How do you think vista will unfold?

I want to cut a long story short right now. But so far...

- Microsoft has locked security firms out of the system kernel.
- Microsoft has been criticized by the European Union (or whatever) for anti-competitive behavior.
- Microsoft has a retarded idea about the specs of an average computer. (3d graphics in an os? 512mb ram MINIMUM 1gig RECOMMENDED)

I was hoping that it would last, be secure and near perfect. But it sounds like Microsoft wants to eliminate everyone writing software for vista, and make that software themselves. The lockout of security firms proves my suspicion.

It sounds awesome for super-rich businesses, all the different versions. But its disappointing thinking how many more computers will be thrown into landfills in order to keep up with unnecessary requirements and 3dgraphics in the start bar. Microsoft is responsible for all the e-waste in the world. Some linux/unix thingy I read about can run on computers from the 80's - thats older than me!

I read all this crazy tcp/ip stuff, internet communications, viruses, spyware and security holes and think linux won't protect me perfectly - but vista and xp are on 99% of computers and have really bad security... so as you could imagine we'll go through all the new release drama again as vista becomes the new no# 1 target. The xp release was terrible; in a few days some kid had made a undetectable virus that randomly shuts down your computer. Shipping xp with something as crappy as sp1 is just an outstanding display stupidity.

And updating + constant yearly fees just piss me off. I can remember about this time last year when norton 2006 came out. A year on now and 2007 is out - feels like I bought the 2006 one yesterday. I can't believe security firms expect home users to pay hundreds of dollars a year for software that you shouldn't need!
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1. How do you think vista will unfold? Ok/bad/exactly what I said?

2. What do you think security will be like a while after vista comes out?

3. Do you think people will end up buying it anyway?

Send your opinions and lets put the ball in motion! :D

Well, I find the 3D windows a bit bent - I mean, I've seen video footage of people taking a desktop with 4 or 6 Windows - flicking it into 3D, clicking on another window, then flicking the view back to 2D

Now that seems to totally nonce-like to me.

However, I am sort of excited over DX10.

For me, Vista is a good excuse for a brand new computer.

With regard to security - this will depend on how quickly it is hacked or something goes wrong - MS will either come away smiling or not smiling - we'll see on this. I guarantee you though that people will be looking at how Vista can be exploited - regardless of how smug MS are that it wasn't hacked during beta (there actually may be very good reasons - such as people wating for it to be released).

I think it is a wait and see game - personally, I have no real urge to buy Vista - but that is because I am suspicious that DX10 might take a long time to become the norm.

DX10 is the crucial factor for me - if there are only a couple of games that significantly use it - then what is the point of upgrading?

Personally, I don't think Vista will sell that quick. I think a lot of people will be very happy to sit and wait with XP. I think some people may not bother upgrading for 12+ months.

I think it will be a nightmare,

DRM making it so you cant run any program unless you are online.
Increased necessity to be online even for the smallest of tasks like 'google desktop'.

Im absolutely certain that Microsoft intend on banning everyone from making their own programs on Vista.-eventually- but I dont know when.

Like a wet paper napkin... wet with goat and dog urine.

I think it will be the standard OS in 5 years. Then the crowd will start complaining about the next horrible OS to come out of Redmond - and more then likely most of them will be running Vista while doing so.

What he said.

Agreed. The hate on XP was a bit much and I don't think most of it was warranted (especially after SP2.) I'm sure Vista will be similar. Though, due to the lack of any real innovations (aside from DX10) I don't feel the need or urge to upgrade, and I don't think many others will either.

Very poorly, as with most boxes. There will probably be at least one case per unboxing in which a bit of the box is torn off accidentally.
(Has anyone found a way to actually avoid such things?)

I suspect that the installation itself will grow to about two times its original size within moments of starting up thanks to updates and bad software.
Similarly, the My Documents folder will quickly become unmanageable as applications continue to ignore the THREE other places where they could dump their settings without needing admin privileges.


About the next horrible OS... I'm expecting a lot from Vienna. I remember them claiming it to actually have a revolutionary feature. (*GASP!* Maybe merging windows like the GParted Live CD does!).


Something interesting I've noticed:
Windows XP is the one time I've kept the same Windows installation for over 4 years. I guess it's only about 2 since this isn't a 4 year old computer and Windows was silently put to death on the old one. It's still longer than usual, though.
Anyhow, I'm noticing the strangest little problems lately that are not caused by malware and whose symptoms I cannot find reports of anywhere. They seem to simply be an effect of Windows ageing, which doesn't surprise me given the amount of software (and horribly done updates!) that has been passed through it.
I've also come to realize just how horrible XP actually looks -- especially the login screen!


I'm hoping there will be a nice stage of turmoil around the switch to Vista so that a few more people will come to appreciate the alternatives.

Yes. A knife to the stickers and lots of care.

1. Trainwreck waiting to happen.
2. The same as all other Microsoft Operating Systems. Security? What, me worry?
3. Oh, look. A new shiny, expensive toy.

Oh that's valid reasoning. The concerns raised about Windows XP in 2001 where invalid in 2004. No the concerns are so valid that the FBI issued several security warnings about security issues (one could easilly fix themselves), that Microsoft initially refused to address (like that whole UPnP thing).

Haha, I love Windows Vista already, I've just started using it this morning. Have spent hours trying to get my broadband connection to work, it's crashed 3 times now, once fatally.
I can't uninstall stuff properly anymore, it hangs my machine doing so and then the uninstall stuff gets stuck in the menu, and the add/remove programs submenu started doing "Program Not Responding". Still no broadband, but needs a clean reinstall already I think.

I know Vista is still in Beta, but it's not really a very good sign is it?

I still don't see a serious reason to updgrade to Vista.
What does it actually offer?

I suppose they will claim, "Vista is faster, more secure, and feature rich than ever before"
Exactly the same blurb for WinXP and Win98.

Although XP was supposed to be MORE SECURE THAN EVER, Microsoft left the Messenger service running as default so you could be bombarded with pop-ups. Well done indeed!

As for speed, I find Win98 Lite blazingly fast compared to XP. In terms of file operations, startup, and shutdown.
I dread to think how slow and bloated Vista is going to be.
What was the installation size again? 15GB? !!!!!!
What the hell is in there? I can just imagine ..

> WINDOWS VISTA IS INSTALLING ...
> TIME REMAINING: 3 DAYS




It just seems to me MS expect you to compensate for their new super-bloated O/S by upgrading to a Cray Super Computer.
I really dont need such a beast just for Internet access, doc reading, the occasional game, etc ..

I'm not going to pay for a gimmicky 3D interface, DRM, DX10, and more annoyances.

This is an area where the Wii can really screw things up for everyone.

If the Wii is super-popular as expected. If it kills off the ps3 and xbox360 for the most part.

It is possible that the only people that will chose to go to vista will be people who don't know any better...

We'll have a real rift.. It really depends on the corporate world... If they decide not to upgrade to vista cause all their tech guys warn against it, and cause they'll have to buy all new software.

Then it could be really really bad for MS... we are talking both the Xbox360 and Vista bombing out completely. I doubt it would ruin them, but it would force change.

So make sure all your IT chums don't let their bosses go vista..

Maybe MS will start to realized that better is better... not bigger is better.

@DampeS8N - since when does management listen to tech guys? :p They're "the deciders", tech guys are just the lowly creatures hired to plug it all in.

I quite like vista myself, even on my low mid range system its a lot snappyer than XP when it comes to browsing folders with lots of files in.

Office 2007 is kind of weird though and I'm not sure I like it. Might just be that I'm so used to the older versions of Office, and the new one is considerably different.

Vista seems really nice, I just don't trust it with all my important software like 3ds max yet, so I'll wait a few months before I seriously consider using it exclusively.

The funny 3D revolving app browser was quite cool the few times I used it, not sure if it serves a real purpose that makes a difference to every day usage but it wasn't a hardware hog or anything.

rarely do the tech guys stand up to the morons in the high-places... nor do they actually care about the company.

I think the tech guys are getting more and more respect from people these days.

> The funny 3D revolving app browser was quite
> cool the few times I used it, not sure if it
> serves a real purpose that makes a difference
> to every day usage but it wasn't a hardware hog
> or anything.

Of course it's a hardware hog, unless Vista is able to invent extra processing power out of a magic box, your PC is obviously too fast for you to notice the strain it's putting on your resources.

> What was the installation size again? 15GB? !!!!!!
> What the hell is in there? I can just imagine ..

It's crazy to think that Vista is 150 times larger than Win98. My guess is that Vista has secretedly embedded a free DVD rip of the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy somewhere within the system files, which will be unlocked secretly at Christmas 2008 for all users of Vista to enjoy.
Well, it's the only reason I can think of for Vista needing 14 more GB than XP.

It doesn't matter how bad of a train wreck Vista is. 5 years from now 80% of the windows market will be running it anyway, simply because Ms won't sell you any other version anymore, and any new system will come with Vista preinstalled.

Personally I think Vista is a very bad idea all around, but MS has a lot more marketing power than I do. :-)

The bad thing for consumers (and especially hobby programmers like most of us), is that microsoft's long-term vision is to make the PC a boxed microsoft solution, rather than a general purpose computer. More and more DRM, harder and harder to run 'unsigned' or 'untrusted' software, etc. Especially since they see Linux and the open source market as a big threat to their business, they are slowly but steadily trying to make it harder and harder to run those 'dangerous' programs made by people who haven't ponied up Microsoft's 'protection' money.

> If they decide not to upgrade to vista cause all their tech guys warn against it

Tech guys always warn against upgrading anything - so they are never listened to. (they don't want to upgrade since installing anything requires retesting everything, but if some marketing slob wants a shiny bauble...)

See.. there is Mac, and Linux, which are finally at a point where they can begin to compete.

People have a choice now. And not picking Windows will become a better and better choice as time goes on.

It may cost more to have a mac initially.. but as windows becomes more and more grubby and drm-y it'll quickly become better to not have it.

The only reason people are stuck with windows now is cause most things weren't out on linux and mac.. and the macs cost so damn much.... but now the prices aren't that different anymore... raw speed isn't the only factor anymore..

That's only because the newest OSs are always pushed onto us. I'm saving up for a new rig
in about a year. What do you think will be preloaded onto it? Vista.

I got so turned off by using the Vista beta, I changed all my 3 home computers to Apple iMacs - and very nice they are too.

I'm not keen on going to Vista simply because my current set up represents long hours tweaking and testing a myriad of apps and I've got it all working just so.

In fact I'm still using W2000 because XP's activation pissed me off so much - I had hardware issues when I bought the machine, requiring various swapouts. I finally had it all working at 2am when XP informed me I now needed to ring my local MS rep to convince him that I should be allowed to run XP. Grr.

It's not. It's in Release Candidate 2 stage (well, officially it's RTM now, but the most publically accessible version is still only RC1) - you are highly advised to grab RC1 or RC2 if you can find it (build 5744).


No, that's just the free space needed during installation. Final size is about half that.


What delusional fool expects that?!? Hahaha.


I think you'll find that hidden somewhere in their contracts is a little clause about how the boos out ranks them.


I think your typical 3D accellerator card these days can handle the rotation of a few square textures without any strain whatsoever.

BTW I have the full Windows vista ultimate and full Office 2007 installed in a 30GB partition, and in total with some other stuff they are using 8.6GB

No where near 15GB just for vista. And I really don't think OSX is any better than XP, requiring more resources to get a similar responsive desktop experience.

My Vista RTM installation is using 9.1GB after a roughly fresh Ultimate Version install. About 1.5GB of that is the swap file, and another 100 - 200MB is stuff I've downloaded to the desktop.

Im pretty happy with how its been running, Startup is way way quicker than a fresh XP installation. Vista seems slow at first boot but thats because its optimizing itsself. Moving programs around so that the most accessed are on faster parts of you HDD and whatnot. Something like that anyway. I dont really like how the new start menu's Programs menu works. Expanding in the same space instead of spanning out onto the desktop is a bid lame and makes it kind of hard to navigate. The whole O.S. in general seems alot smoother than XP, I still notice areas where its no so streamlined, if you're used to XP and the Properties menu where you can change wallpaper and such then your going to have a new learning curve coming your way. For users new to Windows it would probably be easier than the previous XP way.

Havn't played with gaming, Only using nVidia drivers for RC2. Hopefully they release some RTM ones. Fresh boot memory usage amazes me, 448MB. I have 104MB out of 1500MB free, about 1100MB is used for caching? Hopefully thats freed up when I load a game.

So far it hasnt crashed once, XP didnt either, but for a RTM O.S. with RC2 drivers I'm pretty happy with how its running.

My Vista is 7.4 GB, half what I thought but still unnecessarily large. It took 40 seconds in total to addup the bloat inside the directory when I right clicked and selected properties.

It stopped at one point on 4.2GB but 5 seconds later continued. Vista obviously needs a bit of time to unlock all it's hidden spyware files in order for it to calculate the total for you.

I'm quite enjoying Vista at the moment, once you've turned off all the crap it looks kinda like XP and for me personally, the old problems in XP were getting kind of stale, it's about time we had a new generation of bugs to encounter and experience.

Variety in life is just what everyone needs.

Wow. Cool. Only 1/3 of your harddrive for the OS. Just enough room for Neverwinter Nights 2 and Dark Crusade. Hope you didn't want to do anything else with your computer.

My old windows 3.1 installation (including all drivers, etc.) could be zipped up to 6 megabytes.

its a 250gb HD :P I just made a new small partition to dual boot and play with vista in. bit remature to take vista too seriously.

Won't get the joys of using Vista as I moved to Linux as my main OS just before XP came out, I have win98 on a small partition to play some of my older games, but rarely do anymore.

> Which I'm sure is really useful if you're playing
> it in Iraq, but less so in sensible countries.

Nah, in Iraq you don't need an X-Box to play games. Just step outside in the streets and hey presto you're already in your very own Medal Of Honour first person shooter.

Yeah.. all the games on the Xbox pretty much take place in Iraq or some other dirt wasteland... or it fuedal japan... or space.

Or in your living room where normal people play consoles :P

I'm running Vista Ultimate RTM Build 6000 as my main OS. Vista is lush, fast, and sexier than Kirsty Gallagher naked ;>P.

When I first installed it, installation took about 20 minutes and it took 11.2gb of hd space once installed. That's minor for me as I have 2 400GB Maxtors installed.

I gave it my Amon test by installing everything I could get my hands on. All my games were installed, all apps etc etc. I ended up with about 200 Gig of files and vista still didn't slow to a crawl. After uninstalling and reinstalling just like I do with XP, Vista stayed fast and didn't crash.

I had a problem though! Vista is fast, and when I installed the GForce 7950GX2 drivers, Vista became the ultimate in ultimates. SPEED, SPEED, SPEEEEEEEED!

Microsoft are on a winner with Vista imho. All you haters can't accept that MS creates the best in software and delivers advanced solutions for todays computers.

Linux is a heap of crap, MacOS is slow and weird and to me, XP is now an outdated OS.

Viva La revolution :)

Either that or it only updates it's tally on every checked folder, not every checked file - and one particular folder had tonnes of very small files (inf dir, mayhaps?). But let's not be sane here, shall we?!?

Lol excellent joke Amon. Vista sucks. Theres no god damn way I'm paying $150+ per computer to stay up to date (that'd be $450 for my house). Ubuntu will probably do for me, but all systems come with windows xp so even when I chose to go for linux I'm still forced to waste money on useless garbage.

However I did read somewhere on the bbc, that some open-source freak managed to get a refund for his copy of windows xp that came packaged with his computer since he wasn't going to use it. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6144782.stm)




I'm planning on buying a dell laptop :D I am SOOOO trying this! Its just retarded to charge me for crappy software I'll never use, I'm not paying for something just because its the standard.

Not all :)
You can buy prebuilt bare-bones PCs from some retailers (like NCIX), or build your own, or (since you like Linux) I recommend that you check out System 76: http://www.system76.com/
I haven't used any of their stuff, but other people say they are really good and use hardware that likes Linux.

Several people have succesfully challenged the cost for the OEM windows installation on a computer that they had no intention of using... Sued microsoft in small claims court over the forced bundling, and won a refund.

you can buy self configured PC's without windows if you want them. Last time I looked you saved about $60-$80 if you removed windows from your spec.

> Several people have succesfully challenged the cost for the OEM windows installation on a computer

Was that recently? Back when MS was doing the All or pay for all anyway stunt I could see this as valid, but with the court decision some time back (how many years ago was that?) I don't see how the case can be made any longer.

Vista is the last ultimate OS Microsoft has and probably will ever make. Next Windows will be a desktop running on Linux, on this you will be able to run all Windows aplications securely and also have the benefit of running most of Linux aplications as well.

My new PC WILL lesson Vista into a snotball.