ATTN. Skidracer or others from BRL

I bought Blitz 3D and have found it to be not quite what I wanted. I've done some reading up and think blitz plus might be nearer to what I'd like to use.

I am contemplating installing the demo of it which I think stands at v1.11 or thereabout.

I have read that the demo is currently limited only by size in some way, whereas previously it was restricted by time, some have said neither is right but could not say what is right.

Can you verify exactly what limits the demo does impose please as it's not clear as to what the correct info might be.

I'm just trying to gather enough info to know what to expect and not have any unforeseeable issues arise while trying the demo. I want to make sure blitz plus demo has absolutely the best chance to shine and convey what it can do.

Are there any plans afoot to release a greater numbered version as a demo so that any bug that is now addressed is not going to mar the demos chance to perform?

If there were and it wasn't likely to be too far away I feel it would perhaps be wiser to wait and see what such a version was like.

Of course if the bugs fixed since the demo version have not made any significant improvements then I could proceed right away.

BRL know both versions well, what would be the best advice for gaining the best possible impression of the product?

blitzMAX + MaxGUI. Do not get BlitzPlus at the moment. [edit] AT ALL [/edit]

*waits for BRL to pop up*

being both a B+ and MaxGUI user, I second 'MaxGUI'.

Things being a bit more strict compared to B+ only takes you a few days, up to a week, after that you're completely used to it. Even if you don't use classes, functionpointers, pointers and all the other potentially 'scary' stuff, at least you'll like incbin and the OGL 2d.
(you might not like the IDE and the manual tho ^_^)

I second the Max approach. You'll more likely get an official response to your question by emailing Blitz support.

If I were ever to be interested in Max it would be quite a while after it had it's own in house 3d module. Since BRL indicate it's intended to be a modular product, then waiting until it has at least those modules which have so far been announced makes some sense. Spending any time on investigating it at all before that time does not make obvious sense for my situation.

It's quite possible that the complete Max Modular System product might not fit as well as I would like, of course we can't know that or even hazard a guess as things stand just now. I have a feeling I might not like Max as I am not entirely thrilled by the newer coding style that more recent offerings promote. In short, there's less in it to attract me, paying more for that "less" would be something of a nonsense.

My interest is limited to complete and available product alone. I have one, and am quite possibly interested in investing in the other one.

A little confused by that. MaxGUI is an up-to-date and better supported version of BlitzPlus. Surely the status of the 3d module is irrelevant? Even if it never came out at all, you'd still have an up-to-date and better supported version of BlitzPlus in the form of MaxGUI.

"You'll more likely get an official response to your question by emailing Blitz support."

Darn, I got the impression that in general these forums were here as some sort of support scheme. What you say seems to question that. Thanks for the heads up, it honestly never seemed any other way than the impression I'd got. I feel foolish for even allowing that thought to cross my mind now.

Hmm... there's food for thought there alright. Maybe the cleverly worded stuff is not for me after all...

BMax has the advantage of being able to create a smaller program size... BUT the disadvantage of having greater system requirements to run it. I can run ALL B+ programs on the bargain basement Laptop my company gave me. Can't run ANY BMax so far... B3D without going beyone 640X480 is dead... (I told you bottom line) I would use B+ if you want backwards compatibility.

(tu) Cygnus:

"Do not get BlitzPlus at the moment."

Well, if not at the moment, then when would be a better time?

I really don't think Max is for me. I'd not want to wait until plus is no longer around. If it were to turn out that I may like Max later then it would still be there to buy, would it not?

Rook Zimbabwe:

Yes! Quite! Backwards comp for an older machine or two would be seriously useful given some of the hardware here that must remain in use for the foreseeable future. They are not all old, but one or two are and are not going to be easy to replace.

"Do not get BlitzPlus AT ALL". I'm sure it was fine in it's day but BMax is better in so many ways and is getting more of BRL's attention right now too.

I updated my statement. max really isn't that scary, plus it's cross platform.

edit:
""Do not get BlitzPlus AT ALL". I'm sure it was fine in it's day but BMax is better in so many ways and is getting more of BRL's attention right now too."
edit ends:

Well that solves it then, "no sale" at all I guess.

Seems a rather unsatisfying outcome though.

(Edit was to add clarity as to what I was replying to by quoting it.)

What do you have against Max? The only downside to Max is the slightly higher system requirements.

Why lock your choice to only BlitzPlus only to later replace it with Max. You could get Max now and work on whatever program you intended to make all the while getting up to speed on all of the features it offers that B+ doesn't.

SculptureOfSoul:

"What do you have against Max?"

If asked I would not put it in those terms, but one is a mature product and the other isn't yet. Among other things I'm not all that impressed with.

I have little or no doubt that Max can appeal to a wide audience and that for them it's exactly what they want. I just don't happen to want the same things.

I'm just wondering what anyone has against me buying plus. I now got the distinct feeling that this could be the case too. I would in no way claim to understand it though.

Jeez... BlitzPlus is $60 only. Hardly an amount anyone will so dearly miss. Just get BlitzPlus and try it out. It's a good system (especially for the price) but don't expect to create all dancing all singing (GUI-wise) applications with it. For quick utilities, standard GUI apps and 2D games that will run on almost anything it's a pretty good buy. I have all BRL products and never regretted purchasing any of them. Each has it's own position in the greater scheme of things and is potentially quite useful. One just has to learn their limits and that takes time. You can't really judge the BRL languages based on a demo alone.

Barney

Barnabius:

I'd hardly disagree with anything you mentioned there.

When you said "For quick utilities, standard GUI apps and 2D games that will run on almost anything it's a pretty good buy."

It espescially ticked a box for me and what I want to do. It's exactly what I'd concluded from researching it.

I am looking to make a standard GUI app and maybe a few of them. I'd like it if they would run on all the hardware I have here at present.

I'm just part of a differnet audience for the product range.

I got B3d and learned from buying it, that I might be a little more careful over the details before buying plus. I dont flat out regret buying b3d, but it's not made me any sort of evangelist for it either.

Anyway, events are overtaking us now as BRL have in fact recently upped the demo to 1.43 and that addresses some of the things I wanted some clarification on. Had I just gone ahead and installed the older one the it may have meant I could not then try this one for all I know. I still got no idea what restrictions there may be in place with it though. If it were time limited then it's possible that the mechanismm for that could prevent a further update if I was not quite ready to purchase. I've seen that happen with plenty of other software; where I didn't quite like the demo enough to buy, so offered feedback, uninstalled it, and then went back after allowing a version update or two to happen, tried and failed to install the new demo as it claimed it had expired, had no idea if they fixed up the bits I didn't like in the ealrier version due to that.

Authors almost always say that we should check with them for specific details before going ay further. Well, here I was! We all know how that went.

The Max gui for example simply volunteers how it gets over previous demo limits right there on it's part of the web page. Seems a much more realistic approach to it all frankly. I was just hoping for more of that really. <shrug>

Oh well.

Sure BlitzPlus will make 2D games that run on anything, which is fine if they are free games, but forget making a game in it that can make decent money as it just doesn't have the graphical capabilities to compete with BMax, and the modern games that make money are full of fancy 3D card effects.

If you want GUI in Blitz3D, get WinBlitz3D.

If you want superior 2D power for Blitz3D, get SpriteCandy.

That's nonsense. If you're not going to be using the 3D module anyway (BlitzPlus has no 3D), why would the availability of a 3D module change your current situation?

2 years ago.

BlitzPlus isn't a mature product, just an old one.

If you're just looking to write a GUI app (ie. not something that requires OpenGL / DirectX) then BlitzMAX has lower minimum specs than BlitzPlus. BlitzMAX applications can run without DirectX installed, BlitzPlus cannot - also BlitzMAX has a vastly superior compiler that delivers smaller and faster binaries. And take it from someone who used to develop business applications in BlitzPlus - you want the additionall OO features that BlitzMAX offers.

If they're just free games anyway, what difference does it make that less than 1% of your pretend customers won't be able to run it on an 8 year old computer?

BlitzMAX works on my 4 year old TabletPC.

I've yet to see one valid argument as to why blitzplus is better for GUI apps (what polygoon is wanting to do) than blitzmax. Polygoon, you're concerned about an 'updated' product. You can think of Blitzmax as BlitzPlus version 2.0. It's simply better at what it does compared to B+. Now for strictly gui apps I wouldn't even fiddle with blitz products, and I'm not sure as to why you would unless it's heavily graphics related or game related. I'd just get a free version of one of the visual studio express products and whip up quick gui apps there.

I second the summary that Barnabius gave of BlitzPlus's benefits. The number of Windows PC without DirectX 1 or above installed is completely trivial, even at the lower end of the spectrum, so BlitzPlus is ideal for maximum compatibility if you want your game or app to run on the maximum number of PCs.

I believe the latest demo's limits are just:

· Number of times you can run the IDE (30 -- but you can run as many programs as you like while it's open);
· No online help files;
· No executable creation.

No, get BlitzMax instead.

From a programming point of view, using OOP in BlitzMax actually reduces your code and will simplify things. Because you can use one type with update, draw etc and share variables and such - rather than separate functions. Look at the excellent tutorials that have been written for BlitzMax.

From a graphics point of view, when you've used alpha blended sprites you won't want to go back to sprites with jagged edges.

And ofcourse when the 3d module arrives you won't have to learn a new language.

How do you reckon? How is BlitzPlus more compatible than BlitzMAX without Max2D? I know at least one computer (the TabletPC in my signiture) where BlitzMAX is more compatible than BlitzPlus (where the IDE often fails to render text properly unless I explicitly disable advanced text services).

While BlitzPlus might be better on pre-XP computers (without advanced text services), BlitzMAX is most certainly the best choice for XP or better.

Nothing wrong with Blitz+. I have all BRL products and Blitz+ still has its uses (mostly cos its so compatable). Also, GUIde (UI editor) works best on Blitz+.

I like BlitzMax because the language is so good.

WinBlitz3D might be an alternative option for you (its free!).

Also, for the record I also use PureBasic for DLLs and some applications.

Yes PureBASIC is still best for application writing at the moment - BlitzMax for games.

Steve Elliott:

"Yes PureBASIC is still best for application writing at the moment - BlitzMax for games."

I'm starting to think you possibly have something there.

It's an ordinary desktop type app, but it needs gfx too (uses pre-rendered maps of various locations around the globe etc), and PureBasic seemed a bit light in the loafers for some features that one should reasonably be able to take for granted these days.

I felt that if a language could handle games and GUI was normal, reasonable, and even if a bit bog standard looking, then that would most liklely be fine for what I want.

I'll have to have another trawl through the PB specs and see if it indicates any major gotchas.

Good call, thanks.

I think the choice between B+ and BMax is purely based on what you want to do next year, rather than now. If B+ is only to be used for a very small/lowprofile app then you can happily buy B+ now (tho you'll miss the incbin), but if you intend to work on that same app for more than a year, then I'd advice Bmax+MaxGUI.

CS_TBL:

Well yes, and thanks for the advice.

A point to consider that I'd not mentioned but which is still in need of some consideration:

B+ 60$
Max+GUI $110

We're talking far too close to twice the price to ignore that.

Anyway, I don't object to spending money where it'll do some real good, quite the reverse, but I do like to know I'm making a decision that is as wise as I can get it to be.

I just looked over the PureBasic Demo, I have to admit to feeling a bit smitten on first glance. A visit to their support forums was also pleasant too. I tried a couple of sample programs from there and they were just fine. Reading the truly excellent manual was actually quite fun (might have been the novelty value I suppose). I have to say it's like night and day to be honest.

I have an odd feeling I know where it's going to be at for what I wanted to do.

It's got to go through all the same testing I was going to do with BlitzPlus of course and I'm not sure that will present any kind of problem at all based on what I've seen so far. Lastly, it's $100, so not too bad in that area either. Some limitations in demo, but sensibly an 800 line limit; you could try anything you fancied for as long as you like with that going on. No time limit and certainly no now you see it, but after 30 tries you don't. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that I am not entirely thrilled to see it done that way. A personal preference only of course.

We shall see what happens in further demo testing; To borrow a well worn phrase, I may be some time!

If that does not go well I guess I could always install and try out the BlitzPlus demo afterwards.

Until the Maxgui has fleshed out, I would say Purebasic.
I love blitz but maxgui has only 'basic' gui abilities.

Nothing wrong with adding PB to one's arsenal... I use it in much the same way Beaker describes.


Of course, without Max2D, that would be true... I was assuming some graphical capability was required.

Barnabius appears to be the only person here who hasn't gone off topic. To recap - BlitzPlus is cheaper and assuming you want some graphical capabilities (not just GUI) also more compatible. BlitzPlus has a software rendering option too, something BlitzMax does not. BlitzPlus' GUI is good for -simple- things, not full blown apps.

The only thing I would like to point out is that BlitzPlus has no 3D capabilities, I only mention this because you seem to talk about B+ as if it's a step up from B3D, which it is not. BlitzPlus = 2D + GUI, Blitz3D = 2D + 3D.