ReactOS

http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html





All sounds great. A free non-invasive WinXP-based O/S which allows the user get on with actually using the PC

I don't know whether they will ever get off the ground but it would be nice to have a bloat-free, spyware-free XP application and driver compatible O/S on the scene

More screen shots ..

I looked at this a while ago, but it still isn't ready for general use, and unfortunately, without a lot of support, it's always going to trail behind windows in the technology department.

Isnt this built on linux or is that the other one :/

No, it's not built on Linux. They are writing their own NT-compatible kernel.

What I still don't understand is why everyone is trying to create their own Windows clone. And that question includes all Linux development efforts that aim at cloning something that Windows is or has. Why aren't they trying to actually create something NEW?

There has been a few of these hasn't there, linux based and not.

MS seems to wait till the development team has put in a lot of time and effort and then shoot it down by issueing a court case, which forces them to stop.

According to the website its based on Fedora

Why do they try to clone it: Because the main user parts that you can grab ARE windows users.

Question yourself: why is linux even easily killed by OSX? why did OSX userbase double since X86 macs were introduced while the Linux userbased dropped in that time?

-> because nobody wants a half baked "innovative" idea.
That would have worked great 15 years ago but today you are dependent on professional working software. Only few sacrifice that for "great ideas but bad stability / feature / compatibility" GPL programs like OpenOffice (which isn't even capable of loading basic powerpoint presentations. No mather if they have been done by MS Office or Apples counterpart, without destroying the format information) and the like.

you hopefully aren't believing that such clone attempts are meant to be free ... not even XandrOS is and it is only "behavior like" a windows clone and otherwise a badly supported, yearly new buy linux distri.

I was wondering that. Whats the point in recreating a flawed out of date system? Why not build something new and better than the rest? :/

AmigaOS4 actually looks pretty good to me, I reckon it would be a nice windows alternative (if they ever released an x86 edition).

Although microsoft has a ~90% monopoly on the OS market, they harbor little love. There's many, many people who would love to stop supporting MS and move to something different, but are essentially locked in because some must-have programs they use are only available for windows.

I made a platform switch myself in the past (amiga -> PC) and it does suck when you have to give up a ton of very useful applications in the process.

If there were a 100% windows compatible OS out there, it would have pretty good market prospects, especially these days with the anti-vista resentment.

Anyway, there's a lot more potential for a company by having a windows-compatible Os than if they were to release 'just' another linux flavor -- there's already a lot of competition in that part of the market, with not much prospect for a ton of new people jumping ship away from Windows.

So would I, that's just common sense. No point wasting money on lawsuits for projects that won't go anywhere.

I can't get ReactOS it install on any piece of hardware I have, even old hardware.

@Dreamora
The problem with Linux is that there's no true standard. You have all these various distros doing there own thing in there own way. As for Mac's you should be asking how many people are dual/tripple (OSX/Windows/Linux) booting on mac hardware.

Ii looks like a fresh Windows 98 install... Dont know if I can get away with that nowadays.

there is one and it's called XP ;) I did an nlite install (used to get rid of unwanted features) of xp recently on my eeepc an it's fantastic, it boots up in about 10 seconds too.

As for spyware etc, I think the user has to take some responsibility for this. It's never been a problem for me

Linux userbase doubled last year, and had larger increase in percentage than Mac.

According which statistics?
Those I've seen so far always point the same out: linux used primary OS users to OSX while gaining secondary users (most likely from OSX - Linux dual installs)

Maybe the Linux user base doubled last year, but the questions are how many of them are using Linux as their main desktop OS and are they able to use Linux exclusively for their daily tasks? And the even more important question still is: How you can sell your own software to these people?

I'd probably use GNU/Linux or FreeBSD if I had to reboot civilization after World War III. But today I still do not see a way to make a living as an indie (non-games) developer on that platform where everybody expects everything to be free as in speech AND beer. Selling support contracts for your own software in almost all cases is an unrealistic fantasy for one-man armies, especially when you are not writing corporate software, and as we could see with Pegasus Mail, selling printed manuals while giving away the software for free also does not work.

GNU/Linux is fine when you are selling and supporting server platforms (like SUN, IBM, Novell and Red Hat). But there still is no business in GN/Linux (home) desktops.

I agree to Winni's point, and more, there's a problem:

"We have dozens of Linux Distros"

Maybe the Linux user base is bigger than Mac, but divide by the distros they become a very small number.

And, who pays the money? Mac users may just a small percent but they are those willing to pay $$ to developers, if GarageGames are not joking, 50% around income comes from MAC users.

I'm always surprised that people clever enough to write stuff like this can't see the obvious flaws in these kind of efforts.

This is another dead end open-source project that will end up abandoned.

Darkheart

Looks like a lot of eee PC users are doing the same thing too:

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewforum.php?id=13

I'm seriously tempted to get one of those eee's but I'm holding out for a larger screen version and more onboard storage. I do quite a bit of travelling so that little puppy would be perfect.

This is more a reference to the built-in spyware which not too many users are aware of:

http://www.microsuck.com/content/ms-hidden-files.shtml

http://www.imilly.com/alexa.htm

As well as all the phoning home that goes on behind the scenes. (Not only MS but just about every piece of software I install wants to do this nowadays)

Me for one, i do everything on ubuntu except b3d and any game i cannot run in wine. So does my mum now, she is useless with computers and just wants stuff to just "work", the same way every time (i do any admin for her via remote X through ssh). My dad (an ex-IT proff.) who now runs a small biz is trying it out and seems impressed so far. Some of my collegues at work use it as their primary OS too. My GF also likes it better as there are no wireless dropout problems on her PC when running it.

Things I can do in ubuntu just as well as i can in windows:
-Play MP3s, Games and videos (not yet missed a codec).
-3D modelling (blender, AC3D, Wings and am considering buying MAYA or XSI next time im feeling very rich)
-2D Graphics (Paintshop Pro 9* and gimp (could have photoshop* too but dont want/need it)).
-Edit Videos / digital camera pics / sound effect editing
-Use my tablet and "space mouse"
-Videophone / Chat using MSN, ICQ, Skype etc
-3G broadband (when out and about)
-Syncronise my PDA
-Email, browse web, ftp etc.
-Website design
-Office stuff
-VMware
-Programming in blitzmax/minib3d/irrlicht & learning C++
-Run a web/print/file/ssh server
-Google earth (A must have of course :)
-Other stuff (cant think right now)
(* Needs Wine for PaintShop/PhotoShop)


Things i still need windows for:
-B3d stuff, running b3d based tools and Giles
-Cams on skype (although skype are supposed to be working on this. Can use cameras in AMSN tho :)
-Odd misc nicknacks like the "IKEA home designer" (just bought a place and needed a new kitchen :)

Despite popular myths Ive, never had to compile anything except my own stuff. I and every other linux users I know are not zealots of the "Everythings gotta be free!" ideology and will buy software if its useful. Personally I have never really had any serious problems on ubuntu with "non standard" standards as it is pretty standard (except the latest releases as they tend to be a bit ''bleeding edge'').

I've seen that Microsuck site before and it's a load of bull, it would only fool people who don't know anything about computers (which sadly is a lot of people). Having file attributes (e.g.hidden and system) is NORMAL and has been the case in most operating systems for a long time. It's just a hoax site trying to scare people.

The other site looks the same kind of thing: out dated, innaccurate twaddle.

If you think about it logically you'd quickly understand that:

A) Microsoft DON'T NEED to install spyware on your computer or monitoring what's on or what your doing on your PC without your consent.

B) Effectively analysing all the data from every Windows PC would require a HUGE team of people and cost probably more than Microsoft makes.

C) Keeping such an operation a secret on such a scale would be utterly impossible and nobody has ever come up with any convincing evidence that Microsoft is doing this. In a world were what the president does with his intern in the the privacy of his own office is broadcast all over the world I just don't think it's credible.

Isn't it just MUCH more likely that there is no conspiracy, no evil empire, that Microsoft is just another company trying to make the best products it can and balancing this with it's other commerical needs and limits, or is that too sane?

I always think these kind of conspiracy theory are just people pandering to their own vanity, "I'm important, they must be insterested in what I'm doing!". The sad truth is more likely nobody gives a damn what your doing.

Darkheart

Ahh right, my bad sorry.

Of course, looking at their roadmap, it's most likely years away from being half-way usable:

http://www.reactos.org/en/about_roadmap.html

What would be nice would be an entirely new OS.

QNX was going to be it, but then it died and it's now an OS for embedded systems (mainly).

BeOS was going to be it, but then it died.

I really liked BeOS. It was going to be the OS of choice for all those ex-Amiga users which had been forced into the x86 realm (kicking and screaming).

C'est la vie.

SkyOS is shaping up nicely.. :)
http://www.skyos.org

>>>Of course, looking at their roadmap, it's most likely years away from being half-way usable:

yup, i heard, that they rewrote ReactOS for easier developement - and this needed many of time - but now new releases should come faster...

I think ReactOS have more chance than linux. You can easier use old Win-Software and Driver - that's it!

And MS can do nothing! It is possible that here come no CD with PC magazines... but you could download it always from internet (sources or binaries)

tbh linux has Cedega which most people will use if they want to play the games.

You would be surprised at what MS lawyers can do.

>>>You would be surprised at what MS lawyers can do.

em... ReactOS use no MS-codes. ReactOS use no registered MS-Names. ReactOS can only confilicts with some MS-software-patents...

And this patents are all useles in... china or somewhere else.. - you understand?

But this will not make ReactOS illegal. You could use it and sleep nice at night without worries.

I know no opensource-project, that was killed by MS... you?

It doesn't matter, if MS doesn't want it released all they have to do is start a court case. The lawyers can then bog it down in the courts with technicalities and lawyer fees, until the developers have to give in and stop the project to get thier lives back.

In whos backyard? MS hold hardly any legal clout in most of central asia, russia, china, south america or Africa. Even Europe is beginning to loose its patience and are already after them for several anti-competition violations, so i doubt theyd get much sympathy here either. Remember they tried it with linux, oo.o etc and failed miserably.


IMO, While theres nothing wrong with normal patents to protect new ideas and innovation, so called 'super patents' actually harm and hold back new development rather than inspire it. Once something becomes such a well used standard (like "NT standards" or "x86 archtecture") saturating 80-90% of a market then its patent should (in a fair system) be made non-renewable after a reasonable period of time. (not talking about copyright theft, thats a totally different thing).

Lars, have you used it at all? I just watched the demo video and it looked smart :D

SkyOS is closed source and costs money (you preorder the final OS and get to access all the beta versions for free).

It has no support for any WiFi hardware (lack of device driver)

It has no 3D acceleration support for any video card on the market.

Whilst it has some POSIX compliance, it is not always trivial to port Linux or *BSD software. There is no port of OpenOffice, for instance.

Some or most of the binaries in current beta builds still contain debug symbols, causing bloat and speed issues.

Monolithic kernel.

Some of the very worst PR activity ever expressed in an online forum.

I've had a read through the API documentation. Whilst being quite feature-rich, it really is a badly designed API that is non-extendible without breaking things.

BeOS was the only x86 OS that showed any kind of elegance.

Woe is us :(

Haiku is a project to essentially clone BeOS R5 and then develop from there. Not exactly ready for the desktop, but it's progressively improving with time.

cheers vinyl, I must admit I was instantly put off by the 30€ price tag to download the beta (ie. buy a "membership")

I wasn't put off by it, but I wanted to see the justification for it. I immediately piled in to the API docs because these, more than anything, would be the driving force for me purchasing a new OS.

The reason for this is I liked programming for the Amiga. By the time Amiga OS3.1 came along, a lot of the OS routines could be called by using a list of variable arguments. Clean, efficient and extremely extendible with a nice automatic way of deprecating old arguments, introducing new features and maintaining backwards compatability without having to keep different library versions on disc (or provide different versions for each program).

Windows is the exact opposite (in some ways) and I despise its kludgyness and inefficiency.

Digging through the SkyOS API, it seems fairly clean but also extremely rigid. I may have read it wrong but it appears that old code would break very easily if any API calls had their arguments shuffled or replaced.

So, I then went hunting on the forum to see what feedback there was, what work still needed doing and what the devlopers really thought of it.

What I saw was a lot of arrogance from the top guys. This instantly turned me off.

Not only was I being asked to pay money for a beta OS with no guarantee that it would ever be finished (because there is only one developer and it's compeltely closed source) but I got the impression that I could like it or lump it.

Thanks, but I'll go with Haiku!