CPU Overheating?

OK, I'm a bit of a diddy when it comes to solving computer hardware issues. For the last week, any time I did anything processor intensive i.e. run a 3d app/game, burn a DVD etc.. my compy just shuts itself down and reboots after a couple of mins. No issues with general applications or surfing.

I got a new fan and it's working fine but the problem hasn't gone away. It's clear that the system is overheating but I'm loathe to get a new processor etc.. and go through the hastle of backing up and re-installing everything so wonder if anyone has any advise as to what may be the issue, whether they have experienced this and what best to try.

Any help or advice much appreciated .. oh and bear in mind my first scentence ;)

Cheers
Stevie

When you say this, do you mean you have evidence other than the things you've said in this thread? Because otherwise, what you've described could equally be caused by a dying power supply. Your pc would run fine until it started drawing more power ( like spinning up a dvd burner or putting your graphics card to serious use. )

Yes - I checked the bios on bootup and the cpu is running at around 70 degrees normally - should be in the 30's I'm told?

I had something similar, and as Gabriel mentioned it could be the power supply.

It was easy to identify for me because my graphics card TOLD me there wasn't enough power and that it would lower it's speed. I upgraded my power supply from 400W to 800W. Not every graphics card will do that.

[Edit]

Mine's running at 40 degrees at the moment. Check ALL fans, check your case airflow - no cables blocking the flow of air for a start.

I would be suspicious of the power supply.

Don't forget the fan in the power supply.

Which CPU is it? (You can use a program like SIW to find out).

Which new fan is it? How much Thermal paste was applied?

How old, which brand and at what is the Wattage of the PSU (Power Supply Unit)?

Depends on the CPU. Most CPU's won't crap out until they hit 90 (Centigrade).

A non overclocked CPU usually will hold on in most situations concerning heat. Memory can corrupt, if they are of low quality and / or incompatible nature to your mothebroard and chipset, or your bios configuration.

Or, your PSU could be going. I'd opt for that.

Depending on room temperature and CPU load this temperature is normal. Got values like this often the last ten years - and no cpu ever died, so don't worry.

Maybe build a cooking plate on top and make yourself some ham and eggs.

Jake

PS: If you make yourself some ham and eggs on your cpu, don't forget to show it on YouTube - you might get famous!

Lets face it, it could be a partialy melted/split wire, that as the computer heatsup seperates.

To be honest, best bet is to swap out compounents with ones you know work, uptil it stops faulting.

(Id vote for the PSU as the first port of call, then the GPU)

Thanks for the response folks!


I know tha one :) It's a Intel P4 HT 3.0 ghz



Arctic Freezer of something like that. There was plenty of paste from the previous fan but did put a reasonable amount on.

Not sure about the power supply but the memory etc. wasn't' cheap and nasty, was compatible with motherboard and bios etc...

In fact when running blitz a few months ago I got the following message all the time.... "Runtime Error abnormal Program termination " which seemed to go away when rebooting. I'll check the current message later but think it was similar. I guess it could be memory related?

I leave my PC on most of the time and on the odd occasion I've used it in the morning and it's clearly rebooted itself without anything major happening.

Also, when I play movies - they work fine for 5 -10 mins then freeze up. Streamed stuff on u tube etc.. is fine.

Well, those Core 2 Duos/Quads run far cooler than those P4s.

As far as a power supply, I would definitely recommend that Corsair HX620W PSU, bar none the best to keep a CPU and PC altogether as cool as ice.

Anyone getting that CPU down to 30 degrees must be using liquid nitrogen or something. I have a massive Zalman 80cm fan, alu-copper heatsink and mine never drops below 50. With the stock fan temperatures of 70 or more is absolutely normal.

Okay, you may have overdone it. Ideally you should use something like an old credit card or something to scrape off excess paste. You should only apply a very thin layer (thin enough to almost be able to see through).

You can test that with memtest86+. If you have an Ubuntu or Suse install disc lying around it should be on that, otherwise grab it from the Interweb.

Yeah - that could just be Windows Update doing that tho'. It does some times.

I'm still thinking PSU.

I didn't actually fit the new fan - old boy did ( I just spoke with him there on the phone ) and he's built plenty of machines so I guess it'll be ok.

Anywho, thanks for all the help folks. I'll replace the PSU at the weekend and see what happens.

I may be back!

Thanks again - much appreciated!!

Stevie G, may I suggest not to go with a cheap PSU. If you have the budget, invest at least 125$ US or more for a nice 600+ watts PSU with if possible cable management.

You'll have then a worry free PSU for at least 5+ years.

I personally have preferences for Thermal Take Tough Power, or Silverstone, or maybe some good Corsair PSU.

Search for a PSU that is ATX 2.2 generation, not the older 2.0. Also check if it's an 80+ standard. If the PSU has those, then you should be good. But PSU have gone a long way since the old 250/300 watts light weight models.

This thread could also be useful: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=71359

Noted. I may be Scottish but contrary to popular belief, I'm not tighter than a nats chuff!

Here's another thread. MadJack had issues also. haven't heard much since but I guess now he's all good :)
http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=71592

And a nice power calculator: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

I bought this 800W one. Nice and quiet and pretty much future proof (and backward compatible).

http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/powersupplies/x-red-psus

Steve, I've read in a french review that the SPS-XP800 doesn't hold much more than 550 watts. Above that, it is not reliable. Actually, even at 450 watts consumption, the SPS-XP800 isn't doing too well. It's definately not worth more than a high quality 600 watts. I don't even think Xilence respects the ATX v2.2 standard.
http://www.revioo.com/articles/a10181_1.html

This is a good reference to help you buy a good PSU:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

A lot of thermal paste can definitely be a reaosn for high temperatures -- *all* it needs to do is fill the microscopic valleys in the metal on top of the chip & heatsink so you get rid of the air pockets -- direct metal-on-metal contact still conducts a lot better than the thermal paste itself.

It's a very common mistake to overdo it, with high temperatures to show for.

That said, my previous PC had an Athlon 2800+, and it was pretty solid at 68C, so 70 is not necesarily a problem.

My first guess would also be PSU -- over the years I've had two computers (one amiga and one PC) that had semi-random reboots, and in both cases it was a faulty PSU that caused it.

Woah. my 2600+ never went above 40!

Well, then may I suggest this PSU for you, probably far better than most, due to the modular cabling: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

First things first.
Before spending any money lets ask these questions.

1.. First it would be a good idea to list your hardware with the manufactures/product codes ect, (make's life easier).
e.g. OS, Motherboard, Graphics card,PSU+Wattage,memory,hard drives,Case and any other device.
And is the computer a New build or is it old and only just started to show problems.

2.. Does it problem still persist when all external devices have been removed, e.g Printer, External Hard Drive etc.

3.. Is the O/S Windows.
If its windows do you get the BSOD (BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH). Windows is Preset to reboot on errors like this, turn them off by..
Right Click My Computer->Select Properties->Click Advanced Tab->Click the Settings is the Startup and Recovery section->Uncheck the Automatic Restart in the System Failure section.
Any BSOD screen write down what caused it (then seacth the net for it (usually M$ Knowlage base)).
BSODS can point you in the right direction.
If no BSOD then lets check the Bios out.

4.. Is the bios reporting the system temp (not the cpu, system temp usually is at 41C, a hight temp could mean a system cooling problem). I have had a new motherboard report the wrong CPU temp before(in other word faulty Motherboard)

5.. Is there any infomation on the motherboards manufatures web site (A very lonf shot because most there're usless).

6.. Does it need a bios update?

7.. Do you have the spare parts or equipment to test for problems.
If the answer is no the the cheaper solution would be to send it to a PC repare shop (not PC World they know jack.. and I leave you the finish that sentence off) and ask them to let you know what the problem is then decided the best course of action.

If it turns out its a PSU I would recomend a ENERMAX PSU

Keep in mind: wattage alone for a PSU doesn't tell the entire picture. Some 450W PSU's are 'better' than a 650W of another manufacturer.

Age is also important: they slowly degrade over time, so the older it is the more likely that it doesn't live up to its advertised specs anymore.

Oh, and another stupid question: Do you know for sure that the power in your house itself is stable?

Do you ever notice the lights dimming for a fraction of a second, or appliances like a VCR or microwave oven randomly losing their time/date settings?

I don't see how quoting all my hardware and manufacturers product codes is going to help. I've been using the system for over 2 years now and had no issues whatsoever until recently.

I have no external devices attached.
I get no blue screens of death. No idea how to check what sys temp the bios is reporting and no idea if it needs an update.
I have changed nothing in the casing apart from the fan in 2 years.
I don't have any spare parts to test with.
There is also nothing wrong with power in general in my house - come on - I'm not that daft :)

Stevie

Stevie: Power supplies do degrade over time, which can lead to instability if they can't provide enough power for your system. On top of that, capacitors on your motherboard slowly wear out over time as well, which make it drain more power. both of those things combined: less power provided & more power needed, which can lead to reboots.

The reason they're asking for your system specs is that if your hardware needs a lot of power and you have a mediocre powersupply, wear & tear could have exceeded its capabilities.

IIRC most motherboards use up ~20% extra power per year of their age, thanks to the capacitors wearing out.

You might also want to check your motherboard for domed capacitors, since you've had it for a while. It's probably a long shot, but it's free and easy to check, so you may as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

As for hardware, if the computer is not custom built the name and model of the PC would suffice ( companies build ready made PC's often use cheap off the self parts that they buy in bulk, thats why such PC are cheap).

If the old CPU heatsink fan was working then it may have just needed cleaning. Its amazing what crap you can find inside a PC case (the term bug wasn't alwas related to software)

Another thing that can cause a system to get warm are missing expansion slot covers (front and back) and no side on the case.

PSU's and mechanical drives (e.g. DVD/FLOPPY) are the things that break down more than any other component in a PC.

If you do get a new PSU just make sure it will fit in your case as some of the more powerful ones are quite large. The best bet would be that if your not planning on doing any expansion to the system is to get a good reliable PSU with the same output.

And one last thing, check that the connectors are suitable (e.g ATX 20/24 pin,Molex,SATA). I my self would (and did) go for modular cabling system.

Actually, there is a load of crap inside the casing - cluttered with thick dust. Should I just give it a quick brush with a soft brush and hoover it out? It's not likely to do any damage is it?

Thanks for all the advice folks - all taken on board.

Stevie

Using a hoover is a bad idea (unless its one of those that can blow as well as suck), there's a risk that you could loose bits.

Using a brush is all so a bad idea, there's the risk of Electro Static Discharge (which is not good for delicate computer components).

The best way is to use a compressed can of air (any computer shop should sell it) or a hoover that can blow air.

Then take it out side (unless you you want to clean your house later) and give it a good going over.

Hmm, I'm wondering... Were you using the stock heatsink/fan that Intel gave you? That may be a bad idea. You always should use a third-party CPU cooling solution. I believe that Zalman and ZeroTherm seem to be the two best, IIRC. Of course, the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is rather cheap, and seems to get the job done, too. Could go either way.

Stevie, my power supply went on my computer about 6 months ago and I took it to a guy in Prestwick who replaced it for £25 + £5 labour.

I think he might examine - diagnose for nothing or next to nothing.

May help? I could look for the number.
Jim

Close enough Jim!! Details please?

The shop is called NetCompS at 20a The Cross Prestwick. (along an alley right of the PO).

www.NetCompS.co.uk

Phone : 01292 678008

Just noticed he doesnot explicitly say repairs but he does everthing else and he has a testing bench.

See his site for opening times etc. but phone first to check & cost.

Jim

OK, I gave the whole PSU a good clean and hoovered all the dust out of it. The PSU fan was a bit manky. Got rid of the existing thermal paste and put a very thin layer as suggested.

All is working fine now - long may it continue :)) At least I can now watch movies and running 3d apps etc...

Cheers everyone.

Stevie

Ah, if your PSU fan isn't working right then *it* can very well be overheating... That is something you won't see show up in your BIOS temperature readings.

Only problem now is that my sound drivers have somehow disappeared. I'm buggered if I can find the cd or remember exactly what my sound card is though!!

Do you have a plug-in soundcard, or is it onboard?

It it's onboard, then you can easily find out what motherboard you have with CPU-Z (freeware) : http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

You can then go to your motherboard manufacturer's website and download the sound driver.

If it's a plug-in card, it may be identified by name upon bootup when your machine POSTs and enumerates the detected PCI devices.

Thanks. It's a plug-in - will try have a look at the bootup stuff.

Yeah - I was getting overheating about a year ago. Had a look inside the case and discovered the cooling vanes over the CPU were chocka with dust. Removed that, and the overheating prob went away. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

Hmm, I can't seem to get details of the card even on boot up. XP does detect an audio device. Any other ideas? It doesn't show up in the hardware in the control panel etc... before someone suggest it.

I guess I can download the audio drivers for the onboard sound for my motherboard but it's not quite the same!

Cheers
Stevie

What types of fans/coolers do you have for your overall cooling system? Usually stock case fans just don't seem to cut it, either, to keep things regulated, and such. Could this be a problem for you?

Stevie G,

I'd look into doing a system restore to a point you know the drivers were working and then re-install any new proggies installed since that point


Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System Restore.

IPete2.

Ok - will try that. Do you think it's something to do with replacing the battery on the bios? Do I need to tell the system I still have an audio driver somehow?

EDIT : No joy!! WTF!!!

@Ram - the original problem has been dealt with thanks.

Cheers
Stevie

"XP does detect an audio device. Any other ideas? It doesn't show up in the hardware in the control panel"

If XP does detect an audio device it should show something in the System Device Manager.

Usually a yellow exclimation mark on the offending item.

Have a look in add and remove programs, it will tell you if there is some sort of audio driver installed and a pointer to the sort of driver you will be looking for.

If there is then the driver are more than likely still on the system (unless it says it's installed but still asks your sound card disk then you will need the drivers).

WARNING TURN OF THE POWER AND MAKE SURE THAT THE PSU IS DISCHARGED BEFORE REMOVING,INSTERTING OR DOING ANY THING INSIDE THE COMPUTER, AND ENSURE THAT YOU ARE STATIC FREE BY TOUCTHING ANY METAL PART OF THE COMPUTER OR YOU CAN DESTORY YOU COMPUTER.

Now here's the worst when you cleaned the computer you may have damaged the card or knocked it just enough for it to become unseated in the expansion slot. Take it out and re-isert it.

While its out have a look to see what make and model it is, this will give you a better idea for the drivers.

"Do you think it's something to do with replacing the battery on the bios?"

If you have replace the CMOS battery then the BIOS settings will need to be up dated as the will reset to the default(or if the battery is flat, This will give a POST (boot) error every time saying that Checksum is incorrect.. Press F1 for setup (or words to that effect) you get this the once if you clear the CMOS or replace the battery).

Because you are using a expansion card for sound and you say there's a onboard sound chip.

Then you will have to enter the BIOS settings by holding down the setup key when the computer is first powered up, (usually) the delete key (ther are other keys depending on the BIOS MAKER F1,F2,CTRL+SHIFT+F12?.. etc you willl have to find the right one or combination).

WARNING DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO MESS WITH THE CPU CLOCK SPEEDS, MEMORY OR GPU SETTING UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
OR THE COMPUTER WILL NOT BOOT OR CAN BECOME UNSTABLE. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO WRITE DOWN ANY SETTINGS BEFORE YOU CHANGE THEM!

When we have the bios setup screen, there should be a menu item that says something like "Intergrated Peripherals"(some where on the screen it will tell you how to navigate the setup menus). If we don't (there are different types of BIOS Setup Schemes) then enter each menu because you will be looking for something like OnBoard Sound,Onboard Audio or AC97, when found disable it, then press ESCAPE key repeatedly untill you are back at the First BIOS screen. Then select the SAVE AND EXIT menu item, answer yes, then the computer will reboot.

If by chance you do mess up, you can reset the CMOS/BIOS settings by moving a jumper located near the CMOS battery (if you have a motherboard manual it will tell you how to do this) one pin over for a second then returning it back as it was. WARNING DON'T DO THIS WITH THE POWER ON OR THE PSU STILL CHARGED OR LEAVE THE PIN IN THE CLEAR CMOS POSITION OR YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR COMPUTER. The safest way would be just to remove you battery (SEE FIRST WARNIG).

Now XP should only see the sound expansion card not the onboard sound.

If not shutdown, remove the sound card,reboot,then shutdown again, re-install the sound card in a different slot and power up. Windows should find the card if it still can't find the drivers and you found the drivers for your card on the net/cd etc, then remove and old drivers for your sound card in add and remove programs.

If there is still no joy then there is a problem with the card (and/or possibly a problem with the mother board)

I just downloaded sound drivers for the motherboard - works fine now. The audio device XP was detecting was obviously the onboard. I'll look into the soundcard thing in a few days - thanks for the advice.

Stevie

If you don't fancy turning off the Onboard Sound using BIOS just disable it in the Device Manager.