[Indies] Why do you do it?

Hello.

Just received a fairly major kick-in-the-teeth with my game Buzzword. The company that was going to get it out there for me has done a u-turn. So I guess I'm on my own. Oh well. :)

For the last few years I've always said that I'm in it for the money. Now, I'm even more determined than ever to write another game. But if I'm only doing it for the money (which Buzzword hasn't given me a huge amount of up to now), why would I even consider doing it again?

Well... maybe there's subconsciously a little more to it than money? I don't know. I'm starting to think I'll be writing games til I drop and sticking two fingers up at all the nay-sayers. Its what I do.

Anyhoo. I feel its only appropriate to add a shameless plug, here. In utter defiance at the way increasingly large companies dominate the indie market, I've decided to give a stupidly high discount of 55% on Buzzword for this week, and this week only. That's $8.97/£4.58, to you.

Go to my website for more info and to get a discount code.

Well I'm totally not in it for the money... If I was I would have finished the 100s games I've started and got to the 'nearly complete' stage.

I do it because I enjoy solving a problem and creating something from nothing. I really think I would work better in a team, even if it's just one other person, just to give that push and bit of moral support to get a game complete.

Off the top of my head:
Sphere Racer 2 - Decided to see how long it would take me to rewrite sphere racer with 'what I know now' pretty much got it done in an afternoon and it ran about 1000x better!

I've got my helicopter game that is virtually there, just needs a bit of polish. And for the prisoners to get off the helicopter once you land at a specific point.

Zombie game where I've got to sort out the building shadows and add objects (like street lamps etc)

Picooz simulation... which... um... really is done... Just need a front end and a few more scenes to fly around.

My problem is I get bored of it, and don't want the bother!

Of course there is the Alien Breed remake.

Fish racer... Yep... I did a game where you're a fish and racing other fish! That was off the back of my Virtual Aquarium... That had kinda interesting dynamics!

Bacon and Eggs, Another racer, this time you're a chicken saddled on the back of a roller skating pig... Just thought the imagary was funny!

My Asteroids game, Lander... etc etc etc... The list goes on and on!

See... I need motivation! Money clearly isn't the motivator! Which to be honest it should be because I did alright out of the other stuff I have sold!

I'm definitely not in it for the money, I just create games that I want to play but nobody has made or can make due to legal reasons.

Gfk,

That sucks! I can see why you are so disappointed - I would be gutted too, especially when you have spent a lot of time and poured love into a project only to have someone not appreciate it in the end and after all that effort let you down and renage on their end of the bargain.

Why don't you get in touch with either Grey Alien or Indiepath and see if they will help out? As fellow coders and forum members I would hope they'd have at least a little support to offer - if only making the game available on their websites for you as an associate.

Good luck with the game.

I have to say that it is a really hard life out here in developer land, SmartScreen Digital is just over 6 years old, and it has been what seems an unending struggle to stay the course, but so far I have just about managed to keep going. So I know where you are coming from.

Best regards,

IPete2.

heh, thats the way if often goes with contract jobs, publishers and investors. We have a pretty major project on hold right now which was going to make up the bulk of this years earnings. But were still determined to press on and make a success of things in time.

Were still working hard on flow, FlowED and getting to grips with shaders for a possible new game in the Aerial Antics franchise.

I also enjoy solving a problem and creating something from nothing. The thing about software writing is you've usually got a myriad of problems to solve, the sense of achievement from producing something that seemed insurmountable is gratifying.

Sure, making money would be nice, but (so far anyway), it hasn't happened.

keep on coding.... {;-)

bummer but don't give in! Contact some more publishers. I'll sell it on my site if you like, but you'll have to set it up on Plimus or BMT Micro with a commission. Keep on marketing it. Or I guess if you write another game that compliments it in some way you can release that and get some cross selling going on. I get people who buy one of my games buy one of the others quite often.

As a hobbyist I used to write whatever I felt like and it was great fun, very creative, lots of problem solving etc, but nothing was ever finished. Now it's my job so I *have* to make money or live in a cardboard box (with no PC). But I still enjoy it so that's OK. Supposed to be coding now actually to catch up for a day of doing housework.

some people paint, some make models, some write stories, some like photography, some enjoy a problem like a crossword.
..some make games which kind of incorporates all of the above into one hobby.

Dont know why i like doing it, i make money but its only about 25% of the reason why i do it.

Sorry to hear about the game though, must be dissapointing :(

@GfK
Really sorry to hear about your setback with Buzzwords :(
Keep on hacking away at it, it's a good game and hopefully it will make 'something' for you.

I think a lot of people write games as their way of working out their creative side... Personally, I can't draw for toffee and have the musical skills of a small slug, but via programming I can make things which I think are pleasing.. Even though someone with real artistic skills can wipe the floor with me.

The games I've written where 50% for the cash, and 50% for the challenge.. But the feeling you get from actually finishing one does give a bit of a buzz..

I want to get back to doing some games purely for the fact that it's fun, and a damn site better than watching TV.

You got that straight. And better than going to the pub or doing generally FA with your life.

I hope my game will make some money, given the hours involved.

Other motivations are the pride in contributing to a new medium, satisfaction in scratching a creative itch (from my Vic20 days) and relief at having 'transmuted' all that work into something others can enjoy (rather than just resting on my harddrive reproachfully)

I do it for many reasons. First and foremost is seeing the joy that someone experiences when you actually make something fun. Making games comes down to that simple emotion and I think the world can use more of it, it's just a plain optimistic pursuit. After that I like the technical/intellectual challenge of it. It's tough to push yourself to learn all that's involved with game development and every now and then as I explain aspects of development to other people I catch a glimpse of how far I've come.

Of course, those are reasons for developing games period. Why do it independently? I think that it's pretty obvious for most of us here. What's better than to be yourself? Well, quite frankly to be yourself and have the rest of the world love what you do. If you make a game independently and it becomes a smash and you control the IP (Worms anyone) then it will keep you going for life. Sure you're odds may not be great, but there is some skill involved. If you stick with it and finally hit the mark you're set in all the best ways possible.

What puzzles me [disclaimer: never really finished anything useful] is why people who want to make money, but are also interested in creating original games, don't simply bite the bullet and sate the market's demands. For example, most people seem to think that 'match-3s' are easy to produce, and evil incarnate (and I don't dispute this), but won't write them, despite this apparently being what 'the market' wants.

If the market wants it, and it's easy, why not do some hack-work and write a match-3? If that's what sells, and it makes you decent money (and nothing stops you putting your own twist on it for your own interest), why not do it? The profits gained, assuming you can meet the quality standards required, would allow you to write the games you want to write, which may of course sell much less.

Artists throughout the centuries have had to compromise to some extent (not that I believe the 'games are art' argument)... even my beloved HP Lovecraft agreed to ghost-write for the great Houdini, and was overjoyed at the financial gain involved, despite his distaste for the pulp fiction 'standards' he had to accommodate to make a living.

Argument reduced to nothing: why not do some hack-work to make money in order to fund your own interests? (See initial disclaimer... it's just an argument that seems reasonable to me.)

A reasonable argument indeed. However, if you've just done quite nicely making a Match 3 in three months, are you really going to want to invest some or all of the profits into making a game that might not ever be finished, might not turn out very good or might just not sell because the market doesn't want it? Or are you always going to be tempted to write "just one more" Match 3?

Speaking from personal experience, it needs a great deal of willpower to stop writing for a market ( any market ) when you know it's working and fairly safe and you could do it again, and turn to your "pet" project which could earn you nothing at all. I guess less so if it's only in your spare time, but still..

It's the same for me as with Rob. I love to solve problems. The issue is that I know what's involved in completing a full game and I'm just not up to it...so... I just jump around aimlessly doing this and that. But that's ok because I make my bread and butter elsewhere. It's really just a hobby and If I never finish anything that's fine.

Dream the impossible, and make it yesterdays news.

That's why I program. I seem to mostly do two kinds of program: simple arcade games (because they're fun) and stuff nobody has done before (because I can). The others i've attempted, the staple and mainstream type games, I never finish. I think it's because something either needs to be doable in a few days, or it needs to be something so exciting and revolutionary that it's worth finishing.

It's the worth finishing bit that interests me in regards to this thread. My current project is in the revolutionary category. It's ahead of its time within its very limited genre, a racing simulator multiplayer server thingamy ... extremely niche ... but revolutionary, utterly totally mind blowingly advanced and extremely difficult to make and its taking me months not days to do...

I think if it wasnt so noteworthy I would have aborted it. There's no way the rewards (a palty 10-15 thousand non-paying players) make it worthwhile. I'm still making it because it's a challenge, because it's world beating, and because on launch it's going to have a huge impact on my other hobby (sim racing).

So, is it the ego that interests me, or the challenge? I'm not sure, the number of users makes me think its not ego - but then these are peers rather than some random leacher from my old freeware site where downloads in the tens of thousands would have left me feeling gutted.

I hope it's the challenge, i'd like to think it is. I'm inspired to keep going because it's never been done before. My last project [at work] was in this category too, and now sells for an astronomical sum to line my bosses pockets because it's still the only thing in its class.

Then again, I did that because it was my job to identify niche's and fill them. That's work, that's not why I love programming.

Maybe, at the end of the day, maybe the only reason I program is so that I get a little Becky-worship going on. Because if my releases met as much ridicule as they have acclaim - I would have stopped releasing a long time ago and played with go karts instead.

@GfK
sorry to hear about the 'U' turn with Buzzwords !

I'll say, keep on and don't look back. Money can be your primary target, but don't forget the fun factor.

Have fun by developing your original ideas, which may be turn in something commercial, but if not, at least you've had fun with it :)

Remember, fun is your best motivation.

All the best,
Sergio.

A test of character to be sure. I'm sure you'll overcome this hurdle and be twice the man for it. There is bound to be a publisher out there just gushung for your game - go find them.

sad to hear that Gfk

As for a publisher, you might want to contact GarageGames ... they seem to try to get as much buzz at the moment as they can get with weekly / bi weekly addition of one to three new games on the page to buy.

After doing over 90 games on client work basis (lot's of sw3d and flash games amongst) i think that it's also fun doing more serious and better payed stuff for work which brings in the money in a shorter time frame and fiddle around on your own stuff in your freetime. I also have fun doing 3d simulations for instance.

It really takes something to start working on your game on a professional basis and investing lot's of time and money into it if you're not only responsible for yourself.

If you're interested in match three type games this is not such a big problem. If you're interested in bigger games or genres like adventures which take much more time to realise and heavily involve art then it is.

A few succeed and most fail in this process.

@BlitzSupport
Hey, without you there would be no kaboom! ;O)

GFK,

I've gone rogue, I am not any longer making a game for money or for the casual market, nor will I be at the mercy of anyone.

I'm making a game purely that I will personally love :) I think it will sell as well. Don't have a clue how many....

Dont give up on what you do dude

gfk: don't misunderstand me, but I think the buzzworld game is only focused to native english people, or to foreign people with a very high english level, that can be one of the causes of selling less. Other games, not directly based on language sell more becouse they get to a biger audience.
I really hope you find the way to sell all the licenses you need, and you know how this industry is, sometimes a game sells a lot, and sometimes a better one just doesn't.

That's basically what I did (am doing) and it's working out fine. Anyone who wants to run a successful business has to do something they don't like at times - you just need to endure and keep the end goal in sight (like exercising).

I tried to 'bite the bullet' as you put it, a few weeks ago and wrote a basic match three engine within the space of a couple of days. Its not perfect and needs work, but the whole experiment bored me to tears. I found it to be the epitome of tedium. I just can't muster up any enthusiasm for that kind of thing. I've tried.

Yeah, I knew when I started that it would only appeal to a UK/US market. I also knew that no-brainer match three and "where's waldo" games are more popular than games that require an iota of intelligence.

I'm not massively bothered if it doesn't sell a lot, provided I make back my development expenses, and I've almost done that. It can stay on my site forever notching up a couple of sales here and there, and that's OK. Long term - like, two or three years down the line I might use it as a vehicle to promote other games.

The main thing thats annoyed me here, is that companies are happy to sign contracts willy nilly, but they still don't seem to have any legal obligation to fulfil their side of the bargain.

If anyone's wondering - I'm talking about Oberon Media. I don't see any reason to hide their identity really. The bottom line is, their contract, to me, wasn't worth the toilet paper I wiped my ass on this morning. I'd get a lawyer to look their contract over, but what's the point if I'd just be throwing good money after bad?

Sorry to hear this GfK. As others have said, continue doing it.

We've had a couple of *big* projects over the last 2/3 years, one is on hold at the moment as Evak stated, the other just failed to produce anything at the end of a *ton* of hard work. (it was a biggy on show here ;-) )

Ah well. It's frustrating, yes, but I'm not a quitter and have stuck with what we're doing. Flow/FlowED are coming up, the Aerial Antics stuff, etc. Should be fun too.

At the end of the day though if I didnt enjoy ANY of it, i'd be out the door. Fact is, I enjoy programming so it helps me to push through difficult times.


My philosphy for making games has always been:

"If its a game YOU enjoy, others will enjoy it too." it works when it comes to original games, the problem is getting the publishers to snap it up.

Option? Do it yourself! :D

If you're doing it for the money, you're in the wrong business.

You can walk in off the street to practically any IT company and get a starting salary of £3K GBP a month without any documented qualifications.

In which country? Because you sure as hell can't do that in the UK!

Yeah that's always a nice (and important) milestone to reach!

It's definitely a long haul game, this business. For example Easter Bonus made me about £50 profit last year (after all expenses, not counting labour of course). Then this year I relaunched it and one distributor, ahem Oberon Media, did really good - it sold tons and I'm well into profit now. Also I sell a reasonable number of copies of my games every month, month in/month out even though they are totally seasonal games. Non-seasonal games like Oz keep on selling too of course. Basically I think the idea is to build up a wdge of games on your site, also stick some main-stream titles on for affiliate sales, maybe get some advertising revenue and it all begins to add up...

Denmark. If you know C# and Delphi, I've got your hook-up.

Please - there could be children present!

Huh?

I dunno about walk off the street but I certainly got paid that doing Delphi work, but I had built up skills in it for 9 years (and no documented qualifications in IT)

I'm in it for the community experience, to get together with like-minded individuals and create cool stuff.

...

That's a hint, in case anyone didn't notice it.

Call me! invite me into your teams! <sobs>

Heh, I'm moving to wherever that is.



Dirty Joke, mate.

Bummber news about Oberon Media, mate. :/

Onward and upward!

Too bad, man... but dont give up, maybe you can make a deal with another publisher, just keep trying.

As for why I do it, well... I just dont have other options - I HAVE TO make games - even when I'm working on something else, I just cant stop thinking on what I can do, how I can do it... it's in the blood :)