Blitz3DSDK Press Release

In case you missed it on the front page:



Please feel free to post on your favorite news sites.

BRING ME MY BEER!

Yeh - BLITZ 3D Rules!!!

$100 for the SDK, and $100 for Blitz3D?
Surely better to just buy Blitz3D and be done with it.

How different is it to MiniB3D?

Blitz3D is great if you just want to write your application from Blitz 3D without object orientation, however, if you want to use a combination of C++, assembler, C and object orientation, BlitzMax is the way forward; with the Blitz3D SDK, you get the advantage of being able to develop 3d apps also.

I just bought it. :)

With tax it came to just over £65.

I wonder if it would be possible to get it to work with the $1000 360 XNA pro gamedev club at all.

Evak,

Nah! I would think not, XNA is DirectX10 isn't it? B3d is only DX7 - sigh but now I wonder how long it will take for some bright spark to start adding DX9 stuff to the sdk so we can finally get some newer technology inside B3d, which would be nice, but not necessary.

IPete2.

Can we get under the covers with this ala BMAX (tweaking and adding to source)? If so then you've got an order!

No.

I don't see the point in paying full price for something I've already paid for in a different packaging. Certainly not for tinkering around with, which is all I seem to be doing anyway =]

Oh well, my first non-bought BRL product. Shame that.

Will games made with this SDK run faster than B3D compiled?

Well the graphics stuff isn't likely to be any different, but the core logic, physics, AI, etc should all be faster.

Yes it's a niche product and is not applicable to many in current userbase.

Me and James pushed Mark hard to release this and he caved and gave me the contract to package it up. I did take it upon myself to fix a few things in the engine which will hopefully find their way into blitz3d199 (there were 99 free updates on the wall, 99 free updates on the wall...) so think of the SDK subsidising blitz3d development if you are still bitter.

How does it interact with BMax? Can you use Max2d on top of it, for example? Can you use it in tandem with MaxGUI?

A fine and usefull product.

Through a module and a dll.

No.

Yes. See Filax' model viewer thingy for an example.

Hand it over.

I am naked and have the baby oil slapped on nice and thick - I'm a slug in-heat.

Great news!

I own both bmax and blitz3d... an upgrade price would definitely be a good thing for me.

I like the way Mark has done business in the past month or so, worklogs, new products.. keep it up!

I bought all Blitz products and I think you should give it for free for people who bought both B3D and BMax or at least offer a very generous discount for them!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't want to really get involved in this whole discount for existing users of blitz3d+blitzmax. If brl choose not to, so be it. However, if i went into a shop and saw an item ie pair of boxing gloves which, although exactly the same as what i have except better straps were on sale i would think ..nice but i will stick with the ones i have. Now if the same were to happen but the gloves were very much discounted ie 50% of original price i might just take a second look as my gloves are proven and getting another pair with better straps would be a great benefit.

Skip rambles...
Point is, wouldn't it be a smart move to offer the product discounted to existing blitz3d+blitzmax users who have both products. This would get way more sales from existing and loyal customers who are slightly interested but the price is off putting, whereas a discount may make them buy it and give brl another sale which they may have not gotten.

ps i am on the fence, i have both blitz3d+max and although see blitz3d sdk as a good thing, i wont buy something i already have and need to rebuy to use in another language for the same price. I will just get a newer engine ie truevision3d if i decide to start using bmax again.

Can you guys wrap up a couple of demos please and also provide some explanation as to how the API would give us access to goodies such as the stencil buffer, shadows etc. I know the latter are not standard BLitz3D functions.

not update for blitz3d???

alpha surface z-fighting issues fixed
fix added for ATI discard buffer driver delays
loading masked textures uses alpha channel from source file if present
optimizations to render order for reducing surface state changes

Yes, there will be an update (again free) for Blitz3d...

It doesn't -- it basically provides you with the same 2D/3D/audio/input command set as Blitz3D. The difference is that you're not tied to the Blitz3D syntax if you find it limiting, as some do. It gives BRL a wider potential market for sales of the engine since it should be possible to use from any language that can call Win32 DLLs.

Demos don't really look any different to samples run from the Blitz3D demo (or Blitz3D itself), but here's an example of how the source code looks in PureBasic (note that you can't have single-line Ifs in PB for some reason):

IncludeFile "blitz3dsdk.pbi"

bbBeginBlitz3D ()

bbSetBlitz3DTitle ("PB Cube - use cursors to move, ESC to exit", "Are you sure?")

bbGraphics3D (640, 480, 0, 2)

cam = bbCreateCamera ()
cube = bbCreateCube ()
light = bbCreateLight ()

bbMoveEntity (cube, 0, 0, 5)
bbMoveEntity (light, -10, 5, -1)
bbPointEntity (light, cube)

Repeat

    If bbKeyDown (#KEY_LEFT)
        bbTurnEntity (cube, 0, -0.5, 0)
    EndIf

    If bbKeyDown (#KEY_RIGHT)
        bbTurnEntity (cube, 0, 0.5, 0)
    EndIf

    If bbKeyDown (#KEY_UP)
        bbTurnEntity (cube, 1, 0, 0, 0)
    EndIf

    If bbKeyDown (#KEY_DOWN)
        bbTurnEntity (cube, -1, 0, 0, 0)
    EndIf
    
    bbRenderWorld ()
    bbFlip ()
    
Until bbKeyHit (#KEY_ESCAPE)

bbEndBlitz3D ()

End

Code for C/C++ looks pretty much the same, except for the {} brackets used, Repeat -> while {} and the include statement, eg.

	while (!bbKeyHit(1)){
		if(bbKeyDown(200)) bbTurnEntity(cam_pivot,3,0,0);
		if(bbKeyDown(208)) bbTurnEntity(cam_pivot,-3,0,0);
		if(bbKeyDown(203)) bbTurnEntity(cam_pivot,0,3,0);
		if(bbKeyDown(205)) bbTurnEntity(cam_pivot,0,-3,0);	
		bbTurnEntity(teapot,.1,.3,0);	
		bbUpdateWorld();
		bbRenderWorld();
		bbFlip();
	}

Would existing libraries, for example the Devil Shadowsystem, be compatible?

Pricing is out of whack for this.

Most people who will be interested in this will already own Blitz3D or BlitzMax.

Charging Blitz3D owners the same again for essentially the Blitz3D 3D engine without the language/IDE is ludicrous.

I will just wait for the free update to Blitz3D, as I am sure BlitzMax owners will carry on using miniB3D.

$50 and I would buy it (I already own Blitz3D, Blitz+ and BlitzMax), $100 = no chance.

James & Skid,
"so think of the SDK subsidising blitz3d development if you are still bitter."

For the umpteenth time, if Mark needs subsidising then I'm sure that none of us would have any problem stumping up the money for Blitz3D all over again if it had a few extras and improvements. After all, I think I must have downloaded at least 12 free updates since I originally bought B3D. I know of no other product that has provided free updates for this length of time.

I wish this was available some months back, when I purchased Blitz3D... using Blitz engine on C/C++ would be a big improvement, specially if it came with source, so it could be extended.

But $100 for it, I have to agree, is too much for people already with B3D/BMax. If I would buy one of them today - without having the others - the SDK would be the way to go, because it wouldnt limit you to an specific language or IDE.

One drawback: using SDK will probably have lower stability when compared to B3D, mainly because the programmer will have access to create a lot of stuff which wouldnt be automatically freed from memory when the program finishes...

The good side is using the SDK with C/C++ should be much faster, specially when you need heavy calculations in your program.

As far as I'm concerned, BRL have the right to charge whatever they like for their products. However, I'm a tad confused as to why B+ owners got a discount on MaxGUI, whereas existing Blitz3D owners aren't getting a similar discount on the SDK. Oh, well.

I agree. They have the right to charge as much as they think it's worth.

But I was hoping for a lower price than B3D (since B3D has the IDE, which is a lot of extra coding, so it should be more expensive than just the engine), and also for a discout for B3D owners.

Now it's just about what people will do... some will buy, some not... as much as I would like to have this SDK, spending another $100 is completly out of my reach :(

but anyway - if the alpha Z-sort problem gets fixed on B3D because of this, I'm already happy :)

They can do what they like but they are losing existing custom from many of us who would buy it at a lower price.

Not as confused as I was when I bought Maplet and then it was released for free! :)

Still, onwards and upwards, as they say on Mars

Dabz

I thought puki was the only one to actually pay for Maplet. :P

No, he stole it! :P

Dabz

I don't care the price, but B3DSDK can't give what I want, ann doesn;t make thing easier... I'll wait.

With the greatest of respect to BRL, I think BlitzPlus was something which was put together hurriedly to give them something that Idigicon weren't selling and that had extra features, but it was never originally on the roadmap. So when BlitzMax came long and BlitzPlus hadn't really had as much work to the GUI as BlitzMax had, it probably didn't seem fair to expect people to pay again for the GUI. I agree that this was probably too generous and probably has helped to create the situation we now see where people have been spoiled for too long.

However, anyone would have a hard time convincing me that they haven't had their money's worth from Blitz3D.

Absolutely! :)

Blitz3D has paid for itself in my case many times over - not just in software sales but in the pure pleasure I get from tinkering with it. All in all it must be the best software purchase I have ever made.
$100 dollars is not much by todays standards and the more money BRL get to carry on developing such great products the better.

skidracer:


Heh. Good job. :)

Worth every cent, I think.

Well. I own B3D, B+, BMax and MaxGUI. I even purchased MaxGUI before the B+ deal was announced. Am I mad about it? Am I mad that I have to pay for the SDK? No. Every purchase was my own decision. No-one held the gun pointed at me and forced me to buy. And ever purchase paid for itself a long time ago. So, to cut the long story short, I'll purchase the SDK because I'd like to use it with some other languages which are not even officially supported (Emergence BASIC, Aurora, Power Basic). $100 is nothing compared to all the fun I'll be getting from playing in other environments and still using the tried and trusted B3D engine. The fun of programming is priceless!

Barney

I don't see why anyone feels they NEED to purchase Blitz3D again if they already own the basic version. The two products are intended for a completely different audience, mostly a more experienced crowd who need a little more flexibility with a more mature language to work with.

Most of those people probably have done well out of B3D already, or didn't use it because Basic is too limiting for them but like the idea of simple low resource render engine in C++ etc.

i do wait on a DirectX9/10 conversion update. My lifetime is long.

2 skidracer
If you have sources, can you also fix bug with MAV after loging off and loging on (Win+L), please?

So, skidracer is officially part of the BRL team! Yay!

ha! - good stuff, i will grab this on payday - want to play about with this in C++. The only downside is that b3d is kinda dated now...still should be great for small
projects + i no longer have to deal with blitz3d language
limitations :)

Cheers! - now go persuade mark to support inlined
assembly in bmax :p ;)

So are all those unfinished projects of yours. Get off your arse, I wanna play :P

Please let me know as this is very important.

Not directly, no. But if you have the source for it, it should be a fairly trivial matter for one of your skill to port it.

To clarify my earlier post, I of course would have no qualms with paying for the difference between B3D and B3DSDK, which is basically along the same lines as 'discount please'.


Splendid that BRL are finally trying to reach out to wider audiences, but why not entice current BRL loyalists to part with some cash, instead of having us pay you 0?

I would like to tinker with this in Max, but, well. You know.

This is frickin' awesome!

I'm going to go against my usual stance and say I think a discount for existing B3Ders would have been a good move. That's not to say it's not a great product for 100 buck. Psychology being what it is, they would probably have had more sales to Blitzers if it was $100 for us and $150 for others!

I personally have not interest in the product, so this isn't an effort to get myself a discount.

I think this would be great for non gamers as well.
3D Visualization can now be easy in c/c++. The stigma of the word Basic can be bypassed.

<3D Visualization can now be easy in c/c++.

This _is_ already easy in C/C++ if you use a proper engine. ;)

100$ !!!
Are you kidding ?
This should be free to all Blitz3D owners !

This engine is way to old and i don't want to loose my time anymore.
It's a shame...

I retract my previous statement somewhat ... I thought we were getting the source code to B3D as we would Torque, OGRE, or any other modern competing tool. We need a Blitz C++ SDK that includes the source so we can really do whatever we want with it but it still allows us to take advantage of Mark's unique and elegant design capabilities.

Why?
Blitz3dSDK is not for Blitz3d user! Blitz3d users have already it in the form of Blitz3d!!!
If:
-you are a C/C++/VB/.Net/Purebasic(maybe DarkBasic!!...) programmer
-you have BlitzMax and you want a stable 3d engine (windows only and DirectX7)
-you have NOT blitz3d
buy it.
Every Blitz3d users should thank BRL to have for FREE any update (and the last one annunced should offer a significant speed boost).

These two statements contradict each other, in my case.

...it will be interesting only with source included..

thing is a lot of Render engines have a high level API and work like Blitz3D already. The biggest difference being you have to put together your own framework and modules that give you the extra functionality needed to make games. But much of the functionality of blitz3D with easy transforms and rotations, entity system, materials and what not is readily avaliable from any number of engines out there in other languages.

Not paying for it, sorry but I have to agree with the others above.

I own 2 copies of B3D, and 1 copy of Bmax, I sure as hell will not pay out for another Blitz 3D and thats all it is.

www.rip-off-brl.com

definitely agree on the point that without the source, the engine SDK is definitely not the way to go.

If I want closed source, proven engines, then there are other in +- the same price range that use current gen technology and do not create that massive problems with modern cards (anyone with GF6+ here and the wrong driver version? so they know what I mean ... try non square non power2 textures on a GF6 to see it yourself)

I got TGE for 150$ which at least can say of it self of having creating several commercial known topsellers and it comes with sources.


Best move for the SDK would be

1. closed source for more designer like people at 50-75$, as 100$ is Blitz3D which includes an own compiler and ide. As long as the SDK does not give me an IDE and compiler, I don't see the reason for the same price, as it is a subset of Blitz3D then. (saying that the docs are better is a con to Blitz3D not a pro of the SDK. just because one sucks this does actually not make the other end better if it is sold from the same "company". would be as if apple and ms created OS with no help files and then create new ones with help files but still the same problems and sell it at the same price as the original without any upgrade discount. doing that twice and you are on court)

2. There should be a source license. Priced around 150$ I would say, as it wouldn't be able to compete otherwise anymore (with "Dark Basics" GDK / GDK.NET to name the main concurrent to blitz3d since day 1 *which costs 60$ for freeware usage, 200$ for full commercial*, leadwerks engine, nuclear fusion, TGE, TV3D etc out there)

But I have to agree that it is up to BRL to decide the price.
Its just the question if they want to sell it and if they want to make sure that loyal fellows get a serious rip off feeling due to the massively slowed down update rate on Blitz3D / BlitzPlus since BM has been released (which still isn't at the point where it could be called a modern or even current gen language)

So thanks to Skidracer and James! And Mark for eventually listening. I intend to buy next pay day and use C++ with it. A familiar and easy to use engine for C++ - great! One of BRL's better decisions, and the reason I've become interested in them again.

EDIT: Changed my mind about posting my frustration.

Why did you do that? I thought you had a valid point! :/

Oh well...

Dabz