Team Projects

I realize that many of you here make games for a living, or at least a serious hobby. That said, I have a question to ask. How many of you, if any, would be willing to work with a teenager on a game-related project? Why or why not?

It seems to me that as soon as many adults hear that someone is young, their entire attitude towards that individual changes. I know that in many cases I have been treated as an adult... until my age was revealed, upon which I was looked down on regardless of skill level or knowledge.

All feedback and speculation is welcome.

Personally I would have no issues working with somebody 18+

Anyone younger than that I would have an issue on the basis of legalities (contracts etc) also it could look dodgy with someone my age being in regular communication with young boys/girls. I don't think the person's parents would be comfortable with that situation either.

If they where living in Denmark 15+, otherwise 18+ for the reasons Rob mentioned. Generally tho' I would probably have a tendency (if I had a choice) to work with more experienced developers, who understands and has experience with at least some of the paradigms and methodologies we use. Being competent in your field is also a big plus.

When I hopped into the PC demoscene, one or two -brilliant- coders were 17 or so. Very skilled in asm, systemcode etc. It's a bit hard to draw a line between competent ages. In this particular case the coder originated from the older 8bit systems, and many asm-coders I know started asm around age 12..14. For those systems it was logical that you'd learn asm anyway as there was no CPU cycle to waste on Pascal, C or BASIC.

Perhaps straight programming skills aren't bad @ 15..18. It does depend a bit on what they code however. A classic demo is just a small routine, but could they do an advanced RPG game as well in that age? Can young people stay focused on something for a longer while (such as gamedev), or is their attention drawn away with the first new thing that comes by? Can one have deep discussions with a youngster, or would one get the experience of talking to a stubborn brat? Can they think and design ahead, or only in the 'now'? Can they think from the pov of a customer, or only from their own pov?

Some important things related to code aren't actual coding, question is how age is important to all that related stuff.

Age does not matter.

Its all about how you code, and how you conduct yourself on the net and with others, if your a nice guy, and treat others with respect, and understand that other people may know better, then you should be fine.

Do not let age get in your way.

I myself have been in your position, of being young, and having no one take me serious, so I know what your going through.

Nolan wrote me a great tutorial for my framework. I had no idea he was a teenager.

From my point of view, I was a great techie programmer as a teenager but never finished anything. Then after years in business I got some decent self-management techniques sorted and can finish stuff properly. If I was to work with a younger person, I'd want to see evidence of some ability to be organised and finished things as this is more important than the coding skills when working in a team. You can have a great coder but if they don't finish anything or it's full of bugs that's no good.

Age and experience was a problem for me (as in, nobody would have wanted to work with me..) I'm 23 now, and it's no longer an issue.

Ha ha ha... I never finished anything except for three games when I was younger, but now have found the ability to stick to a project through to completion.

I think when I was younger, I was focused on doing something that was to be the latest and greatest; now I focus on delivering what there is a demand for - i.e. a shift in focus from being creatively oriented to business oriented (but that's not to say that I'm no longer creative with my work).

Like I mighta said before, I'm really not picky in joining teams. I wouldn't mind if you're a teenager. I'd just be glad to be useful for once. :)

@Rob and Flameduck:
I never really thought about legal issues or what parents would think. I can see how that could create problems, though.

@CS_TBL:
All of those questions would have a different answer for different people. I hardly think all young people are the same. As for coding an advanced RPG... can many adults even do that?

@Yavin and Cygnus:
Glad to know that I'm not the only one experiencing problems due to age, and it's reassuring to know that it doesn't last.

@Grey Alien:
Good points, all very valid. Just out of curiousity, when did you start programming?

Guys:



This is a good point to remember.

We have had two previous coders join the team to code our wrapper for Max. Antony did some impressive stuff but got bored and dropped the engine, dropping us in the crap (without a complete engine to work with). Chris C countered this with another cool wrapper and got him in but due to lack of support he also dropped the engine.

So we were held back several times (over the last 12 months no less!) due to these problems.

Our current coder both plans ahead, disciplines herself, and codes very well. And we're cooking something up for you guys too.

As for coding an advanced RPG... can many adults even do that? 

The problem with many ppl -including me- is that they'd like to play that game *now*. Many ppl don't have the patience to decently build-up their code core and start rushing things. While I'm not counting out youngsters as a strict rule, I do think they're so active in still discovering everything that having patience *might* be a problem for 'em (not to mention school, friends, going out etc.). But that's only a rough estimation.
Anyway, given time and lots and LOTS of patience, I think everyone can do at least a classic/retro RPG. The problem here is whether one does things alone or in a team of gfx'ians and ppl who deliver media 'n things in a suitable format. I for one am on my own here (I don't have a puki-collection of media here :P), and while I'm not really a graphician as some others here are, I can manage to do some pixels when I create my own tools for it. For all the things I can do only a bit, I need to create additional tools. That's not really a problem when you're in a team, and the gfx'ian just uses Photoshop or so.

See this thread ;-) http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=68994

bascially when I was 8, I'm 32 now and have never stopped. Perhaps I'll have a 25th anniversary next year :-)

Ah, not sure how I missed that thread... interesting though. 8 is pretty early to start coding.

CS_TBL: I see what you mean about "youngsters" and patience, and I agree that many teenagers are very impatient. However, although young people may have school and friends to deal with, those are hardly taxing in comparison to having a family or full-time job.

Also 8 as well, 30 now, I actually feel really proud to have been around for the Birth of what was arguably the start of the home computer and console revolution.

First Computer : CPC 464
First Console : Atari 2600

There is no way I would work with anyone less than 18 year old, regardless of their talent and knowledge. Skills and knowledge are only a few of the skills that an ideal team player needs. Emotional maturity is just as important, if not more so.

I would probably have misgivings about working with anyone between the ages of eighteen and twenty one too, actually. They'd need to be unusually mature for their age. Most people in their late teens/early twenties tend to be pretty immature and naive; in fact, I reckon that there is very little mental/emotional difference between a sixteen year old and, say, an eighteen to twenty one year old.

EDIT: Of course there's a big difference between working with someone and working for someone. If a teen had enough money to buy my services then I'd have no qualms about working for them, regardless of their age. They'd have to pay me regularly though - none of that share of the profits or payment at the end of the project nonsense.

Not all teens are emotionally immature. It seems odd to automatically reject teenagers based on a common and often false stereotype.

..I like to pamper teens..its good..

Not all teens are emotionally immature? Of course they are. It's a biological/psychological fact; part of the natural development of the psyche.

Of course most teenagers object to any suggestion that they are anything less than adult - cue angsty teens screaming "I HATE you! I am NOT a child! Why won't you LEAVE me ALONE!"

;)

"When I was sixteen, my father was the most ignorant man in the world. By the time I reached 21, I was surprised at how much he had learned in five years." - Mark Twain.

> Not all teens are emotionally immature. It seems odd to automatically reject teenagers based on a common and often false stereotype.

The problem is that 99.9% of adults know they were emotionally immature as teenagers...

Perhaps I'm not understanding you very well, JustLuke. How would you define "emotionally immature"?

just to put my 2 cents in, I started programming around 6 and I'm 27 now. Not a lot has changed maturity wise since then. :S

I'd work with anyone 15+ if it wasn't that serious. If it was for money they would have to be 18+ and emotionally mature.

mature = "fully developed"
emotionally mature = "having the sense of responsibility of an adult"

You can't be mature as a teenager but you can be emotionally mature!

difference experiences (and maybe genetics) can make some teenagers wiser for their years for sure, and more focused.

Ah, yes... because we all know how mature and responsible adults are ;)

Nice to see this has stayed nice and focused and not sinking into a young vs old thread.

People have given their reasons why they would or wouldn't work with younger people, is there really a need to argue?

If you feel hard done by because of people's views that's just tough. I don't like the fact that women can get cheaper car insurance, but they can.

Accept and move on... and ironcially... grow up.

Heh, good advice I suppose... thank you for your feedback, everyone.

Sure, but then they get charged more at the mechanics. Swings and roundabouts I guess.