How well has your game done?

If anyone who's had a game published could post some general units sold/sales info I'd appreciate it. It can be as accurate or vague as you want, as long as it's valid.

I'll start off.

Game Name: TBA
Genre: Puzzle
Date Game Completed: Projected Nov 10th
Unit's Sold: 0
Total Sales: $0

I don't have that sort of info. I didn't go down the portal route.

I will probably next time, though. New game should be done by Christmas.

All I can tell you is how much I made colletively, from Blitz 2001-2005. Something in the region of $55,000-$60,000.

The LoveChess's made a 6 figure number.

My details are on gameproducer.net but they are old. I'll update them.

Game Name: Xmas Bonus
Genre: Match-3 Puzzle
Developed in: Blitz Plus
Development time: hard to say as I didn't keep a log, but probably 3 months solid.
Date Game Completed: Dec 2005 (a year after I bought Blitz Plus).
Sold Where: Big Fish Games, Reflexive Arcade, Cloverleaf Games
Units Sold: 230
Total Sales: Hard to say as not all were at full price of $19.95, if they were it would have been $4588.50
Total Costs: $182 (excluding all of publisher's own costs). This was stuff like Blitz Plus/Protean, art, domain name/web hosting.
Plans: To relaunch on as many portals as possible this year, to sell myself on my own website (at 50% off) and also to produce a sequal imaginatively called Xmas Bonus 2 (actually this is a ploy because if it's a sequal, most people think the first one must have done alright).

Can't publish figures on Easter Bonus yet, I've asked the publisher.

Next year I'll publish my XB2 figures AND the secret game that I'm developing now which is due out beta next week.

'Love Chess' seriously makes me wonder if people should concentrate on games with a sex theme/content.

I reckon just putting sex into a game would 'up' it's sales and puzzle games are ideal for that.

"Grey Alien" - I suggest you produce an adult puzzle-type game and put this to the test - for speed, just convert something you have already done.

Grey should give us all a "Sexy Bonus".

Um.... or maybe not? :)

Sex themed games do seem popular though :)

*echo*

puki: haha, you could be onto something there - maybe you'd buy the media afterwards, thus saving me some development costs.

While I don't produce games, my utilities have faired pretty well.

The data for my latest is a follows:

Utility Name: Automator Virtual Input
Platform: Mac OS X
Genre: Automator Actions Extension
Developed in: BlitzMax/Applescript
Development time: 2 months off and on.
Date Completed: 07/2006
Sold Where: Own website, getting most traffic from the official Apple Mac OS X Download site and MacUpdate.
Units Sold: Around 50.
Total Sales: About £700
Total Costs: Including hosting, BlitzMax + GUI, shareit service charges etc: £150
Downloads/Sales ratio: 1-2% region.
Plans: Major update required, bug fixes, Intel native version needed, Hopefully get back onto the frontpage of apple download site and mac update for a boost in downloads.

Helps with the pizza and beer fund no end!

@puki: making games for a well defined,and badly served, niche sells. Adult games is a niche, just like computer games based on rare boards games (eg. Swedish Chess) is . Wargames is also a perfect niche. Puzzle games are flooded, and a puzzle game with a sexual oriented skin wont help you much.

Somebody once said: Get big, get niche or get out.

Interesing GA. I could post some framework stats then:

Utility Name: Grey Alien BlitzMax Game Framework
Developed in: Blitz Max
Development time: 270 hours
Date Completed: ongoing, currently at V1.01. V1.02 out soon!
Units Sold: >50!
Total Sales: >£1400
Total Costs: £45 on BMax + Paypal and Share-IT fees, plus I have to pay VAT on UK and EU sales.
Plans: To continue development and improve docs and example code. To expand with a platform game engine.
Users: Most notable so far is Gellyware who made Sudoku May Gold with it and got it on Real Arcade. Also I'm about to release a new game (next week) made with it, with another to follow by Christmas. Then next year more games, plus some of my other users have got cool stuff in the pipeline.

That's cool that you sold 50 copies already Mr Alien.

Great Job grey!

Thanks guys, yeah I was never writing it originally with selling it in mind, it was just for me, but then one day I got this inspiration to sell it as I was sure that other people would find it useful, and they do. I did spend a long time documenting it and writing an FAQ though once I decided to sell it. Anyway, I really celebrated at the 50 mark, now I'm gunning for 100 ... :-D

SeXmas Bonus? No, I agree with Knotz. Besides, a quick search on google proves that there are already plenty of sex-oriented puzzle games.

Can anyone else give some more info. I'm most curious to see how other games have done. I know Naked War is gonna do exceptionally well.

Hi,

I’ve been rolling around numbers from this thread and others where you’ve kindly posted numbers on your game sales(and I do appreciate this very much), but as much as I move the numbers around, I can’t figure out how they add up to a good income.

Numbers I’ve seen (or, in a couple of cases, believe I remember seeing):

Xmas Bonus: approximated 3 months work(which would be 500hrs?), with 230 sales (not all at full price), $4600 total sales (but most through portals) for approx $1500 to you?? (is this close?)

Easter Bonus: 3 weeks with overtime/200hrs, and 250 sales

Holiday Bonus(?)

Framework: 270 hrs and >50 sales (approx $2500?)

Oz - 500 hours on contract, unspecified return


So, does all of this represent a years worth of work? Is 30% a fairly standard take for the portals? All in all, that looks like a <$20k return. I guess I’m just thinking that this seems like a big leap of faith to take when you have a family. And moreover, at this point, continuing down this path seems like another leap of faith after you’ve had a year and posted these sort of average looking results.

I guess what I’m asking, is, What am I missing? How secure were you financially before going independent, and how much of what we’re seeing is part of a longer term plan of building up a library to generate revenue in the future?

I quit my job 4 weeks ago to pursue indie development. (note that I played poker professionally for the last couple of years, so I could walk back into a casino and pick back up if I wanted to) At preset, I am doing this with a friend who suggested doing a Match-3 game because they seemed to have an enduring popularity. However, the further into the project we go, the more I look around and see how saturated the market is and how much more innovative some of the new match-3’s are, and I wonder if this is really worth it. More than that, it seems the market is quickly becoming crowded by not-quite-indie’s(at least in the traditional sense) who are making incredibly polished games. Not that I don’t think we could achieve that with time, but I believe our buffer funding is less than what it should have been, and our time horizon a little on the short side.

I would appreciate any feedback (from Grey or others).

And again, you’ve been very generous by revealing your results, Grey. I hope I’m not being too nosy by asking these questions.


Thanks,
John

Name: Animated Football Playbook
Genre: App
Date Completed: August 2005
Unit's Sold: 30
Total Sales: $150
Development time: 10 hours.
Costs: $5. for some CD's. delivered in person.

$15 an hour. That's better than what I normally make.

Depends if you mean the portal's take or your take. If you mean do the portals take 30%, no. If you mean do they give you 30% then yes, that's not unusual, though you can do better if you have something they want or if you're just particularly good at negotiating.

I don't think anyone claimed they worked. Here are some statistics for new high-tech companies. Two years after being founded 5% have become successful businesses (traditionally sold to Microsoft or IBM), another 5% are barely breaking even, and 90% have gone bankrupt. Now these stats are obtained from venture capital companies, so they represent the ideal starting point for a company, with available funds and a professional board of directors.

So your observation about betting against those odds, when you have a family and other financial obligations is correct.

A budget, for starters. Once you get the numbers down on paper, you can figure out how much money you need, and lay down a strategy for how to achieve this. Our initial budget is about $220.000 USD, for the 13 months, which is covered by venture capital. If you have less than that, there's definitely something you're missing.

I wouldn't bet on match three type games myself.

What you need is a fresh idea and a niche market that you can dominate quickly. You don't necessarily need to be totally original but you do need an understanding for competition parameters and value disciplines, and which ones you think gives you the edge over the competition.

I'm shocked!!! - I would of seriously thought it would of been £60,000 at least, not dollars from 2001-2005, especially with the amount of games you've release GfK.

Is it really that bad for indie game makers? - I'm not saying it's a terrible amount of money, it's a good chunk but it's not what you'd call a proper living wage either.

It's good that people are being honest though and not artificially inflating the figures.

Yes but people looking for venture capital are often just looking to steal the money and go "bankrupt".

I don't know how it works in the US, but in Denmark you don't (normally) get venture capital without losing a portion of the control of your company (either as stock options, positions on the board of directors or both). Most venture capitalists aren't stupid (anymore). Also if you do go bankrupt you lose any and all ownership of your idea, and they will find someone else who can capitalize on it.

...No offense, but you probably should have done the basic research ("If anyone who's had a game published could post some general units sold/sales info I'd appreciate it") before quitting your job. :-?

Kind of dangerous betting the farm if you don't even know the odds up front...

The bottom line: "can you make enough money to live on?" is a "yes", but unfortunately only a select few manage to do so, the majority if up for a rude awakening.

Can you do it? Possibly -- Do you have what it takes? Unique and great games can do extremely well, but if it's just another clone in a long line of clones the chances are not in your favour.

Thank you for the responses.

Gabriel, I did mean to ask if they take 70%, just careless wording on my part.

Flameduck, I guesse I don't know that Grey actually claimed that those numbers worked. But then, the budget thing was sort of what I was asking about. I was wondering how long he(and anyone else in a similar position) expected to live on those sorts of returns while building a business.

and yes, if I knew a month ago what I know now, I wouldn't have agreed to a Match-3 game, but we're in somewhat deep at this point, and are presently considering whether to buy art and move forward or not.


xlsior, I am assuming you read the part where I can easily pick that job back up. Really though, I lost my day job a long time ago when the internet poker bill passed the house and I started taking my money offline; live poker just isn't the same. With that said, yes, I should've done more research. I made a mistake.


I do have a couple of non-clone ideas for the future that I think I'll be able to get around to, and it's possible this match-3 experiance will turn out ok dispite a few current doubts. I just wanted some feedback on how the professionals' thought proccess went during the early stages of your company.

Thanks,
John

Grey Alien - I've got ten years in the adult industry. I'm sure you were mostly joking, but if you actually consider an adult-themed puzzle game, hit me up.

SpaceAce

Thanks to those who made me see again, it's possible to make real money. When I watch the latest gen console games then I'm sometimes discouraged. But now I realize, it doesn't have to be latest super tech to be sold at remarkable quantities.

With this thought in mind I just added some super features :) to my project.

Grass looks good. Looking forward to seeing it in motion.

http://www.indiegamepod.com/

These podcasts are great listening

Nope. Just has to be a racing game.

I'm not sure if they're correct but caiman.us reports over 55,000 downloads for my game, BattleTanks II. Total profits: $500 in prize money (no more, since the game is available for free).

Unfortunately, I just learned that someone going by the name of "John Hoffman" (he claims to be the co-author of my game) has given gamestrend.com permission to distribute a modified "advergame" version of BattleTanks II, for $500.

If you do a google search for BattleTanks II, you'll find many many downloads of my game with an installer message: "Distributed by GamesTrend with kind permission of Mr. John Hoffman".

"John Hoffman" is obviously some sort of scammer, since he certainly did not co-author my game. I wish I could have had that extra $500, but unfortunately what's done is done.

I'm currently communicating with GamesTrend about this "Mr. John Hoffman", and hopefully I can at least stop the scammer from getting credit for my game.

o_O

Hey keep us posted on this 'John Hoffman'. Get Puki on the case - we need info on him!

Yeah, I'll do that.


True. Unfortunately, "John Hoffman" is a somewhat common name, so tracking this person down would be difficult. And for all I know it could be a fake name.

Puki! We need you! ;)

Just remember to bring the machete when you do catch up with him.

Good news! The kind people at GamesTrend were very quick to reply, and very helpful:



So it looks like everything is going to be ok :)

Cool. I wouldn't hold yer breath on that refund, tho. :/

Mr. Hoffman is guilty of Wire Fraud, which is a federal offense. Report him to the authorities.

So it's looking like the ideal game for market is a slightly seedy match-3?

How about: Red Hot XXX Bonus?

Red Hot XXX Boners surely?

Maybe Bone-Us?

I'd think that since he gave 'permission' to a distributor to spread the game, that they would have a means of contacting him? If nothing else, the distributor didn't do their homework and you could take them to (small claims?) court for unauthorized distribution of your intellectual property.

John J: Pretty crappy but good luck to sorting it out.

SpaceAce: It's a posibility, we'll see. Busy at the moment though. I just know that XXX sells. hense my joke's about Boner Bonus.

jtollison78: I went from a very well paid IT consultant/Delphi Developer (ran my own company) to making games. I actually "trained" in making games for a year before I release Xmas Bonus. Then most of the next year I was making games(x4) and my framework. I also did some IT work to keep some money coming in and my partner works. But yeah, basically I have not made much money AT ALL. For example, last time I checked I made less than 50p per hour net profit whilst making Easter Bonus. The framework has made me over £5 an hour which is OK but not stellar!

But since those figures were posted I've made a bit more on all the games due to rereleasing Xmas and Easter Bonus + more sales of the framework and OZ etc. Also I've got Adsense revenue, affiliate sales and a completely different business on the go. Meanwhile I juggled loans etc and convinced my partner to let me carry on as it was all part of a master plan. Now I'm making a game for Big Fish games on a contract and they are paying me very nicely thanks. Can't disclose.

Basically, like any new business (as Flameduck says) I had to be prepared to make bugger all money for an "investment" period while I improved my skills, made contacts etc until I landed a killer job. I'm confident the next game will be a no.1 hit on the portals and that's not bull. One of my games already got in the top 10 at BFG. Then after that it's onwards and upwards!

If anyone wants to give this business a try then good luck to you. But make sure you have very low overheads and no family to support and be prepared to make not much money for a long time and to keep on improving your skills until you "make it". That's my advice anyway...

the only person allowed to be called Hoffman is David Hasslehoff
a.k.a. 'the hoff' 'hoffman' 'hoffmeister'

Thank you for the response Grey.

I have lived on about $1200/month for a few years while trying (with some success) to build a poker bankroll. So, I’m used to living reasonable light, it’s just that I have to believe that things at least have to potential to go really well in the future. I also hate the real work world and have a lot of motivation to avoid it.

Since my original questions, we’ve decided to take our game in a different direction which will lower development time and art costs, and increase originality (and we won’t lose much of our original 3 ½ weeks worth of code in the process.) I’m very happy with the change.

As for the future, I’m honestly not sure whether I want to pursue casual Indie game development or not. I’ll see how this project plays out, and consider other options.

Thank again,
John

How's your power bankroll then, pretty big? Sounds more viable than Indiegame development to be honest.

I played proffesionally for just over 2.5 years. The first 1.5 included online play and I made steady gains. The last year did not include online play as I'm more paranoid than most and moved quickly to take my money offline when the new anti-gambling bill first passed the house a little over a year ago(in the US). In that last year, I played live and broke even, maintaining my 'roll but not growing it any. There is simply no comparison between playing 30-35 hands/hr live and playing 400 hands/hr online.

So with my online play prematurely cut short by a annoying law("annoying" = more restraint than I am usually able to muster), and my live results being less than stellar, I'm looking at other options. I might redouble my effort and go back to poker, but not before I explore a couple of options.

John

fascinating. good luck.

Well anything has the potential to go really well. The odds just aren't terribly great (which probably doesn't matter much to a professional gambler tho').

Developing video games (particularly indie ones where you have no money) is a lot more hard work than you seem to think.

Here are some numbers (not mine games though)

$113,160.53 Indie Games Sales (by Cliff Harris)
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/09/28/11316053-indie-game-sales/

GL Golf, Over $28,000 Total Sales
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/10/16/sales-statistics-gl-golf-over-28000-total-sales/

Tribal Trouble, over $60,000 sales
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/04/06/sales-stats-tribal-trouble/

Pharaohs’ Curse Gold, $2000 Yearly Sales
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/09/20/sales-statistics-pharaohs-curse-gold-2000-yearly-sales/

More sales and details here:
http://www.gameproducer.net/category/sales-statistics/

The $113,160.53 stated above, the link mentions "not just for one year".

How long??

Don't know, but for example - his Democracy game sold about $42900 in 8 months:
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/02/02/gameproducernet-starts-presenting-game-sales-statistics/

Cliff has produced a multitude of games and each ones get better. Note that he had to do this for quite a long time building it up until he started to get a half-decent revenue.

Flameduck,
Why would you think that proffesional gamblers do not care about odds?

Also, I'm not equating "real work" with effort expended. If I were, poker would easily qualify as a real job. There is a reason so few play the game for a living dispite what would seem to be an obvious or immediate appeal to many.



Game Producer,
Thanks for the links.

Tribal Trouble was developed by 4 people tho'. They need roughly 4 more games that do at least as well as Tribal Troubles to break even.

Because they bet against bad odds for a living?

Those are degenerate gamblers or recreational gamblers, not professional gamblers. You won't long survive on your gambling income if you "bet against bad odds" for your daily bread.

SpaceAce

"It is not even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli

Indiegamedevelopment takes a lot i see.
Its not easy to make sales.

Is there a topic also on what is "most populair"?
I have been working on a puzzlegame with an interactive twist.
But the GFX kinda sux compared to whats arround (i think).

[imghttp://www.icetec.net/sa1.jpg]
[imghttp://www.icetec.net/sa2.jpg]
[imghttp://www.icetec.net/sa3.jpg]

Listing price would be $10-$15 with editor and "map-share" on the website.
It has +-35 brainbreaking levels.

(p.s. the chest is from a spritelib, everything else i made)

looks pretty neat. Font looks familiar.

im strongly considering to remake this game in BlitzMax. But imagine on how much time that would take. Maybe its better to first release it and then recode it xD
Anyway, thanks for your reply!! very encouriging.

Bmax is great. But yeah making any game takes a while. Now I have a decent framework it speeds things up by a couple of months.