Which level editor for getting a job?

I'm looking to get into games professionally in the new year. I've got some experience with level editors and feel this would be a good way in.

Which editor is best for employers though?

I'm currently torn between Hammer, unrealEd, and Quake4.

You're entering a world of pain... :p

Hard to say since most games still don't use off the shelf editors. And a large number of proprietary engines use 3D apps like Max, maya and lightwave for level editing.

Even more now than thay used to, now that BSP is taking a backseat in the visuals of modern games.

Some experience with CSG editors is good, but most jobs advertise will be more interested in your regular 3d skills and past hands on experience.

When I worked at Gremlin Interactive, they used Maya for level editing in many games.

The last place I worked at used 3dsmax for level editing and vehicles, Maya for characters and character animation.

place before that I had to use primarily Lightwave, but they then made a transition to 3DSmax when they updated their engine and started new projects.

Current level design jobs on Gamasutra . BTW a lot of Game designer positions these days are very closely related to level designer positions. Since to design gameplay you need to be able to use the level design tools to set up the gameplay (flesh out the world, scaling, AI, key events, triggers etc.) and what have you, then hand those over to others to add the details.

Special move level editor

Must have some 3D-level editing experience (Ie, Unreal, 3DS Max, Maya etc)


Shiny entertainmant Level designer

Fundamental skills with and understanding of 3D modeling software, such as Maya or 3D Studio Max, and 2D art software, including Photoshop and Illustrator.


The Collective Level designer

Experience using 3D world-building tools and/or 3DStudioMax or Maya to implement gameplay.


The Collective Senior level designer

Over 2 years of industry level design experience using world-building tools and/or 3DStudioMax or Maya.


Bioware Edmonton level designer

Experience with Unreal level editor
3D Studio Max experience is an asset


High moon studios game designer

-Strong 3D visualization and modeling skills, Maya experience preferred.


Insomniac games game designer

• Must have experience building rough geometry in a 3D Modeling program.
• Knowledge of Maya 6 and Adobe Illustrator are a plus.


Slipgate Ironworks game designer

Use 3ds Max to define basic level flow and collision space while working interactively with an environment artist to create incredible dungeons and spectacular cities

* Working knowledge of Maya, 3DSMax, or other 3D modeling programs


Ubisoft San Fran Game designer

Proficiency in MS Word, Excel, Power Point and the ability to use software applications & editors like 3DS-Max and Photoshop


Bioware Austin gamelevel designer

Must have practical 3D level building experience
Proficient with 3D Studio Max


Vigil Games environment artist

• Experience using 3DSMax, Zbrush, Photoshop and/or Painter.


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So in the current job listings these last couple of weeks Maya or 3ds max skills are the most sought after.

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3ds max it is, anyone wanna lend me £3000 ???

Gfk, you worked at gremlin, you might know a guy called Sean I know, he's working at Sumo now

heh, I just found an interesting web page with 3dsmax statistics in the UK

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/3ds%20max.do

Average Minimum Salary £27,832
Average Salary £30,806 up 10.6% over last year
Average Maximum Salary £33,780

Sean who?

Its coming up 6 years since i worked there, the names are getting a bit hazy. :)

Crazy the difference in price in the Uk, talk about rip off Britain.

£1,842 or $3,495 in the US
£2,695 or $5,113 in the UK

Not Shaun Southern!?

IMO, companies using 3DS Max for level creation are throwing productivity out the window. Max isn't made for that.

But besides that, you need to decide which games you want to work on. You must have SOME idea of where you want to work. Ubi Soft, Epic, Bioware, or whereever. Learn the tech that the companies you favor are using. Generalizing won't help you in this case.

Well, knowing that there's plenty of different level editors, I still rely on the easiest level editor of them all, Build. Thanks a lot 3D Realms! If only more game developers would go back to easy to use level editors like that again, I'd give 'em a "Soprano Mafia" hug for sure. Hehe...

well you are rarely trying to sell you level editor skills, mainly your artistic skill.
The tools you use or don't use are rarely an obstacle to getting a job:)
Wedgebob, you have to be joking. This is 2007. What the heck would you use build editor for these days?
Trying to get build editor working was a nightmare in itself

Warren? 3dsmax is great for level building, apart from the snaps don't work properly

heh, I like the snaps in max, allthough they can take a bit of getting used to. The snaps are the best part of max for laying out levels, and the shift clone drag of instanced geometry along with snapping make it really powerful.

I also like the ability to shift extrude faces to create quick walls and flesh levels out, as well as being able to us spline modeling and extrusion etc.

You still have the ability to render your game engine in viewports and write scripts for your objects etc from within 3dsmax amongst other things.

I do think that CSG editors are good for offering tools for modding, etc but there are benefits to both ways of doing things, much depending on the kind of game your making.

3D World Studio is used by most companies that utilize Torque.

Halo, I think he means professional editors.

Personally I'd go with UnRealEd and Maya. The new UnReal Engine 3.0 is proving to be very popular and Maya is pretty much the industry standard 3d modeler.

[EDIT] Let me rephrase, I think he means editors that are already in use by game companies. (Is there a right way to say that ?)

Well, you've got the Unreal engine, the Source engine, the Cryengine, and the Quake engine. Unreal and Source I'd say are the best choices.

Max and Maya might be used by a lot more companies, but do you want to ENJOY your job? I got frustrated as hell just trying to build a fancy UV mapped crate in Max.

I could do the same thing in two minutes in the old Quake editors or the old Unreal editor with no frustration. I'd say anyone making levels with Max has gotta have a pretty crappy job.

Furthermore, when Max and maya is used for making levels, a lot of the time what that means is you placing down prefab objects. You won't be doing the actual architecture. That would be the job of the artist. And that's the FUN part! With the Source engine though, you'd be actually laying out level geometry, lighting it, and doing all this with the gameplay in mind... rather than some artist designing level sections that look pretty and get reused over and over and play like crap.

Well, even the Doom 3 engine was used to its limits within the first couple of years of being out on the market. Look at Prey, that was one of the first games to really take advantage of everything that the Doom 3 engine was capable of.

Well you have to use prefab objects to some degree, unless you hire a hundred artists. Personally I don't care if all the computer meshes in a level are the same, or of 2 types only. Then again, I don't need Max or Maya to place prefab meshes in a map. But they may be useful to model the prefab objects, plus and especially characters! For the terrain/landscape/architecture part I'd say yes, an other editor is required.
As sswifty seems to suggest, sometimes it's best to buy a commercial game and use its level editor - as long as it has a useful export format.

Well every game is gonna use prefab stuff to some degree these days. Like Half Life will have railings for you to place, and desks, and chairs and all that other fun stuff. In system Shock 2 they had little computers to place on walls and stuff as well. The prefabs I'm talking about are more like Halo, where entire buildings are prefab and reused over and over. LAME! Making terrains alone is only so interesting.

Telesto,

If you can prove you are using it for none commercial purposes and only Learninf purposes I think you can contact Discreet and get Max at a very reasonable price. I know a school recently bought quite a few seats (lets say more than 10) for only £1,600. Yep ONE THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED POUNDS.

Worth asking is what I would say, you won't be able to use it for commercial purposes but to learn it you could do very nicely.

IPete2.

actually placing prefabs and tileable geometry is easier in max than the regular CSG editors I have used. Especialy if your reusing the same tile through out the level. since you can just drag instance rotate and snap it seamlessly to another tile/mesh in one go and not have to have a prefab browser or anything.

You can also do the same with selections and groups, or selection sets and the instances all reference the original object.

So you still get all the benefits of a regular object placement editor since each tile is only exported once, the duplicates all getting a trasform node with mesh ID.

Its also easy to scatter objects aroud your scene (traw a closed spline shape and you can control how instanced meshes are scattered within that space using various parameters, or do arrays along spline paths or between points selected in your scene.

Collision and dynamic AI floormap meshes etc can be quickly edited.

Plus a team can work simultaniously on the same level over a network in realtime, which is pretty handy if everything is set up and you have multiple artists on the same levels.

Well, if you have a strong PhD in stuff like that, you could even be brave enough to even design a game engine far superior to anything you've ever played in your life. I mean, Source, Doom 3, and Unreal 3 engines are cool, but only a brilliant mind could outdo all three of the big, current-gen FPS engines, for sure. Could that be you?

Many professional companies use 3D World Studio in conjunction with Torque. Our users include Northrop Grumman, the British Royal Navy, The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and Prairie Games (Minions of Mirth).

quote:
companies
quote:
Department of Homeland Security

<:o)
they're making good profits, that's for sure.

Mleh...

well, I doubt I'm about to convince discreet to give it away cheap. And anyway, if I get good enough to make some money out of my work, of course I'd sell it.

So, assuming I go for a simpler (non-professional) modeller, what about Anim8or to work with then Pacemaker for the bones?

Or maybe Milkshape or Blender?

Putting it bluntly, those here who do work professionally in development, what did you use before you went professional?

If you can stomache it, the awful UI etc, Blender is pretty good as far as features go. A lot depends on what engine you want to export too.

It's a bit hit or miss which apps support which geometry formats, and which formats are actualy useful for games.

B3D is probably the best general purpose format for games, but limited in the material department if your hoping to do up to date graphics. It does support more blend modes than almost any other common format.

If your going to use a tool that has poor B3D support you may want to purchase Ultimate unwrap 3D, which does good translation between different formats.

THe US dept of Homeland Security? Nice to think they got nothing better to do than make 3d game levels.

DHS is pretty much just a scam to shift money from taxpayers to private companies. What's easier, trying to convince customers they need to purchase your products, or having the government throw them in jail if they don't give you money?