they wilfully reject it; they seek to create a different reality in which they feel more secure. Or they seek to fit into a romanticised social group (for example, Wiccans, spiritualists, Christians, Buddhists, etc).
What a pity.
JustLuke what is it that makes you sad about these things?
That in an era such as ours, in developed, modern western countries all across the world, people continue to cling to superstition and ignorance.
I despair of people who buy into all that "New Age" nonsense and claim to be individual thinkers, or some sort of visionaries, whilst failing to perceive that they are simply conforming to the ideal of a form of indoctrination. I'm saddened that many (but not all) "magical thinkers" seem to lack any critical faculties whatsoever; they accept every crackpot theory - be it conspiracy theories, laylines, spiritualism, astrology, alien abductions, Chi, ghosts, Matrix-inspired sudo-philosophy, etc. - that they are presented with. Often people do this due to low self-esteem or social awkwardness. Many "New Age thinkers" feel uncomfortable with reality, so they wilfully reject it; they seek to create a different reality in which they feel more secure. Or they seek to fit into a romanticised social group (for example, Wiccans, spiritualists, Christians, Buddhists, etc).
What a pity.
That in an era such as ours, in developed, modern western countries all across the world, people continue to cling to superstition and ignorance.
I despair of people who buy into all that "New Age" nonsense and claim to be individual thinkers, or some sort of visionaries, whilst failing to perceive that they are simply conforming to a different sort of indoctrination. I'm also saddened that many (but not all) "magical thinkers" seem to lack any critical faculties whatsoever - they buy into every crackpot theory - be it conspiracy theories, laylines, spiritualism, astrology, alien abductions, Chi, ghosts, Matrix-inspired sudo-philosophy, etc. - that they are presented with. Often people do this due to low self-esteem or social awkwardness. They feel uncomfortable with reality, so they wilfully reject it; they seek to create a different reality in which they feel more secure. What a pity.
I despair of people who buy into all that "New Age" nonsense and claim to be individual thinkers, or some sort of visionaries, whilst failing to perceive that they are simply conforming to a different sort of indoctrination. I'm also saddened that many (but not all) "magical thinkers" seem to lack any critical faculties whatsoever - they buy into every crackpot theory - be it conspiracy theories, laylines, spiritualism, astrology, alien abductions, Chi, ghosts, Matrix-inspired sudo-philosophy, etc. - that they are presented with. Often people do this due to low self-esteem or social awkwardness. They feel uncomfortable with reality, so they wilfully reject it; they seek to create a different reality in which they feel more secure. What a pity.
I find it incredible that in this era there are human beings who can definitively say what does and does not exist, what's real and what is not. I pity their egomania.
Surely it is far more egomaniacal to claim that one's own personal, unsuported opinion, based on nothing but "intuition" and gut instinct, is equally as valid as the evidence of verifiable scientific research? Personally I'll believe in anything that can be scientifically proven to be true by means of replicatable experimentation and observable material evidence.
I mean, look, I'm not the one claiming to create reality here, Amon. I'm not a God - not even of my own world. Even who and what I am is beyond my conscious control, being mostly down to a mix of genetic predisposition and my environment. I'm humble and realistic enough to accept reality for what it is, warts and all. How is this egomaniacal?
I mean, look, I'm not the one claiming to create reality here, Amon. I'm not a God - not even of my own world. Even who and what I am is beyond my conscious control, being mostly down to a mix of genetic predisposition and my environment. I'm humble and realistic enough to accept reality for what it is, warts and all. How is this egomaniacal?
Ego is all about separation. So if you are creating a premise based on one way of believing being more real or true than another, you are creating a separation, and so are buying into the ego. It doesn't matter which path you take, or which path looks more right or real or true or preferable or proven. It's when you pit two paths against each other and say that one path is better or righter than the other that you are being egomaniacal.
On the other hand, it's when you accept that everyone is allowed to be exactly where they are at, believing whatever they currently choose, given that you know that all paths lead to Oneness eventually and that awakening is inevitable, that you put the ego aside. It's okay to believe whatever you want, you're not wrong for doing so, but you might be temporarily mistaken.
I will, however, address your point about your apparent humbleness in the face of a world outside of you. If the world causes your experience and makes you who you are and dictates what happens to you, you do not exist.
If you do not have any say in it whatsoever, which is what you're claiming, then you don't even have an identity of your own, you don't exist at all, not even as an ego yet alone as a Oneness or True Self. All of these attempts to portray yourself as being down to earth or more sane by accepting `reality as it is` or not having an issue with how things are, is really a facade covering up your wish to not exist, which is an egotistical state of being. As soon as you believe that you can be at the effect of anything you disown your creative casual power which is your birthright and who you really are.
You are being human, and being comfortable with being human, which is fine, because at least you're not trying to fight with the world so much, but that doesn't mean you are accepting reality or that you're in touch with it. Accepting the *appearance* of the world is to accept a false image covering up reality. Reality is not about images or appearances, it's about what is real. Reality is inside of you, it's what you are, not some hunk of matter outside of you going through constant change and fluctuation. How can you accept or live in a reality which is constantly undecided? Such a reality may be your *experience*, but that does not mean that your experience is true.
I would like to iterate again, that separation is what the ego is about, so any form of it is being ego. If I'm using my intellectual metaphysical thoughts to make you wrong or to say you are separate from me, I am being ego, which I have been to some degree, and I apologize. If you claim to be separate from a world that has created you, or separate from God, or separate from anyone, you are being ego. It's only through joining and sharing, at the level of the mind not the body, that you can get in touch with reality.
On the other hand, it's when you accept that everyone is allowed to be exactly where they are at, believing whatever they currently choose, given that you know that all paths lead to Oneness eventually and that awakening is inevitable, that you put the ego aside. It's okay to believe whatever you want, you're not wrong for doing so, but you might be temporarily mistaken.
I will, however, address your point about your apparent humbleness in the face of a world outside of you. If the world causes your experience and makes you who you are and dictates what happens to you, you do not exist.
If you do not have any say in it whatsoever, which is what you're claiming, then you don't even have an identity of your own, you don't exist at all, not even as an ego yet alone as a Oneness or True Self. All of these attempts to portray yourself as being down to earth or more sane by accepting `reality as it is` or not having an issue with how things are, is really a facade covering up your wish to not exist, which is an egotistical state of being. As soon as you believe that you can be at the effect of anything you disown your creative casual power which is your birthright and who you really are.
You are being human, and being comfortable with being human, which is fine, because at least you're not trying to fight with the world so much, but that doesn't mean you are accepting reality or that you're in touch with it. Accepting the *appearance* of the world is to accept a false image covering up reality. Reality is not about images or appearances, it's about what is real. Reality is inside of you, it's what you are, not some hunk of matter outside of you going through constant change and fluctuation. How can you accept or live in a reality which is constantly undecided? Such a reality may be your *experience*, but that does not mean that your experience is true.
I would like to iterate again, that separation is what the ego is about, so any form of it is being ego. If I'm using my intellectual metaphysical thoughts to make you wrong or to say you are separate from me, I am being ego, which I have been to some degree, and I apologize. If you claim to be separate from a world that has created you, or separate from God, or separate from anyone, you are being ego. It's only through joining and sharing, at the level of the mind not the body, that you can get in touch with reality.
Ugh. Methinks you need to brush up on your Freudian Psychoanalytical theory before you write another essay on the nature of the Ego. Your argument is so flawed, illogical and uninformed that I don't know where to begin. So I won't.
Obfuscation: the activity of obscuring people's understanding, leaving them baffled or bewildered.
This is 'Appeal to consequences' logical fallacy. Because the consequence is unfavorable, this must not be. A world that dictates what will happen to you causing you not to exist is a bad thing, therefore it can't be true.
Yeh isn't it annoying when people who have no idea tell you what it is you actually believe? I guess because I'm an ego or something that because I believe it you are really that or something.
JUSTIFY YOUR STATEMENTS. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.
It doesn't matter which path you take, or which path looks more right or real or true or preferable or proven. It's when you pit two paths against each other and say that one path is better or righter than the other that you are being egomaniacal.
What you call egomaniacal, I call using judgement to make a decision. On the other hand, it's when you accept that everyone is allowed to be exactly where they are at, believing whatever they currently choose, given that you know that all paths lead to Oneness eventually and that awakening is inevitable, that you put the ego aside.
Why do you assume that everybody will eventually reach this enlightenment of yours, or that all paths lead to it? It's okay to believe whatever you want, you're not wrong for doing so, but you might be temporarily mistaken.
Mistaken by whose opinion? Ha, who's seperating who now! If the world causes your experience and makes you who you are and dictates what happens to you, you do not exist.
What justification do you have for this statement? This one of those things where, there is no logical reason for it, so there is no logical way to argue agaisnt it. Look I can do it too. If you allow yourself to drink chocolate milk, and put sugar on your Frosties in the morning, YOU DO NOT EXIST!This is 'Appeal to consequences' logical fallacy. Because the consequence is unfavorable, this must not be. A world that dictates what will happen to you causing you not to exist is a bad thing, therefore it can't be true.
If you do not have any say in it whatsoever, which is what you're claiming, then you don't even have an identity of your own,
No he never said that. Life is a mixture of things within and without our control. not even as an ego yet alone as a Oneness or True Self.
Could you percisely define what Oneness and True Self means. Also, just because they sound nice, doesn't make that I want to be them or they should be my goal. So justifiy why they are such things that I should aim towards. All of these attempts to portray yourself as being down to earth or more sane by accepting `reality as it is` or not having an issue with how things are, is really a facade covering up your wish to not exist, which is an egotistical state of being.
I hate it when people tell me what I do or do not wish or want. You don't know, so don't pretend to know. All this obfuscation is just a facade covering up your wish to acheive some kind of enlightenment and to add meaning to what you really view as an otherwise meaningless life. You're not special, neither am I. (And if we all are special, then how does that make us special.)Yeh isn't it annoying when people who have no idea tell you what it is you actually believe? I guess because I'm an ego or something that because I believe it you are really that or something.
You are being human, and being comfortable with being human, which is fine, because at least you're not trying to fight with the world so much, but that doesn't mean you are accepting reality or that you're in touch with it.
So how does being human mean that you are accepting reality. And how would not being human mean you are fighting against the world. Why is all this specific to humanness? Reality is not about images or appearances, it's about what is real.
REALLY???????? Thanks for pointing this out. This adds nothing to your arguement, the same was as chocolate milk means you don't exist as chocolate isn't about images or appearances it's about what's chocolate. Accepting the *appearance* of the world is to accept a false image covering up reality.
Just because it is an image, doesn't mean that it is false. Just because it COULD be false, doesn't mean it is false. Reality is inside of you, it's what you are, not some hunk of matter outside of you going through constant change and fluctuation.
I thought reality was what was real. If reality IS a hunk of matter (among other things) then that's what's real. How can you tell one way or the other? How do you know that your idea of reality being inside of you isn't just a false image?? How can you accept or live in a reality which is constantly undecided?
Because I have teh skillz? This is 'Appeal to consequences' logical fallacy again. You are implying that constantly undecided reality is something bad to accept or live in, therefore it cannot be so. Such a reality may be your *experience*, but that does not mean that your experience is true.
So your experience is better? Your egos are seperating again. I would like to iterate again, that separation is what the ego is about, so any form of it is being ego.
I disagree that seperation is what the ego is all about. If you claim to be separate from a world that has created you, or separate from God, or separate from anyone, you are being ego.
Whoa slow down there. A minute ago you were bashing us for believing that we were part of an ever-changing reality over which we do not have complete control. Now you are accusing us of believing that we are seperate from it. Btw I don't claim that, so I guess I'm not been ego. However I do pit my paths together quite a lot so where does that leave me? It's only through joining and sharing, at the level of the mind not the body, that you can get in touch with reality.
But how can I ever be sure that my experiances of joining and sharing are real? And how does joining and sharing make me in touch with reality? You're just making it up as you go along now.JUSTIFY YOUR STATEMENTS. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.
..this world going to end anyway so do reality you talking about, and more you like it, more you will suffer..scary fact for 'present reality lovers' is that none of us can't do a thing to change that..and I think its good...
I think you need to learn how to use sentences.
yes, I agreed..and when your speak German as good as i speak English, call me..
I'm sorry, I'm drunk. I love you all really. Even ImaginaryHuman. I love you all!
I gotta stop on those Vks. But they're so cheap!
I gotta stop on those Vks. But they're so cheap!
Thanks for your comments but it is not worth either of us discussing this further.
Spoil sport. I am so game. Don't chicken out. Respond to my challanges!
The truth is very simple, obvious, straightforward and self evident. It needs no explaining. It just is. It is pure, simple, holy, loving and kind. It shares with everyone equally and knows everything there is to know. It is everywhere and in everything. It last forever and never changes or wavers. Its consistency is perfect and its clarity flawless.
For you, or I, to experience such a truth, requires that we put aside all of our blocks to it, for it is only those blocks that keep us from accepting it. We don't have to learn what truth is. Truth already IS. We only need to let go of everything that we've put in the way in trying to prevent truth from being what it is. If we can let go of all of our complicated needs and requirements and arguments and analyses, then maybe we can accept the simple plain truth of what we naturally are. We are the Oneness and can't truly be anything else, but we can deny that this is so. That's all we're doing here, denying truth and justifying it.
It wouldn't help for me to continue trying to justify `my truth` to present it to you. I don't need to present to you something that you already have full access to. The truth is inside of yourself, where it belongs. You only need look where it really is to see it. Nobody, including me, needs to give it to you or teach it to you, and we can't. It isn't something that can be bartered with or argued about, it can only be denied or accepted. You are the truth and the light. You only need be reminded of this, not given it as if you never had it.
We don't need these games of ego tournament. It doesn't come to anything and is a waste of time. Time could be spent being peaceful and forgiving and accepting each other as whole. So let's do that instead.
For you, or I, to experience such a truth, requires that we put aside all of our blocks to it, for it is only those blocks that keep us from accepting it. We don't have to learn what truth is. Truth already IS. We only need to let go of everything that we've put in the way in trying to prevent truth from being what it is. If we can let go of all of our complicated needs and requirements and arguments and analyses, then maybe we can accept the simple plain truth of what we naturally are. We are the Oneness and can't truly be anything else, but we can deny that this is so. That's all we're doing here, denying truth and justifying it.
It wouldn't help for me to continue trying to justify `my truth` to present it to you. I don't need to present to you something that you already have full access to. The truth is inside of yourself, where it belongs. You only need look where it really is to see it. Nobody, including me, needs to give it to you or teach it to you, and we can't. It isn't something that can be bartered with or argued about, it can only be denied or accepted. You are the truth and the light. You only need be reminded of this, not given it as if you never had it.
We don't need these games of ego tournament. It doesn't come to anything and is a waste of time. Time could be spent being peaceful and forgiving and accepting each other as whole. So let's do that instead.
So are you going to state for me this very simple, obvious, straightforward and self-evident truth or not? Nice definition but stop defining things and start stating things! I can use a dictionary.
For me, I have to accept that I do not know the truth, and I do not acknowledge my ignorance as truth.
For me, I have to accept that I do not know the truth, and I do not acknowledge my ignorance as truth.
[The End]
@ImaginaryHuman..
..hes drunk man..dont worry..let him be...well..drunk..
..hes drunk man..dont worry..let him be...well..drunk..
Anything that is true is the truth, and there are lot of things that are true. What truth exactly is it I'm supposed to be looking for? That I am male, or my carpet is red? If I do find this truth, how do I have any idea that it is real and not just an experiance of mine? I just get a warm-buzzing feeling when I get it?
You say words but all I hear is this
You say words but all I hear is this
It looks like ImaginaryHuman is in a huff now (he has edited his post). Don't worry I'm not real, I'm just an illusion.
This is the first time somebody has comprehensively challanged you. I don't care if I did it very well or not it's the principle that I did, and you gave in right away. I'm a bit disappointed.
You still haven't responded to any of my points.
This is the first time somebody has comprehensively challanged you. I don't care if I did it very well or not it's the principle that I did, and you gave in right away. I'm a bit disappointed.
You still haven't responded to any of my points.
ImaginaryHuman is very good at dancing around the fact that his arguments are hollow and lack both substance and logic. Very interesting.
It must now be very clear to anyone who has been following this thread how poorly both his arguments and opinions (and those of other "magical thinkers") stand up to analysis. They might be smothered in metaphorical and mystical obfuscation, but essentially they all boil down to a single premise: "If I like something, it must be true. If I don't, it can't be true."
It must now be very clear to anyone who has been following this thread how poorly both his arguments and opinions (and those of other "magical thinkers") stand up to analysis. They might be smothered in metaphorical and mystical obfuscation, but essentially they all boil down to a single premise: "If I like something, it must be true. If I don't, it can't be true."
i stopped reading em fully (not as much fun as a xylvian thread ;) )
but this "all paths lead to oneness" etc
basically boils down to a very long winded way of stating one belief in the afterlife
unless of course their is a paragraph i missed somewhere (like most of the thread) where the world is very new, like living memory new and all those that were before were just false memories and although weve been knocking around for ages we havnt really, boar war, 1066 and all that jazz, just figments of our imagination and not what history 'tells' us what happened
i feel the world as real
this keyboard feels like its under my fingers as i type
if i drop a hammer on my toe it will hurt
so whack your thumb with a hammer and tell yourself that you and the hammer do not exist so their is no need to feel pain :D
but this "all paths lead to oneness" etc
basically boils down to a very long winded way of stating one belief in the afterlife
unless of course their is a paragraph i missed somewhere (like most of the thread) where the world is very new, like living memory new and all those that were before were just false memories and although weve been knocking around for ages we havnt really, boar war, 1066 and all that jazz, just figments of our imagination and not what history 'tells' us what happened
i feel the world as real
this keyboard feels like its under my fingers as i type
if i drop a hammer on my toe it will hurt
so whack your thumb with a hammer and tell yourself that you and the hammer do not exist so their is no need to feel pain :D
This thread is not real.