I miss those real adventures...
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/I miss those real adventures...
Holy cow i miss all those Lucasarts adventures a lot. Games like
Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders
The Secret of Monkey Island
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
The Dig
:
They were so much fun to play. There are quite a lot new adventures around but i haven't played a single really good one compared to one of those pearls.
The last one i saw was the new revolution title but contrary to the brilliant first part of the Broken Sword serie it also had flaws here and there. And all those new german adventures also lack what made the old adventures great.
Why isn't there a single new adventure which does it all right: Story, humour, characters, gfx, sfx, gameplay, riddles, steering. As there are so many examples of really good adventures already around this is kind of sad...
I'm hoping for
http://www.telltalegames.com/samandmax although it's another annoying episode thing.
Lucasarts was such a great game company but after years of Star Wars monoculture and all the talented people who left them...ahh it's just sad.
Why hasn't Ron Gilbert started a new company to write adventures with the brilliance of a Monkey Island again?
Starting some investigations now...
The best I've found in recent times would be Secret Files : Tunguska ( which I suspect is one of the "german ones which lack what made the old adventures great" you referred to, and I will concede that it lacks finesse with plot, dialog and characterisation, and the humour is pretty base. )
A little older, Dreamfall:The Longest Journey was really good, good plot and characters, beautiful graphics, not really enough puzzles or difficult enough, but very enjoyable and pretty large.
And going back a little further still there was Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy which was really excellent in every respect, but perhaps wasn't "adventurey" enough for everyone.
When SamAndMax is available from TellTale ( I know it's out, but only through some Steam-Alike where you have to subscribe and when you stop subscribing you lose the games ) I will probably buy the whole package ( which I believe will cost $35 ) but I'm kinda not expecting too much from that either.
Broken Sword 4 was rubbish. Worse graphics than BS3, a weak plot, obscure puzzles, too short, the sheer lunacy of sidelining Nico, no chemistry between George and the new girl, lots and lots of bugs.
I think the short answer is that - unless it's a FPS or an RTS, publishers can't get the games on the shelves. You just have to look at Secret Files : Tunguska. It got rave reviews almost everywhere and yet you can't bloody find it in most game stores. My local Game™ bought one copy. To put that in context, it's a smallish town, but they can sell 250 copies of the new Gran Turismo or something like that in a single day.
I think what we need is for a few more niche publishers like The Adventure Game Company and Strategy First to get into the business, but it's a tough business and I wouldn't want to be the guy whose money was on the line for genre games like this.
unless it's a FPS or an RTS, publishers can't get the games on the shelves.
It's a short sighted attitude that will kill the industry. I loved Day of the Tenticle.
I liked BS3 and farenheit a lot. Don't have BS4 yet.
Why hasn't Ron Gilbert started a new company to write adventures with the brilliance of a Monkey Island again?
They stopped making those games because they don't sell. That's the sad truth.
Well i was looking at Blitz-Backdrop, but their website has been unchanged for months. it looked like a good starting point for a point and click.
if anyone wants to make a point and click this java app is very cool and free.
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/foothills/8436/indyjava/im sure it would take along time to make anything good.
Revolution's Beneath a Steel Sky was one of my favs.
Hi Gabriel,
When SamAndMax is available from TellTale ( I know it's out, but only through some Steam-Alike where you have to subscribe and when you stop subscribing you lose the games ) I will probably buy the whole package ( which I believe will cost $35 ) but I'm kinda not expecting too much from that either.
The first Sam&Max also wasn't the best adventure in terms of riddles and story but the humour was great and as Steve Purcell is on board again i hope for at least this again - the trailer is fun to watch. I also would have prefered buying the complete game but i think i can't wait this long and also want to support the game.
Broken Sword 4 was rubbish. Worse graphics than BS3, a weak plot, obscure puzzles, too short, the sheer lunacy of sidelining Nico, no chemistry between George and the new girl, lots and lots of bugs.
This is something i really don't understand. Charles Cecil is so long in this buisness. He has a strong franchise with the Broken Sword serie. Why are they developing/releasing stuff like BS4?
I think the short answer is that - unless it's a FPS or an RTS, publishers can't get the games on the shelves. You just have to look at Secret Files : Tunguska. It got rave reviews almost everywhere and yet you can't bloody find it in most game stores. My local Game™ bought one copy. To put that in context, it's a smallish town, but they can sell 250 copies of the new Gran Turismo or something like that in a single day.
Is this really the problem or just a part of it? This might be true for smaller shops but there are good small gameshops around here in munich for example which offer a lot of games beside of mainstream, there are the big stores around which have much more space for games to offer and the online stores. Secondly there is the internet as a selling platform. Although i prefer buying a game in a package i would have no problem buying it via internet if the game is great.
I think what we need is for a few more niche publishers like The Adventure Game Company and Strategy First to get into the business, but it's a tough business and I wouldn't want to be the guy whose money was on the line for genre games like this.
There is something like a revival for adventures the last years and it seems that there still or again is an audience for such games. What's missing are the good games for this genre. So why just don't do it right or making those who did it right reenter the arena?
Okay there are tons of interviews with only Ron Gilbert (not to mention all the other guys) around and for sure a lot of you know the Grumpy Gamers site with the funny comic strips
http://grumpygamer.com/comics . There i also saw a more recent interview also available as a podcast
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6153188/p-2.html .
Going on...
I'm playing the new broken sword game 'Angel of Death', I don't know why but I love games like these.
They are laid back, no rush, no hurry, and they usually have a decent story line that compels you to carry on.
I havent played broken sword since number two, and while the extra dimension seemed 'funny' at first, though, I'm getting used to it,
The only two problems I can find are:-
Number one; the inventory could of been better organised (sometimes you put the cursor to the top of the screen and nothing happens)
Number two; the camera angle sometimes gets awkward. Though, this is a common problem with 3D games anyway!
Other than that, spot on for me! :)
Dabz
don't forget RPG
all games are FPS, RTS, or RPG... I guess also 3rdPS.. and some action games with a lot of elements from all 4 of those types.. (even like ratchet and clank)
why? Cause they sell like crazy.
Adventure morphed into Survival Horror. Which drew heavily from a lot of action games..
most gamers want action games. They don't want turn-based games and they don't want slow paced games. Even the RPG is changing with far more action elements.
There are still a bunch of RPG snobs like myself who want their RPGs to be turnbased or have the option of turn-based because we want to be able to play for 12 hours without our hearts exploding... I like action games, but I can only play a few for long periods of time without losing that zone... I don't want to have to focus all the time, which is why I like RPGs.. cause I can use my brain, and take my time. I am not playing against a clock.
Yeah me too. Done most of them on Amiga or in DOS. ACtually I'm sorta playing Broken Sword: Sleeping Dragon on PS2 at the moment which is sort of like them.
If anyone's in the UK and has a hankering for some great broken sword action, BS1 and BS2 are being sold in a boxset for £4.99 at virgin megastores. Classic.
Beneath a steel sky is easily one of my favourites but another less known game is In Cold Blood:
http://www.adventurecompanygames.com/tac/incoldblood/index.html Myst is good :)
Myst 5 was a bit disappointing (I hate their decision to switch from actual full motion video of actors to motion captured 3d models and Myst 4 looks a hundred times nicer; why didn't they do the Myst 4 thing with beautiful high-res panoramic images?!), but Myst 4 was excellent... as was everything up to that point.
And Myst 5 wasn't bad... just not enough; it felt rushed, and it probably was.
If you haven't really played Myst but want to catch up, try RealMyst. I just found it and I'm playing it since I never played the original Myst and nowadays it looks terrible. (Rendered at mini resolution). The same thing happened to Riven, sadly, (rendered at 640x480!) so I'm hoping for Cyan to maybe do the same for it and those that follow as 3d hardware catches up.
It's really cool that RealMyst looks good enough to be played, and that it is actually using the exact same resources as the renders for Myst, which undoubtedly took forever even at their small resolution!
Other than that, I agree. We are without good adventure games :(
I would mention Phoenix Wright, but it isn't really an adventure in the same way as such spectacular titles as Day of the Tentacle or Monkey Island.
Those developers with money have to ask themselves why it is that people continue to play and enjoy games such as those so long after their original release, while the keenness to emulate or replay ageing first person shooters of today is so small.
Modern RPGs, for a little while, had a chance to be pretty decent adventure game replacements.
The problem is that they try to be too non-linear.
Yep, I said it: I want linear gameplay!
One reason that Half-Life is considered such a great game is because, while it is totally linear, you don't really think about alternatives. Throughout the game, you are convinced to go down a single path by the environment; I don't remember any invisible barriers or moments of "but what if I went that way?!"
This is usually the fault of the ceiling conveniently collapsing, but it just feels right.
Anyway, what I'm getting at there is: What if Half-Life wasn't completely linear? What if you had a choice, from the very start, of which path to take?
The game would be less interesting, of course. The developers would suddenly have to accommodate for dozens of possibilities, stretching thin the fun little sequences and turning the story into what has come to be known as an RPG.
It would be non-linear, but with one glaring problem: After a bit of game play, non-linear stops working. It gets boring, and the sharp, linear bones of that non-linear design start poking through: Suddenly, you start to realize how the enemies only know one way to attack, that you can drop stuff wherever you like but it just disappears, that levelling up serves no purpose other than to level up your opponents in a nearly equal manner, that there is no multiplayer, and that there is no way to acquire a fish tank, play cards or feed ducks.
I enjoy being shown a richly decorated, imaginative world with a complex storyline and perfectly thought out scenes. I enjoy being conveniently blocked from one place to make whatever place comes next more interesting and to conceal things that have been deemed imperfect and detrimental to the game.
Linear RPGs last as long as they want to last, and they don't force me to use my imagination to cover up missing details.
So face it, you giant slug-like developers out there:
Unless it actually is perfect, non-linear is old.
Stop making sandboxes and start making real adventures.
Have you ever checked out any from the AGS forums?
Some of them are surprisingly good, like Trilby's Notes or the ones that came before it here:
http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/games.htmOr have you tried Cedric and the Revolution, which is short but really reminiscent of that Lucasarts style:
http://www.origamihero.com/#7Or if you want another short one that's more like the Gobliiins style then, Knightsquire is quite fun:
http://www.bigbluecup.com/games.php?action=detail&id=753Or if you want a more Simon the Sorcerer or King's Quest kind of game, the Apprentice series is really good as well:
http://www.herculeaneffort.com/index.php?page=gamesAnd then there's the remakes of games like King's Quest themselves:
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/I know the original ones can't hold a candle to the classic adventures but they aren't wastes of time either. If you really want a classic go to
http://www.scummvm.com and download Beneath A Steel Sky for free, that is one of my favourites of all time.
A pirate i was meant to beeeeee...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9my0tsutw&mode=related&search=Well, gimme that copy program at least! ;O)
Ankh is very Lucasarty, so much so that it works as a disadvantage to the game; it's really difficult to avoid comparing it to the classics without finding it wanting. Still, if you're hankering for a humourous adventure game then it might be a good choice of game.
http://www.ankh-game.com/Personally I prefer Quest for Glory 1-4 to any of the Lucasarts adventures; they blend the best bits of both RPGs and Adventure games together and have decent replay value. For anyone who likes these games, you should check out the free vga remake of Quest for Glory II
(arguably the best game in the series) at:
http://www.agdinteractive.com/For those of you who are Monkey Island fans, I recommend keeping an eye on the website of Autumn Moon Entertainment; a company dedicated to pruducing a humourous adventure in the classic Lucasarts style, set up by the lead artist of Curse of Monkey Island. The game that they are developing - A Vampyre Story, looks *extremely* reminiscent of Curse of Monkey Island (obviously.)
http://www.amegames.com/I wouldn't waste my time with Telltale's episodic adventures. The whole concept of episodic gaming (or at least the way it is being implemented at the moment) is fundamentally flawed in so many ways. At the moment, I find episodic games to be nothing more than excuse for developers to maximise profits while minimising effort. How many TV shows film one episode, broadcast it and then spend months making the next one? The viewing public wouldn't accept it, so why do game developers think that game players will? To do it right, creating an episodic game series would
extend the development time and
increase costs/risk, because, really, you'd have to complete development on the majority (if not all) of episodes before "airing" the season. I wouldn't wait one month or longer for an episode of Doctor Who and I won't wait that long for each episode of Sam'n'Max or Bone - particularly as there is a greater risk that the game series' might be prematurely cancelled.
To those that say that the adventure game genre is dead and/or unprofitable, I say: Nonsense! People seem to mistake being
less profitable than mindless action games with not turning a profit. Silly. I would also argue that good adventure games are more difficult to make than games in almost any other genre. Very few game designers possess the necessary creative writing skills and so, sadly, clunky dialogue, uneven pacing, clumsy punctuation and grammar, cliched plots and stories are often the order of the day.
Ankh is like all the other new adventure games, it's somehow nice but not really good. I would prefer having a single 90+ title instead of five or six 70-85 titles. If i remember right the ankh developers also consulted some ex lucasarts designers.
As for wasting time with telltale. As i stated above i dislike the idea of episodes due to different reasons (also some you've mentioned) but in the end i'll give them a chance. When the game is good then i definately prefer having two hours of fun instead of the 10-20 hours of the boring average adventure meal you get today. Bone was also awful...
I dunno if adventure games are harder to do. I would prefer saying that they simply require different skills and maybe there aren't a lot people who have those skills as they are more focussed on the other genres.
I would still love to develop a great adventure game. Maybe it will happen some day.
http://www.dead-code.orgnice program for making adventure games supports 3d characters on a 2d rendered backdrop
Taumel,
I agree with you 100% about Ankh, and, indeed, perhaps the biggest problem facing the adventure game genre is that so many current games are substandard. The common incorrect assumption is that the genre is failing due to a lack of quantity (ie. no one releases commercial adventure games these days) rather than a lack of quality (ie. no one releases good commercial adventure games these days), when actually the opposite is the truth. There are tons of new commercial adventure games, but most of them are absolutely awful. I would rather the genre die than see most of the drivel that is released.
I think that adventure games are more difficult to make than games in many other genres, simply because the industry doesn't help to develop the writing skills or originality necessary to create quality adventure games. In short, the game industry lacks quality writers - in this is a major hurdle for any wannabe adventure game developers.
I'd like to develop a decent adventure game too, but it's tough and time consuming, and I'm not sure I ever will.
Anyone remember 'Loom' also by LucasArts - that was one of my favourite adventure games as a kid.
I don't know if it was because I was a kid at the time but I could replay the old adventure games over multiple times despite having finished them and seen the outcome already. Particularly the older Sierra Space Quest Games (1-3 not 4 onwards), the early Leisure Suit Larry (1-3) and Heros Quest/QFG 1 (I'd probably like QFG 2 but never got to play it as my PC wasn't powerful enough at the time - Sierra ceased supporting CGA graphics around that time).
I've rarely seen adventure games in the stores, as mentioned by others above - but those I have seen seem to be very 'serious' - humour seems to have disappeared, perhaps?
Yup. I've noticed that many if not most commercial adventure games tend to be from places which still have an appetite for adventure games; non-english speaking countries such as France, Germany, eastern european countries (Romania, for example) and Russia. This being the case, I suspect that so many 'serious' adventure games receive English translations because they're just easier to translate. This relative ease of translation, along with the lack of writing skills that I mentioned in my last few posts, may also account for the glut of Myst clones too.
Unfortunately, perhaps due to translation problems, cultural differences, or plain poor writing, 'serious' is used as a euphemism for 'tedious' in most cases.
... And speaking of euphemisms, Loom was certainly 'interesting' and an 'interesting concept'. ;)
I really enjoyed Quest for Glory: So You Want To Be A Hero by Sierra. I played the crap out of it in 91 or 92. Soooo fun.
I heard the latest Broken Sword game was pants - saw a review that gave it 4/10. I'm gutted - this was one game I was actually looking forward to, having played all the prequels and enjoyed them. :/
Chroma, you, sir, have fine taste in adventure games.