XNA update with shared binaries announced :)

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A new update for XNA Game Studio Express lets users build and share game binaries for both Windows and Xbox 360, Microsoft announced today.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5346&Itemid=2

LAB[au]

Good news, now all I want is webcam and network support (both on windows and xbox360).

Jeremy Alessi

This is great news ... in addition to the fact that the first commercial game using XNA is also done ... including network support for Xbox Live Arcade ;) I'm keeping a very very close eye on XNA and I do think it will be the definitive platform for indie developers who want to make console games.

IPete2

I'm with you Jeremy,

I spent some time over Christmas last year getting into INX version 2 - since then I have been working on a medium term project due to end in August - I would love to convert that project onto XNA.

IPete2.

Dabz

I like XNA, I'm currently building something in it right now! :)

Dabz

deps

I wish Nintendo had something similar for pc/mac and Wii. :/
(for people like me without a big heap of money or working for a game company)

John Galt

Can some bright spark write a Blitz->XNA converter? I can't be bothered learning another language and I would willingly pay for it.

But seriously, do you think we'll ever see Blitz on X360? The reason I ask is that Mark mentioned XNA and consoles in his last worklog.

FlameDuck

I do think it will be the definitive platform for indie developers who want to make console games.

Why would you think that? If you can't get on the console with your PC game, you can't get on them with your X360 game.

Do you know what the first thing Nintendo ask for when you approach them with a prospective project? A PC/DirectX demo. I imagine Sony and Microsoft aren't much different.

I wish Nintendo had something similar for pc/mac and Wii. :/

If you have a good game, they might just give you an SDK (certainly if you have the next potential Pokemon or The Sims). If not, you can buy them for as little as $2000 USD from what I hear.

I can't be bothered learning another language and I would willingly pay for it.

Not enough to make it worth someones while. Learning C# isn't particularly difficult tho'.

But seriously, do you think we'll ever see Blitz on X360?

No. Microsoft aren't in the habit of sharing their market with anyone. It works two ways. First of all, it keeps out anyone not serious enough to want to learn to use Microsofts tools, secondly it provides much needed income for the $26 billion USD black hole that is their console venture.

Dabz

Can some bright spark write a Blitz->XNA converter? I can't be bothered learning another language and I would willingly pay for it.

If there was an application for just a thing like that, you would still end up with TODO sections in the c# code, which either isnt recongnised by the convertor, or something you wrote just wont work under managed code.

Even converting C# to C++ using Instant C++ (C# Edition) leaves loads of TODO's, and C# is built upon C++ syntax wise!

So really, to fill in the gaps, you need to know C# anyway.

Dabz

mrtricks

#10

How much do you have to know about 3D engine programming to use XNA? I know using C# with XNA will obviously be much harder than B3D, but what kind of curve are we talking about?

Dabz

#11

I use XNA for 2D stuff, so I cannot really compare the 3D side of things, but here is a quick link for a 3D example:-

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb197293.aspx

Also, C# is a pretty nifty language, well, IMO, and even though you dont get the fully-fledged Visual IDE in the express edition, its still an absolute joy to work in!

Dabz

skidracer

#12

eek, run c# first, eek register, eek install sp2 (vc#express), eek install an alternative directx, eek, eek

thank goodness they make it sound so easy:

1.1.1. XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh Requires Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Service Pack 1

XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh requires that Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Service Pack 1 (SP1) be installed. Click the link below to download and install Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Service Pack 1.

* Visual C# 2005 Express Edition SP1 - download the file named VS80sp1-KB926749-X86-INTL.exe.

In addition, it is recommended that you use Windows Update to ensure that your software and drivers are up-to-date before you install XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh.

1.1.2. Upgrading from XNA Game Studio Express 1.0

If you have XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 installed, it is not necessary to uninstall it before installing XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh. However, XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh is not compatible with Beta versions of XNA Game Studio Express 1.0. Please uninstall any Beta versions of XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 before installing XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh.

Installing XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh will uninstall XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 and the 1.0 version of the XNA Framework Redistributable.

1.1.3. Run Visual C# 2005 Express Edition at Least Once Before Installing XNA Game Studio Express

You should run Visual C# 2005 Express Edition at least once before installing XNA Game Studio Express. Otherwise, features of XNA Game Studio Express may be missing from the user interface. For example, the XNA Game Studio Express Xbox 360 item in the Tools | Options dialog box may be missing. If you encounter this issue, we recommend that you do the following:

1. Uninstall XNA Game Studio Express.
2. Run Visual C# 2005 Express Edition.
3. Exit Visual C# 2005 Express Edition.
4. Reinstall XNA Game Studio Express.

1.1.4. Register Microsoft Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Before Installing XNA Game Studio Express

You must register Microsoft Visual C# 2005 Express Edition before installing XNA Game Studio Express. To register Visual C# 2005 Express Edition, click Register Product on the Help menu.

1.1.5. Close Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Before Installing XNA Game Studio Express

Before installing XNA Game Studio Express, close any running instances of Visual C# 2005 Express Edition.

1.1.6. Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit Edition Requires Visual Studio SP1 Update for Windows Vista

In order to run XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh with Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit Edition, you must install the Visual Studio SP1 Update for Windows Vista. Otherwise, Visual C# 2005 Express Edition will crash when you exit the application.

1.1.7. Install XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh Using Explorer on Windows Vista

Install XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh using Explorer on Windows Vista. Do not attempt to install XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh from a command prompt or from an administrator command prompt.

1.1.8. Uninstall XNA Game Studio Express Before Uninstalling Visual C# 2005 Express Edition

If you choose to uninstall Visual C# 2005 Express Edition, you must first uninstall XNA Game Studio Express. XNA Game Studio Express will not uninstall properly if Visual C# 2005 Express Edition is not currently installed.

1.1.9. DirectX Redistributable Files Removed Only on Uninstall

After you install XNA Game Studio Express, a copy of the DirectX redistributable files will exist in C:\Program Files\Microsoft XNA\XNA Game Studio Express\DXRedist. These are temporary files used by Setup and are not supported for direct use by developers. Uninstalling XNA Game Studio Express will uninstall these temporary files.

Dabz

#13

:)

If only John Smiths done the same for Enay's 'perfect pint' escapades! :D

Seriously though, its a breeze to install!

Dabz

FlameDuck

#14

C# is built upon C++ syntax wise!

Except it's Java and Delphi.

How much do you have to know about 3D engine programming to use XNA?

Everything.

Dabz

#15

Except it's Java and Delphi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp

C# (see section on naming, pronunciation) is an object-oriented programming language developed by Microsoft as part of their .NET initiative, and later approved as a standard by ECMA and ISO. C# has a procedural, object-oriented syntax based on C++ that includes aspects of several other programming languages (most notably Delphi and Java) with a particular emphasis on simplification (fewer symbolic requirements than C++, fewer declarative requirements than Java)

:P

Dabz

FlameDuck

#16

Thank you for reiterating my point. Stating that it "has a syntax based on C++" and then later stating that it has "fewer symbolic requirements than C++" is absurd, because the only thing that separates C++ syntax from C syntax are the symbolic requirements.

You'll also notice that the chief architect on C# was Anders Hejlsberg (who invented Delphi) and it's quite clear to anyone whose used either language that C# is the spiritual successor to Delphi, rather than C++. Hell the only reason C# even exists is (somewhat ironically) because Microsoft where caught blatantly violating it's Java license, which was promptly revoked by SUN. They chose to call it C# as a marketing device to get people to adopt it quicker than if it had been called "Blackbird".

Dabz

#17

So its based on C++, and its not based on C++!

At the end of the day, C# is a nice language, whereever the hell it came from, ! :)

Dabz

:P

dynaman

#18

> At the end of the day, C# is a nice language, whereever the hell it came from, ! :)

Not as nice as VB, but surely nice.

Dark Half

#19

eek, run c# first, eek register, eek install sp2 (vc#express), eek install an alternative directx, eek, eek

Sorry Skid, but the extra step of installing VSE SP1 still beats out waiting for the official Max3D :-P

I am currently doing C# with DX and XNA (started with DX, and with the new refresh, moving it over to XNA, which isn't hard at all), and I must say, C# is not a hard language to wrap your head around at all. Much easier than C++ IMO.

AdrianT

#20

if you don't have SP1 you can always install the VC2005 runtime library pack. Not perfect as its a 2.5mb download. But it does mean you don't have to install SP1.

http://www.apachelounge.com/download/vcredist_x86-sp1.exe

skidracer

#21

Sorry Skid, but the extra step of installing VSE SP1 still beats out waiting for the official Max3D :-P

Unless Max3D was a collection of half finished OpenGL or DirectX games each with their own 3D engine I don't see how the two are that similar.

I have no problem respecting what XNA is, but pitching it as a good introduction to video game development? For seasoned IT coders maybe...

simonh

#22

I have to say the whole XNA scene seems very quiet at the moment, especially the 360 side of things. I have a 4-month 'creators club' membership but looking on the main forums there's very little activity for something so heavily supported by MS. I can't even find any games to download.

Not surprising though given the costs involved. Two memberships at £40 + £30 just for the dubious priveledge of playing homebrew 360 games...

AdrianT

#23

its not that expensive, but not many people are going to be able to do anything worthwhile with it. You can use torque, but otherwise your stuck with writing everything yourself.

And do you really want to share your source. I think XNA and the Xbox thing will eventualy be a good way for experienced indies to get their games on Xbox live.

Paolo

#24

What's the deal when you are ready to sell your game?
I mean,
are you fixed with a "distribution-channel" or you can sell anywhere/anyway?
do you get all the profit or it's shared with Microsoft?
what about intellectual property, is it 100% yours?

thanks!
Paolo.

FlameDuck

#25

are you fixed with a "distribution-channel" or you can sell anywhere/anyway?

Yes.

do you get all the profit or it's shared with Microsoft?

Microsoft, like all publishers, are going to take the lions share of your profits.

what about intellectual property, is it 100% yours?

No. Read the EULA.

AdrianT

#26

Microsoft takes 50% from live arcade profits. And has some options for funding your game with money up front against royalties (if they really like your game).

Best bet is to produce a PC title and prove its sales potential as they are more likely to pick up established games from proven teams of developers.

Thats part of the reason XNA supports both 360 and PC in the first place.

That Marble blast game Garage Games released on live sold 60,000 copies in its first month or two and proved a good earner for them. Not sure what things are like now that there is stiffer competition and more games on live.

Dark Half

#27

Unless Max3D was a collection of half finished OpenGL or DirectX games each with their own 3D engine I don't see how the two are that similar.

Intended as a joke, but I see I hit a button. But to be honest, MAX3D seems to be a collection of rumors and hearsay... So my point being it's quicker to install the new XNA refresh (all steps involved) then wait around for MAX3d.

I have no problem respecting what XNA is, but pitching it as a good introduction to video game development? For seasoned IT coders maybe...

learning C# is nothing like learning C++, it's much easier to wrap your head around. it would be like learning B3D as opposed to C# (respectivly). A seasoned vetran will make quick work of XNA, just as a Seasoned Blitz coder would make quick work of B3D. But there are two points which will prevail:
A. The userbase will get large, a community of XBox360 developers alongside PC developers.
B. The documentation will always be up-to-date and updated released on a regular basis.

I have a 4-month 'creators club' membership but looking on the main forums there's very little activity for something so heavily supported by MS. I can't even find any games to download.

Personall, our group has been working with C# and DX over the past couple of months, waiting to hear back on what M$ will do with our ability to create binaries and distribution. Now that they are getting closer to their lic terms (deciding), our choice of XNA or just DX will become clear.

I think their intentions were to release the kit, let developers learn it, and then finalize everything later on (based on community reactions). This way when the final say in what can be done with what (and who) comes down the pipe, alot of companies have assets invested in XNA.

Matt Smith

#28

If you've been watching XNA for a while you would know of Benjamin Nitschke's racing game. The source has now been released:

http://www.xnaracinggame.com/

His blog is here:
http://exdream.no-ip.info/blog/