MMORPG's

Which are you playing, and is it better than world of warcraft and if so why ?

I'm really bored of that game now its expansion didn't add anything new at all and was a complete let down. so looking to cure my hunger for mmo's with something else.

Don't bother with them, is my blunt advice.

I quit WoW almost two months ago. When I left I had gotten to about level 64/65 - I can't remember exactly. All I remember is seeing others on the server, people I considered fairly sane individuals, caning it along to level 70, sure of their commitment to raiding for months on end ever more. A big reality check hit home - if you've experienced this, it's your cue to escape.

Since leaving I've used the time to code, learn and release stuff. My performance at work has improved and I feel more positive about everything, especially use of my free time. I want to die feeling I've achieved something? Whether it's fame, recognition amongst friends, a good deed for a charity - how on earth would a MMORPG help any of that.

I wouldn't say playing, but I have a subscription to City of Heroes / Villains. Whether it's better than or worse than WoW largely depends on personal preference.

If anything CoH/CoV isn't as big a timesink / moneysink as WoW.

I'm dying to try Lord of the Rings Online. It's beta testing right now but it'll be released towards the end of April...

If they made it for Wii I would definetly buy it (and a life time membership) ;)

http://lotro.turbine.com/

I played the beta version of LOTR online, I tended to ignore everyone else and do the missions like they were SP though.

Apparently it's a lot like WOW. I'm not a big fan of MP games, MMORPG's are worse than most, but I didn't mind LOTR. Better than the other one I played "Savage" or something it was called.

What we need is a GTA FPS RTS MMORPG.

Hmm... out of interest, who wants to team up and actually make one? I have a friend and a dog who can do the graphics.

If you want a real MMO game, download a client and check out topmudsites.com. I highly recommend Achaea because it is not a mindless dungeon slog, but we all have different tastes.
Those sorts tend not to infect too much time and they inspire a lot more imagination / head use. (They even kind of help to get the creative juices going).

I agree, WOW is ridiculous.
The fact that the expansion to WOW is so quickly sold out sort of demonstrates this quite well.


The new process of WOW:

-Buy the game ($45)

-Play the game every day for 10 months until you reach the covetted level 60.

-Realize how it doesn't matter either in the game world or in the real world.

-Then learn ($15 x 10 months later; do the math) that Blizard is putting out an expansion, thus rendering your precious level 60 (which you have been frantically showing off lately with the false hope that your last 10 months of work might actually pay off) completely useless; level 60 will soon be nothing when players at level 70 come along!

-Unable to buy said WOW expansion on day one, you decide that maybe it is possible to still succeed without spending money. ("Pff... What loser spends extra money just to do better at a computer game?"). A day of wandering WOW later, you see that everyone in the world has already found some weird phantom treasure chest, but you aren't aloud to talk to the guy to trigger looking for it!
What kind of black magic is this?!

-Well, that's easily fixed. A week later, buy the WOW expansion.

-Play WOW. Hm... The curse has been lifted and now I am able to take those secret quests.

-Reach level 70.

-Be at the top of the heap again, along with 6000000 other people who for some reason have the same "story" to tell as you. (Pff, posers. Everyone should know: You're the only one!).


My opinion is that MMORPGs are over-rated. All of them.
They are not in any way individual experiences; they feel more like solo games than single player RPGs.
Why do I say this? Sure, you can "quest" with other players, but these "quests" lack any after-effects. You as a player lack any impact, and the world that you are in lacks any logic.
(Hm... there's one farmer, maybe 5 guards, and about 6 million heavily armed "adventurers" who seem to serve no purpose except to do the same task for that same farmer Every Single Day).

If it was a truly persistent multi-player experience, as they all claim to be, then wouldn't a player be able to change something? Shouldn't the game have an element to prevent it being an unchangeable, rigid, over-scripted movie game?

In WOW, that definitely does not happen. Actually, for that matter, nothing happens. A quest consists of finding an object that 7 million other people have already found, and giving that object to a person who has already been given that object 7 million times before.
Telling someone about one's experience in finding that object always consists of the same answer: "Oh, yah, that was a funny quest. I did that one today too! The object looked weird". The end.

Persistent? No. You picked that object up and it reappeared as soon as you left. As you were leaving, you saw another guy go in and come out with the same thing. It's a bit like a giant line-up to level 60. (Or, rather, 70). The kind that seems like it will be quick, then gets slower and slower at the end and keeps getting interrupted by hooligans who budge in front.
Player-driven? No. Again, you have changed nothing. You gave the big egg to the NPC farmer guy, and then you went on to do something else.
Follow-through? Anything happening as a result of your doing that quest? Unless you are very lucky... Nope.
Unique experience for everyone? Okay, you could have not done that quest, or you could have done it. Does anything change? No: The world of WOW is stagnant. No gate opens, no NPC disappears, no revelations happen as a result of a player's actions. If anything changes in WOW, it is because the developers said that it would happen on a particular date after a month of planning. (Either that, or you have changed a very small thing indeed).

Sure, that's no reason for why WOW is not a decent game; they seem to do very well at hiding the sad truth, just like a linear first-person shooter such as Half-Life. But the point is: Why spend $15 a month to play WOW when you can simply spend a single lump sum to play a good RPG that doesn't have a monthly fee and which gives players a reasonably unique experience -- or at least an experience that makes some attempt to seem unique?
WOW is stagnant, but a single-player RPG is not.
In a single-player RPG, entire cities can fall to the ground and emperors can turn evil as a result of your actions. It is all the doing of you, the player. You do not have 7449198 clones running around doing the exact same thing as you. Your character changed the universe, and thus actually produced a storyline and maybe even an activity aside from "find that thing for me, will you?".
After all, it's not an assembly line as WOW so strongly aligns itself; it is a role-playing game.
Something happens. It is quite interesting when something happens.

"But it's not massive multiplayer!", I hear? Actually, it can be just as massively multiplayer as WOW. Open up a message board or a chat room for whatever RPG you happen to be playing, and you probably won't notice a difference. ("Oh yah, I did that quest! | Haha, me too! | ur still doing that You noob!").


Wow, that went on longer than it was meant to.
Anyway, I am quite curious about Cyan's latest doings with Uru: Ages Beyond Myst. It seems that they aim to create an actually player-driven MMO world, where instead of NPCs doing everything they have actual humans (actors and the like) give information to players and simply hope that the news spreads. (Rather than NPCs delivering information unceasingly, there are actual players trying to spread it).
I'm unsure how exactly it works, but they certainly seem to be breaking the mold, which is a very good thing. I hope to see it more closely some day...

(No, I did not just write that; I copied and pasted from my ramblings on the topic many months ago following an infuriating duel with a newly WOW-playing South Park watcher. I have yet to see how that episode inspired so many people to buy WOW).

I beta tested LOTR before I went anti-MMO. I wasn't impressed with it at all. They're all the same. A complete waste of time.

/salute

I've been playing alot of Diablo II for the past couple of months. I got bored of it a few weeks ago and decided to try out something else, and found Dragon Fable. Played it for a while, but there was something I didn't like about it, but couldn't figure out what it was.

I later realized, that Dragon Fable was based entirely around completing quests. Okay, so some people like playing quests, but that's not what I like about Diablo II. Diablo II is fun to me because I can collect runes, and (in some ways) build weapons. But I wanted to see something about building your character. Something that let you create and manage teams. Something that let you fight monsters in more than just a handful of possible strategies.

Right now I'm working on a sort of role-playing game, but don't think I can incorporate all these ideas. It will be a space-invaders type game, where you collect parts to weapons before you can build enough of a weapon to use it. So far the code has gotten complicated, and I'll have to see how things go with it.

Been playing Final Fantasy XI over 3 years now. ;/

As to whether or not it is better than WoW, all depends on the time-sink factor, since FFXI is based upon the old-school MMORPG setup where you spend ages grinding XP to gain levels, which is the majority of the crap you'll be doing until you hit the level-cap, where all the fun begins.....if you have a linkshell (re: Guild).


Need to reactive me my WoW account sometime, free trial ran out when I hit lvl30 Warlock, it's fun to play in short bursts when waiting on events to happen in FFXI.
(shame that WoWs an extremely easy MMO just to make it more accessible to all those damned 8yo kids I've come across that make you want to rip your hair out)

This is why I liked UO. Sure, there were people all over getting 7 GM characters.. but I was perfectly content with my stripper/begger/musician named Tika. I had my own player story.. I tried EQ around the same time and didn't like how it was essentially an endless battle with pointless monsters to get hides and junk. While you certainly can do that in UO, you can also not do that.

there really needs to be more MMOs based on UO and not on EQ and Wow

For those who think they're all a waste of time (and for Picklesworth, who is a fan of advanced MUDS :)) do me a favor and promise me you'll try my MUD/MMO hybrid.

I'm aiming much more for a dynamic world where the focus is on impacting the world rather than massive character improvement. I've said it before and I'll say it again, any MMO with an "end-game" is a truly flawed design.

It'll be primarily text based, which while that may be a disadvantageous in some regards, makes the project feasible for an indie project.

I'd say more but the devil is in the details and I don't want to say too much too soon. That, and I've got to run to work right now.

I'm still waiting for a heroic revival of text MOGs, with servers that don't use bloody telnet but instead have their own, superior protocol. (It would be really nice if stuff like the inventory list was accessible in a separate window via a client, for example).
If such a MOG protocol existed that let clients manage what has to do with what, the possibilities could be boundless: What if a really adventurous, futuristic client could pull apart descriptions and build graphical scenes with them? (No actual pretty graphics because that would need magic, but for example a box on the left that says Hills, one on the right that says "Butterfly!", etc.). It would make interaction easy for the lazy as well as make it a tad more accessible to the illiterates.

Achaea also isn't close to the perfect multi-user game. There is still the continuing problem, for example, that if another player kills a really critically important NPC, that NPC must reappear a while later or the game will stop working very quickly. Achaea at least lets people kill those NPCs, but I don't see an explanation for the reappearing stuff; they just reappear eventually and that is how people see it. It unfortunately is one of the few elements of the game that everyone discusses 'technically'. Those NPCs should be revived, magically if need by, perhaps by the gods, in a visible (but not too loud) manner. Their reappearance should be visible as well, also in a way that makes it clear: They have been reawakened by the gods because they are important; they have not been merely respawned.


I will watch for your game, Soul Sculpture! :)

Picklesworth - that's one of the things I'm planning to address with my game. I'll be writing my own client to offer superior information representation to players. For instance, you could "Look" at someone and a window or panel will show up with a silhouette of their character race and then little pointers to the various body locations to show what they are wearing.

I've got a lot of other little improvements planned, along with some designs that are radically different than anything in any MUD or MMO out there (I don't want to say "better" per se, but instead aimed at a different demographic of gamers. I'm not going to cater to watered down gameplay and simplistic mechanics just for the sake of drawing a crowd. Granted, the MUD demographic is generally quite a bit different than the average MMORPG demographic, so I suppose I could say I'm looking to interest the MUD people with some fresh gameplay :).

Now it just comes down to getting it all implemented :).

I forgot to mention that I've never played Achaea, but looking over the website and some of the game design leads me to think it is something quite interesting.

Is the primary focus of that game just combat + leveling....in other words, is the game primarily achiever oriented?

My main stomping ground was Gemstone 3 by Simutronics. A good and immersive game, although in the end, despite having played it for years, the gameplay itself is a bit shallow. Combat is the only way to improve and the combat mechanics aren't nearly deep enough to be interesting for years and years. The best aspect of the game was the relatively strong RP community it used to have - I don't know how it is anymore. Some of the most fun I had was inventing some custom dice games using a pair of dice I had bought in-game and then hosting dice games with other players. Of course, I rigged the rules of the game so the house (me :P) had about a 70% chance to win, but the rules were complicated enough and crafted in such a way that it looked as though the odds were in favor of the player. Needless to say, I ended up making a lot of cash that way!

Iv played a lot of MMO's, I tend not to play them for the grind as I am sure all will agree thats boring as hell, instead I play for the community I tend to make a guild and then recruit and make friends.

Most of my MMO fun comes from the people I am playing with so its not a solo play style for me.

Have to admit tho, world of warcraft killed blitz for me, I'v hardly even looked at code since I started playing it, apart from checking back here every now and then for updates etc.

I really do think that WOW is almost dead for me, unless something changes, and if I dont find something else I will back to developing blitz projects full time. which I must say sounds good about now.

I will miss that community feel tho

It was kinda hard for me to leave EQ. Best decision I ever made though. I'm back to coding and I'm even looking into buying a quadplex and renting out the units. Then buying another, and another...

Either through games or real estate; I'm not working when I retire in 4 years. And if I do have to work, it's not going to be very hard (in a physical exertive sense that is!) :)

Moderation in all things is the key. I have played Everquest and Everquest 2 for many years and limit my play time so that I can do all the other things that real life has to offer.

As for paying a subscription to play.. well I have pissed more money up against a wall than I have spent on Everquest :)

I have done the clubbing thing, the dating thing... The married thing.. the daddy thing... the carreer thing now I am doing the retired thing and having lots of fun staying in bed late and being answerable to no one..

In the end all comes down to a little of what yoo fancy and moderation, do what yoo like (as long as yoo dont hurt anyone) and live yer own life to the full.

I hate Football, I can't understand what the 'Great Unwashed' sees in the game, but I do understand that lots of peeps Do spend a lot of their time and money supporting their favourite team. :D

Cheers

Garion
Scary Hairy Scottish Elf :O

A couple friends play MMOs and after hearing them talk about it I knew it would never be for me.

I did try WWII online for awhile, and may do so again but I have not been in any rush.

I do play a LOT of Day of Defeat though.

Hello.

I've been playing on BlitzBasic.com for a few years now - sometimes you'd think the other players were real. But mostly not.

Goodbye.

lol @ SoggyP

Sculptor's game sounds rather interesting. I'd honestly like to see a game that is more about community building and not becoming the most powerful player in the world. People could build houses, store their gear in them, and even build protections for it. It would be neat to become a blacksmith and build weapons for the friends in your own town. You could then buy special parts from travelers that you'd use to fabricate your weapons with, and sell your finished weapons to the highest bidder.

Then, rather than fighting hordes of randomly-spawned enemies, you fight to defend your city and over-take other groups. Instead of everyone being a fighter, though, the whole community helps each other out in taking care of the community. You can even kick people out, invite them in, build whole new communities. I think it would certainly make an interesting game.

The trouble is, I don't think everyone wants to be a blacksmith, or gardener, logger, or whatever other tasks are needed. So... I dunno.