I was just perusing the Scholastic Click sheet that teacher's get to pass out to students and noticed that Platypus is now available for PSP. Gave me a little kick to see, pretty cool where you see Blitz games end up these days.
Platypus for PSP!
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Platypus for PSP! it's a shame that platypus is a rip off. I believe antony got talking to the authors of the PSP version who were a bit disappointed when they heard his story and tried to get his name in the credits. Not sure what came of that.
It was in the indie gamers or gamedev forums.
It was in the indie gamers or gamedev forums.
Man I would be soo mad at that... Hope he gets something in return..
Would also still be really pleased with myself that something I did was on a next gen hand held.
Would also still be really pleased with myself that something I did was on a next gen hand held.
That's why you've got to be very careful before you sell out your IP.
Let's not have this conversation again. :)
See Sledge's post.
See Sledge's post.
Would also still be really pleased with myself that something I did was on a next gen hand held.
Except it's not really something he did, is it? Except it's not really something he did, is it?
As I understand it, as I read from Ant in that other thread, he did all the work, Idigicon changed a few lines, and then game the work to the PSP developer, Idigicon then took credit for Ants work.
The PSP version has all of the original work on it, so thats Ant;s hard worked modeling with clay and a camera, all his music and sound. its his work man. he did it, all they did was port the code to c# or what ever the psp is using.
The man should be proud and pissed at the same time.
I'm with Yavin on this one. And Big10p. This convo has been had before.
The graphics and sounds are not his anymore. He signed those rights over to Idigicon. Did he get a fair deal? No. Did he make Platypus for the PSP? No.
Idigicon will always suck, people will never understand it until they get infected with the 'gay' that indigicon spreads....
Regardless of what the deal was, and who was screwed on what, not mentioning the original author in the credits is just an un-ethical move. With indigicon, its just a 'day at the office'!
Regardless of what the deal was, and who was screwed on what, not mentioning the original author in the credits is just an un-ethical move. With indigicon, its just a 'day at the office'!
Ant was not "Ripped off", thats what the deal was, and he took it. Maybe he shouldnt have, and maybe he wouldnt take that sort of deal now. But when it comes down to it, if thats the deal you sign, thats the deal you sign.
However he should have been named in the credits.
(Seperate: And the way ingicon held Cobra back was stupid)
However he should have been named in the credits.
(Seperate: And the way ingicon held Cobra back was stupid)
Alot of people here have problems with Idigicon. I worked with a developer who gave me 25% of his earnings for what was originally a months work, and they stretched it out for 6 months or so.
I got £100 for that work...
I got £100 for that work...
Oh, weel, looks like we ARE going to have this conversation again. :P
I think it says somewhere in that other thread that Anthony got a credit in the instruction booklet, but not in the actual game.
I think it says somewhere in that other thread that Anthony got a credit in the instruction booklet, but not in the actual game.
Had Anthony kept his IP this might not have happened though. Who knows if he could have leveraged the game the way Idigicon did. Bottomline, I don't think he cares too much about the money as for the fact that they didn't credit him for the original art and design. They are still using all of his enemy scripts in addition to his graphics. From the deal he signed he doesn't get any money but a mention of his name in the credits would've been cool.
What good is being mentioned in the credits for a Video game? Show me the money!
Credit is more important, money is nice but a list of contributions showing what you did with your time on Earth will ultimately be how people view your life. He was out of the money the moment he signed the game away and he knew that. However, I don't think he ever wanted to lose credit for the creative process he traversed to make that game a reality in the first place.
I'm not sure whether or not to be happy or sad for the guy..
The graphics and sounds are not his anymore. He signed those rights over to Idigicon. Did he get a fair deal? No. Did he make Platypus for the PSP? No.
The fact that he gave away his rights does not mean that he did not create them, he did, and they are using them. thus they are using stuff he made on a PSP.
Either way, Ant, if you read this man, what happend to your wee farmer game, Iv not seen anything of it for a long long time. I hope you got it finished and published.
a list of contributions showing what you did with your time on Earth will ultimately be how people view your life.
No. Without wealth and fame, nobody is even going to care about what you did with your life.Who invented Windows?
If you said Bill Gates or Steve Jobs - you just proved my point.
If you said Alan Kay or Ivan Sutherland - you're in a minority.
I hope you got it finished and published.
Last I heard (about 6 months ago) he was still working on it. I was always more interested in the work Sutherland supposedly did for the NSA.
I would say the true birth of windows was not from either of them, as its origins can be traced back to more than just one man, a lot of people all over the world were all working on similar projects at the same time. they all contributed to what we now call a user interface..
The first True windows I would say came about from the real inventors of the mouse ;) it was only then that we could truelly call it a UI. but that's just my opinion so
I would say the true birth of windows was not from either of them, as its origins can be traced back to more than just one man, a lot of people all over the world were all working on similar projects at the same time. they all contributed to what we now call a user interface..
The first True windows I would say came about from the real inventors of the mouse ;) it was only then that we could truelly call it a UI. but that's just my opinion so
The mouse was just a cheap alternative to the much more expensive lightpen. It was invented out of necessity, rather than anything else.
Please don't confuse antony with Anthony Flack. Two entirely different people.
Please don't confuse antony with Anthony Flack. Two entirely different people.
I don't think anyone was, were they? :) a few questions:
1] i take it someone signed their work away without thought?
2] i also take it that he was paid a larger sum than if he kept his ip?
3] can i also take it that this was his "first" commercial game?
4] and i also take it that idigicon are a publishing firm?
5] as well as platypus being one of the best games to come out of the independant programming scene?
if all the answers to the questions above is yes,then that is a crappy situation to be in.the only thing the programmer can be blamed for is being naive,as in,he has never been in that position before,saw the money,signed and now regrets it.
idigicon on the other hand are a publisher,they are a business,they saw something and tried to nail the product in stone.publishers tend to be like any other money grabbing company,they pretend to be your friend,reel you in and then crap all over you when they have what they want. same old ame IMO
If any good has come out this,its the fact that the whole community knows that when it comes to the time of signing sheets of paper,its best to be as openeyed as possible,and definitly read the small print.
p.s. on another note,if i did create something in blitzmax,i take it ive got to steer well clear of idgicon then :-]
1] i take it someone signed their work away without thought?
2] i also take it that he was paid a larger sum than if he kept his ip?
3] can i also take it that this was his "first" commercial game?
4] and i also take it that idigicon are a publishing firm?
5] as well as platypus being one of the best games to come out of the independant programming scene?
if all the answers to the questions above is yes,then that is a crappy situation to be in.the only thing the programmer can be blamed for is being naive,as in,he has never been in that position before,saw the money,signed and now regrets it.
idigicon on the other hand are a publisher,they are a business,they saw something and tried to nail the product in stone.publishers tend to be like any other money grabbing company,they pretend to be your friend,reel you in and then crap all over you when they have what they want. same old ame IMO
If any good has come out this,its the fact that the whole community knows that when it comes to the time of signing sheets of paper,its best to be as openeyed as possible,and definitly read the small print.
p.s. on another note,if i did create something in blitzmax,i take it ive got to steer well clear of idgicon then :-]
He signed a contract with Idigicon. Either he didn't take the time to read the terms and conditions (which would be pretty dumb) or he was happy to accept them.
1] i take it someone signed their work away without thought?
Only Anthony or Idigicon could answer that. In either case the contractual obligations on Anthony's part are largely irrelevant since Idigicon didn't pay him nearly enough money to be able to fight it in court. very true,but im only surmizing whats in this thread.its still a sad state of play,you could put it as buying this picture:-
even though someone bought it, it doesnt give them the right to claim it as their own,unless specifically stated.
i imagine everything is hearsay anyway,and as you rightly put,only the programmer and the publisher can answer any questions regarding it.
i also imagine for Anthony,its a harsh lesson learned,and in life,we learn quite a few of those!
even though someone bought it, it doesnt give them the right to claim it as their own,unless specifically stated.
i imagine everything is hearsay anyway,and as you rightly put,only the programmer and the publisher can answer any questions regarding it.
i also imagine for Anthony,its a harsh lesson learned,and in life,we learn quite a few of those!
No. Without wealth and fame
Wealth and fame are two different things. Additionally, there are plenty of people who've been given recognition but not necessarily money. Alexey Pajitnov for Tetris and Ralph Baer for the invention of the video just off the top of my head. Sure, at times it's the people with the money that try to take all the credit ... as it seems to be the case with Platypus. But if you look at the times when the individual who did the creating got credit, respect always goes to that person. I'm sure more people will remember Alexey Pajitnov than Henk Rogers although Rogers is the one who made all the money from Tetris.
What good is being mentioned in the credits for a Video game? Show me the money!
Cause. Then you have proof that you did it. Easy proof, which can get you more work and better deals later on.
Just for kicks I googled the psp version and checked out the big review sites. IGN, Gamespot yadda yadda.
They all don't like it. Say it is a boring, bland, basic shooter. Which it is.
I never understood all the fuss, outside not getting a name in the credits... I didn't understand the fuss before all this happened either. Are blitz games all so trash that we have to cheer and pat the backs of everyone that finishes one? What is the point? Where are the really really good blitz games?
By good, I mean that aren't just 'new' versions on other games with different graphics and maybe a few new features when they are fun to play. Or aren't terrible and hard to use when they AREN'T total rips of other games?
I'm sitting on an egg. It is getting close to hatching. It isn't a game, but a new way of selling/making/and thinking about indie games. I was going to keep it to myself... But I think it would be best if everyone had the idea. I'll work up a little essay and then post it. Something thought-out and well-written. Not like my typical non-sense. And not right here...
Platypus is a really good Blitz game. From the standpoint of lone man projects it's pretty awesome. The gameplay premise of course has been done before but it's the presentation and the claymation graphics that make it worthwhile. I admit it's not some classic game on a global scale but there really aren't that many of those at all. Judging on a community scale it's one of the best and certainly one of the games that's made it out of the doldrums.
For the most part that's the weakness of the Blitz community. Everyone's trying to fly solo or just about. There are only a handful of single-person developed games that anyone can remember and only half of those because they were actually good (the bottom half includes E.T. for the Atari if you know what I mean). Anyway, for a solo game Platypus has gone far.
For the most part that's the weakness of the Blitz community. Everyone's trying to fly solo or just about. There are only a handful of single-person developed games that anyone can remember and only half of those because they were actually good (the bottom half includes E.T. for the Atari if you know what I mean). Anyway, for a solo game Platypus has gone far.
Also, Gamespot gave it a 6.8 which is 'fair' borderline 'good'. I think the reviewer is somehow not convinced of the claymation graphics (probably thinks they are just computer renders) but still that's not a bad score. Perhaps if some of the components Anthony initially had in the game were left in tact/unbroken it would have done better ... but who knows maybe not.
I'd consider a 6.8 to be not worth playing. With so many great games out there, an indie game has to really stand out. Or be entirely different.
I think claymation graphics ARE entirely diffrent. Remember the cell shading hype with XIII, and other unique designs like killer 7, Jet Set Radio, Paper Mario, ico, rez, or okami. Because you woulnd't buy it doesn't mean nobody would buy it. There may be a number of people who are attracted by it and prefere it from the usual fps graphics.
Note: it's not Ingicon nor Ingdicon, nor Idiocon. From what I know, Idigicon is really some kind of "Pop Producer" for Bedroom coders, trying to make big money from the hard work of naive people who sell an entire game for a few k$. I quit from the contract as well as Blitzresearch and many other people as well, for good reasons.
Note: when you work 2 years on a game, you shouldn't sell it for 1000$. Better ask for 50'000 or more. Of course it has to be good, otherwise you better don't try to sell it at all.
That said, George from Idigicon, who may read this, isn't a criminal or so. You really have to read the contract and stop being naive.
I'd suggest to edit a contract for the following goals:
-You won't sell all rights, but only a non-exclusive license to distribute your Game. The copyright remains yours.
-Think about it twice if you really want to give away the sourcecode. If you do so, try the non-exclusive licese model mentioned before.
-Add a paragraph to the contract that forces any distributor to give you credit as the creator of the concept/idea etc.
Note: it's not Ingicon nor Ingdicon, nor Idiocon. From what I know, Idigicon is really some kind of "Pop Producer" for Bedroom coders, trying to make big money from the hard work of naive people who sell an entire game for a few k$. I quit from the contract as well as Blitzresearch and many other people as well, for good reasons.
Note: when you work 2 years on a game, you shouldn't sell it for 1000$. Better ask for 50'000 or more. Of course it has to be good, otherwise you better don't try to sell it at all.
That said, George from Idigicon, who may read this, isn't a criminal or so. You really have to read the contract and stop being naive.
I'd suggest to edit a contract for the following goals:
-You won't sell all rights, but only a non-exclusive license to distribute your Game. The copyright remains yours.
-Think about it twice if you really want to give away the sourcecode. If you do so, try the non-exclusive licese model mentioned before.
-Add a paragraph to the contract that forces any distributor to give you credit as the creator of the concept/idea etc.
It doesn't matter what it says in the contract. If you don't have the means to retain the services of a lawyer, in order to settled in disputes (in court if necessary), and they know this, they are going to take advantage of you.
If they know they can file a breach of contract lawsuit at any time, that you will not be able to defend yourself from, they will use that as leverage to push you way beyond your contractual obligations.
I'm not taking a stab at Idigicon, as there are hundreds of companies who do the exact same thing every day. With new developer teams being a dime a dozen, the "Vulture capitalist" approach is very popular. That "it's a learning experience" is not really any consolation, as the injured party may not be able to recover (financially or otherwise) from taking such a beating.
If they know they can file a breach of contract lawsuit at any time, that you will not be able to defend yourself from, they will use that as leverage to push you way beyond your contractual obligations.
I'm not taking a stab at Idigicon, as there are hundreds of companies who do the exact same thing every day. With new developer teams being a dime a dozen, the "Vulture capitalist" approach is very popular. That "it's a learning experience" is not really any consolation, as the injured party may not be able to recover (financially or otherwise) from taking such a beating.
Whatever a contract is stating clearly may be worth to fight for in court. Because at least here the losing party is going to pay the lawyers of both parties. Plus all damage reparations, of course.
Really? There are three flaws in that.
a) You still need to be able to front the cost of the lawyer in the first place.
b) Winning takes expensive lawyers.
c) You might still lose.
a) You still need to be able to front the cost of the lawyer in the first place.
b) Winning takes expensive lawyers.
c) You might still lose.
Either way, Ant, if you read this man, what happend to your wee farmer game, Iv not seen anything of it for a long long time. I hope you got it finished and published.
http://www.squashysoftware.com
@Evamp,
That picture posibly not, but go back and look at all the commertial Art work in the early 1900' and late 1800'
Very often the owners of the company who bougt the image do say its theirs. And although it doent give them the right to say that they Painted it, it doesn give then the right to commisition anyone they like to make the next poster, no matter how close a copy.
Also, in that picture, who get the money for the secondary rights to use the image? (OK so imagine evryone is still alive, and so-forth). Im not sure, but wasnt thatone sold for a sandwich? So nwo who would get money if it was put on the internet as an image to buy?
Very often in the UK, although you win "Costs" you dont get any money. Cos lets face it. The going bankcrupt laws now make it soooooo much easier than it was 10 years ago. As long as you can pay your lawers, they will keep going, and the other side will keep going. So often the oposite of what flame said happens, the company with the lots of money, just givesup, because its cheaper to payout than it is to be stuck with leagal bills than although the responiblity of the other party to pay, they dont.
Generaly at the moment that only time a company defends any of these cases are when its a massive punitive damages claim, or when presedent would be created, (or somtimes for image)
I would be happy if a publisher took my game. Even Ingicon, I read a post thread that Ant was in, about this. And he didnt seem that bothered. After all maybe it made it to those platforms Because of Indicon. And at the least he now know a buisness pitfall.
I remember a few years ago, one of the Mags was ofering $1000 (or £ cannot remember) for Indie games. It would belong to them, full rights theirs etc. And you know what, at the time it seemed like a good idea.
That picture posibly not, but go back and look at all the commertial Art work in the early 1900' and late 1800'
Very often the owners of the company who bougt the image do say its theirs. And although it doent give them the right to say that they Painted it, it doesn give then the right to commisition anyone they like to make the next poster, no matter how close a copy.
Also, in that picture, who get the money for the secondary rights to use the image? (OK so imagine evryone is still alive, and so-forth). Im not sure, but wasnt thatone sold for a sandwich? So nwo who would get money if it was put on the internet as an image to buy?
It doesn't matter what it says in the contract. If you don't have the means to retain the services of a lawyer, in order to settled in disputes (in court if necessary), and they know this, they are going to take advantage of you.
True, but Because at least here the losing party is going to pay the lawyers of both parties. Plus all damage reparations, of course
Sadly not as true as ppl think.Very often in the UK, although you win "Costs" you dont get any money. Cos lets face it. The going bankcrupt laws now make it soooooo much easier than it was 10 years ago. As long as you can pay your lawers, they will keep going, and the other side will keep going. So often the oposite of what flame said happens, the company with the lots of money, just givesup, because its cheaper to payout than it is to be stuck with leagal bills than although the responiblity of the other party to pay, they dont.
Generaly at the moment that only time a company defends any of these cases are when its a massive punitive damages claim, or when presedent would be created, (or somtimes for image)
I would be happy if a publisher took my game. Even Ingicon, I read a post thread that Ant was in, about this. And he didnt seem that bothered. After all maybe it made it to those platforms Because of Indicon. And at the least he now know a buisness pitfall.
I remember a few years ago, one of the Mags was ofering $1000 (or £ cannot remember) for Indie games. It would belong to them, full rights theirs etc. And you know what, at the time it seemed like a good idea.
The term "Indie Game" does not say how much work is in the game. Is it a simple fun game people play for a couple of minutes in the office, or is it a fullfledged game engine? Remember the costs of modern game engines are somewhere between 10 millions and 200 millions these days. So, even if the engine is only 10% of a modern engine, it's still much more worth than 1000$
Flameduck - you shoudn't be so negative about justice. There is a contract. after all it's there for something. I said " Whatever a contract is stating clearly may be worth to fight for in court." So if you're not sure, better don't try it. That's why it's important to write a contract that is clear and has no "rubber-interpretation-space" in it.
And if you're sure you'll win then money is not a problem. There may be a special law for people who cannot afford a lawyer, they may pay you a lawyer if you can't afford one. That said, when I was in court last time, I didn't have a Lawyer and I left the bulding as the winner.
Flameduck - you shoudn't be so negative about justice. There is a contract. after all it's there for something. I said " Whatever a contract is stating clearly may be worth to fight for in court." So if you're not sure, better don't try it. That's why it's important to write a contract that is clear and has no "rubber-interpretation-space" in it.
And if you're sure you'll win then money is not a problem. There may be a special law for people who cannot afford a lawyer, they may pay you a lawyer if you can't afford one. That said, when I was in court last time, I didn't have a Lawyer and I left the bulding as the winner.
As long as you can pay your lawers, they will keep going, and the other side will keep going.
In Denmark you cannot "keep going". You have to accept the outcome of the court. Remember the costs of modern game engines are somewhere between 10 millions and 200 millions these days.
What kind of wooden coins are we talking here? Even Gamebryo doesn't cost anywhere near $10 million USD, much less 20 times that. Flameduck - you shoudn't be so negative about justice.
Who's talking about justice? So if you're not sure, better don't try it.
Unless you're the Mafia, there is no way to be absolutely sure of the outcome of a trial. That's why it's important to write a contract that is clear and has no "rubber-interpretation-space" in it.
There is no such thing. Any written agreement about any piece of non-trivial software is open to interpretation. If it wasn't there wouldn't be such a thing as a corporate lawyer, and a special court to settle trade disputes. And if you're sure you'll win then money is not a problem.
Yes it is. Because even if you're absolutely dead sure you'll win, you still need to pay the lawyers fee before you go to trial, and thus before you get any money. Hell most won't even talk to you without the clock ticking. There may be a special law for people who cannot afford a lawyer, they may pay you a lawyer if you can't afford one.
You don't have any Miranda rights in a civil lawsuit. That said, when I was in court last time, I didn't have a Lawyer and I left the bulding as the winner.
Well the only time I've gone to court without legal representation, it cost me nearly $25000 USD. Sorry to hear this. Probably my glasses are a lil too much pink, probably the same amount you see it too negative and the truth may be somewhere in the middle.
@H&K
id admit i dont know the legal wrangling of copyright,etc
i mean,im not a lawyer or anything in terms that could be associated 'with the law', so i honestly dont know!
maybe i expect too much from the terms 'common courtesy' and 'professional etiquette'
id admit i dont know the legal wrangling of copyright,etc
i mean,im not a lawyer or anything in terms that could be associated 'with the law', so i honestly dont know!
maybe i expect too much from the terms 'common courtesy' and 'professional etiquette'
I've played the PSP version and it's 'OK' but just doesn't feel as well balanced as Anthony's original. I do quite like the survival mode though. Great for a quick 2 mins in between ticking items off the to-do list.
Thoughts:
The level sequencing is just plain wrong and in some places there will be nothing on screen apart from your ship for what seems like an age..
Enemy bullets are just too small to see clearly on the PSP screen. They should have been scaled up for the small screen.
Analog control seems a bit twitchy, I think it should have been toned down a little.
The collision detection leaves a lot to be desired, especially with respect to collecting power ups. Sometimes I've flown right over them and it's failed to pick them up. Weapons power is well out of whack too, especially the rockets are way too weak now.
Given how tough it is to collect the rockets, and how your standard pea-shooters are next to useless on the bosses, the new snake boss at the end of world 4 takes way too long to kill. This is especially frustrating as that is one of the new levels added for the PSP version and it's really nowhere near as interesting or polished as Anthony's originals.
It's a fairly well known fact that Anthony's classic first game was a 'learning experience' in terms of contracts. That being said, if I were Idigicon I'd be milking it for all it's worth too. I would however at least have the decency to ensure that Anthony was credited for the design and original artwork. All the level sequencing is still clearly based on his original work and so it is still recognisably his game.
Thoughts:
The level sequencing is just plain wrong and in some places there will be nothing on screen apart from your ship for what seems like an age..
Enemy bullets are just too small to see clearly on the PSP screen. They should have been scaled up for the small screen.
Analog control seems a bit twitchy, I think it should have been toned down a little.
The collision detection leaves a lot to be desired, especially with respect to collecting power ups. Sometimes I've flown right over them and it's failed to pick them up. Weapons power is well out of whack too, especially the rockets are way too weak now.
Given how tough it is to collect the rockets, and how your standard pea-shooters are next to useless on the bosses, the new snake boss at the end of world 4 takes way too long to kill. This is especially frustrating as that is one of the new levels added for the PSP version and it's really nowhere near as interesting or polished as Anthony's originals.
It's a fairly well known fact that Anthony's classic first game was a 'learning experience' in terms of contracts. That being said, if I were Idigicon I'd be milking it for all it's worth too. I would however at least have the decency to ensure that Anthony was credited for the design and original artwork. All the level sequencing is still clearly based on his original work and so it is still recognisably his game.