I own both these 3D Engines. I am interested in hearing which one people prefer and why.
Which one would you currently use for your projects?
Which one would you currently use for your projects?
TV3D vs 3impact
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/TV3D vs 3impact There was a post a fair while ago that detailed the pros and (many) cons of each. Might be worth looking for it.
I'd definately go for TV3D. I've used the 6.2 version 6 months ago for evaluation and it's
- more flexible
- faster
- easy to use
I don't like 3impact, I evaluated this one as well but it seemed to me like a DirectX wrapper (DirectPlay for networking, just .x file format) with attached physics. It's a shame to sell that for $200.
- more flexible
- faster
- easy to use
I don't like 3impact, I evaluated this one as well but it seemed to me like a DirectX wrapper (DirectPlay for networking, just .x file format) with attached physics. It's a shame to sell that for $200.
3impact is rubbish..
I thought 3impact was rubbish too. I tried TV3D 6,2 but didn't see anything special in it. Havent tried 6.5 obviously, but what little I've seen of it had nice if somewhat generic shaders in the screenshots.
Looks like they finaly released an update to TV3D 6.3 after what seems like years of 6.2
Looks like they finaly released an update to TV3D 6.3 after what seems like years of 6.2
And they still haven't released 6.5 yet...
None of those... :O)
Truevision 3D for the same reasons as f4. 3Impact, from my experience, was poorly designed and implemented. I haven't tried it recently, but I really don't care to.
lol@ Naughty Alien... "rubbish" hahahahahahahahaha!
hahahahahahahahahaha!
Games have been completed in 3impact, that kung-fu one and that lamborgini racing game. So it can't be all rubbish. I've never used it so I can't really have an opinion on it but my impression of it is that it is a bit clunky, or clumsy. It seems to have a lot of wierd ways of doing things. Also, I thought the physics system was too slow.
hahahahahahahahahaha!
Games have been completed in 3impact, that kung-fu one and that lamborgini racing game. So it can't be all rubbish. I've never used it so I can't really have an opinion on it but my impression of it is that it is a bit clunky, or clumsy. It seems to have a lot of wierd ways of doing things. Also, I thought the physics system was too slow.
..ok..its not rubbish..its crap :)
markcw: thats no sign that something is good ... people completed games with DarkBasic as well (I really like Firewall which was done by a friend of mine back then) and I've to say that this does not make a crap engine with crap and slow language any better :)
The products created with it don't shed a light on the quality of the engine ... just on the capability of the programers and designer :)
The products created with it don't shed a light on the quality of the engine ... just on the capability of the programers and designer :)
But it does show good things can be done with it.
Naughty Alien, rubbish and crap are basically the same imo. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I just had to laugh at your opinion of it.
Dreamora, I wasn't saying 3impact is a "good" 3d engine. I did criticise it didn't I? I was just stating a fact, that you can make a game with it.
I think it depends on whether you like the engine/language enough to work with it.
Dreamora, I wasn't saying 3impact is a "good" 3d engine. I did criticise it didn't I? I was just stating a fact, that you can make a game with it.
I think it depends on whether you like the engine/language enough to work with it.
@markcw
thats okay man :) its just me and few beers more ;)
thats okay man :) its just me and few beers more ;)
I do hope Unity 2 wont have the same problems as V1...
Which ones did you experience?
im oficially interested in to this..
As mentioned on the Unity website, the main killer was variables modification in one script from another was producing unwanted side effects - another instance of the script was being created, and thus creating a new iteration of the variable.
It should be noted that I should be getting a refund for it.
It should be noted that I should be getting a refund for it.
Never ran into such problems. My main concern was about the bad and broken openGL drivers in the windows world and glitches to crashes resulting due to this but now there is a DirectX9 renderpath, so hurray!
In my opinion v2 overall is a good update for most of the people. For what i need, i miss things here and there but i hope that some of these things show up in 2.x release.
Did you ask them for a refund or did you try out their demo before?
In my opinion v2 overall is a good update for most of the people. For what i need, i miss things here and there but i hope that some of these things show up in 2.x release.
Did you ask them for a refund or did you try out their demo before?
@Nicholas
It means that same source you used to do script over same level will not work let say from version 1.x up to version 2.x ?
It means that same source you used to do script over same level will not work let say from version 1.x up to version 2.x ?
Did you ask them for a refund or did you try out their demo before?
Tried the demo; brought the Professional version; asked for a refund.
It means that same source you used to do script over same level will not work let say from version 1.x up to version 2.x ?
Sorry !?
@Nicholas
And what did they say? Do you still want it?
@Naughty Alien
I think you got something mixed up here. Nicholas had a different problem, not one which was related to scripting interoperability between V1 and V2.
And what did they say? Do you still want it?
@Naughty Alien
I think you got something mixed up here. Nicholas had a different problem, not one which was related to scripting interoperability between V1 and V2.
oh..sorryyy..my baddd
And what did they say? Do you still want it?
They're quite willing to give a refund (unfortunately paying into my PayPal account didn't work for some reason as there was some type of processing error at the end of the routine), so I'm supposed to be getting a cheque of some sort - I'll give them to the end of this month before chasing it up.
Its been removed my my system too.
Its possibly I may try V2, but I would have to think very long and hard about it.
Maybe i would just try out the demo and look how it feels instead of thinking too long! ;O) What did you dislike beside of the problem you've encountered?
..guys can you describe that problem with Unity, regarding Nicolas complaining?? Please??
There were several other problems : Stuff in the Project was modified when the program was running which was also annoying; had numerous crashes (at a rate of around 1 per week), and other irksome things. To shamelessly plug my Blogs, they are mentioned in slightly more detail there.
Other annoyances include : File access - not detail anywhere (probably expect you not to do any File I/O), although it is possible. It does make level design problematic when you want to do things using another editor (ie for my ex-game, I used Mappy to design the levels, but due to lack of info in the I/O department, I had to do each level as a prefab - wrote my own Javascript exporter for Mappy for that very occasion.
Prefabs are a pain - cant always update positions and things without moving them into the main editor and then back again.
2D co-ordination is very weird - 0,0 is in the centre of a screen, whilst 0,1 is at the top (or bottom - cant remember which) of the screen. Why do it like this !? And the position changes depending on resolution.
Calling functions and variables in other scripts can be a pain - and is very hard to get working.
On the plus points, the graphics are very good, and it does run very well.
I'm not exactly enamoured towards RAD systems anyway - I would prefered just to use Unity as a 3D engine, but alas, you cant do that. Something like DarkGDK or BlitzSDK would be nice (yes, I know there is C4, but I dont want to keep hunting through the source code in order to get things working).
Thought you were already using Unity.
Other annoyances include : File access - not detail anywhere (probably expect you not to do any File I/O), although it is possible. It does make level design problematic when you want to do things using another editor (ie for my ex-game, I used Mappy to design the levels, but due to lack of info in the I/O department, I had to do each level as a prefab - wrote my own Javascript exporter for Mappy for that very occasion.
Prefabs are a pain - cant always update positions and things without moving them into the main editor and then back again.
2D co-ordination is very weird - 0,0 is in the centre of a screen, whilst 0,1 is at the top (or bottom - cant remember which) of the screen. Why do it like this !? And the position changes depending on resolution.
Calling functions and variables in other scripts can be a pain - and is very hard to get working.
On the plus points, the graphics are very good, and it does run very well.
I'm not exactly enamoured towards RAD systems anyway - I would prefered just to use Unity as a 3D engine, but alas, you cant do that. Something like DarkGDK or BlitzSDK would be nice (yes, I know there is C4, but I dont want to keep hunting through the source code in order to get things working).
Maybe i would just try out the demo and look how it feels instead of thinking too long!
Thought you were already using Unity.
Do you need a MAC for Unity3d ?
Okay thanks, i was just curious to see how you feel about it and what your problems were a little bit more in detail.
Proper documentation is one of the things i always try to tell them to improve and at least they now hired a person also for this purpose, so it's most likely that the docs will improve over time. I still would prefer arranging and offering the information in a different way but at least you'll get more flesh which you can already see in the v2 docs.
File access could be easier but did you know that you can directly access assets via the special Folder Resources with Resources.Load?
Prefabs are a thing which everyone seems to like and which i simply don't use. I just clone my stuff via script, i don't like prefabs.
As for the 2D coordinate system 0.5/0.5 is the center. It starts in the lower/left corner (0/0) and goes up to the upper/right corner (1/1). You have to take care of your pixel insest settings as there you can provide information where the anchor of the gfx is. This way you often can spare yourself all the /2... or *0.5... calculations for proper positioning. Just like you would work on a sheet of paper. Same with Milliseconds: You just go with 0.001 seconds instead. I wish they would use obvious metrics all the way, also for the whole transformation system like in modo for instance.
The way you code is nicer in BlitzMax (i love the language) but for a lot of cases it's also easier to achieve results in unity as you don't have to care about the object orientation (just drag a script (visually or by code) and drop it on an object) but i know what you mean. It really depends on the purpose and where you're coming from.
You can do almost everything via script too and so you don't have to use the IDE. There are a few functions which aren't accessible via script yet but they will, as the goal is to allow both: full access via IDE and script.
>>>
Thought you were already using Unity.
<<<
Yep, i meant this for you...
Proper documentation is one of the things i always try to tell them to improve and at least they now hired a person also for this purpose, so it's most likely that the docs will improve over time. I still would prefer arranging and offering the information in a different way but at least you'll get more flesh which you can already see in the v2 docs.
File access could be easier but did you know that you can directly access assets via the special Folder Resources with Resources.Load?
Prefabs are a thing which everyone seems to like and which i simply don't use. I just clone my stuff via script, i don't like prefabs.
As for the 2D coordinate system 0.5/0.5 is the center. It starts in the lower/left corner (0/0) and goes up to the upper/right corner (1/1). You have to take care of your pixel insest settings as there you can provide information where the anchor of the gfx is. This way you often can spare yourself all the /2... or *0.5... calculations for proper positioning. Just like you would work on a sheet of paper. Same with Milliseconds: You just go with 0.001 seconds instead. I wish they would use obvious metrics all the way, also for the whole transformation system like in modo for instance.
The way you code is nicer in BlitzMax (i love the language) but for a lot of cases it's also easier to achieve results in unity as you don't have to care about the object orientation (just drag a script (visually or by code) and drop it on an object) but i know what you mean. It really depends on the purpose and where you're coming from.
You can do almost everything via script too and so you don't have to use the IDE. There are a few functions which aren't accessible via script yet but they will, as the goal is to allow both: full access via IDE and script.
>>>
Thought you were already using Unity.
<<<
Yep, i meant this for you...
Does TV3D supply a scene management system ?
Does TV3D supply a scene management system ?
Can you be a bit more specific about what you mean by a scene management system?
@Alberto
Yep the IDE is OSX only at the moment. It will move to win but not this soon.
Yep the IDE is OSX only at the moment. It will move to win but not this soon.
As for the 2D coordinate system 0.5/0.5 is the center
Yes, I forgot where the coordinates were in Unity - its been a while since I've used it....
One thing I didn't forget to mention is that if any two objects were to register a collision, at least one needs to be a rigid body. Which is fine if you want to use physics, but not so great if you want to just register a collision between "ordinary" non-physics objects. Its probably a limit with Ageia, but its annoying anyway.
Yep, i meant this for you...
I did try the demo, although in a limited capacity at the time
For scene management system I mean BSP or octree for culling, thus reducing the number of tris to be rendered as well as for collision detection with the world
From this point of view 3Impact is quite a tiny engine even though I like it
From this point of view 3Impact is quite a tiny engine even though I like it
Yep the IDE is OSX only at the moment. It will move to win but not this soon.
Thanks, good news because its list of features is quite impressive even though I have never used it
Thanks, good news because its list of features is quite impressive even though I have never used it
3Impact is very good for physics. Unfortunately, your code is called (one function, that is) every frame or so, which means you need a state system for titles, main game etc etc.
Whether its changed since I had it (early last year), I dont know.
I certainly liked Truevision - its just a shame its taking so long for 6.5 to come out; its almost vapourware.
Whether its changed since I had it (early last year), I dont know.
I certainly liked Truevision - its just a shame its taking so long for 6.5 to come out; its almost vapourware.
"Regarding RigidBody"
Hmm, never found this one annoying and it also wasn't a stopper in the workflow for me.
Hmm, never found this one annoying and it also wasn't a stopper in the workflow for me.
It was something I never mentioned to the people at Unity - which was naughty of me :)
I found it rather annoying myself, as well as something else too, which I wont go into as we're supposed to be talking about 3Impact and Truevision :)
I found it rather annoying myself, as well as something else too, which I wont go into as we're supposed to be talking about 3Impact and Truevision :)
For scene management system I mean BSP or octree for culling, thus reducing the number of tris to be rendered as well as for collision detection with the world
6.3 uses BSP and 6.5 uses Octree. I think there's a BSP loader for 6.5 too, but I can't say for sure because I haven't tested it. For me, BSP is just making things slower on vaguely modern machines. I potentially might use Octree at some point though.
I certainly liked Truevision - its just a shame its taking so long for 6.5 to come out; its almost vapourware.
How can it possibly be vapourware when every single paying customer has been using it for years ( or since the day they bought it ) ?
Cant buy it yet though, without having to get 6.2/6.3 and then the beta.
The important thing is its still not out of beta yet, and not availiable for purchase on its own. "Coming Soon" has never taken so long :)
The important thing is its still not out of beta yet, and not availiable for purchase on its own. "Coming Soon" has never taken so long :)
For me, BSP is just making things slower on vaguely modern machines. I potentially might use Octree at some point though.
This is an interesting issue
I have read that Oct-tree came first , BSP was an enhanced version
Moreover all the professional engines ( > 100.000 usd I mean) use BSP
But someone else claims the direct opposite, same as you
This is an interesting issue
I have read that Oct-tree came first , BSP was an enhanced version
Moreover all the professional engines ( > 100.000 usd I mean) use BSP
But someone else claims the direct opposite, same as you
Its possible that BSP are preferred for indoor scenes, whilst Octree are for mixed/outdoor scenes...
How many people are developing truevision3d?
How large is the userbase?
From a quick observation of their forum it looks like there isn't much steam behind the product (i also remember that 6.5 has been announced since quite some time now) and there also isn't a lot of traffic in their forum.
How large is the userbase?
From a quick observation of their forum it looks like there isn't much steam behind the product (i also remember that 6.5 has been announced since quite some time now) and there also isn't a lot of traffic in their forum.
Cant buy it yet though, without having to get 6.2/6.3 and then the beta.
The important thing is its still not out of beta yet, and not availiable for purchase on its own.
The important thing is its still not out of beta yet, and not availiable for purchase on its own.
Semantics. If you pay, you get it. The fact that you get the other engine as well ( if you want it, personally I've never touched it ) is hardly a downside.
I have read that Oct-tree came first , BSP was an enhanced version.
Octree may or may not have come first, I couldn't tell you. BSP is in no way similar, so neither could be an enhanced version of the other. Octree is a simpler, faster method of culling, much more suited to modern graphics cards which work best when given big chunks of polygons to render. It's suitable for any type of game, and both indoor and outdoor environments. It's not particularly suited to the genre. BSP ( and portals, which are do have similarities to BSP ) are not at all suited to outdoor environments, involve sending a lot of small batches to the videocard which is nice for GF2 or older videocards, but not good for more modern hardware and not suited for anything but FPS and FPS-alikes.
How many people are developing truevision3d?
Three, that I know of, but things I've read lead me to believe that others may be involved.
How large is the userbase?
I have no idea. I assume that would be financially sensitive information, and would probably not be made public.
From a quick observation of their forum it looks like there isn't much steam behind the product (i also remember that 6.5 has been announced since quite some time now) and there also isn't a lot of traffic in their forum.
It's my understanding that they have a lot of corporate clients who are unlikely to participate in forums. For the non-corporate clients, it's been my experience that a lot more gets done in the IRC channels than gets done in forums. Imagine an IRC channel where you could sit and talk to Mark and Simon about a bug you'd found and you could wait while they make the change, recompile and send you the fixed update. That's kind of how things work with TV3D.
Okay, thanks!
Semantics. If you pay, you get it.
But only in beta form - and thats the important bit.
Has the networking and media engine been finished yet, or does the beta just have the 3D system, and the rest still being worked on ?
Why would any corporate customer (assuming they have a schedule to release products by) buy an engine thats been in beta for 2 years or so with no word of a release date. You can't even release media or demo's to the public which leaves it all but useless except for research purposes.
IRC channels where you can talk to the authors is common place everywhere except here but you would expect corporate clients to have more direct access to the developers and a proper bug tracking system.
Plus Forums keep a more permanant record of discussions and enable people to consider their problem before posting. IRC just ends up as a long casual discussion, makes people less productive, is temporary with messy logs that would be hard to track.
So 3Impact, not a great engine, but you can use it today, and publish anything you make with it right now.
TV3D, you can buy it now, good luck finding any new media about the engine before purchase. Everything on the page is ancient news, its all top secret and you can't show anyone else what your doing with it, let alone release anything. Kind of reminds me of scientology.
IRC channels where you can talk to the authors is common place everywhere except here but you would expect corporate clients to have more direct access to the developers and a proper bug tracking system.
Plus Forums keep a more permanant record of discussions and enable people to consider their problem before posting. IRC just ends up as a long casual discussion, makes people less productive, is temporary with messy logs that would be hard to track.
So 3Impact, not a great engine, but you can use it today, and publish anything you make with it right now.
TV3D, you can buy it now, good luck finding any new media about the engine before purchase. Everything on the page is ancient news, its all top secret and you can't show anyone else what your doing with it, let alone release anything. Kind of reminds me of scientology.
...which again leaves unity as quite a good solution.
But no matter what i use in a few years or so i'll also buy max3d, if it stays in BRL typical price regions, just so that i can say to my grandchildren: I was with it. Since the birth of BlitzMax we've waited for this! :O)
But no matter what i use in a few years or so i'll also buy max3d, if it stays in BRL typical price regions, just so that i can say to my grandchildren: I was with it. Since the birth of BlitzMax we've waited for this! :O)
MrTAoad: You're getting hung up on words and semantics, and missing the big picture. I don't mind, it's your loss.
Evak: I realize you're desperate to plug your Ogre Wrapper and I'm sorry your other project is on hold, but do we have to turn every discussion of any 3d engine into a thread full of falsehoods and misinformation? I'd be hard pressed to pick one sentence from that which is accurate.
Evak: I realize you're desperate to plug your Ogre Wrapper and I'm sorry your other project is on hold, but do we have to turn every discussion of any 3d engine into a thread full of falsehoods and misinformation? I'd be hard pressed to pick one sentence from that which is accurate.
You're getting hung up on words and semantics, and missing the big picture.
You cant see a picture if its not there, and all you see is a white area on the wall. But thats not my problem.
Since the birth of BlitzMax we've waited for this! :O)
And we'll probably have to wait quite a while unfortunately. An easy-to-use 3D system is what Macs need...
Unity 2.0 is supposed to be out in the Summer - so I presume its supposed to be out very soon...
Evak: I realize you're desperate to plug your Ogre Wrapper and I'm sorry your other project is on hold, but do we have to turn every discussion of any 3d engine into a thread full of falsehoods and misinformation? I'd be hard pressed to pick one sentence from that which is accurate.
So whats the story? all I see is evasivness in your responses above. As for flow, I havent bothered to push it because its quite some ways off, and currently not something were interested in selling to the public till we have time to release and support it properly. Actually I decided to take my sig off till were closer to being ready to release. I never mentioned ogre at all, and you keep using my sig against me.
"It's my understanding"
"it's been my experience"
Doesn't really add up to much. So what is going on with TV3D exactly?
Why should people choose a closed beta engine over the competition?
What outstanding features make it better than the rest?
I'm interested, because when I was looking for an engine a year or so ago TV3d which just recently turned 6.3 just didn't have anything worth risking spending money on.
Also what commercial projects are being developed or have been completed with TV3D within the last year?
..Flow sounds good to me from early begining..and if it will be for PB too..mmm...