Next Gen Middleware Language?

If you mind I'm calling Blitz middlewares:

Are there any interesting similar languages coming up in the horizon that actually brings it to the "nextgen" technologies. I find Blitz 3D and BlitzMAX extremely helpful, flexible and great but as many of you are saying, it starts to feel a little old and even if you can come up with wonderful titles with DX7 it must be SOME interesting languages/middlewares out there that actually are aiming for new techs?

Please don't let this be a "why do you need shaders?" - debate but just keep it to the topic :)

Well perhaps you are not seeing Blitzmax support for Mac OS and Linux as being a plus but in my opinion this combined with 2d functions, gui and minib3d is quite unique and certainly not outdated.

Otherwise it's time for you to jump on the C# bandwagon, with xna, Tv3d and lots of other engines/middleware. This is the first noticeable tendency for me the second being linking-input-output-boxes kind of visual programming, with things like vvvv .

And finally Unity style, and editor with scripting (leadwerks engine could be considered similar).

For me there are two tools which stand out ahead of everything else. Which one you would use depends a great deal on your budget and the type of game you want to develop.

TV3D is, without doubt, a commercial grade 3d engine at a budget price, and if you want an engine which suits any kind of game, and can be used at a high or low level ( write your own renderer, or have it done automatically like Blitz ) then I don't think there's anything under $5k which compares with it.

If you're looking to develop the sort of game which it suits ( IE: something which doesn't require custom tools ) and you're keen on something integrated ( not a programming language and a 3d engine as separates ) and assuming your budget can afford it, Unity looks amazing. I should probably leave Taumel to tell you about this because he's made a number of tech demos with it which are featured on the official Unity site. It's moderately expensive ( but well worth it if you're making a commercial game IMO ) and it does require a Mac ( to develop on only, it can produce Windows EXE's ) but if this is your sort of thing then I can't see anything which competes with this.

What Gabe said.

Finish a game first... other words doesn't even help.

Even Blitz 2D is keeping up with new technology: As hardware improves, it gets faster and faster and faster :P

Have you looked at DarkBasic ? I understood there is a DX10 version coming up. The other program I've heard about is GameStudio, however I haven't tried both programs yet.

@pickles,

Actually, it got faster and faster, then it got stupidly slow, and now it *might* get faster to a point where it was 5 years ago sometime soon... thanks to the hardware MFGs playing about with stuff

my old Mario3 clone ran perfect on my old intel onboard celeron system, but it actually suffered from slowdown on my newer AMX XP system after I put a 6800 graphics card in. The performance is the same on this dual core, with a GF7600 card.

I don't know why they took some performance out there.

Anyway my M3 clone wasn't written too well- thats the only reason you SEE the slowdown, but its caused by modern GFX cards.

I'd be careful about DarkBasic. I used it for a while before
discovering Blitz. While it's sure got support for modern
technologies, I found it to be very unstable and just generally
not as well made as it could be. Just my opinion though.

Yeh, in honesty I find DB very unstable too. I am a registered user and when I recently updated it kept crashing.

Flipping 'eck. Nevermind about DX10, stability is EVERYTHING! :)

110% agree big10p!!!

@yoko... thats the key - finish a game, which is always made a bit (LOT!) easier if the development tool you are using is stable.

There was a time when this was very true. However, to give them their due, they've made DB Pro much, much better in recent updates. Is it as stable and solid as B3D? Perhaps not, but probably not far off any more, bearing in mind B3D is getting a few niggling issues as time goes by.

If you've tried a recent version and found this then fair enough, but I have to say I've found the recent versions a vast improvement and certainly something I could work with for an indie game. If I could live with the syntax that makes me want to bash my head through a plate glass window.

lol! Not just me, then?! It's shocking.

so... DBasicpro's off my list, if only for the sake of my mediocore looks (;-)

Theres always DarkGDK

Thanks a lot guys. Lot of great tips here.
No, I'm not after DX10 extraordinar functions, and yes, I am finishing games ;) still if one plan somehow to try to work as an indiedeveloper parttime one need to look beyond this year or the next and that's why I'm checking out alternatives to work with.

I've actually heard a lot of negative things about DarkBasic lately and frankly I haven't seen so many great finished products coming from that area. Maybe you could point me out to some projects to prove me wrong?

Its not the tools its the workman, there were many amazing games written many years ago in stuff like QBasic which people wouldnt give a second glance now. The thing is if you have the know how and have determination and patience you can make any game you want in any language you want.

Yes Blitz does still use DX7 and now there is DX10 out but there are still good looking commercial quality games coming out from Blitz. Although I would love to have Max3d or some sort of official 'endorement' of minib3d.

I tried this TV3D, however, all is not straightforward - I've got Visual Studio 2005 v8 - but some of the demos would not compile cleanly - many appear to be written for an older version of VS.

This is why I love B3D compared to BMax and virtually everything else out there - there is no noncing about with B3D - it just works without having to nonce about updating half of your development package and PC.

I want everything nice and simple - I don't want faff and nonce - I want Large and simple.

I'll take a double helping of Blitz3D v2 please "Mr Sibly" and put some stank (whatever that means) on it.