Domains - Will I get sued?

I now own these two domains:

www.proevolutionfighting.com
www.proevolutionfighters.com

What are the chances of the Pro Evolution Soccer Devs and owners kicking my ass because I registered these domains?

Surely they can't claim that I am infringing on their trademark, or can they?

info is appreciated. :)

I'd wager that "Pro Evolution" is a registered trademark, in which case yep, you've set yourself up for a whole heap of trouble.

If you don't have anything to do with soccer (football) then maybe you can win the case though.

Is there anyway to find out if "Pro Evolution" is a registered trademark?

There's "Pro Evolution" on the net with which is based on evolutionary theory etc.

There has to be a way to find out.

@dynaman

That's what I was thinking. It's a completetly different concept.

I don't want any problems though. I'll carry on as I'm going and if I'm told to cease and desist then I will.

It's a bit like when I registered the domain meyekrosoft.com and put some software I made on a site using that domain name. M$ were'nt happy.

If you need, you could say that your domains are "Proe velution" or "Prove lution", rather than "Pro Evolution".

except that I assume he'll have a logo plastered all over the site.

I don't expect it'll be an issue but who knows...just get on with it for now.

I quite like the name Prove Lution Fighting....

true... it is a nice name... I was just thinking that myself.

I've had a similair case recently, with my ragtag domain. I got a mail from Ragtag Inc. claiming that they owned the trademark to Ragtag. After a little googling I found out the following.

1. Ragtag is a word in the english language.
2. Words found in the dictionary can only be a trademark if you're in business doing something else. You can't run a bakery and trademark bakery. But you could for instance call your film studio The Bakery, and trademark that...because making films has nothing to do with baking.
3. You need to define in what line of business your trademark applies.
4. So in my case Ragtag Inc, the ones that mailed me, run a business selling biker themed sexy lingerie. :) In their trademark registration, it states that they are in the business of selling lingerie and clothes.
5. Since my use of ragtag has nothing to do with clothes, they can't do anything about it.

So I sent them a slightly pointed mail back explaining all this, and got a polite apology back. :)

That said....your case is different. It would be harder to argue that proevolution was a word in the english language. Thus they can claim trademark over it in a much wider use. Like Pepsi or Coca Cola. You can't make Pepsi cars, because Pepsi owns the trademark...even though they are not in the business of making cars.
Secondly, I assume you want to use those domains for something to do with games or gaming, which means you're in the same field as they are.

So if it came to court, I'm pretty sure you would loose this one. :) Of course, you can keep the domains, and hope they don't send you a cease and desist. And if they do, then just hand over the domains or take them down. I doubt they would make more trouble for you than that, if you choose not to fight them. :)

Cheers,

Ragnar (ragtag)

p.s. I'm not a lawyer, so take this all with a grain of salt.

Just stick a blog on how you are a "Pro Evolutionist", and not a "Pro Creationist". And then the only hasstle you will get is from the Pro Creationist. ANd you can then ask the Pro Evolution Soccer Devs to be co-defendents.
hahahahahahahaha

For the US, it's:
http://www.uspto.gov/ebc/index_tm.html

Doing a phrase search turned up:

	Serial Number 	Reg. Number 	Word Mark 			Check Status 	Live/Dead
1 	78560312 			PROEVOLUTION JAWZ 		TARR 		LIVE
2 	78887955 			PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER 		TARR 		LIVE
3 	76428036 			PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER THE ARCADE TARR 		DEAD
4 	75754387 			ISS PRO EVOLUTION 		TARR 		DEAD
5 	75751299 	2498870 	ISS PRO EVOLUTION 		TARR 		LIVE

So, yeah, there's a live trademark for it.

It's my (layman's) understanding that the main factor is whether a similar name could reasonably be considered as confusing to a customer. If you were marketing a line of carpet cleaning products or something, there'd likely be no problem. But anything to do with gaming? That's almost certainly a potential problem, because...

Pro Evolution Soccer's record states that its trademark covers: Video game software; video game programs; computer game programs; electronic game programs; cartridges and cassettes for use with hand-held video game machine; circuit boards containing game programs for use with hand-held video game machine; video output game machines; downloadable electronic game software, downloadable computer game software and downloadable video game software, Entertainment services, namely providing on-line computer games; providing temporary use of on-line non-downloadable software for use in operation of video, computer and electronic games; providing on-line computer database in the field of computer games; providing information to game players about the ranking of their scores of games through the web sites; providing information about computer games through the web sites; electronic games services provided by means of the Internet; game services provided by means of communications by computer terminals or mobile telephones; providing images, music and movies by means of communications by computer terminals or mobile telephones; providing information about game, music and movies by means of communications by computer terminals or mobile telephones

Thanks for the info.

I'll don't think I'll be using them or may get some more advice before hand.

I think it's all boiling down to me not being able to use them though.

Mitsubishi lawyers will be contacting you any time now....

I thought a trademark covered the whole name.

unless "pro evolution fighting" is directly trademarked then i think youre probably ok.

proevolution is not the same as pro evolution for a start.

Those trademarks listed by wendel do not have 'Pro Evolution' on its own trademarked anyway, and even if it did its not 'pro evolution fighting'.

Think of it like this if this was the case then mcdonalds would be suing everyone with the word Mc or Donnald in the title, or disney would be suing them in the first place because if donald duck!.
How about Harvey's furniture, Harvey's bristol cream, Harveys Electrical?
Ms Windows, Alpha Windows, WindowShine?


I wouldnt worry about it, they will probably first request you move out (if at all).

Form that reg info, wouldnt it have therefore been illeagal for anyone to sell any internet address with ProEvolution in its title. (Bareing in mind how many "Online" and "Download" bits are in the notice)?

'mikerowesoft' is still up for grabs.

i dont see why because the trademark is for "proevolution jawz" I dont really know to be honest but i would have thought it would be a stupid and unworkable system if it was like this, you may as well go and get a trademark on the words "takeaway" and make millions :)

Really and not 5 75751299 2498870 ISS PRO EVOLUTION TARR LIVE?

but "ISS PRO EVOLUTION" isnt "PRO EVOLUTION SOMETHINGELSE" or even "PRO EVOLUTION" itself.

As i say, im not sure but i dont think a trademark alows you to lay claim to every word or phrase in the english dictionary within that trademark.
That would be madness.


EDIT:
I dont think youe got anything to worry about:
http://www.proevolutionjawz.com/
http://www.proevolution.org/
http://www.proevolutionsoccer.com/

All different companies.

There appears to be a "pro evolution tools", a "pro evolution soccer", a "pro evolution search" engine "Evolution pro" bikes and even a "JOBO GIGA Vu PRO evolution" photo copier!!
Mabe they are all buisy suing each other in a big sue-fest, who knows in this crazy world :)

Amon, i say use the domains until someone 'requests' otherwise (because thats all they will likely do), and if they do either obey or seek some legal advice and fight it. Alternitively get there first and trademark that exact name yourself, then they cannot say a word.

So where's Pro Evolution Fighting then? All I see is a domain parking page.

"ProEvolution" is trademarked... NOT "ProEvolutionFighting"

so your fine.

they cant take you to court because the names are different.

If you registered something like ProEvolutionsucks then they may have some legal possability, given that your slandering their product name, but your domain names are not doing that so your fine.

Hell how many www.microsftsucks.com's are there, you dont see MS going after them. and they love their IP more than most people.

They can if they believe you're using the success of their brand to effect sales of your own. Or to look at it another way, if your game is crap and they believe they've suffered a loss of profits because of it, they can go after you for damages.

They would only have a case for this if the names were close enough to allow for confusion, given the names differ a lot and the term fighting or fighters does not in any way reffer to anything football. they dont have a case.

I do actually have some experience with this side of the law, my Uncle made some Bart Simpson's T-Shirts to sell for his business, he was of course then taken to court by the UK authority for Trading standards and the lawyer from the Simpson's, He successfully argued that Their Bart Simpson had 4 Spikes of hair, and his only had 3, this single Spike of hair was enough of a difference to force them to drop the case. he won.

As long as you can show a significant change in a name or trademark, they cant touch you.

Your domain names are different enough to keep you safe, and they cant go after you for loss of sales, because to do so would mean they would have to prove that a customer could by accident type fighting into their domain name.

The only times these cases have ever come to pass, was when domains like this were registered.

www.abay.com
www.bbay.com

Your in the clear m8 I really wouldn't worry about it at all.

OMG those links work hahahahahah

However, they can and do try, and defending against that takes time and money. I just came across this while browsing fark:

http://www.wsatoday.com/industry-news/industry-news/american-eagle-outfitters-sues-payless.html

"Clothing and footwear retailer American Eagle Outfitters, Inc. filed a lawsuit against Payless ShoeSource, Inc. over Payless' newest footwear collection, American Eagle. American Eagle Outfitters believes the similar name produces confusion for its consumers."

Presumably you're using the term 'pro evolution' in an attempt to trade off the name of the existing brand. So, morally, you shouldn't be using it, regardless if it's technically legal, or not. If moral issues don't bother you, then you're really asking if you can get away with it. Maybe you can; maybe you can't; I wouldn't know, TBH. I wouldn't bother risking it, frankly.

Im "Pro evolution", i beleive all life evolved from cosmic maths we do not understand and is constantly adapting. However, i prefer rugby and care little about football, so why should a football game be the only ones to use the term?
The case above with the clothing is different as they are directly posing as the original, selling blatant copys of the original product. In this, agreed, if it was a football game you were writing then worry, but its not so dont.

If this was the case then BRL would be in trouble too:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=blitz&meta=
With blitz exhaust pipes and some angry japanese tuners :)

@big10p, LOL, that means you're trading off the name 'Juicy' also a TM (likewise so is "juicy fruit" etc.) - Youre a bad bad person :P)

This really is nonsense.

Do you think I could pick a sport that Sega haven't covered and just use the 'Virtua' prefix? No, because that is 'passing off'; deliverately attempting to associate your product with someone elses brand. And it's illegal.

There may well be cases where it would be legitimate to use 'pro evolution' but not in the world of video games or any kind of sports product.

Are you a lawyer?

Don't tell people they're "in the clear" when you don't actually know, and are probably wrong anyway.

Amon - get some pro advice, as nobody here (or at least not many people) have any facts about this. Except maybe John Pickford. Who isn't a lawyer either, but probably knows enough about it.

I'd wager you're looking at the wrong end of (at best) a trademark dilution lawsuit.

Domain names are cheap, and it shouldn't be so hard to rename your game. So what's the big argument about?

These may help you Amon, they seem to cover the basics:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Trademark
http://www.marklaw.com/trademark-glossary/T-Z.htm#Trademark%20Act

After scan reading quickly, it appears, that trademark dilution is only applicable where direct product competition (and on a large scale) is in effect. Otherwise the company must own the exact name you are using to trade under.

As stated above, There is a "pro evolution tools", a "pro evolution soccer", a "pro evolution search" engine and even a "JOBO GIGA Vu PRO evolution" photo copier.

Also, what power does the US courts have over other countries anyway? (assuming you are not in the us) i know theres treaties between some countries, but do they cover dilution in this way?

I would like to see this answered in black and white too because i think its something that we would all find useful as either a guide / warning etc.

The answer is simple. Don't rip off other people. You can take that to the bank.

> I would like to see this answered in black and white too because i think its something that we would all find useful as either a guide / warning etc.

The unfortunate bit is that the answer is going to be grey.

Just look at Apple/Apple Corps

Heh, what about if he called it Evolution Pro Fighting?

Or would he be in trouble with that mountain bike firm?

Why would he want to do that?

If he's using the term 'pro evolution' to somehow indicate that his game is linked to an existing brand then he's being dishonest. Simple.

What legitimate reason is there to copy someone elses trademark?

Which is exactly what I was getting at. I have of course assumed that your game is not a football game given the fighting title.

And no I am not a lawyer, didn't claim to be either.

What I and every single other person in this thread have done is post their own personal opinion, this may be based on experience of this side of the law, or knowledge from further education, in my case what I posted is based on both, I through a family member have experience with being taken to court for trademark infringement, and I also had course material at university that covered it although not in as much detail as a lawyers course would have.

Even tho I have experience in this matter, I still do not claim to be any sort of expert, and I stress again that anything I and anyone else above have said are only their opinions from their own experience.

There is an easy solution to your problem, and its a solution I took about 4 years ago when I registered a website for a small company that had ASDA in the domain name, I contacted ASDA, and let them know about the domain and what its contents were and asked if they had any problems with it, the answer of course was no, they didn't really care.

If that was the intention then i agree, that is wrong.

Then again, could it have been an honest mistake? id honestly never heard of () 'pro evoluton soccer' until today :/
(or just never noticed it - unfortunately, footy games are not my thing)

Amon, maybe I'm crazy for suggesting this, but why don't you save yourself a load of hassle and pick a name that doesn't, you know, copy the registered brand name of a major, well known video game series?

Am I missing something here?

I think he already bought them.

M8 just mail pro evo let them know what you have and what your gona use it for. if they have a problem with it they will simply politely ask you to remove or change the name. or they will just say , hay its fine no problems.

No way. The Danish rockband Disneyland After Dark is probably a prime example of this. I'm sure hundreds more exist.

No, but most countries have their own trademark laws, similar to the US - here is a link to the Danish one.

Most laws are not as black and white as you would like them. That's why we have lawyers and judges. For instance (in the US) the first amendment means that "gripe sites" (like http://www.fordreallysucks.com and http://www.fuckverizon.com ) are allowed to use the respective trademarks under free speech provisions. However commercial use (like having banner ads on said sites) would eliminate any "free speech" protection.

Actually. Intent is a part of this. It would seem you INTEND to piggy back off the Pro Evolution Soccer trademark. That is your intent.

That is completely illegal and wrong.

People shouldn't go about covering their ass legally. They should just do what is right. And this is wrong.

interesting :/

Although it could it be that Disneyland isnt a 'real' word (or virtua for that matter). Otherwise there would be legal chaos if people could claim true word 'partial' names.

Right, my next prog is gonna be called : XYXC443.2235.1PPQuy! :)

I agree though, in this case it is probably morally wrong, im just interested if it can be done, because it could happen to any of us without realizing.

not if you are careful.. and do research before hand...

Heheh, some people will just do anything for some attention.

I've not seen Amon finish a game, or even his own website
http://www.kamikazekrow.com/ which every time I check seems to be permanently on maintanence.

I don't think the original creators of Pro Evolution have anything to worry about really. Besides, why would anyone go to an "eveltuion" spelt site?

nvm

Thanks for all the replies fellas. I've decided against doing anything with these domains.

I just thought that if there was a "Pro Evolution Evolution" for evolutionists then I could have a Pro Evolution Fighting.

Oh Well! Thanks for all the info though.



Yes, you are correct. I haven't finished any games.

It stays in maintanence until it's finished or else I would have to settle for a website that looks like yours.



EH!

im with GFK on this one, I would consult a legal adviser before using something with Pro Evolution in the title. Even if it wasnt intended seeing something on the shelf or on the net with Pro Evolution in it it may be implied and assumed to be related.

This in itself would be seen as a possible loss of revenue if they intended to make a fighting game and they may ask you to vacate the website (it may be seen as cybersquatting which could be illegal depending on the country you are in).

If you want some ideas how about Pro Devolution Fighting? I am sure they would not be able to complain about that and it might even make a good game.

Or even better how about Pro Lotion Anime Wrestling? Don't think anyone has done that yet. Your website will likely get many thousands of hits. The beauty of it is you do not even have to release an actual game. You could rake in advertising revenue from suitably related sites. Just post the odd "screenshot" now and again. The odder the better. Write a development diary detailing the remarkable LoveDoll physics and realistic coefficient of friction calculations you are incorporating to achieve the ultimate in slippery fun.

>Pro Devolution Fighting

Clearly intended to sound like Pro Evolution. There's no way around this; you can't tweak someone else's trademark a bit then use it for your own business. So long as you are trading off someone elses reputation then you are passing off.

<quote>
I would have to settle for a website that looks like yours.
</quote>

Heheh, my website is meant to look bad on purpose, that's the whole point. Plus it only takes me 90 seconds to put new stuff on and it is always in a state of finished.

<quote>
EH!
</quote>

Read your very first post, do you even check what you're typing? I really hope that you have signed up for a website of that spelling :)

So John, if I created a tomigotchi style game, where you make humans do the house work with no clothes on,and call it 'Naked Chore', does that mean I cannot use the term 'Naked Chore', simply because it sounds like your game?

I'm a bit confused about that really, because 'Naked Housework' doesnt have the same ring to it, as an example.

Dabz

Dabz - Best cancel that Naked Phwoar domain you've just registered as well.

Dabz,

Yes that's correct. If you are trading of my trademark you are going to get sued - and lose.

Just like I can't make a game called Chronic the SledgeDog or whatever.

There maybe some legitimate leeway if your product is a parody.

I really think you should tho' - that definitely sounds like a game I would buy. Twice. At least. :o>

Thanks John! :)

Just wondering that's all, and no, I'm not making a rude version of tomigotchi! ;)



:D

Dabz

.
I got nothing 2 do @ work so have been reading.

Looks like everyone is right and wrong, depending on your point of view:

http://www.ladas.com/BULLETINS/1996/FederalDilution.html

Mabe, mabe not for pro evolution as they are two real words and not as 'distinctive as say.. disney.This doesnt look good for Amon.Nor does thisOr thisNot good either.Bad again.This could be an argument as there are loads of Pro Evolution somethings, but not for games. Pro evolution itself isnt registered as a mark so may be favorable.

John, it appears you are right about a similar game called 'naked chore' but i think if i wanted to make a strip poker game for example called 'naked poker' you wouldnt have a case because of the difference in market/product. Thats how i understand what i've read anyway.

Very Very Complicated :/

I'm confused. I'm always confused. :)

Like I said earlier I won't be using the domains. I'll just let them expire.

What I'm really worried about now is that I have made a game called Hawkeyes. It's a platformer like the C64 Hawkeye game.

This is a no go then, right?

Judging by what ive been reading today i would say change it, save the bother.
If you changed it significantly you should be ok.
ie:
"pro Revolution" may be ok because evolution and revolution are two separate words meaning completely different things. The game content is totaly removed from football and no judge would see your indie fighting game as unfair competition or even relatable to this wildly poular soccer game.

but "pro evolution" after reading the above (the link i posted up a bit) id say mabe not. When i originally posted i did not realise this pro-evolution name was so big (which is a primary factor in them having a case)

Why worry? Just change the name to something original.

I will. It's just that so many cool game names were taken during the C64 era. There'#s hardly anything left that sounds cool.

EagleEye? Hawk Eyes? Hawk? Doolaly?

Those have probably expired by now, and has anyone minded in the past. Think about how many games over the years has been called 'virus' or had 'invaders' in the title.

> Yes, you are correct. I haven't finished any games.

> What I'm really worried about now is that I have
> made a game called Hawkeyes.

Dude, you've finished this game since yesterday? Well done!

Don't you do anything else apart from TROLL threads?

You really shouldn't be allowed to get away with your constant baiting of members. Others don't get away with it so I don't see why you should.

I wish there was an ignore member button that I could press.


TROLL!

Except from "Virus" (or rather "Zeewolf 0") and Space Invaders, I can't really think of any.

Now Ninja on the other hand...

So would it be safe to use the name Hawkeye for my game?

How do you know if stuff like this has expired? What about the Dizzy name ie. Magic Land Dizzy ect.. If that expired could i use it?

Amon, Amon, listen: a little bit of originality goes a long way. You really should consider not blatantly ripping off the name of other games. It's a recipe for disaster.

Lol. I know. I'm just trying to find good names for my games in dev. Like I said alot of the good names were taken.

It's a shame that they can never be used again.

OK, I'll quit with the name thieving. :)

And move on to cars? ;)

No. Codemasters are still around and protecting their "Dizzy" brand name aggressively, even tho' it's technically expired (when was the last time you saw a Dizzy game from Codemasters).

In either case, if you want to rip off someone else, you'd better be prepared to be dragged into court, and if they happen to have more money than you (or are borderline bankrupt - like Interplay for instance), be prepared to lose.

Wasnt Zewolf a helicopter game on the amiga?

Theres:
-Virus by david braben (of elite fame), (this was a cool game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_(computer_game)
-Virus and Virus2 (a kind of shareware puzzler): http://www.arcadetown.com/virus2/index.asp
-Virus a modern looking FPS thingy : http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/virusthegame/index.html
For a start.

then theres:
Space invaders, super space invaders, spectrum invaders, Psion invaders, Chicken invaders, Space invader typing trainer, hyperspace invaders....

How did they get away with it?

Based on the screenshots ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/virus_/screenshots ), it doesn't look like the original Virus was trademarked (no TM or ® on the name).

Japanese companies (like Space Invaders' Taito) apparently haven't been big on enforcing their trademarks or copyrights in the past: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061024/andersen_01.shtml

You can have a trademark without registering it.

Yes, and it absolutely rocked! It was for all intents and purposes the spiritual successor to Virus (the Braben one) - and was a fair bit easier to control as well.