Salary Increase?

I'm about to have my first review for a salary increase tommorow. I've actually been working here at this IT firm for 2 years out of college, 1 year was a contractor, and the second was full time hire. The issue is that I'm not too sure what to ask for and I'm not willing to accept some cheesy 2% increase considering all the work I've done here..

As of right now, I'm being paid under the typical salary of someone in my level (around 5-10k less!). This is due to the fact that this is a smaller company and we're "compensated" by allowing us to work from home one day of the week (whoopee...).

So anyways, I know the usual 2% increase is totally out of the question. What would be raise to ask for and should I even justify it?

It depends on how replaceable you are. I'd ask for at least the 5-10K you're getting shorted, and at least 5% on top. If you feel you need to justify it, you haven't deserved it.

When I worked at Infogrames and moved into motion capture, I was originally on £4k less than everybody else.

I brought this up at my six months performance review, along with evidence that I'd done more than 50% of the work myself on our most recent projects (in a team of five people who basically tossed it off playing games all day). Got my salary brought in line with everybody else's after that.

In other words - show them you're worth it.

The mind boggles as to why I was first on the redundancy list three years later. :/

Because Infogrames is comprised of a bunch of [somewhat misguided but well meaning folks].

I wouldn't ask for anything. Simply put the question back to them, "What am I worth to you?".

If they insist on you giving them a figure then definitely push for the typical salary someone in your position is should be getting. Take no crap about them being a small company, that excuse is often used to keep salaries down. I bet when they charge their customers they don't charge less because they are a small company.

Most importantly though. If you'd find it hard to get another job with a good wage, have a family to feed etc, then I'd not go rocking the boat too much, but instead start looking for another job if they only offer a less than inflation wage rise.

Has this site got a new censor, or did you do that yourself?

It rocks, either way. :)

Is this infogrames or 'Ocean' after they were bought out? ...Sounds like Ocean judging by the amount of flotsam you had there.

It was Gremlin (Graphics). IIRC.

It was Gremlin Interactive. Parent company Gremlin Group PLC was bought by Infogrames which I believe included, among others, DMA Design and Psygnosis.

Good luck man. Providing you haven't been lounging around at work and have made a real difference to the company and have improved your skills too you should be worth more so be honest and say "OK, so I've worked for you for two years and done this and this and this and currently I'm being paid under industry par but realise I get the bonus of working at home one day to partially compensate; so I'm looking for an appropriate raise that is fair to all parties - what do you think you could offer me and what you you need from me in return?" And sit back ... :-)

Oh and positively psyche yourself up tonight and in the morning and before your review. See it going really well, all smiles and positive comments and then you delivering your pay rise question in a confident manner and them replying very posivitely. This totally worked for me in sales, and for sports people and many successful people, try it. Go for it!

You shouldn't think (dwell on) worst case or bad scenarios but it may help your confidence to examine such scenarios so you know they hold no fear. For example the most ridulous is "how dare you ask that you are fired", it's totally unlikely and illegal, and if they did fire you, you'd get a another job no problems. Another worse case is they offer you no pay rise or peanuts, so you can either a) say that's not so hot (in a positive way) and reopen discussions or b) take it and look for another job or c) take it and earn some more money moonlighting. Ok then there's they offer you a half-decent raise and they may also offer you are really good one. So basically you can't loose. Remember the management is not to be viewed as the enemy when asking for a raise, you are a team and they want the team to work well.

Hope my rambling helps in some way :-)

Hmm.....i never considered that. I'll definately have to check up on that one! Thanks!

What Flameduck said.

Hopefully you will have built up a relationship with your clients, and/or have proved yourself valuable enough to 'pay that bit more' to keep.

Be prepared to jump ship. Once a company has you on board they rarely see the need to up the salary more then the standard they give to everyone.

I used to get paid a lot less than this other kid in the IT dept even though I was doing 3 times the work and he knew bugger all.
He spends most of his time on MSN or asking us what to do (i.e. getting us to do his job)

In my most recent review, I stood up for myself and told the that my wage was an insult and I do more than the other kid.

I'm now on more than him and he is getting moved out of IT into a more "fitting role"

Heh, I *heard* this has happened before to a few folks...because I'm already in the mindset for :



I'm prepared and willing. From speaking with some of the more senior developers, its quite apparent that the only way to garnish a higher salary for yourself in the IT field is just swtich jobs every few years. I'll wait and see how it goes tommorow....may not be so bad after all, or maybe it will.

Just be honest and ask if what you want is acceptable. Don't just walk in and say 'yes, yes, yes' then walk out feeling like you need to find another job. You've expressed your feelings here. It does take a bit of confidence to ask for a payrise, but I'm a nervous person and I tried, and succeeded, just by a few smiles, friendly chat etc.

Don't just accept it, or they WILL give you the minimum. And you don't want that. This is your chance to negotiate.

Good luck man. It's can be difficult to ask for it, but, if you feel you deserve it, then go get it! People you work for are always trying to maximise profits, at their workers expense. Good luck!

No! Wrong! Well, most likely it's wrong. There are some companies that are going down the pan, but generally most are doing well.

I had this feeling for a long time, but it's simply that IT people (generally speaking) aren't very confident, so they get the minimum pay rise, then they hide away and try to find jobs subversively on the side. Then the same thing happens at their next job. Just use your cahones and push for a payrise.

I regret moving jobs - my old MD seemed like a skinflint, but I'm sure he would've paid more than my present employer if I had pushed him.

Your jump ship attitude may come across, put it out of your mind and go for the positive approach for now and if it doesn't work out then jump ship. But you gotta negotiate from a positive mindset.

I remember a long time ago (1989-90) I got the smae rise as most of the company. At the time I was being paid 6K less than people doing the same job. I had a good working relationship with the MD and the FD and I just plainly went in and - like grey says, be polite and acknowledge the good things they gave me (pension/company car overtime opportunities etc), and asked for the same pay as my colleague. When they asked for a figure I went 1k under my colleague for two reasons, he was more experienced than I by about 7 years and I felt that he would probably get to know about it, souring that relationship wasn't worth the extra 1k.

There can be many factors which all point to what you should ask for. Be realistic and be prepared for them to say both yes and no that way you have prepared a case to argue.

Remember this, no one is indispensable, even if your contract says you are not - you are. Having a realisitic appraisal of your place in the company and your worth is your strongest allie when it comes to negotiating.

Good luck.

IPete2.

Let us know what happens.

Well, I finnally went through with it and would you know, they decided to wait until the very tail end of the work day to finnaly get to me. Needless to say, i was not in a very good mood by then, considering this was suppose to be done first thing in the morning so I can leave and do my work from home to avoid the gridlock traffic. Hell, it was one of my compensation right? And they knew this was why i worked from homes on Fridays. Oh well, looks like its another 2 hours before i get home....

Anyways, it was quite brief, just the way i would of have wanted it cause i didnt feel like messing around trying to beg for anything. They told me the typical crap of what i needed to improve in...blah blah blah...which of most didnt matter since i do all the grunt work anyways and never once complained.

Finally they gave me a new salary amount, and ask if that would be fine with me - probably hoping i'd just say SURE THINGY BOSS like I always do with all my other shitty tasks. They were quite surprised when I said :
"No, not really."

Lookin a bit puzzled they asked "Well, what were you looking for?"
"More than this." I said, and nothing more.
"Ok....how about this.." they said bumping up the number a couple more Ks. "Is this more in your range?"
"Its getting there." I said. "But thats not what I was looking for."

"Ok well, we'll try to get you higher. We cant guarantee anything but we'll see if we can get you at.." they bumped it up even more. "How about we do this again on Monday since its the end of the day now and we all want to leave?"
"No shit" i thought. "Thats fine." i said to them.
"Hopfully we'll find something that'll make you happy and that we both can agree on." They said as I began to leave.
"Sure." i said and left to go back to my cubicle.

I think they probably felt the hostility i had with my brief and unexpected responses. Considering that I've been due up for a raise for over 3 months now before they finnally decided to do this 5 minute thing. Not that I really care what they think of me now, but i'm going to try and push it up as much as possible since its quite obvious that they have no trouble paying up a bit more. Just like some of you guys (and a senior collegue) have said, at the end of it all, i have to look out for the benefit of myself and they could care less if i'm being paid under the standard level - as long as i get the work done is all that really actually matters to them.

We'll see how this goes on Monday...

Nicely done :o) Glad you got something out of it man.

Stick it to the man!

Wait, I am the man.

Stick it to me!

hehe sounds like you did it right except you were too resentful.

Monday will be interesting. I think you should stick to your guns as you're doing right now - they'd have you working for nothing if they were able...when I think back at how I was exploited when I was younger GRRRRR!

Good luck!

Sounds great that you can alrady secure a good raise and hopefully they'll give you an even better figure. Chill though and try to think positive all weekend. Hostility won't get you anywhere long term. Good luck! :-)

There are only a very few places that you can actually have an opinion on what type of compensation you will receive. Especially if you're a "junior" level IT person and the type of IT position you hold.

Yur experience level is in depth (number of years), not breadth (different environments). That will work against you. The "prepare to jump ship" advice might be best for you in the long run anyway.

However, if you insist on sticking around, you're in a small company, so you might have a little more leverage than you would at a larger place. Just becareful not to misperceive your net worth in comparison to other elements of the company.

If they do not want to give you a higher annual salary, you should consider and try to negotiate bonuses based on goals. Smaller companies will sometimes agree to this as it doesn't immediately affect their bottom line.

This will keep your base salary level low (and you nearer the bottom of the chopping block if they need to start cutting people based on that number), and can actually get you more in the long run if the company starts to do well and your bonuses are based on a percentage.

If you insist on a base salary increase rather than bonuses, you will need to come up with a better reason than "Person A is making X. I should be at that level". Discussing salary is taboo at any company. You don't want to be perceived as a person who does this. Some companies will even use that as an excuse to get rid of you (either immediately, or later).

Just something to think about.

Unlike what a lot of people are saying here, it's not so much about how much you are worth, but how much your perceived worth is. Which is very frustrating because we've all worked with slackers and brown-nosers who somehow retain employment at salaries they don't deserve. It's an unfortunate reality.

This is the perfect time to get your salary sorted out, and speak your mind because it is no point complaining about your salary after it has been set. So, go for it now, Neuro, and tell us all about it on Monday! ;)

Guess what...its frickin Tuesday and no follow up! They werent even here yesterday or today. Incredible management we got going on here. I'm going to be lookin for a new job in a few days...

The way you described it makes it sound like you had a bad attitude through the meeting.

Hmm yep sounds like you were a bit blunt... Better to treat stuff like this as a friendly conversation... smile and laugh a bit, always helps ease the situation round to your way of thinking.

I sure as hell did.



As much as I normally do, after nearly 4 months of waiting for a raise and broken promises, i don't think it warrants me pretending to be cheerful around them anymore. Heh, I just told my project manager that i'm planning on quiting soon and why. Now HE's pissed and is gonna go raise some hell with the higher ups ...... wonder how this is gonna turn out....considering he's running of one of our largest contracts and he's been threatening to leave also.

I don't think you're showing bad attitude at all. You have to let these parasites know what you think or else they'll take you for everything they can get and won't think twice about it. They want to pay peanuts tell them to hire a monkey and you go and find somewhere that'll appreciate you as a valuable asset. It's not like you're leaving them in the lurch - you've fore-warned them...not like they'd do for you if cut-back time was imminent.

Perhaps you should rethink your approach. You may well deserve a raise but you don't have an automatic right to one. If I was an employer and an employee of mine acted sullen and passive aggressive during his appraisal then I would feel less inclined to give him as decent a raise as I otherwise might. I understand how you feel (no one likes to feel underpaid and under appreciated), but all you're demonstrating are poor social skills and a tendency to stir up trouble - at least, this might be your employer's perception of your behaviour.

And don't forget that regardless of your skill and talent, it's a sad fact of life that you are replaceable.

I agree with Luke. You have every right to *feel* sullen and fed up, but I think you made the task ( if the task was getting the raise you deserve ) harder for yourself by letting it show. But reading the thread in it's entirety, I kinda get the impression that part of you was hoping they wouldn't give you a fair deal so that you'd have a good reason to go somewhere else. In which case, perhaps you did the right thing after all.

Do what most workers do in america. Buy a gun a shoot your boss. Then shoot your lawyer for not defending you properly in court. Go on a rampage, dude.

[DISCLAIMER]Taking advice from me can be hazardous to your health.

This is exciting, like an episode of 24. So what happened next dude?

Your post about the meeting made me cringe like something from 'The Office'.
Agression and bad attitude in any business meeting is not the best way to achieve your aims.
Politely outlining, in a cool,professional and friendly way, why you think you deserve more and stating the fixed amount you expect would be more likely to succeed. However, as stated before, it seems like you didn't really want to come to an agreement.

You're right. I am very replaceable. But i always thought that hard work, dedication, and patience would hopfully result in something good at the end. This time, it didn't or rather, hasn't. But from what I understand, me leaving this company does not stand well with the senior developers or project managers - considering all the good work i've done with them. And their say have a very heavy bearing on the well being of the company...


Actually, I really rather stay. I'm comfortable with what I do (although military government web apps are incredibly boring), I like the people i work with. And I'm getting good experience. I did not intend on leaving at all but the tension build up these past few months has prepared me mentally for it. Something has to give.

But I just don't like how i've been due up for a raise for nearly 4 months. I kindly and patiently reminded them, I consistenly listen to their meaningless and apparent uncaring promises, only to hear them suggest to me a ridiculous low amount, ONLY to have them lie again and not follow through with my review.


Hmm.....


Lol...yah my situation has thrown a wrench into the daily functions at the office. For the most part, out of 16 people who actually work there, majority totally agree that I'm in the right and should be given whats been promised to me. The others were seemingly unconcerned cause my situation didn't really affect them.

The one head project manger who I talked to earlier about leaving went and bitched to the CEO about my situation. The CEO has to get in touch with the owner of company to get a deal their will to give me, but he's apparently "gone" somewhere and should be back tommorow. They will supposely have a meeting with me tommorow to make sure I'm "okay again" with the company.

Heh, but the best thing about it is that theres suppose to be inclement weather tommorow(snow! snow!). And usually when there is, the whole office works from home. Great timing, isnt it?

The interesting thing about the situation is that the senior project manager whos helping me out with this is also not on good terms with the CEO and owner of the company. We had a long talk before I left work today about how he's considering leaving soon also, since this kind crap happens too often here - promises made, promises push back, promises made again, promises pushed back even more - for NO apparent reason. Just poor priority and management descisions. But through his government contacts at the Navy Yard (in DC), he's pratically carrying the company with the contracts he's gotten. He's now going to review the no-competion disclosure agreement with the company. When or if he does leave, he's gonna start his own firm and I'll be one of his first hires! :D



No, I actually wanted an agreement. I would have wanted to finish this the first meeting back on Friday. I've been waiting for over 3 months for this, only to have them delay it some more. Its put a scorn in my usual ass-kissing go-happy attitude i always use to have with them.

Like i've stated before. I have ALWAYS politely asked them and reminded them about this. I've ALWAYS kept a great attitude about it when they ever they promise to do it and then, dont it do it. And I ALWAYS went back and kissed their ass even more. Never once did I show any contempt for any decisions they've made on me. This has been going on since late October when I was due for a raise.

Now I'm done with it. Something needs to change.

BTW, big thanks to everyone for the advices, ideas, and responses. I've probably gotten more accomplished here with you guys then I would of over there with them...

I actually think you're right to try out a new strategy, especially since the old strategy obviously didn't work...

Well, to keep a long story short. I finnally got the raise. Not as much as I would want it, but it was...fair. After a battle of logic with them, they're even back dating it back to October last year. So I guess I'm staying after all...for the time being.

wow back dating cool. well done!

Congrats!

Neuro,

Congrats! That is good news.

IPete2.

Thanks for all the support folks!