If you sell your IP make sure there's a clause ...

That only you can create sequels and that the product is
a whole and parts of it can't be separated out without futher
commission.

unless of course they pay you enought ;)

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?p=123358#post123358

I never really understood this whole affair of Platypus and Idigicon - I'm not too sure of what Ididgicon have done wrong.

In the software business as a developer, you will be offered numerous options by a publisher - but that must be agreed. Sometimes a publisher will see an opportunity (and not discuss that) and decided to buy the thing outright.

However, what exactly is it that Idigicon did that upset so many people?

It seems there is no end to the lessoning of Anthony as to just how cheaply he sold the IP for. :/

Paying a *tiny* amount for the IP?

Yeh but it must have been agreed.

They shut down BlitzCoder, Moved everyone over to CodersWarezShop, pimped their products to members on the site then when sales started dropping they killed it.

I also remember a competition on BlitzCoder run by Idigicon. It was a competition for members, only. I remember more than 30 people submitting their programs, including source code. None of them won. The person who won wasn't even a member of the site and when I kicked up a stink about this a username mysteriously appeard that Idigicon claimed was his.

They took all peoples sourcode, gave them F'all and gave the prize to a person who didn't even know that BlitzCoder existed.

What about Pro Pixel. That was the biggest scam on the planet.

I could go on and on and on.

Of course. Idigi just took advantage though, IMO. They paid peanuts.

Well, in their defence (and I am not disputing anything anyone raises against them) they have given a lot of opportunities to a lot of people - plus they are the main factor in the holding of the Blitzcons in the UK - plus, they have given out a lot of free stuff at Blitzcons.

It's swings and roundabouts really.

It's a question of perspective. From their point of view they did everything right. They got a quality IP for very little money. From Anthony's point of view they could have renegotiated his deal when it became obvious they had a hit and gave him the recognition, both financially and credited, he deserved.

lol. That hardly makes up for ripping people off!

Mmm, I think you lot are missing the point here.

I want them to die. :)

Okay. Please do explain the point I'm missing. :)

The problem we have here is this:

Let's suppose I have now made this Platypus thing. Let's assume I don't want it sold as an 'online' game through all the various sites that do this. Let's suppose I want to see my game in a box - maybe hoping to see it sold in a shop. What publishers can I approach for that kind of deal (baring in mind the game in question)?

I'm not sure Anthony cared how the game was sold (I may be wrong) - I think he just wanted to make some money. He was pretty broke at the time, I believe.

Idigicon are an independent - they are probably fighting for survival. There are not many publishers like them. For an Indie developer they might be the only option.

They probably have been stiffed many times over the years by developers (ie Blitzers). I think "George" has learned by experience how to negotiate deals and sieze opportunites.

Idigicon will negotiate any game deal well within their safety zone - well within. This is because the client is supposed to negotiate them out. I would not expect Idigicon to negotiate the deal on behalf of a client who is not doing so. Idigicon will take advantage - yeh. However, they would be stupid not to.

I've read that twice, puki - I'm still not sure what you're point is.

Also, how would developers (blitzers) go about 'stiffing' Idigicon, exactly?

Well I can remember when George was happily telling people that if a game was very successful, they would of course go back to the author and renegotiate to make sure that the author got a fair share of the additional revenue. Not because they had to, just because that was the right thing to do.

I wonder just how much better Platypus has to do to be considered very successful.

heh :P

My point is clear an obvious.

Idigicon put forward a deal - it was probably inside what they could offer - the deal was agreed. Idigicon cannot be blamed for that. Bare in mind I don't fully understand the Platypus issue though.

However, maybe they offered all they could offer (in the hope that the deal would be struck) - they still cannot be blamed.

With regard to Idigicon being stiffed. Well, everyone has to start somewhere. Some publishers pay for a title before it is finished - they might negotiate an intial payment to the client and then agree subsequent royalties (or not). Major publishers pump millions into projects that never see the light of day - I can imagine that Idigicon have done this too (EDIT: not millions).

Oh, I didn't see the post:



Again, this should be contractural. Anyone who was told this must have this as a contract.

You're right - legally they can't be blamed. I'm more concerned about the moral issue, though.

Let's not start imagining things, and just deal with facts. ;)

What moral issue?

Theres no way a developer can take advantage of Idigicon because they are capable of playing the game before buying it.

Paying such a small amount for the IP. We're going 'round in circles here.

I don't believe I've heard about this before.... what happened with Pro Pixel?

Well, Idigicon don't just do games - I'd be suspicious that they have paid up front for educational titles prior to them being released - I might be wrong there. However, I'm suspicious that Idigicon must have had their fingers burnt somewhere along their path - even if it was in the beginning days.

I'd like to know, also.

Even if that had happened, does it give them the right to take advantage of other people?

I bought it and it was buggy. If you were on BC and then CW the developer kept telling us month after month that a fix and update was coming.

1 year later and nothing. We ask again and get told the same old crap that it was in Idigicon's hands. Well guess what? 2 years later and not a damn thing. No update, no contact from the developer and even the registration system in Pro Pixel doesn't work.

That = Classic Idigi(CON)

[edit] I'm going to sift through my backup CD's to find the email I got from Idigicon when I started pimping GraphicsGale and Pro Motion to the BC and CW crew. Following that email from idigicon I lost my posting privelages. :/

Well, "Amon" might have just cemented my point - If Idigicon were not the developer/creator of Pro Pixel then this is potentially a clear example of them being stiffed that then relates onto their customers.

I give up. :)

I declare myself the winner.

Everyone is to hand over all of their code and media to me - most major developers already have.

yeah, they're just not aware that they have. :P

Actually, there was an eerily similar thread on Blitzcoder before it closed.

A guy asked if he sold the IP to idigicon, and the game became a hit, would he then get something extra. Someone from idigicon replied that if the game was a hit, they would certainly compensate the author... They weren't monsters, they cared about their developers etc.

I've tried to find the post, but haven't been able to. It should be by either george or that other guy that George was refering people to in the last few months, but I seem to recall that George was the culprit.

Andy

They should have renegotiated the deal as a good will gesture. This would have fostered good feelings between Idigicon and the indie dev community. We wouldn't now be debating this, we'd all be singing their praises and trying to sell them our IP's, they'd be telling us all about how they're publishing Cletus Clay, and world peace would have broken out, etc, etc. If they'd have stayed on good terms with Anthony Flack he'd have probably written Platypus II for them from scratch, with all new claymation, instead of the re-hash of the first one that's being made.

That's a nice game you have there, would be a shame if anything bad where to happen to it. Just because it's an agreement, doesn't mean it's fair.

Did they? No offense to Anthony, but I doubt their ownership of the Platypus IP has given so much of a profit (for them) to offset the loss of good will, from the people who provide their bread and butter.

When your business strategy is to rip off the people who provide you with the products you distribute and sell, eventually they're going to stop making games, and start singing songs about Mickey Mouse over the phone to Japanese kids.

The absurd thing is that Idigicon could have easilly afforded to pay Mr. Flack (or indeed any other New Zealand based company and/or individuals) a decent (by NZ standards) salary. Why? Because the UK economy is so much stringer than the NZ one. When I was in New Zealand I lived like a king in Central Auckland off my Danish student benefit. Compared to prices in Denmark/UK everything (with the exception of Internet Connections) is dirt cheap in NZ.

That depends on what you mean by "like them". With the possible exception of Nintendo, ALL video game publishers are independant and fighting for survival.

In Denmark, a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one, albleit more difficult to prove. However it doesn't really matter what it says in the contract when only one party has the financial strength to enforce it, does it?

Preying on inexperienced developers for the sole purpose of ripping them off? Sure there's one born every minute, but the quality of your products suffers greatly from the turn-over rate.

I can sympathize with Anthony's plight, but, I think this rampant defending of his case is just some kind of blind indie idealism.

He agreed to the deal. Yeah, it sucked, and hindsight is always 20/20, but that doesn't make what Idigicon did wrong.

Do you feel "wrong" if you win an auction on Ebay for a lower price than you were expecting to pay?

No, but I certainly would if I bought a collectable on EBay, promised the seller that I would give him a cut if it proved to be valuable, made a lot of money from it, and gave him nothing.

It's self evident that I haven't done anything illegal, since the promise would be made after he sold me the item. But yes, I would feel "wrong", and moreover, I wouldn't allow it to happen.

Which Anthony?

Anthony Flack.

Been watching this thread for a while now...
If you don't think its fair, why the hell would you agree to it??

Anthony hasn't been ripped off. That's the bottom line.

There was a deal offered, and he took it. That's an agreement. Nobody forced him to take it. I didn't win the lottery this week but I didn't go bitching at Camelot for selling me a duff ticket.

You have to decide what you think is best for you at the time. That's what Anthony did. If he got it wrong then the worst you can put it down to is an error of Anthony's judgement. He might not like the fact that he made a mistake, and you lot might be happy to have something else to gossip about. But at the end of the day, an agreement is an agreement, which all concerned parties now have to live with.

What's done is done. I hope Anthony's still working on his new game and wish him every success with it. Any news on Cletus Clay ?

What's the problem?

They own maybe the Platypus name, and the code. That's all. They don't own the right to all shooters from this day forward that use claymation, and Anthony can always recode it. He can just make another one that looks a bit different, and has diferent enemies, and a new name, if he thinks it will sell.

I suppose he could have signed a contract stating he wouldn't make another claymation shooter for two years, but we haven't heard about anything like that.

I'd choose GarageGames over Idigicon as a retailer for my game anytime -.-

You don't choose publishers. They choose you.

Because an unfair deal is better than no deal at all? Not everyone has contacts in the industry they can use to swing a deal in their favour.

Depends on your game.

Well, I'll admit there were issues with the update system but that was out of my hands. It was bad timing and ProPixel got pushed under the rug to sell itself. Any urgent bugs were actually addressed early on, just the update never appeared.

I personally carried on supporting it as many beta testers will confirm. I sent all updates to Idigicon, and informed them how to fix the update system. (They wouldn't give me access to the system to hot fix it).

Anyway, I certainly didn't stiff Idigicon, and I've been working on the product with no income since my initial payment. The extra features came out as and when, bugs I dealt with immediately.

Which is all immaterial now, since then things have changed at Idigicon and for once I've been given back access to the ProPixel server, and, if you check the updates it's fully working and has been for some time. Please remember I'm no longer being paid to support my product, but I hate to see something I created go down the pan, so I'm back to sort things out.

But, I suggest you stop assuming until you know the facts.