Why Linux is cool

Well, my most recent find is that I can create pdf's using Open Office (within Fedora Linux which is within VMware on my XP box!)

maybe protracted - I intend to try my BMax install (within my VMWare Linux) one day....

If i Compile a BMax app within my Fedora4 Linux will the exe run on all flavours of Linux?

Okay, Linux has finished booting (on this machine - within VMWare....), so I'm off into Linux world.

Appreciate there is a Linux thread, but thought the pdf generator tool would be useful for XP ites.

Anyone else rate Linux....

Iam using Open office in Vista.

no wm ware..

I also tryed blitz3d in linux and it dint install..

But blitz pluss works i think :)

Well, Mac OS X has PDF creation options everywhere. Guess that's the main reason it's cooler than Linux. Apart from the user interface, that it's based on BSD and the better drivers. Oh, this wasn't a OS thread? Sorry, thought so because of the thread title...

Open Office has a PDF export on windows too.

However, Linux is cool (albeit limited in it's use at the moment).

It will take a couple of major software manufacturers releasing their software for linux in order to make it more widely spread.

As a minority OS, its okay... Would I work in it full time, no chance!

Dabz

As long as I am on the x86 platform, I'd rather use FreeBSD than GNU/Linux, because I think it has a cleaner design, is more consistent and actually faster.

The greatest advantage of Linux, however, is its ubiquity and that it allows you to use languages like Java and Python on any conceivable hardware platform and it gives you full control over everything because you actually get the source code for everything. So in case you have to bootstrap civilization again after another World War, GNU/Linux would be the best choice.

Still, OS X is my desktop platform of choice, mainly because the applications that I want to use neither exist for Windows nor GNU/Linux.

Linux (and particularly Ubuntu) is certainly getting better and better as time goes on, but the PDF thing is easily taken care of in Windows by all of these apps, which install dummy printer drivers that direct output to a PDF file instead of a printer; this means you can output PDF files from any Windows program that supports printing:

http://www.cutepdf.com/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/
http://www.pdf995.com/

All that said, OpenOffice can output PDFs in the Windows version anyway! (This is not a slight on Linux... I imagine in a year or two I'll move there permanently.)

Thanks for the extra info on pdf generators. As a 'free' OS Linux is certainly improving, when compared to 150 pounds vista, theres 150 reasons to consider go linux.

I'm rooted within XP at the mo due to the sheer volume of apps I have within it. Linux does have it's uses though..... the appeal of cross platform development intrigues me.

Ubuntu has a File -> PDF printer driver available out of the box, which is a good thing because I hate OpenOffice. (It is the one app that people tend to print a lot from, and it doesn't use the desktop's native printing dialog. GREAT!).


Worth noting that GNOME 2.20 has now been released, which you can learn about here, and on the GNOME web site here.

Linux is my primary BlitzMax platform. All my modules are developed on Linux first, then tweaked on the other platforms as required.

It has all the tools I need to develop with, is efficient, and gives me complete control over everything.

If I want a PDF, I tend to use my Mac though ;-)

Between the two, I am neutral. I could use either primarily, since they essentially are the same under the hood (semantics aside!).
At the moment Linux is ahead here because it has a faster CPU, and my development cycle requires lots of recompiles...

just had a peek at your worklog Brucey, you have been busy!

OSX/PDF saving=hitting Apple+P in the application of your choice; OSX/PDF reading=doubleclick the document

Linux is certainly getting better - I think the current Ubuntu is certainly on par with least Windows 2000 with stability, performance and general easy of use. So far all my hardware has been recognised and works well

Unfortunately where Linux falls down is the graphics drivers - its a bit of a pain (although fairly easy) to have to complete the stuff. And watch out when X11 is updated...

OSX makes everything simple, which makes it so nice and simple to use.

Ubuntu is more stable than 2k, XP and Vista put together. Ive been using it for 3 years and it has never crashed the kernel once. (im not mentioning vista as it has yet to prove itself vs XP in my book).

I dual boot Linux/XP with the GRUB default being Ubuntu after a 5 sec delay.
I do everything in Ubuntu except play (windows) games and my b3d stuff. Some software I use open-office, Rplayer(video), Songbird(Mp3), a video editor (cant remember name), gimp, photoshop(wine), ac3d and blender. I also have a VMware2K to do some (non-3D) windows stuff like without having to reboot. All my windows machines hold no data, this is stored on the Ubuntu machine on network drives so i can access it from any PC including the VMware one.

This works fine for me. I especially like the way its just ready to use, straight away after boot (about 1-2 mins) without any of the bs.

Problem is for me, it may be up to a week or more before i need to boot windows each time, so when i use windows now, it takes between 10 and 20 minutes before the PC becomes useable thanks to virus updates and obligatory scan, windows updates, messangers that have to load pages of ads, a fancy printer manager that i hardly use that loads even though i have no intention of printing, then the usual pop-ups about unused icons and other annoyances.

I would say it is cool because it is so much faster, more secure, more reliable and customisable, you start with a more basic system and you add the bits you want. You can choose your own look and feel to it and customize almost everything. Rather than starting with all bells and whistles that are fiddily (if not impossible) to get rid of. Also theres hardly any viruses, spyware or pop-ups unless you want them to be there. Some windows games can be adapted to run under it if they support alternative OGL renderers like HL & WoW. The hardware support (despite some opinion) is actually getting much much better than before. V7 detected everything ive got in 2 different laptops and my desktop and worked out of the box, with no additional drivers needed. The only problem i have had is with a wireless card which i just replaced at the cost of $20 (no biggie) after looking up a suitable one on the forum.

Its not cool in the fact that its a fair bit more technical than windows and requires re-training the way you think about the way the filesystem works. Overcomming initial frustrations that something wont work the way it 'should', when it does work, it just does it in a different and often better way. Also there is limited software choice compared to windows. Running windows games in wine can be a real mission to set up sometimes - which is why i tend to dual boot. There is also some problems finding drivers for dodgy hardware (ie, unknown stuff or where the chipset has loads of stupid versioning involved)

Life is hard enough. I don't need further obstacles, so no Linux here...

I made my switch to Ubuntu 7 fulltime, a few weeks ago.
I used it before, but it was still lacking then.

Atm, I can't find any reason to go back to Windows. Ubuntu 7 has it all, and 95% of it comes out of the box, ready to use with no hassle at all.

Even World of Warcraft runs like a charm through Wine.

In October, Ubuntu 8 comes out with yet a lot more improvements and additions. Can't wait :D

How do you upgrade Linux with a new version ? I too will probably get Ubuntu 8 when it comes out.

Same as windows (on ubuntu anyway), you get automatic updates, they are just not 'in your face' all the time and you don't get 'forced' reboots with a time limit. It wont tell you to upgrade a major version (ie 7.xx to 8.xx) until the 'end of support life' of the previous version, so if you want the latest primary version quicker you need to download the latest ISO.

My vista haset failed me once. i used it for 30 days now
And it come with computer.

The XP machine had oblivion installed. and it crashed and crashed all time cause of oblivionl

As long as i stay out of oblivion it is stable too.

Yes, I would need the latest ISO download, but does the installation reformat the hard drive, or would it just update everything ?

False. In october, Ubuntu 7.10 comes.

The versioning system of Ubuntu works in the following way: The first number is the year in which it were released. The second one is the month. The last version released to date was Feisty Fawn, which were release on April, 2007. Thus, the version number is 7.04. Next version, Gutsy Gibbon, will be released on October, 2007. The version number will be 7.10.

After that, a new version will be released in April, 2008. It will be 8.04, and so on.

Good question! Im sure theres a way to simply upgrade.

Last time i did it I wanted a clean install as I had done some inexperienced messing about and wanted to ensure it was nice and clean.

Heres how i made it as painless as possible while ensuring a nice clean install:

I copied my "etc" (the linux equivalent of the registry i guess :/) and "home" folder (which contain all program settings & user data) to a usb HDD (or use DVD(s)).

re installed it and once in do any updates and simply tick all your programs in synaptic that you need, and let them all install themselves (no babysitting - clickclick, next , next , next , next , next needed :). Then do the ones from automatix that you use, (although last time it took them a week or two before the fiesty version became available).

Once done copy the HOME folder back as is but DO NOT copy back "etc", this could break stuff!! (unless its the same version). Only use it as a reference guide to edit your customised xorg.conf, smb.conf, fstab etc. (if this is even needed!) Bare in mind these files may have additional parameters specific to that version so only change the relevant stuff..

All the programs should then be set up exactly the way you left them, settings, email and all!

The whole process takes about 1-4 hours depending on experience & data. Last time i re installed windows + all software + data it took all day (and into the evening).

There may even be a better or automatic way of doing this, but this is how i do it :)

This month fixed my final few problems with ubuntu on my machine- come october, I will likely move to it fulltime and use wine for all my windows stuff. my messaging apps etc all work fine through wine....

This is also great for running XP stuff in Ubuntu ('cept for 3d stuff)
http://www.easyvmx.com - creates a virtual machine that you can use smb to access files on the host machine (so theres no need to store anything in the virtual one, and because its not emulated it runs more apps with less problems :)
You also need to install the player from vmware (see links)

The update manager used in Ubuntu also informs you of new releases, so when 7.10 comes out, it will have a button somewhere that you can click. Completely automatic, and you only have to restart the computer once, when it's finished, to use the new kernel.

There's a PDF plugin for MS Office as well...

and there are some freeware virtual PDF printers, like CutePDF -- install in windows, and it gives you a 'PDF printer'. Any program that can print can then output to PDF.

(file -> Print -> PDF printer gives you a file requester instead asking for a destination .PDF file)

It's not really based on BSD as such, it's based on NeXTSTeP, which shares common ancestors to BSD. The user interface is just a dumbed down version of Compiz. As for better drivers, apart from "better" being entirely subjective, it's more a matter of less hardware diversity.

As to why Linux is cool? Bleeding edge is always cool!

That is so cool.....

Sounds like an easy way to do it!

that bleeding-edge video looks awesome :)

I love the way with the eyecandy stuff you can so easily turn it ALL on and off in one go, whenever you want with no ill-effects whatsoever :)
This one looks very similar to my ubuntu-beryl (aesthetic-wise) when i turn on all the bollox : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=684OLRsTrrs
Except i am inside the cube, not outside it, oh and minus the "Mac" desklets cos i hate em!

ubuntu plus beryl's pretty awesome also, especially the cube.. :)

Sometimes it's really strange how fortuity plays into. Got yesterday a visit from a friend of mine and we also strifed Linux shortly whilst talking about audio and here is what he had experienced last weekend whilst wanting to trying out Linux for an older computer he's not using anymore. He's downloaded the latest versions from the net, only SUSE was provided with a DVD from a magazine.

o SUSE: Installed but no drivers for the modem were available. Awfully slow due to no gfx hardware acceleration.
o Ubuntu: Terminated installation because of the mainboard (problems with PCI if i remember correctly).
o Knoppix: Worked from the Live-CD but again was awfully slow due to the missing gfx hardware acceleration and running from memory/cd. He couldn't get it installed on the harddrive. He later on found information on the net how this should work.
o Kanotix: Terminated installation due to the SCSI-controller.

o Windows Millenium: Worked and was fast, all hardware was detected properly.

Well in general I have the opposite problem: no driver for NEW hardware...

I guess this is just the bleeding part of the bleeing edge linux experience...

Sounds like you got unlucky there taumel, but you mentioned windows millenium (AKA hacked around windows 98 with dos removed and a few extra drivers and eyecandy). Was the pc you were trying it on shipped with windows millenium? As about that time there was some horrifically crap generic nasty devices (esp. packard bell bundles) bundled into. Yes linux can sometimes be a pain to set up, but once it is set up, its solid and (when you know what you are doing!) it is a dream to use.


If the card is indeed GL compatible (and not a DX only b*tch, or ATI which need a lot of poking) then it sounds like you simply lack the knowlage to get it working (i dont mean that in a nasty way, i had the same problem :), some distros use the failsafe VESA mode if it cannot resolve your card (exactly like windows does sometimes when it needs the driver disk) Drivers for all NVIDIA and ATI cards are available and there are instructions on most distro forums for any 'difficult' cards.

It must have been a really crap unknown motherboard Ive NEVER had this on any of the laptops or desktops ive installed it on or heard of anyone getting this problem.

See suse. Some live cds are simply set up for vesa mode only as it makes them compatible with everything (just like XP live utility disks use standard vesa & 8 or 16 bit color).

Great!.... Try using it lol ;)

I could tell you about many, many horror stories about windows not working for some reason on hardware that was built for it, i work with it and have to fix it every day in my main job on a range of PCs (IT support), 98/ME usually always needed an extra driver disk to get hardware working properly, XP is really good for hardware supportand cannot fault it (even though it requires the odd disk). Vista however currently supports less hardware than most modern linux distros.

Well, like in the other thread it seems like you're not really understanding what others are writing otherwise a.o. you would have noticed that it wasn't me but nevermind. He mentioned a ASUS board and a GeForce3 for the other components by the way.

Well, I've only used Fedora/Red hat versions of Linux. My linux is booting up within VMWare as I write this, as fars as Milennium is concerned - that'd some pretty awkward foibles when trying to network.

Horses for courses, I still rate Linux, and when support for XP expires in say 5 to 8 years - it'll be my OS of choice instead of the costly vista.

Cheers (;-)

touche' simply change 'you' to 'your friend' :P
It sounded like you were there with him as you had such a good description of problems.
Ive got an asus board and have had geforce 2,4, fx5200 all working with little poking. My ATI cards needed lot of poking but was easily fixed from the forums

PS: what other thread?

I suspect in 5-8 years we're in the post vista era already. I think he used Millenium due to the low memory configuration (256MB) in the machine. At least it's good enough to play System Shock 2 for instance.

Nah, It's a problem with Ubuntu 7 (or rather X11 and nVidia drivers). Get version 6.06 instead, or do a text-based install and change the drivers to VESA until you've installed the non-free nVidia driver.

I had the same problem (sort of) with a year old Dell machine - Ubuntu Live worked fine, no problems there. However, as soon as you try to install - no go; the installation program just hangs (wont even get to the country selection screen). As far as I can tell its the graphics card being a problem (internal Intel one).

Interesting,
taumel, i appologise for being so gauche, it seems you were right about the MB, never seen it on all the odd machines ive installed it on tho, and this has now been fixed for the latest version comming out october time. :/
I reckon however if he used the alternative (text based) install he might get some joy or use v6 as flame suggested till the update comes out (assuming he isnt the type to quit at the first hurdle).

flame, is this with the live CD or the non-graphical install. I usually use the latter as its faster and have not heard of anyone i know having problems with it (except the usual need to switch 3D accel on manually & the odd wireless card not working etc)

It's a problem with the Live CD. IIRC it occurs if you have a specific nVidia chipset, on certain Intel northbridge chipsets. Using the latest non-free nVidia drivers worked for me.

At least that was the problem I was having with a friends laptop, which had similar symptoms. The issue here might be unrelated. :o>

Hmmm, the threads creeping into why Linux ain't so cool, maybe I should've been more specific on the flavour of linux.

I Still rate fedora/red hat. (;-)

I dont think it is, the majority of posts are quite positive. To put it back on track : i use ubuntu and its very good. It has always installed for me and my friends first time, sometimes with some minor tweaking . Runs smooth and efficiently, synaptic installs all the apps from a tick list with no babysitting required, automatix sets it up with all the cool stuff like codecs, players, chat and other tools. The bleeding edge stuff makes all other OS-GUIs look primative (if thats your thing). The linux filesystem once you understand it is actually very well organised and easy to navigate. Its faster, apps like open office on my machine loads in about 2 seconds (and my machine isnt great). The extra security and lack of annoying stuff is great.

Havent tried redhat much, in what ways does it have any advantages over ubtu?

haven't tried ubtu, so don't know if its better/worse. Just know redhat / fedora works great within VMWare on my XP machine.

Using Windows today, I actually missed having multiple panels and proper menu accelerators, I was horrified at how cluttery my desktop became, and I decided not to bother updating BlitzMax (mostly due to the pain involved with Mingw).

Looks like I will never be going back...

Amusing event: A while ago, I could not get Sam & Max Season 1 to work in Windows. Something (probably time) had incinerated the registry, making the installer whine and complain. It was not happening, and I could not be bothered to fix it. Restarted into Ubuntu, and it was working well in Wine within minutes. It is very telling that Windows games would work better in a Linux distro than a Windows installation.

ATI is finally making decent Linux drivers, by the way. 8.41 is already lightyears ahead of how it was before, giving me almost equal graphics performance to what I get in Windows, and at least twice the performance I was getting before.
Considering the driver isn't even intended for my graphics card, that's pretty impressive.
8.42, being the 'real' Linux driver release built for more than one piece of hardware, will be very exciting.
Still doesn't like Compiz, though, which is a shame because I have become addicted to it.

They are also releasing a lot more information about the hardware, so the open source drivers will be catching up, too.

Im using windows too. Vista. Yeah.

Oh dear god its bad (after using my PC with the way i have my ubuntu set up, which is nothing like the default anymore!) If it wasnt for B3D, a few games and the fact im an IT engineer who will eventually have to know vista like i know XP i would literally burn my Vista DVD and watch the sucker melt.

If all those who diss linux could simply get past the initial headache of installing it, configuring it so it does exactly what they want - which can be a right headache! I think they would really begin to see what we are on about. Simply running a live CD (mabe installing) and taking a sniff round the apps menu sure isnt using it.

They just can't okay. Besides you shouldn't encourage them, they deserve to use Vista. Seriously. People who accept that a $2000 dollar computer should be slow and unresponsive, are just going to have to figure out how to live with it and stop complaining.

It's Practical Darwinism baby!

You may have a point there :P

However, Ive been experimenting on my girlfriend !(BWAHAHAHA) she is a typical user and 100% linux noob, and not so good in windows either. On her laptop she has Ubuntu as the default OS and windows for when we play the odd co-op game.

Her ubuntu installation I have set up to be foolproof. It has all IM clients covered by gaim and skype. Open office, all audio/video codecs and web plugins. Several desktop themes and optional eyecandy, It has a photo manager for her camera/mobile. Wireless networking all configured and ready for connection anywhere. Basically I set up everything I think she could ever want or need as a 'normal' user.

She reckons it irritates her far less than using XP and is incredibly simple to use, nothing crashes and its always just ready to go from booting up without any eggtimers / delays etc. Funnily enough she asks me many more "Whys is this not working" questions when she is using windows, my favorite being "whys this running so slow all of a sudden!!" ;)

So its great for absolute noobs too :) (you just need an advanced user to set up or change (or break :) anything - also a good thing sometimes ;)

Yes, I realise that. If you have the choice between learning to use Windows, or learning to use Linux the difference is trivial. My grandmother runs Xandros.

Well, My grandmother runs bingo :P

@flameDuck: LOL {;-)

@D4NM4N:

A good point, might have to go for a dual boot linux affair soon, rather than having my fedora buried inside VMWare within XP. Ubuntu sounds pretty stable..... I'm intrigued about installing a Linux OS on a memory stick, then attempting boot from USB. 4GBytes will set you back £29, would damn small linux be the best option for this?

regards, Blitzplotter.

DSL would fit in 50 meg. But its by default very basic and limiting with limited HW support (although as it is debian so you can build it up by enabling & using apt-get if you know what u are doing.

You could try Xubuntu which is a skinny version of ubuntu. Never used it tho'

I would go the whole hog and 50-50 partition the thing intall ubuntu proper - just install windows first (as its a bit fussy) and make at least a 1GB partition of "linux-swap" but dont use any swap on a mem stick or it will die quickly :)

Btw, 7.10 is out in 5 days and it has several new hardware compatability fixes and is much better than 7.04 for the latest hardware, including a X window graphics failsafe. (rather than the old "cannot start X server" message).

I've got some free time in a week, coincides nicely with 7.10 release. could be a good time to do ubuntu 7.10. Cheers D4NM4N