Over-unity

Somebody may just be mad enough to make sense of this probably simple concept for Free Energy.

Check this thread out and get addicted.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4540.0.html


Or check Archer Quinn's website out for more ravings of genius or lunacy - take you pick, but by the 20th of June we should all know which!


http://www.surphzup.com/

bump, for anyone who was interested.

The build page:
http://www.surphzup.com/gpage1.html1.html

What it looks like:
http://www.surphzup.com/gpage21.html

The Concept it self is nothing new but people have stayed away from the concept due to friction (Yes it is still effected by Friction over time) and (Its not Perpetual Energy) It uses Electromagnetism to retain motion so without Replacement Magnets or Remagnetism via another powersource it will eventually stop.

I think it is logically proven that you cannot build a free energy machine using Newtonian physics, and the site looks like an usual free-energy scam.

P.S. I'm not funded by the oil-industry

well said put your money away guys&galls

There is no point looking for free energy devices. If anybody creates a real one, it well sell so fast everyone will know about it. Even the oil companies. Why would they pass up the chance to patent and sell a superproduct and make billions more? Especially with oil running out?

More likely said energy/oil companies would buy the patents/inventions (or just "do" the inventor(s) in) , sit on them while they screw the consumer with fossil fuels until they run out, then go cap in hand to governments with this brilliant idea that they have for free energy, then screw the consumer under the pretense that they had to lay out vast amounts of capitol to develop this free energy technology.

The current high oil prices have more to do with the low $ and people investing in oil instead of other markets that have recently fallen on the wayside. Here in the US we finaly have $5 a gallon fuel which is having a big impact on the types of new vehicles sold. I think its all good :)

Petrol prices in the UK could be $5 too if the government didn't take almost 60% of it plus VAT. Here the fuel stations barely break even. The government and big oil companies make all the money.

Having said that, will be interesting to see if McCain goes ahead with his plans of a $300,000,000 prize avaliable to anyone that can jump a technology gap with next gen batteries.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Chevy Volt works out. A plug in electric car thats 100% electric drive, allthough it does have a small engine to generate electricity once the battery runs low.

There are a few other cool sports cars using similar tech, Fischer Karma and Tesla.

I think the high fuel prices are a good thing myself. Even if it does mean that the price of goods go up to compensate for rocketing shipping costs.

Ford closed down 3 SUV and Truck plants and are retooling them to make European cars like the Fiesta. And GM is bringing out the Saturn Astra (Vauxhall astra). Ford focus production has increased 30% in the last few months, and sales of small economical cars have gone through the roof.

Anyone who believes in perpetual motion, no matter how convincing the sales pitch, is a complete fool.

Anyone who believes in free energy, no matter how convincing the sales pitch, is a complete fool.

Anyone who believes a perpetual motion machine is going to give the world free energy is beneath contempt.

It saddens me, reading but a few of the comments on YouTube, just how many fools there are in the world.

Hey Hujiklo I visit overunity a fair bit. Are you registered on there?

Archer's a definite BS merchant in my book. According to the man himself he had a working perpetual motion machine but decided to take it apart and can't rebuild it.

What is more saddening is that more often than not, the sales pitch isn't convincing, yet people still fall for it. It's tempting to believe in easy solutions.

This reminds me of something I was going to do. Ziggy if you're reading this, you might want to change the new Blide project icon. Some of us 'less-matures' may have a bit of a laugh...

> Anyone who believes in perpetual motion, no matter how convincing the sales pitch, is a complete fool.

I don't know how that makes someone a fool, but whatever.

Yes, because if a pitch is 100% convincing, you could hardly blame the person for believing it ;)

Perpetual motion is impossible! When will you foolish humans ever learn?!

John Galt: I have been having a good old sniff around there quite a bit lately.

I'm not sure about the term 'perpetual motion' - it shrink-wraps the whole cause.

I definitely believe there is a way to shield magnets and get them to work for us in overcoming gravity (without the wall effect)...in fact I've become consumed with this idea!

I think AQ is a wild guy, but I don't think he's a fraud by any stretch.

I think he'll eventually come up with something.

Free energy devices already exist, solar power, converting wind into energy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_energy

Exactly. It's almost always the debunkers who say free energy means 'energy from nothing'.

@Hujiklo- get yourself signed up over there. I look forward to arguing, erm I mean discussing the subject with you. Check out the Steven Mark/Jack Durban story if you want to see a real soap opera :)

It's a bit of a hollow victory when you win because the term you were using meant something different to another. Free energy can either mean energy without cost (you win, though there is creation/maintenance cost), or, 'new' energy in the universe that breaks the laws of conservation (you don't win because arguement irrelevent).

I now just followed the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_energy which proves my point - it gives 5 definitions for free energy, to which are you refering?

i recall a similar method in the camera biz
my dad used to read camera mags and was intrigued by this new digital camera concept
it was a film canister sized 'gubbins' with a ccd where the film would be exposed that fit any 35mm camera, thus negating you to buy an expensive SLR if all you had to do was slap this thing in your expencive beauty with 4 or 5 different lenses
dont know if this was a real product or not or what the mega pixel was, but if you were a digital camera maker wanting people to ditch their 35mm for the comparable digital model it would damage your sales and all but kill the migration to true digital cameras
so it was bought lock stock and never to be seen again

but back to the fule side of it
bio fules vs crops?
in a similar way that vegans spout that a cow eats x ammount of grass on a field of yay big and when killed ammounts to whatever food, that planting crops on said field would be better per hectare
mind you some pastures are on hills ... cant see a combine managing that

but what would happen if farm land suddenly started growing corn for biofule and not for human consumption (or the product was sold to bio fules anyhows) what becomes more important, biofule or food crops?

and why in amongst all this 'need for bio fule research' did customs and excise impound (and destroy?) a car that ran on used chip oil?
because they wernt getting any revenue from petrol sales ?!?
so they say we need these alternate fules
then they get all shirty when they dont get any money from the fule sales

That's what a lot of us over at overunity.com keep saying. Free energy exists in many forms.

Archer is not a fool, he is just trying to prove a concept on how to control a larger force with a smaller force.

If it wasn't for back-yard tinkerers, we would not have half the inventions that we use today.

@ nawi...




Stefan does a damn good job with that site. How can it be a scam, when membership is free ?.

If someone is trying to tell me the impossible is possible, but never quite get to the point of how, well I call it a crock and move on...

@ dynaman...

Everyone's entitled to their own oppinion I suppose, but remember this...

Nobody has ever proven to the world that there is an afterlife, or if God really exists, but people still go to church, and pour loads of money into Christianity, and other religions.

Also remember that hundreds of years ago, the Know-It-All clan had everyone believing that the sky was painted.

According to Quinn 'Free Energy' means: energy you can create for free, without paying money. So that includes solar, wind, hydro power. It's a vague term, so it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

What ever happened to that laser fusion thingy? (where they shot a ton of lasers, in a sphere, at a tiny generator device; then stored the energy in glass-like blocks)

never heard of it

yep the old defining term 'free'

cant see any of the big guys in the uk allowing that free means free malarky

wind farms generate energy fron well wind
but the electricity outputted is still billed to the consumer
the wind would be blowing there anyway

same as water wheels from many moons ago ... the river was running that way anyway thank you verry much

getting back to the how method from another thread (by rob i think)
abducting 500 children and forcing them to turn a large set of wheels around 24/7 is concidered 'free' energy if you dont pay them or feed them

> Also remember that hundreds of years ago, the Know-It-All clan had everyone believing that the sky was painted.

I'll leave the other baiting aside, this however has been proven to not be true, so the fact that people use to believe the painting bit is irrelevent. (plus the idea the sky was painted falls under the idea the earth was flat and Columbus proved otherwise, it was actually known well beforehand that the Earth was not flat)

>> Anyone who believes in perpetual motion, no matter how convincing the sales pitch, is a complete fool.

>I don't know how that makes someone a fool, but whatever.

OK, they may just be very ignorant rather than merely foolish. However, once you start to discuss it with them and they insist on sticking to a "well, you just never know, it might be possible... we got to the moon, didn't we?" style of argument, they become foolish.

They may not understand the concept of the second law of thermodynamics. I do not call them foolish for this reason (despite it being required learning in most schools) but I do expect them to accept a rational, logical explanation (even if simplified).

Any machine exhibiting perpetual-motion behaviour is taking its energy from somewhere. As soon as you involve magnets, you're playing on the layman's ignorance of how permanent magnets work. The word permanent is a misnomer. A permanent magnet can indeed suspend an object against the force of gravity, but the magnet is losing energy in doing so. It will eventually lose its magnetism, requiring an energy input to again magnetise it.

That statement is incorrect.

Did you know?

It is possible to flick food across the table using your fork as a lever and your finger as a fulcrum.

Free energy.

> It is possible to flick food across the table using your fork as a lever and your finger as a fulcrum.

>Free energy.


Tell that to the Cow (or chicken, or fish, or vegetables) that you have been having for dinner. I'm sure they have a different idea of that energy being free.

Hey this is just like Over-unity.com!!

Home from Home.

On the magnets bit, there is a great little discussion about it here (and what constitutes "work") At least for the first few posts - I didn't read further.

http://www.advancedphysics.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4394

@ markcw...

> It is possible to flick food across the table using your fork as a lever and your finger as a fulcrum.

>Free energy.


YEAH !... Spud Wars. :D (I might make a game based on that) :)



Another idea was conceptualised at overunity.com, it may also be possible to use waste energy from power stations to power small personal equipment.


@ Hujiklo...

Are you a member of overunity.com too ?. So am I... I'm known as Bulbz over there.

Well when he finally manages to prove his concept I'll eat my hat, and my sock (who cares I'll have free energy, after all it's not a scam and he's releasing it for free right!) Until then, the arguement "it might be possible, so yada" doesn't cut it for me.

@steve_ancell what is the point in your arguement? You basically said, I believe in A in way C, but you don't. However, you believe in B in way C. I believe B is false, therefore way C is not a good way. But the bit you missed out is, I still believe in way C. I don't how your point about belief in the afterlife strengthens your own position.

I also just noticed you said "control a larger force with a smaller force". Well I believe you can control a larger force with a small force, but not that you can put a smaller force in some process and get a larger force out (in a closed system ie no cheating). What did you mean?


Btw, never trust forum-physics. I attempted half a degree in physics and I certainly consider myself no expert - but often the smartest thing of all is to say you have no idea. Half this stuff makes me sigh with despair.


An edit for your previous post:
Conceptualised is an easy word to say. What exactly is waste energy and wouldn't it be a better idea just to make power stations more efficient so less energy is wasted?

I not study many of physics, but the story teached that human can wrong, in past we had many other cases (flat world, many math concepts,etc..) maybe physics "rules" are wrong too, physics rule was created from someother humans before us.. Yes they show the concept, but maybe there are many other things we don't already know, we aren't perfect.

This is just an opinion not a "rule" :)

Aza

The fact that A could be wrong, does not make competing theory B any more right!

Conservation of energy is fundamental to physics, without it everything we know will break down. Maybe one day it will be disproven, but considering it has been extensively tested, down to the sub-atomic level, for the past century by the greatest minds in the world, I don't think some guy in his backyard with a pair of scissors, a few pipes and a particle accelerator (he doesn't have one?? oh..) is going to disprove it anytime soon.

I don't want discredit many of the most important mind in our history (many was Italian like me, it' like i insulting my country), but Pitagora show us that all the maths basic was wrong and he rewrited it completely..
Thas was many years ago, but amybe we miss something.. :)

Aza

@ Czar Flavius...

If you wan't to start an argument about it, then go and join overunity.com, coz I'm not prepared to argue on here.

BTW... When free energy is proven, would you like some ketchup to go with your hat ?. :P

Name me 2 examples of a closed system.

Free energy does not imply conservation of energy is broken.

@Hujiklo- My problem with AQ is that he's not saying 'I have an idea I'm working on'. He says he had a working device then dismantled it. I just don't believe that, which is why I'm not interested in anything else he has to say.

1. The universe.
2. A vacuum.

:D

I've been talking about free energy as in you get more energy out than what you put in ie energy is created. Isn't that what people have been talking about?

Of course I believe in costless energy, like a solar panel. It just sits there and gets you energy for free. But if that's what people have been talking about, why then all the arguement about perpetual motion and stuff????

I said in the middle of the thread people should better define what they mean by free energy but nobody did, so I just carried on with the definition that people seemed to be using at the beginning of the thread ie energy-from-nothing machines.

Correct!
Sorry, incorrect, and that's textbook physics.

Then you've won your own argument, based on your definition of what you think 'free energy' is.

The basic idea in patents it that the plans are freely available from the patent office. Were any real free energy device patented, somebody would've tested it (like the mythbusters, that tested several of them). Although I don't think the US patent office accepts free energy patents anymore.

I don't think any sane person who did actually invent a working free energy device would do anything but release the plans, create a couple of working prototypes and sent them to be tested. The "secret oil industry" would have no time to react.

It is also a myth that the oil industry tries to stop the development of electric cars. In fact, Neste, an oil company, was in the forefront of electric car development in the 80's (with a company called ElCat), the problem was that nobody wanted to buy them, lead battery electric cars are just too heavy and suck. Now, with lithium-ion batteris and high cost of petrol things are starting to change.

http://www.elcat.fi/eng/index.php

I think that for the moment nothing will change..

The ethanol like energy is already ready (you can have it from rotten grain..), and it tested from 10 years (many farmer use it to burn) try to immagine this scenary:

Huge company sell an important thing, that thing it's used by all the world and slowly this things became rare.. If something is rare the price grow over and over than know think about it:
The most rich man of the world are the owner of this huge company do you really think they allow other person to sell car that use ethanol? (the price of ethanol is near to 0 rather than gasoline)
I don't think so..
History teach, remeber it, men are always men!

Aza

P.s. this just a site but try to write ethanol car in google..
http://news.cnet.com/Ethanol-car-wins-fuel-efficiency-challenge/2100-11389_3-6075058.html

rising oil prices aren't good at all. most people who don't have much money to go around will really be struggling. the price of food has already risen alot.

Well Quinn defines Free energy on his site from the economic point of view, where there is no or negligible cost.

The other definition is the physics one, where the extra energy in a system that can be used is known as Free energy.

Both are right, in fact Quinn refers to the physics definition of Free energy in his videos.

Ethanol cars are readily available, so maybe you should stick to facts. You can even buy supercars that run on ethanol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX
Azatur, maybe you should do a small google search that tries to FALSIFY your claims, not a search that can only prove them..
There is no "rich elite" that can stop them, and they're ever more increasing. However, I don't think biofuel is the solution, we need to use farms to produce food, plus biofuel production has high co2 emissions.

Of course there is a rich elite that can stop them. Who makes your worthless paper money out of thin air? And who uses obscenely obfuscated 'slight-of-hand' to financially milk the human herd through the supine traitors and apparatchiks in governments the world over? What was ever wrong with the gold standard? And why can mere speculation destroy whole companies and even economies? It's all BS that's why!! But you'll never learn it through school that's for sure.

An extremely affordable, replenishable energy source that the lowly proles can harness for themselves is a huge, gritty, spiked anathema to our invisible masters - they will lose control of the whole revolting scam. They'll never have that, and will use every single dirty trick up their sleeves, from every devious fungus-hole that riddles their avaricious minds to prevent it.

Normal people don't lie awake at night thinking how to keep the filthy masses down on their knees - these scum do.

If we all had free electricity - they'd tax the air we breathe.

One tiny atom of faith in the goodwill of our un-elected masters is criminally misplaced.

Yeah, most people will go for a patent before disclosing, then a gagging order is slapped on. That's international patent law that applies to these kind of things with military application.

BTW: At OverUnity I go by the handle 'Nomen Luni'

The lock is only a moment away now...

Edit: ok, so maybe not then.

Well first of all, yes, I don't know about the future but we don't live in gangster anarchy yet. Secondly, nobody wants to be part of a dying business. With oil running out, the oil companies will want to invest in something else to get them money - why allow a competitor to get all the profits from new technology?

My masters are elected?

Anyway science will save us. http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINSP7366720080613

Hmm, am energy generator that works on water, I wonder why this ultra-revolution technology has not been reported in use anywhere else, or the basic idea of how it works is not reported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkwGnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM&NR=1

Because it is new? And it's all over the internet.

The first is just separating hydrogen then burning that, it is better to just directly use the battery. My point about the "Japanese water car" was that the inventor would not rationally spend extra months to build a car, when he has a magic energy device that produces energy from just water, which is worth like 100 billion dollars per year. The Stanley Meyer invention seems to be a hoax, and is also patented so you can built it yourself to test it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer
[quote]It is argued that this was done to suppress the technology, in spite of the fact complete plans remain available online.[/quote

Tip: Please study the basics of physics before making another post to this thread.

I know that's essentially what it is. The claim is that the novel method used produces more energy out than in. (I'm not implying energy creation here). A lot of people are claiming to have reproduced these results, JLNlabs being one. Without having built one, I guess it just boils down to what we respectively believe.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

Man that hurts. You assume I haven't. Always analyse the assumptions you make. That's science 101.

What are the "the basics of physics"? Can I watch it on Youtube?

You cannot create (or destroy) energy, its against all (known) laws of physics, it can only be converted form one form to another. The idea of perpetual motion is absurd, even in a vacum. Energy is not being created or sustained, its just not going anywhere hence the object maintains a constant motion. In effect it becomes stored potential energy.

@ D4NM4N...

Then how would you explain Nuclear Power ?.

That definately gives out more than you put in, otherwise what would be the point of using it ?.

No it doesn't, the energy is stored as enormous potential energy in the atoms of enriched uranium. This energy is released when you split them and is converted into heat light, sound and other radiations, which (eventually) dissipate and convert into other forms of energy, for example, as radioactivity decays it generates heat, light (and other emissions?), as sound hits and vibrates a solid liquid or gas (kinetic energy) it generates heat etc. etc. The energy is never lost, it just becomes 'absorbed' again in a multitude of ways.
Energy that is lost to space (eg light, heat and other radiations) is the planet's lost energy, but it still exists (which is why we can see other planets)

@D4NM4N...

Yes I see your point, but you have aslo varified what I said further up this topic... Controlling a large energy source with a smaller one.

Gravity can be a source of power in many ways. Think of how tidal energy is possible.

The bottom line is... Yes a lot of F.E inventions fail, but we still need to experiment in order to open-up new possibilities.

You can control a large energy source with a smaller one, but only to the point of the energy required to control it, not supply it.
The larger device still needs as much energy going in as it putting out (in all forms)

But true, experiments are goooood. Just because physics says so doesn't make it a solid 100% definite. (look at antimatter for example, whoever came up with that idea was probably initially ridiculed in the same way newton and galileo were)

Even if we do fail in the quest for F.E, we will still find a way to produce cheap energy.

Fusion is the most hopeful (not to be confused with fission!), it takes the atoms of hydrogen and helium (an abundant potential energy source) which when combined by laser-superheated compaction of atoms as a 'kick-start', generate an enormous release of energy and chain reaction (or something like that :), problem is they have not worked out a way to sustain the reaction and getting it started requires a -HUGE- amount of power.
Theory goes, once the reaction starts there is enough energy there to sustain itself for a long period while harvesting enough energy to supply our needs (kind of like the way the sun works). But even that would not be perpetual as its constantly giving a little of its energy away (just like the sun) so the reaction will eventually die.

Good luck with the quest though as the earth is like a big battery (with a little help from the sun of course). It is filled with potential energy but that energy is finite, humans have already exceeded biocapacity and are taking way more energy than the 'biosphere' can supply with existing technologies. (that is if its to remain habitable) .

Just dont get your hopes up on finding a way to -create- energy thats all ;P

From one of the guys behind tokamak... why it's a big waste of money and how the funding has been pulled from a far more promising fusion technology:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=FhL5VO2NStU

Another scam? It fooled Reuters,
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=8304856&ch=4226714&src=news

>John Galt
>Another scam? It fooled Reuters.


A system that "directly" releases electrons from water ?, even I'm not convinced. Plus they mention that it can even run on tea, that would oxydise the electrodes for a start !.

It can run on tea - so what? I don't think they'd recommend it though. Can't normal cars burn other combustibles too? It's not a false statement. So principly they're correct.

There is a whole universe of opportunities staring us right in the face all the time - we've been trained to ridicule, then reject them, and stick to whatever the herd is taught.

Guy's like Archer Quinn are where we have hope, he is his own captain - there is no hope with knee-jerk 'nay-saying' over and over.

Czar Flavius : I said 'un-elected' !!

"The rich oil elite will never allow nuclear power, since cheap, safe and clean energy is just so much better than oil!"

Are you saying nuclear power is cheap, safe and clean?

Yes, compared to other means of energy production. The point was that there is no such thing as "rich oil elite" that prevents innovation.

Cheap- if fuel rods materialised from nowhere and nuclear waste popped out of existence after use, then maybe. In fact, the mining, processing and storage of waste associated with nuclear material has a large cost in terms of money and conventional fuels.

Safe- Chernobyl, Three Mile Island etc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_accident

Clean- Nuclear waste with a half life of hundreds or thousands of years? Oil consumption associated with fuel rod production? How's that 'clean'.

The true power is in the hands of the bankers, who own the vast majority of industry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo

-> Are you saying nuclear power is cheap, safe and clean?

It is "safe" enough, cleaner than other fuels (but not THAT clean -except we dont need to worry about the mess for a few 1000 years) As for cheap, no it isn't, the disposal, logistics and safety/security concerns are hugely expensive.
Plus you have the considerations of the supply; theres only supposed to be about 20-30 years supply from known reserves.

However, unless people and industry can cut down (so we can realistically consider renewables) then nuclear fission the only realistic option, unless we can master fusion of course.

It is safe, modern nuclear power plants cannot "blow up".
It is cheap, a recent study by the Tampere University of Technology rated it the cheapest energy source.
It is clean compared to coal power etc (solar/wind power won't provide constant energy).

My point was that it is a really revolutionizing energy technology, and the purported "rich oil elite" didn't stop it one bit. Besides, Thorium Nuclear Power is even better: http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=212

Nuclear weapons? I thought we were talking about energy generation?

You're focusing too much on oil- it's about centralisation of power, and oil is a big part of that. Nuclear power is also centralised... it's not the sort of thing Mr average can have pumping out power in his back yard.

Do you have a link to the Tampere paper? Do they include fuel production and disposal in their accounting?

I just checked the news, it was actually by Lappeenranta University of Technology, but I could only find Finnish news sources.

Oh well, thanks for looking, but my Finnish is not too hot!

Nuclear, oil, coal - whatever. So long as the same slimy clan control all the pieces they win.

They are way ahead of us when it comes to this game. War is good for business. Chaos is good for business. Crime is good for business. Depression is good for business. As long as we're continually harrased, distracted with entertainment, and take no responsibility for the present or future (though funny enough we're constantly made to feel guilty for a past that was never ours) It goes on... They win every time and keep farming us. Wake up! Don't play their game - let them keep their slimy credit, take your money out of the bank and buy gold, silver (something real) etc...Don't believe in your pension scheme, take responisibilty for your own future - be men!

Work on OU!!

who decided gold had any real value anyway?
go buy all the gold you can
one day someone is going to say its worthless and paper is the rare commodoty these days ;)

"i made you something with origami dear"
"oh how preacious ... glossy 90gsm paper that must have set you back a few bob"
"5 bars of 24 carrat gold, but your worth it my dear"

edit:
and whilst im on about metals with value
why in gods name are we still minting brand new 1p and 2p pieces in the uk when you can still find legal tender coins from the 80's nocking about, im sure it costs more to mint a penny than a penny is worth
ofset of course by the fact that it dont cost £50 to make a £50 note ;)
but coins verses cloth 'paper' money the durability is immence, yet im finding ever so more shiny coins in my change these days

if we stopped minting them we could save the metals for something else

if we stopped giving out penny change and instead had the 1p from your £29.99 game going to charity by default we could have enough dosh per person to wipe out alot of 3rd world debt within a few years

and dont say "well wont shop keepers keep the dosh or artificially raise the price to £30" lets pretend this is a legal requirement like vat
no one will miss a penny, unlike the noticable 17.5% price hike. but as we are shown the inc vat price, we dont really worry as there isnt much about it we can do unless we can reclaim vat as a business.

and smelt down all pennies as they come back into banks
give a grace period where you could pay for things under 50p with sharpnell (or just bank them yourself) an begone with them

He who knows nothing, doubts nothing, or doubts everything.

It is human nature to be greedy and selfish. It is also human nature to reproduce and construct societies. Conspiracy theories and the like are nothing new, yet here we are, richer than ever (well the fortunate proportion at least), no chaos in my country, banks and pensions are only supplied because they are demanded, and no advanced economy can exist without banks.

We don't live in the woods anymore...


Anyway this thread is getting a bit silly now.

It's not silly. Where are you? In the US? Watch the depression that has already started... this will be the big one. Can't you see it coming? Rationing of bags of Rice in Walmart was just the start. Food production (as just about anything else) is in the hands of a very small consortium of interests. Study fiat currency and its implications and you will understand.

Speaking of this thread getting a bit silly.....

There is already a solution to the world energy crisis... Round-up all the scum of the Earth, and make them walk inside giant Hamster wheels attached to generators.

No I am not in the US so please don't assume that. I live in the UK where Tescos is overflowing with food, and they recently reduced prices on veg.

I didn't assume.. that's why there was a question mark. It's the same deal here in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575614/Food-cost-increase-adds-andpound750-to-annual-bill.html

You know boom and depression have effected economies for centuries, it's not just constant continuous growth. I'm not worried, and if the worst does happen, then oh well you win.



Looks like food prices have increased simply because poor people are getting less poor, which I think is a good thing, rather than some conspiracy about a consortium.

Hey! you may be on to something there, the uk would have a readily renewable resource
- Yobbos!

Certainly beats the hell out of asbos, hoodie bans and fully paid 'rehabilitation holidays'.

a month of 10 hour days in a hamster wheel would sort em out AND they would be doing something useful :D

Czar - you don't even know why we have so called 'depressions' do you?

Do you know a dollar today is worth less than one cent of it's value before the 'unmentionable clan' enslaved the US with the Federal Reserve ( as well as every other worthwhile country - UK included). Before that scam started up inflation was practically immeasurable, and a dollar meant a promise of dollar's worth of gold - which has now been erased off the dollar bill.

So why do we even need inflation? Do you know? I don't think you do. We are literally paying to be slaves. There is nothing more absurd than the whole banking system that has it's odious black tendrils around the planet right now. But you can only keep the fake math going for so long - it's impossible to control greed and so it's starting to crumble now that people (even fellow reptiles) are losing trust in the whole scam. We now have the beginnings of a credit/banking collapse completely self-inflicted by greed and pernicious speculation.

But they still want their money back - did you not even notice OIL increased in price as soon as the house of cards started crumbling? If you can't rub two brain-cells together to make simple connections like this then there is no hope. There is not less OIL - for instance SA can keep pumping more out as it pleases, there are new reserves on the map everywhere...even 'apparently' empty basins refilling...and now we're being told " Oh hang on! We haven't even half emptied the North Sea reserves yet." Oh what a coincidence! It's a farce! Wake up!

When you monopolize and control the supply, you have complete control over the demand and it's price - it's that simple!(once the infrastructure is established)

They checkmate us at every turn - so long as we play their game.

The real-value of Gold over paper should not even need explaining. It's by no means perfect (even less so today with the 'in our faces' stock-market manipulation) but it has been rock steady through out the centuries, 'till the clan cleaned us out of it (even making it illegal in the US to even own gold during yet another artificial depression)...interestingly enough the same legislation is now in place in the US (for when certain very predictable conditions arise - you won't hear about it on their TV networks that's a fact!), brought in by stealth using the same age-old serpentile tactics.

Did you not even notice Traitor Brown sell off half the UK's Gold reserves for a song? Flooding the market with gold so the price dropped to almost nothing instead of (even) selling it in small amounts over time to keep the price high.

Manufacturing industry (real wealth) raped to the bone, abilty to feed ourselves through farming and livestock gone, apathy and indolence seemingly in the air we breathe, encouraged uncontrollable immigration, thought crimes, institutionalized indoctrination of unhealthy self-loathing for our past and heritage etc. We're now in the worst shape possible to face the turbulence ahead - an accident? No? - Maybe too busy saving up for a Plasma TV or some other piece of worthless junk you think you can't do without.

Just more mundane acts of treason from right under our noses - nothing to see here, go back to your Playstations.

The future is safe - yeh right!

I admit this topic is going askew, but nearly every problem we're facing, and have faced these past centuries arise from the same decayed source. It's all connected and immpossible to make sense of unless we get to the root.

Supposed OU devices would change the whole picture for us!

Imagine flourishing, lush green deserts for a start!

It's only a discussion at the end of the day. Believe me, if I'm right I wouldn't consider it a win. I hope you're right.

Hujiklo, insulting me is going to help isn't it. I guess you're one of these people who believes the world leaders are secretly reptiles. Well if you believe that then what can I say.

What do you mean why do we need inflation? Why do we need money? Anyway inflation has been around along time, since Roman times, and a small amount of inflation is good for the economy. You will find that our so-called worthwhile countries have significantly lower inflation rates than say Russia or Africa.

I'm already well-aware of inflation and currency-based conspiracy theories and it's going to take more than a few coincidences to convince me. You can make loads of connections but that doesn't imply corrolation.

I never said the future is safe. I just said we are wealthier with better qualities of life than ever before, and I'm an emprical person. I'm not going to be convinced that we're in some kind of economic meltdown when even after a depression we would still be better off than before these "evil things". To convince me you will need facts, not hearsay and connections. Anybody can connect anything to prove anything.


PS what is real wealth? I thought humans could appreciate abstract concepts too, not just physical ones. Manufactoring disappeared because it was no longer profitable - that's just the ugly side of capitalism. And since when were farmers exterminated? I must have missed that.

@ Czar Flavius
>I guess you're one of these people who believes the world leaders are secretly reptiles.<

They are reptiles. We have proof of this, because Margaret Thatcher was an old dragon. :D :P

Speaking of Gordon, have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1vwKZiDsY4

'Reptiles' ideally describes their loathsomeness, nothing more - parasites is probably even better!

These aren't coincidences - a coincidence once or twice maybe, but always?? Repeating history? Yeh - okay.

From right under your nose.

( The Youtube vid: I can't even laugh/look at these vermin anymore :( )

Well write a comprehensive list of these coincidences, and back them up with references, and I will consider it. They're right under our noses so should be easy job for you.

Oh come on, not even a little snigger at this?

lol :)

@ markcw...

LOL... It looks like old Gordie is about to say "BRAAAIIINNNZZZ !".

He's scarier than the psycho rag-doll that went after Savalis.