making a living

well some of you guys make a living from indie games. do you make enough to pay bills . is it worth it for you personally?

Well, I don't make a living out of this.
IMHO, it is possible to make a living out of this, but very very unlikely.

However, if you do want to make a couple of thousand pounds a year, that can be done fairly simply. I find it a great help as a pizza and beer fund.

Also don't underestimate applications, I see a lot of questions on this topic regarding games, but see a lot more success with tools, utilities and applications.

I make some money from games but not enough to have a couple of holidays per year and certainly not enough to retire on.

Big money comes from developing your own IP and licensing it to stinking rich corporates.

we..I do belive its possible to make for a living out of indie games...at same time I find out that major of loss came from greedy publishers..man..75% out of profit your game make...I understand that they put a lot of work and effort but is it really 75% out of something whats done by someone else...huh...on another side, if one screensaver was make 65K us$ within 4 months (I cant remember exactly name of it, but it was link about it, here on forums), I guess any well done indie game can make you happy regarding money...I mean, I will not consider seriously peoples whos producing clone over clones and yelling about how hard is to make to get some money out of games....me personally not living from games, but soon will be out something whats considered as a test drive..so I will let you know guys :))

25% of something is better than 100% of nothing. If you think 25% is paultry then go talk to some retailers and see how much they retain.

..well..i will talk if I want to..I didnt ask your suggestions regarding my statements..so, drop your suggestions on personal level somewhere else..

That didnt look like a personal attack to me :o

That was not a personal attack it was a check on reality. Retailers struggle to retain 10% - what do you think the dev gets from that?

well...regarding to GarageGames, they offering 50% for non exclusive and game doesnt have to be done with Torque..and its bigger than 10%, isnt it??

http://www.garagegames.com/solutions/publishing/games/

It is wise to take as much advice as you can get from people already established in the business - you might not like what they have to say but at least be thankfull they are prepared to offer any advice at all. If you think you know better then you should take stock and re-evaluate your situation.

..yeahh..I will..I'm drunk a bit anyway..

Save a beer for me :)

If I lived in a little flat somewhere with no family I might just scrape by, but I depend on my other half to earn some money at the moment while I'm building the business up.

Making a living purely from indie game dev sounds like a nightmare, frankly. I'm somewhat amazed anyone manages it. Respect!

I'm making living, and I'd be making a better living if I hadn't wasted time trying to work with people who either proved unreliable or just vanished into the mists. Worse, some of them have left me having to let others down too, which I hate.

I can't overstate how difficult it is to spot people who will do that. You might think you can spot them a mile away, and you know all the types to avoid, well so do I, and I've still had it a few times.

Having said that, I think the best chance to make a good living IS to parter with someone ( or someones ), but just bear in mind that it's much riskier that way.

Since going back to the lone wolf eff everybody else, I'll do it myself way of working, I'm doing better again.

Surely that depends on what kind of partnership we're talking about? But yeah, if you want to partner with someone you need to have the same drive. If you're trying to revolutionize the world, and he wants to do the lifestyle thing, you're going nowhere.

My last 3 games were Internet collaborations and they worked out well, I must have chosen the correct people. Oz was the most tricky but I wasn't the producer for that. I had to really bust a gut to get Holiday Bonus ready but luckily the main artist worked extremely hard too - thank god, or we would have never got it ready in time.

In my experience (for what it's worth) ppl who shout are better to be avoided. Best way it to communicate through email leave forums for what they are. Ask artists to come up with something in a few days. If they do, then you know they can at least do something in a few days or less. Usually everyone wants to create games.. however: starting a game is fun, finishing a game is hell.. :P

So, what's the drill? The ppl you work with must be willing to go to hell .. :-)

To an extent, of course it does. If the "partnership" is one person paying another person a salary, then it's a completely different situation than two or three people profit-sharing. If it's in-person it's a completely different situation than internet partnerships.

But I don't think you can afford to be complacent even if you think your situation is ideal. Sometimes people don't let you down because they're arseholes ( though sometimes they probably are ) sometimes it's just a case of "things happen". When you're going it alone, and you're depending on someone who is half way through their work, then their sister gets taken ill and they have to drop everything, it's little consolation knowing that he's a nice guy and would have done exactly the same thing if he was working at a supermarket or working for IBM.

I'm just saying that if you're concerned about the prospect of going it alone, it's less of a risk to go it truly alone than it is to rely on anyone, no matter how nice or how reliable they are.

I make 3-4K per annum just by being a hobbyist coder - it's hardly a living but it is nothing to be sniffed at.

I'm not making the slightest bit of money from anything computer-wise at the moment so am just at a regular full-time job and wife is working part time. But in future I do hope to move into making and selling software to either contribute to our income or take the place of it. Not that this is the only thing I may be doing that brings in money, but it would be fun. Respect to those who are managing to do it already.

Or it's just plain dumb luck.

True. In my experience the later never works out. The former might work, if you're lucky.

Hello I quote from

"Game design -Secrets of the sages - 1999 "
pag 368

" you wont' get rich..but you can make a very, very good living "
and then
"Just how much money can a shareware game yeld ?"
" his games are making six figures a year "

what do you think ?

Spiderweb Software.

In a nutshell - a shareware game can hit 6 figures.

The problem is that there are so many ppl creating games, and there're also so many games online just for free.

As a marketeer once said: "If you're not the steam rolling mill, then you're the road."

(I like that quote a lot btw :D)

The 'sages' that make a 'very, very good living' are very, very thin on the ground, I'd imagine.

Spiderweb Software.
Yes,it is

It's nice and very useful to listen to what people have to say about creating indy games for living, but the only way to find out is to try. As long as one just talks and listens to other people talking one simply does not now of one will make it or not. I've tried it once and did not regret it.

Barney

I think I would like at some point to partner some one and go for it. its just finding the right time and right person.

Games development is a lot like professional writing: to make a decent living from either endeavour, you need to target a fanatical niche or create a broad sensation. Marketing and dumb luck play the largest roles.

I think the hardest thing for an indie developer is not coding the software, but getting the exposure to sell their software.

But dont take my word on it, what have I ever sold?

"Ruz" is clearly and blatantly begging to work with me.

Who said anything about 'work'.It sounds more like a lonely-hearts ad :)
Are YOU that right person?

you need to target a fanatical niche

It is also my opinion
I asked already this question

What about niche games ?

Honestly I dont' see any reason for purchasing an Indie FPS or RPG or RTS game
They can not compete with commercial products , not even pricewise
But think for example at "MindRover"
I purchased it 2 years ago, it is still on sales

Also casual games are an opportunity

[oucha - was drunk]

actually I was n't talking about mking games( wink)

> I make 3-4K per annum just by being a hobbyist coder
> - it's hardly a living but it is nothing to be sniffed at.

Yeah of course you do Puki :)

I think that 99% of us couldnt create a sellable game, simply because we never finish the bloody things! :)

Respect to the ones that do! :)

Dabz

No I don't think so. I'm used to recruiting people in a software firm for 9 years so I know a reasonable amount about it. I choose people for my teams that were either professionals or people with a track record and I made them prove themselves first too, all except for Oz where *I* was chosen...