This is horrible!

MS have got a clause in the vista licence agreement that could potentially be used (once everyone but the wize are stuck with vista) to, in theory, suddenly decide that all non-microsoft approved software will mysteriously just start crashing or even dissapear from your disks, including suspect media. This will be legal as the agreement basically says that they are in almost full control of the operating system and not the user.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6319845.stm



I know vista is a bombshel from using it. but i didnt realize it was a potential fascist timebomb waiting to blow.

It states that windows defender will remove apps, not Vista itself.

Just don't install windows defender. Or uninstall it if you have it on your system.

:)

But whats to stop them making defender compulsory in say: non-optional security update patch KB154546245663344551?

A: nothing

Even if you disable it somehow you will be breaking the law because: "you may not work around any technical limitations in the software"

Well, in that case, I will post my Vista OEM DVD back to MS with a lump of dog Sh** thrown in the package.

I'll then move back to XP or wait for some cracking/Hacking group to release a modified, pirate version of Vista without all the crap and use that instead.

Basically if MS are going to play those cards then I'll boycot their Products or use illegal version.

If I get cought I will plead my case, pay any fines and continue using warez versions of MS Vista. :)

The sooner everyone embraces Linux, the happier we'll all be.

Financially I can't switch to Linux for my main OS because 90% of the software I've bought is Windows only.

eg.

Truespace 7.5
Ulitmate Unwrap
B3D SDK
TrueVision 3D
3Impact
3D World Studio

etc. etc.

If I could find a suitable, working, just asd powerfull replacement for all my Software then I'd switch. Alas this is not possible.

MS have total control and they will abuse this control at any cost.

I'll let FlameDuck tell you why MS suck. :)

I recently installed Ubuntu on my machine.

After a hard drive crash last week I reinstalled windows and my sound, graphics, mouse and other generic drives didn't work.

Ubuntu booted up and worked 99%. that 1% being that my laptop has a crappy ACPI implementation and my sound card is left in sleep mode because of it... Lovely! So this weekend i'm going to be hacking ubuntu to get my sound working again, and then hopefully i'll be up and running.

I got xp running to the same level as ubuntu in about 2 hours, because of the various installers not working, updating, and then i got in a "You need to install .net",".net is already installed" loop.

Hmm, tricky, but you can get close with these alternatives:

Windows                Linux
Truespace 7.5      ==> MAYA blender wings ac3d + others
Ulitmate Unwrap    ==> as above (well, may not be as special but you certainly can do the job)
B3D SDK            ==> mini b3d (not sure how it compares)
TrueVision 3D      ==> dunno what this is
3Impact            ==> Theres loads of cross platform 3d engines out there, dunno if theryre as good tho.
3D World Studio    ==> maya blender wings ac3d + others
photoshop          ==> photoshop(wine) gimp + others
MSOffice           ==> Open office, MSOffice(wine) 
MSN                ==> AMSN, skype, gaim(msn,icq,etc) etc. etc. etc.

I Know what you mean though, i am still forced to use it but do it with dual booting. I still boot windows for b3d, giles and one or 2 nicknacks now but thats it. I am spending more time learning Bmax atm. I dont however think ill ever install vista again... ever. I will stick with XP and take the alternitives on linux as it all advances.

Linux programmers are like lawyers. They intentionally make Linux complicated and non user-friendly, because it means job security. It's pretty comical to see them go on and on about how great their special knowledge is, and why everyone should value it. There's this attitude like this:

New user: I want to install drivers for my graphics card.

Linux community: First you need to install these dependencies, then you could write a script that unpacks the files to your root folder. You might want to try installing HenHouse 3.0 to re-direct your session to a non-CX server.

New user: Why should I have to do all that? I just want to install my drivers.

Linux community: If we just made an installer that did everything for you, you wouldn't really learn anything about the operating system. It's better for you to learn how the OS works, then you won't even need drivers, you can write your own! Hell, you won't even need a graphics card, because you can write a software renderer in the superior system kernel of Linux. In fact, you don't even need a computer, because you can write out a program on paper and marvel at its beauty without touching a keyboard.

What it really comes down to is greed. If Linux were easy to use, they would lose their status as special keepers of obscure knowledge required to run servers, and they wouldn't make as much money typing commands into the terminal.

I agree in part, that some hardware can be a fiddle, but once its up and working its solid and runs with no hard lockups (unless you do something really extreme) no spyware or viruses(a few at least that rely on user stupidity) no damn popups for every benign little thing you dont care about and no unexplained slowdown.

In my experience the only problem ive had with it is inexperience, once you know what you are doing things like you describe can be fixed easily.
The only hardware i have had problems with is crap hardware.
Distros like ubuntu in my experience are probably more compatable with the PC hardware thats actually out there than vista is atm.

Greed doesnt come into it, they are bending over backwards to make it work out of the box for everyone as an alternative system. Just read some of the support forums on the ubuntu site to see how helpful people can be. Ive fixed all my HW glitches without ever having a response like that you posted. People have made installers that do everything for you, problem with some hardware though it was only designed with a 'ahh it works with windows so it will do' attitude. This however is changing fast.

As for 'obscure knowlage', Its the same with windows, if a system tech goes outside the zone of everday use, normal users are just as mystified. Ive been using it for two years, one year as a secondary learning system (that was tough) and one year as a primary system and i'm more than happy with it.

If anyones greedy, it certainly lies in the microsoft camp.

I've recently began using Linux and while it has been a difficult transition, I am loving it and plan on making it the core of my next workstation.

You know what it reminds me of? It's a more "enthusiast supported" environment, rather much like the days of the Amiga OS or the Atari ST GEM OS, where a majority of the software comes from the user community. While there are both good and bad points to this, I have to say it is tangibly exciting to be out of the Microsoft Windows environment.

I've been using Ubuntu almost exclusively for a few months now. I get weird stutters at times for reasons I haven't figured out, but that is nothing compared to the instant pain delivered by Windows.

I don't think I'll be going back now that I have my changes to the Gnome panel living.


I decided a while ago that I hate all implementations of desklets in Gnome. Actually, for that matter, I hate practically all desklets implementations. ("Desklets" are little applets displayed at the level of the desktop, providing you with some extra customization and helpful information while staying out of the way). I was also filled with bitterness about Vista's very attractive sidebar which Microsoft toted as the second coming of Christ. It's really just like the Gnome panel but with more complex applets (and, probably, commented source code).

What particularly bothered me was that the Gnome panel already works a lot like that side bar of Vista's (or any other form of desklets), where you place custom applets (and these applets can be as complicated or as simple as you want) on the panel, however you want them. The only thing stopping it from being like desklets or the Vista sidebar is that every panel permanently obscures screen space! Thus, adding an applet is less fun and more a question of commitment: "Do I want to invest all that screen space for this little applet?"

As a tinkerer in Windows, this would mean I either give up in a huff and rant about Microsoft, or I would create an entire other program to do the job, running alongside the task bar. A similar thing to the latter, for some reason, happened in Gnome as well as everywhere else: People have been creating entire extra standalone programs to have applets placed on the desktop instead of the panel, resulting in yet another program to support as well as wasted memory and boot time for the user's PC. This is also resulting in there being two infrastructures for concepts that are very similar.

I quite like it when things are unified under a single system, so I wanted the more complicated applets under the same infrastructure as conventional panel applets. Due to the open nature of all this, I could make that come true really easily with some simple reading and a download of the source code.

As my screenshot shows, I could quite easily make it possible to create completely ridiculous uses of panel applets (a lot of eyes, using the geyes panel applet, and a fish) without having to worry about screen space and without thinking "this extra desklets program is a waste of resources!". I also got to satisfy my need to successfully mess with something :)

The result, I think, is quite smooth and I am now working on a few little cleanups, as well as an applet set to fit this use, to have it hopefully pop into Gnome some day.

The benefits of a more open platform are clear here. I could not make this change with anything but an open sourced operating system; I would be creating yet another program and wasting resources. I don't care about the software on that system being closed or open, but the platform we rely on and trust should not be, in any way, secretive.

I love vista slep mode.. it works greate.

Ubuntu is like Longhorn was some years ago. Some windows apps works. including some of my blitz3d games :)

Linux... Well, I prefer FreeBSD. It's cleaner, faster and more consistent than GNU/Linux, and it even has a much friendlier license. Not to forget Beastie. ;-)

However, I don't think that Linux will be the answer to Microsoft's desktop monopoly. Mobile devices and web based applications have much better chances to crush Microsoft's empire than a competing desktop OS.

And until that happens, I must confess that, if OS X wouldn't exist, I'd rather use Windows than Linux as my "bread and butter" system anytime. Not because of the OS, which sucks big time, but because of all the software that is available for it.

The GIMP is no alternative to PhotoShop CS3, there is nothing like Aperture and you also won't find anything like Propellerhead Reason, Ableton Live or Final Cut Studio for Linux. On Windows, I could substitute Aperture and Final Cut Studio with some Adobe applications, and there also would be alternatives available. On Linux, I'd have to start writing most of the crap myself.

And even if there were all the applications I could dream of available for Linux: Who the heck would pay me for code that I write on that platform? Linux comes with an "everything for free and everything must be open source" mindset, and Linux users just would not put 20 bucks for a shareware program on the table or 500 bucks for a server software or 50 bucks for a game. And, please, don't give me that ridiculous "you can charge for support" argument that you keep hearing from the Linux community. Who in that target group above would pay for technical support? Right, nobody. You post in a forum and wait for somebody to give you the answer for free.

I very much doubt that embracing GNU/Linux would make all independent software developers happier.

photoshop runs on linux under emulation and there is lots of commercial software out there for it as well. Im a linux user and i have bought commercial software. Pople like Corel are doing cross platform versions of its software too.

It will if its a portable program from its design stage as you are covering an additional 5-10% of the market that hardly anyone else covers. Linux users arent stupid, if they want/need an app, they pay for it like everyone else. Theres just as many people using windows that believe everything should be free too, theres as much open source & free software out there for windows (where the market is saturated), not to mention the pirates who pay for nothing.

like leadwerks above i dont get the linux idea that everything should be scripted it a pain in the ass, even simple stuff like installing my modem becomes a knightmare, ive got the driver for it ive copied the driver to linux and what now? i have to write a script to tell linux to use it? havent a clue how to do that and ive found scripts on the net for other modems but not mine. i really want to like it but its not user friendly enough.

Mac OSX rulez..M$ suck, Linux has a future

theres not really a great games market on the mac so if you make a great game, theres not really much else for people to buy so you may sell quite a few copys.

Lack of software on Linux, doesn't make this license any better. :)

Not that they are likely ever to use it for anything other than malware removal. Of course, MS's wet dream, is to have a console like PC, where they have full control over all software released for it and what you can and cannot do with it (assuming you're not a hacker).

I have been using Linux for quite a time now, and it has been my only OS for around 2 years, although since XP came out I booted into win98 less and less. At first it was difficult and missed many Windows aplications and games, but right now there is not much I miss. Maybe those that have lost more are those Windows users around me, as I'm no longer a great help with their Windows problems (As I no longer use it, I don't realy know too much about it). Some have asked me to install Linux for them, and apart from "How do I do this?" or "What can I use to do that?" there have been no real problems. Of course they bring me their PC. I ask them what they need on it. Install the OS, aplications, everything, make sure it works, show them a few basics on how to use it. If they will be needing some windows stuff I have a "dual boot" (gamers mainly) and if not I just install Linux.

Now this is curious, while some have gone back to Windows many have asked me to take away Windows completely. Linux is far easier to install than Windows and solving problems is easier too, as everything is a script, mostly you can sort out problems. This at first for the newcomer is confusing, but once you have some experience it's just a matter of typing in the right words in Google and searching for an answer that suits you. I don't charge for my help(my income comes from other sources) but I know that most would be quite happy to pay (support).

As for indy games, well I don't know much about this. Would Linux users pay for a game? My guess is that around the same proportion as Windows users (of course there are many less Linux users, and many don't use games that much). Could a GPL games developer make a living? Well, maybe. There is no reason why you can't charge a fee for your game. OF course if you charge for "service" it might be a better idea. You could provide a nice website with a forum, fast downloads, for a reasonable fee, why not?

About hardware: It's always best to check before you buy. Want a printer, modem, laptop ...etc. Check first if it works easily in Linux. ie. I bought a laptop recently, saw it in the shop, liked it, came back home, searched the internet, found out that it worked with my favourite distro, went back to the shop, bought it, et "voila".

And the great thing about Linux is choice, don't like it? Use Windows :P By the way Bmax works very well in Linux.

Madmax: ok so if i went to Linux and got blitzmax, im on blitz3d at the moment, i guess theres blender for 3d and Does the ogre wrapper work with linux? gimp is quite cool, I use photoshop but dont like its UI very much, what other options do i have other than blender?

MadMax, it all depends on one's individual needs whether Linux will work for one or not. It does not work for me.

For example, Apple's Aperture is the ultimate killer application for -- me --, because I shoot a lot of RAW pictures, and there is no better software for digital photographers out there than Aperture. In -- my -- opinion, Adobe Lightroom comes nowhere near Aperture, and Lightroom is the only competetion in that field. I only use Photoshop in rare cases when I'm done "developing" my RAWs, and "developing" RAWs is what Aperture and Lightroom have been made for. There just is no software available for Linux for that specific field of work, and this is just ONE example that is big for me.

Then, when I talk about indies, I do not only mean game developers. The Mac platform offers a great market for shareware developers. Look at Delicious Library, for example. Or Mellel. Or Journler. Mariner Write. Mariner Calc. OmniGraffle Pro. All Shareware and outstanding pieces of software.

You cannot make a living with "selling" GPL software. It's a ludricous idea, because the GPL explicitly allows the user to give away the software for free. So you might sell ONE copy of it, and after that, somebody else will put it on his website. "Selling" GPL software simply does not work. End of story.

Charging for service? Well, what kind of service do you want to sell? Technical support? Who the heck would pay for technical support for games or shareware? You can charge a corporation for technical support for your own Linux distribution or your SQL server or your mail server or whatever. But now we are talking about being a corporation yourself, not about being an indie developer.

And there is another side of that service route that most people like to ignore: If this is your source of income, then it is in your natural interest to produce software that is not well documented and you are also more or less forced to produce software that does have technical problems -- after all, those technical problems generate your income.

These are non technical problems that I, and probably many others, too, have with Linux. I just don't see a way how -- I -- could make a living with Linux unless I'd play the system/network administrator/maintenance programmer for a company that has an investment in Linux. But since I am not looking for an employment after leaving my current day time job, this is a "no go" for me. MySQL AB have found a viable business model for the Linux platform, but it would not work for the things that I would want to do.

So, in summary: When you are a user whose needs can be satisfied by the Linux platform, there is no reason why you should not go for it. When you want to do business on that platform, things look very differently and you might find out that you just cannot do it. Like I've said: Non technical reasons, but serious ones.

Just because you release a title for linux, it doesnt mean its a GPL licence, or open source, its whatever software licence you want to give it. "Selling GPL" is kind of a contradiction.

If blender isnt your thing then theres Maya which is arguably as industry standard now as max is. Theres lots if free ones and AC3D which is quite good too. Photoshop can run on a Nix system under the wine system.

A lot of "Windows only" software will work just fine under Wine or Cedega, and in many cases with a performance boost.

You realize Windows works the exact same way, don't you (Windows Scripting Host anyone)? The difference is that if your software doesn't work with Windows (like say, my flatbed scanner, or real-time non-linear video editing hardware) you're just flat out of luck. There is NO WAY to get it working at all. It's just go out and buy new stuff, which in my case would have been several thousand dollars of equipment.

It's not entirely unlike the BlitzMAX situation. You don't have to depend on Microsoft/BRL to deliver a 3D Engine or "render to texture" module. Chances are someone else has already been in your position, and will have figured out a way to work around it.

Well you're entitled to your opinion.

I find it great how people who have never even tried Linux, still manage to have expert opinions on its shortcomings.

TBH when Windows XP is retired im going 100% to linux, having it on in a virtual box is good I see myself in the virtual box more and more. The only thing I use Windows for these days is the odd game of Oblivion :)

Amen (or tried it for the proverbial 5 minutes, expecting it to work in the same way as windows)

Back on topic though, what do you think? do you think MS have either been 'clever' attempting to slowly strangle out the competition through sheer usage volume, mountains of cash and potential 'weapons' like this agreement, or do you think they are really starting to shoot off toes? I personally believe its already lost a few of em.

I've tried it, its on a partition, spent ages getting BlitzMax to work on it... My expert opinion... Cack!!! :D

Dabz

It's only a ludicrous idea because you have either completely misunderstood the GPL or are completely mispresenting it. If I sell a GPL game, and someone puts the entire source code on his website, what harm does that do to me? Without all the graphics, sound effects, music, ini files, xml files, data files, and whatever else my game may contain, it probably won't even compile, and it certainly won't do anything more than crash unspectacularly when it fails to find any of the 903 files it expects to find.

Is it true that Linux users mount their drives? :P

Here's a one:-


Linux can arguably do everything (except games, movies, and anything "fun"),


:D

Dabz

Yes, and its actually a much better system. And yes, you still get all the little icons in the 'my computer' thingy. Anyway, windows drives are mounted too, just in a different way.

Im dissapointed DABZ :O , i thought you said you had used it (After all, you did say you were an 'expert' above ;)
Please tell me what is in that little box thats running in this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=684OLRsTrrs
Oh, wait its a movie and it *all* looks pretty fun to me. As for games, come on, its virgin territory that needs conquering!

Last time i re-installed everything the BMAX install took all of 5 minutes because now I know what i am doing.
The first time i tried it took longer as i did not know what the hell i was doing. I had problems with a GLX library and a sound library that wasnt installed.
Now I know more I see it is similar in a way to not having directX installed for windows. Same same but different.

Aha... but you see, that is the crux of the issue.

Linux users tell Windows users that Linux is better, you should switch. But the key here is, make it easy for the Windows users to switch and they will. If you build it, they will come.

Expecting your average Windows user to just adopt Linux and spend weeks learning Linux is out of the question. Windows users are use to EVERY program having a interface window, they are used to be able to change settings by click option boxes. Lost of Linux software expects you to hunt down text files and edit them. Sure, this is better for an experienced user, and nicer for the programmer of the app to not have to add that functionality, but by doing this, you are making it harder for the average Windows user to switch.

I never said it was better, just different. While linux is 'technically superior' windows IS more user friendly at the moment. However saying that, 99% of the stuff that ships with ubuntu that normal people use, Norman Normaluser wouldnt even need to know the terminal or textfiles exist.

So is Anne Widdecombe but count me out.

TBH atm I find Linux easy to use (Ubuntu 6.06lts) it also makes much more strict coding when using Blitzmax as filenames are case sensitive :D. The whole system is much neater and I managed to locate a problem under linux that didnt appear under Win32, it is there in Win32 but windows halts it as it controls the whole system where Linux just uses what it needs.

Case sensitive file names?!?! :/

Unfortunately yes, but its kind of like 'strict' in programming, its a pain in the ass, but it avoids cockups and is more efficient, especially when talking to unix based systems (like most of the web) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filename_mangling
When talking to a windows sytem (SMB) there are settings to allow for name mangling prevention. To be honest, mabe thats why the windows file system takes so long to do anything as its constantly un-mangling itself and resolving filename possibilities.

LOL! Touche :P

D4NM4N, the discussion was specifically about GPLed software. But it does not make a real difference since the Linux community basically only accepts Open Source software, preferably under the GPL or at least LGPL.

Gabriel, I have very thoroughly read the GPL and pondered A LOT about how I could make a viable business model with it.

It's good for you that you --might-- have found a way to GPL a game, give away its source code and still can charge money for it because you do not GPL the art in it. However, this will only work when you load all content dynamically at runtime. And if the GPL can be bend the way that you describe is for judges and lawyers to discuss. You are basically giving the people something useless, and that does not reflect the intention of the GPL. The purposes of the GPL is to give the users freedom, not crippled software.

Anyway, for the things that I want to do, which among other stuff contains servers and client software, this will not work, and as much as a part of me likes the Open Source idea, I had to rule it out for my projects.

FlameDuck: I have been "trying" Linux since version 0.9x and had already set up running dial-up Internet gateways with it in the 90s, so I think I can judge its shortcomings and strengths from experience, not just from hearsay. I am just not a religious follower and believer. I also have been using Microsoft stuff since DOS 1 and Macs since OS 6. I have also used IBM MVS and OS/2 2.x - 4.0 in my job life, as well as Novell's NetWare and even FreeBSD for OpenVPN Gateways. I have learned to write code in more than one programming language and this pretty much gives me a solid enough knowledge foundation to compare and evaluate things.

Anyway, I don't want to spend the rest of the weekend in yet another Linux vs the rest of the world discussion. As much as I still want to believe it, but there is no silver bullet out there. And what a boring place this would be if there was only one system with one language left. I bet people would start to write something new just to be different from the mainstream... ;-)

lol, yeah, I'll own up, I'm not a Linux expert... But I am a desktop user, and as a desktop user, I still think its cack! :)

I see Linux as a cliche OS... If it ever grows as a valid mainstream OS, it'll end up getting the same amount of scrutiny and shite as Windows does.

Anyway, if your happy with Linux, then good for you, I'm happy with Windows, so thats good for me... As long as we're happy, thats what counts! ;)

Dabz

I considered Linux once, so read a book on it first. That was enough to put me off. Some of it's features sounded great, it just all came across as being too complicated to bother with. :/

Not "don't" so much as "can't". If you've read the GPL as thoroughly as you say, you know it's a code license and trying to GPL art would be like trying to pasteurise diamonds. Not exactly forbidden but it doesn't make sense to try.


No it won't. As already mentioned, GPL is a license about source code, not about art, and as such the content of your game is not what the license wants to ensure is free.


Again, not at all. Anyone who buys the game has exactly what they paid for. Nothing is crippled or useless about the game people have paid for. They can do exactly what the license says they can do. They have the full source to take and do with as they please. They can change the entire game and make it work differently if they want. They can even distribute their changes. They just can't distribute the content of the game with that. People who want the content have to buy it.

The GPL says you have to give people freedom, not that you have to give people stuff for free. There's a world of difference.

It wasnt, At the start it was about vista's licence clause, because i started it.

I guess we all got sidetracked. Its been a good debate anyway..

Im off to the pub :)

Enjoy your pint, I'm going to sit and watch the X-Factor Auditions... With a can!!! YAY

Dabz

Se? This is what I'm talking about. If you go to a website that publishes sale statistics (like [a D4NM4N, the discussion was specifically about GPLed software. But it does not make a real difference since the Linux community basically only accepts Open Source software, preferably under the GPL or at least LGPL.]this[/a] one) you'll notice that Linux has a significantly higher conversion rate than Windows (although dwarfed by MacOS). My question would then be, how is that at all possible, if your claims are even marginally true? The facts, as they where seem to be that Linux users are more likely to purchase software that they download. And no, Tribal Trouble is not a special case. Windows consistently has the most freeloaders of all the platforms.

I'm sorry, no. Linux has changed considerably in the 4 years since I used it last, so your decade old "experience" counts for nothing at all.

Oh you're so clever. That's exactly why I like Linux. It's part of the 10 commandments. Thou shall have no other OS than me. Right? You must have missed the bit in my sig that for the last 4 years has reflected that I'm using Windows XP. So you hit the nail right on the head. The reason the majority of my systems are running Windows, is because I'm a Linux fanatic.

That's fresh. Someone in a GPL discussion who's actually read and understood the text. Kudos! In fact the only reason you cannot make money of a mod for a game like Half-life, Civ4 or Battlefield 1942 is because it's not GPL'ed. I'll wager this is different in 5 years.

Well say what evil you want about Microsoft. Unlike Apple's iTunes, at least the Vista license does not restrict you from using Vista to produce WMD's or plan acts of international terrorism. Go Microsoft!

@Winni >> Nice to hear you are into photography. Me too. Probably Linux tools wont be as good as those you mention(yet), but you can process RAW.

-------------------------------------------------

It is not necesary to GPL your code, you can use any licence you like. As for people paying for games, well it seems that at least some Linux users are willing to pay for the game and for Cedega to be able to run games.

I can't see why people won't pay if they like your games. After all if they don't, then maybe you won't make anymore. Of course some people might choose not to pay, but this happens in Windows as well.

Anyway I have to go "visitors" bye

Tried any Windows books? :P


It is worth noting that many Linux libraries are on the Lesser GPL license, which allows developers to link to them without forcing them to use the GPL. That license is designed for software whose end user is another software developer.
The ones that are on Big GPL tend to be either very poorly licensed or commercial. Developers like Trolltech do a multiple license model, where developers can use their library for free if they use the terms of the GPL (providing their source code). Otherwise, they must pay.

I find Gnome a great environment to be supporting commercial development. KDE seems completely turned off from the idea (what with its native user interface library being developed by Trolltech with that crazy licensing model), but Gnome is very open to being built upon by closed software.
Heck, if you are using a Debian-based distro like Ubuntu you can even transparently plug your software in to the centralized updater (with some work). Maybe if enough developers are interested in the idea Canonical will try to make it easier. (They, too, are fine with proprietary software like Opera).

As for embracing Linux not making indie developers happier, I disagree. Look at the situation for well built games running natively in Linux. I can count the number of titles that are "good" with my fingers. If you look at the Wine Application Database, you can see that there are piles of Linux users who will play proprietary, money-costing games for Windows, and I am sure they would love to see games of similar quality native on Linux. (Linux users can also be assumed to like ventures that are not connected to big / evil corporations).

There is a much smaller market, but if it is easy enough to get a high quality title running on the system, I think it can be very worthwhile to work around some of the competition.

I currently run Windows and Linux side-by-side (I spend more time under Linux since that's where most of my software I use is, now). Frankly, Wine runs all the software I need just fine, and since I don't play many games on the PC anymore I haven't really got much reason to boot into Windows often.

Currently, the only reason I'm under Windows is to fix some bugs in some software (I don't like fixing Direct3D-based code).

WINNIE: - I knew I had seen this somewhere, so with a bit of digging I found it. Have you checked out LightZone ( http://www-old.lightcrafts.com/linux/ ). The full version for OS X and Win is around $250, but the linux one is free. :) Don't know how it compares to Aperture (haven't tested either), as I don't have a camera that can shoot RAW, so just use iPhoto and GIMP for the few photos I do take.

Windows Defender unfortunately flags a bunch of programs on my work PC as 'hacker tools', although they are normal day-to-day 3rd party system administration tools. One example is VNC (a remote desktop program).
Unfortunately the "allow this application and don't bug me again" option in Defender seems utterly broken, as checking it will result in the entire system freezing for half an hour, after which it *still* doesn't allow it.

That makes MS defender pretty much useless to me...

ragtag, thanks for the link, hadn't heard of this one before. It seems that their site is having problems at the moment, though - almost everything shows "File not found" pages. Guess I'll try it again later.

iPhoto also can deal with RAWs since Apple moved the RAW support to the core OS, and Aperture on the other hand plays quite nicely with iPhoto and the other iLife apps. iDVD can access the Aperture file vault, for example.

In the beginning, I also did not use RAW - until I quite painfully learned that the JPEG format ruins almost every photo. Compare JPEG shots of clouds, water and snow to RAW or even TIFF shots and you'll see it immediately. Or print posters.

The other beauty of RAW is that it really is a digital negative, the unprocessed image captured by the chip (whereas a JPEG already is a 'developed', read: modified image). And in Aperture, I can still easily adjust the exposure, for example, or white-balance or (color) monochrome my shots, and everything works non-destructive. I really only use Photoshop when I need "heavy artillery" to stitch panoramas or want to do other more advanced things that go beyond Aperture's scope.

I also like Aperture's library and file-vault functions, and it also has a quite useful tool for building photo books. I only have not used its light table much (yet). But the very best thing for me is its dual monitor support. I use my second display as mirror and its an amazing help to see my pix full screen without anything disturbing around them. (Adobe's Lightroom does not have that feature, by the way.) Or I can select multiple photos and Aperture aligns them nicely on the mirror screen, so that I can compare them directly. For me, this really is the killer feature.

You can probably already tell that Aperture is the killer application for me that hooks me to the Mac. It has its bag full of issues, but I would not want to photograph without it anymore. And I just -love- to photograph. ;-)


FlameDuck, to make this clear: I have --continuously-- been using Linux distributions over the years and I am quite aware of the development. In contrast, I have only been using FreeBSD since version 5.0. But you know what? I prefer Beastie over Linux anytime, anyplace. It's faster - even when it is running Linux binaries -, cleaner and more consistent than GNU/Linux. It also has a community that, unlike others, is still focused on technology and can deal with criticism and does not tend to become personal or cynical when they run out of arguments. And that closes the thread for me.

Ah, if only BeOS had toppled Windows from its throne...

Windows going to die..of course, it will be horrible agony, but it will die..die die dieee

Let's face it not everyone is going to be able to use a Unix based system. However you might feel, people like to pay or warez a $600 system. OK you and me would be mifted at paying that amount for something that doesn't work. But get real!! people don't pay for Windows. They get it with their new PC or just warez it. How many softare shops sell Windows? How many have actualy bought it? who cares?

I Dunno where you live, but for the rest of the normal world, you pay for an OEM windows in the price this is why dell laptops supplied with linux are cheaper. I have never been in a software shop that doesnt sell windows (unless its games only), almost everyone(in the west at least) who has it has bought it somehow, weather supplied OEM or off the shelf. Unless of course they nicked it from their company or something.

I don't know, obviously companies will mostly pay for their software, and when people buy a PC they pay for an OEM.

But at the same time I believe that most home users except for a few games don't buy software. Ah maybe they buy an antivirus.

Lots of people have digital cameras, mostly around the €200 mark, and they use the latest version of Photoshop (which they barely know how to use, if at all) which costs almost $1000. Then they look for the cheapest place to print their photos.

Loads of home computers have all sorts of expensive software that hardly gets used. Hmm I must say I find this odd.

I wonder what would happen if software was imposible to warez.

Winnie: Hmmm...maybe they discontinued the linux versoin. Their main site is here http://www.lightcrafts.com/ (note that there never was a mention of the Linux version on the main site, they kept it kind of hidden).

xlsior: VNC classified as a hacker tool by Windows Defender? Sigh...one more reason not to go to Vista. I use VNC all the time at work.

MadMax: What would happen if software was impossible to warez is that the small and alternative software developers (shareware), as well as open-source would get a huge boost. A lot of people pirate Photoshop, as they would never spend that much money on a tool they just use to fix their family photos now and then. If warez did not exist, they still wouldn't buy Photoshop. They would download GIMP or Krita, or buy PaintShopPro, OpenCanvas, Pixel or any of the alternatives that cost way less than Photoshop. It would give shareware and open-source a boost, increasing the quality of those products. It would be great!!!

If you've worked frontline support for any amount of time at all, you'll realize that not everyone is going to be able to use a Windows based system either.

It must be the people you know. Everyone I know with a digital camera uses whatever shovelware came with it, if they didn't already have Photoshop installed.

True what flame said, but if you mean windows users then its not true either. If you get a suitable well configured distro & gui most users wouldnt spot much difference in usability from windows, just prehaps things in different places, so may take time to adjust, thats all. My girlfriend uses gnome with no problems and with very little help and she is not exactly a computer wiz.

People seem to think linux and unix is just a command line and a billion cfg files. While technically true, the various gui 'environments' like Gnome have grown around it considerably in the last 3-4 years, almost to the point you rarely (if ever) need to use the cmd line. Unless like me you prefer it for some stuff.