Unrealistically large EULA's

Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Unrealistically large EULA's

Whats with the 100+page EULA's that come with software nowadays?

How many of you, like me, just click the "I have read and understood the terms of the aggreement" option?

For as long as I live I'll NEVER fully understand all the crap that they write in there. In fact, I would have next to nothing installed on the PC if I did.

Seriously, what is the point of trying to come across all smart and clever with a massive EULA thinking you have the end user screwed to the ground?

How do you know *who* installed the software?
Where is the proof of *who* uses the program?

It equally annoys me that ELUA's can effectively change at any time and therefore the end user is expected to keep up to speed with the latest version.

Bottom line is, why do software distributors think that they are lawyers?

CS_TBL

For all I care they can even c/p the Harry Potter episodes there. Bottomline is:

1) you want to install software
2) you can only click [next] when you agree on the EULA
3) thus, you click 'I agree'

So, does it matter what the EULA says anyway?

Lumooja

I would write in my EULA.TXT just something like:
"Don't warez or use a warez0red version of this program or any files of it, because it's against the law. Don't do anything else which is against the law either."
The benefits of this EULA are obvious:
- it's so short that everyone can read it completely
- even c00l d00dz and kids understand the language, and not only lawyers after 10 years of studying the "alien law language"

GfK

So, does it matter what the EULA says anyway?

Yes. You don't get to read the EULA before you buy the software, so if you buy software then don't agree to the EULA you're entitled to a full refund.

I do agree though - most EULAs are dressed up in a load of legal mumbo jumbo that average Joe doesn't understand anyway.

Also, I noted recently that some portals state "once you buy a game you own it forever". This is untrue - the only thing you own is a licence to use the software. You never ever own the software itself.

CS_TBL

But how often does it happen you don't agree to the EULA? And even if you do, does it overrule the original plan of using the software? Imagine you'd really really really like to use Photoshop, and you don't find the Gimp or PSP (or similar tools) a good alternative. Imagine that suddenly the Photoshop EULA doesn't suit you.. then what? As my primary goal was using Photoshop I'd think I'd swallow whatever there was in that EULA.

Ginger Tea

usage of this program [ hering known simply as photoshop] prohibits you from
*making or altering images to make them pornographic
*anthropormorphic alterations of images especially if it makes the image pornographic
*bla
*bla
*bla

i think that would knock out alot of photoshopers :))

edit: but they are full of mumbo jumbo lawer speak that the average joe glazes over at
if the campaign for real english had some solid guidelines for this it would probably read more like

thank you for purchacing a licence for this program (yes a licence not the program itself see x.xx)
please dont
* make copies of this program, a back up for personal use is ok but a back up only
* give this disc to a mate to install (its not nice ask him to buy his own)
* normal sensible understandable english (or other language) short and simple and NO CAPS PARAGRAPHS were told thats like shouting and that seems like it could do your vocal cords alot of damage

but how would the lawyers earn their money?
chasing ambulances

Dreamora

out of swiss law its unimportant whats within the EULA. if it is something that is not "standard" and assumed to be there, its just declared void. point.
the rest of it isn't touched by that.

Sledge

Also, I noted recently that some portals state "once you buy a game you own it forever". This is untrue - the only thing you own is a licence to use the software. You never ever own the software itself.

You make that your sales pitch, then ;P

dawlane

"Bottom line is, why do software distributors think that they are lawyers?"

No, distributors can only dream of earning that kind of money.

"Whats with the 100+page EULA's that come with software nowadays?"

It's so if the software crashes your computer and the said machine decides to run off with the wife/girl friend. You can't sue them for the loss of your true love (the PC).

P.Weijtenburg

#10

legal mumbo jumbo

HAHAHA!

Genexi2

#11

All for passing a law requiring that EULAs use Simplified English say I.

What's been annoying me lately are EULAs that force you to scroll to the bottom of the EULA itself before the Next button is enabled, so I have to do the extra step of clicking the text box and hitting End.

Perturbatio

#12

All for passing a law requiring that EULAs use Simplified English say I.

Wouldn't you prefer they say aye? :)

Genexi2

#13

Was going to put 'aie' initially, but couldn't remember the proper spelling, so I chose the other route. <.<

Ginger Tea

#14

wow ive just re read this cos of the legal mumbo jumbo quote
didnt realise id paraphrased gfk so much there ;)

Ginger Tea

#15

na if your going to type aie change the i to an l

ale :) real beer

ImaginaryHuman

#16

I usually just click the button. .. I'm probably being held to fifteen different license agreements all claiming to own parts of my person and yet all contradicting each other.

Ginger Tea

#17

*knock knock*
"hello?"
"its tuesday"
"yes but who are you"
"its tuesday and as you agreed to our EULA we are here to [use your imagination] you"
...
"ok see you next tuesday"

FlameDuck

#18

How many of you, like me, just click the "I have read and understood the terms of the aggreement" option?

Me. But then again I live in a country where they're practically all void (because they clash with inalienable rights).

So, does it matter what the EULA says anyway?

Depends on which country you live in. In most cases the EULA is there to appease governments (like the retarded restriction on using iTunes for producing WMD's is so Apple can export it to certain black listed countries, not because anyone actually thinks iTunes is a viable WMD component).

JustLuke

#19

I've never read an EULA in my life and I don't expect to do so any time soon. As far as I'm concerned, if I've bought something then I'll do what I like with it.

Jim Brown

#20

You don't get to read the EULA before you buy the software, so if you buy software then don't agree to the EULA you're entitled to a full refund

Accept the dilema there is, you need to 'open' the box to get at the CD where the EULA is stored. After which time a lot of stores would refuse a refund because the box has been opened. Case in point:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/02/10/190242.shtml?tid=123

Interesting reply from that link being:

This is exactly why a EULA is not enforcable, actually. You buy the software at a retailer, and you are the "owner" at that point. You have created a valid contract of sale by giving cash for goods. The standard argument for EULA enforcability is that the EULA is part of the contract of sale, but that is untenable because the software maker (in this case Microsoft) is not a party to that contract and cannot retroactively modify it. Thus to be enforcable, the EULA must stand on its own. But 17 USC 117 gives the "owner" the right to install software on "a" machine. Thus the EULA gives the owner nothing that he didn't have as a result of "first sale", and the EULA fails to be an enforcable contract due to lack of "consideration".

The world seems to be unaware that when you own a copy of software, you DO NOT NEED A LICENCE TO INSTALL IT ON A SINGLE COMPUTER. This is the black letter law. 17 USC 117

Has anyone tried to return software after disagreeing with the EULA?

Garion

#21

Has anyone tried to return software after disagreeing with the EULA?

yes I have done this several times in the past 20 odd years, each time I met resistance until I pointed out that a companys policy does not take precedence to the laws of the land, in this case Scotland.

I had one manager threaten me with the Police, so I told him to carry on.. I still got my refund.

Cheers

Garion

Storm8191

#22

edit: but they are full of mumbo jumbo lawer speak that the average joe glazes over at
if the campaign for real english had some solid guidelines for this it would probably read more like

thank you for purchacing a licence for this program (yes a licence not the program itself see x.xx)
please dont
* make copies of this program, a back up for personal use is ok but a back up only
* give this disc to a mate to install (its not nice ask him to buy his own)
* normal sensible understandable english (or other language) short and simple and NO CAPS PARAGRAPHS were told thats like shouting and that seems like it could do your vocal cords alot of damage

That there would be great and all, but to a lawyer it just won't work. Now, suppose someone emailed a friend a copy of their software. You would go to press charges and they'd say "but I didn't give them a disk, there's nothing in the EULA saying anything about emailing".

And from problems like that, the average EULA grows even longer...

Has anyone tried to return software after disagreeing with the EULA?

Hmm, I should try that myself sometime - I once got an expansion pack for christmas, to a game I didn't have. Didn't realize it till I tried to install the game. Sure makes the purchase useful to me!