BlitzMax ARM support

Please raise your hand if you would be interested in purchasing a BlitzMax compiler for GamePark, PocketPC and / or GBA/DS. Just curious, and no I don't have any immediate plans...

1 Naughty Alien
2 REDi
3 Regular K
4 Chroma
5 TeaVirus
6 yoko
7 dmaz
8 Mr. Picklesworth
9 Jeremy Alessi
10 Dabz
11 Knotz
12 Space_guy
13 Pete Carter
14 Jimbob
15 Psilo
16 (tu) sinu
17 (tu) Cygnus
18 Qube
19 Oddball
20 Tri|Ga|De
21 Beaker
22 BlitzSupport
23 Steve Elliott
24 Game Boy
25 Glenny-boy
26 Takuan
27 smilertoo
28 dwarf
29 fredborg
30 Aymes
31 LAB[au]
32 skn3[ac]
33 Big&
34 Jim Brown
35 Amon
36 Myrmydon
37 Kanati
38 danjw
39 Daniel Wooden
40 GW
41 Agent Smith
42 robleong
43 DampeS8N
44 JA2
45 Matt Smith
46 Koriolis
47 Semar
48 Finjogi
49 CodeGit
50 Bobby Ball
51 Hub
52 Boiled Sweets
53 Dano
54 Link1426
55 JKRankie
56 Sphinx
57 Mark1nc
58 pls
59 Khomy Prime
60 Zenith
61 Jedive
62 Barnabius
63 QuietBloke
64 Agamer
65 PantsOn
66 bradford6
67 QuickSilva
68 Mikele
69 Leiden
70 Ziltch
71 mongia2
72 Why0Why
73 Wiebo
74 NigelC
75 Rimmsy
76 Panno
77 IPete2
78 ShadowTurtle
79 Jason W
80 Ian Thompson
81 Nigel Brown
82 Bobby Ball
83 sonicfactory
84 Dirk Krause
85 DIJ
86 mindstorms
87 EdzUp
88 Pete Rigz
89 The r0nin
90 anawiki
91 pappavis
92 ThomasL
93 gman
94 BlackSp1der
95 dh

96 Dreamora
97 (X360)WedgeBob
98 Dan at D-Grafix dot com
99 insomnia
100 jsp
101 GfK
102 GregBUG
103 Nelvin
104 Merx
105 Yavin
106 kronholm
107 gosse
108 OvineByDesign
109 Doiron


110 Scaremonger
111 Sonic
112 ziggy
113 Tiger
114 big10p
115 eni
116 Plash
117 JetFireDX
118 John Galt
119 SebHoll

..hand uppp..

me me me! GBA/DS would be awesome! :D

and Wii?

GBA/DS would be great.

As long as emulators would accept it though (but well, why wouldn't they?)

/vote GBA-DS and something so we can write games for cell phones hehe.

Yes (GBA, GP2X & PalmOS).

I'd be interested.

that'll be killer

for sure

Definitely.

Is such a thing possible without having to completely redraw everything?

Hand raised ...

Hand raised and I'm on tip-toes! :)

Dabz

Interested.

ofcourse

Yeah that would be great! pocket pc would be amazing for me

Hand up with chocolate sprinkles

*raises hand*

id want gba/ds, id def buy it.

YES! :)

Yup, very interested in Pocket PC version :)

The more platforms supported the better in my view. I'd be a little concerned though that with so many platforms supported maintenance would overtake development.By this do you mean those that already have a BlitzMax licence would need to purchase a seperate licence? Or was it just a figure of speach?

Very very interested in the PocketPC version.

Aaaand we're off! :)

I'd be interested in a Pocket PC license.

I'd buy it myself!

PocketPC - definitely!

GP2X, mobile phones and Palm OS would interest me.

While I appreciate the enthusiasm expressed here, I think BRL could spend their limited resources on a lot of other things that would be way more beneficial to the user community at large. For example, a fully supported windowed mode.

PocketPC is a very niche market these days and phones are a nightmare from everything I've heard. Every phone provider has their own standards and it even varies between models. Also, the market is effectively locked down by several large publishers so you can almost forget about releasing independently on phones. Doesn't seem worth the development time.

GBA/DS would be hobbyist pursuits at best since I doubt Nintendo will be sanctioning indie releases on their handhelds anytime soon.

The 3 platforms currently supported are the 3 that matter to someone writing shareware games or apps.

I think heading in the direction suggested at the top of this thread will turn Blitz into an even more niche product than it already seems to be. You need to broaden your appeal, not limit it further. Make it easier for people to get games out the door on the platforms that matter.

That's my opinion, anyway...

*raises hand*

*raises two hands* PocketPC.

i'd like a bmax compiler for gp2x. Better since you're free to release games as you like, unlike the GBA.

hands up :-)

hands raised

No thanks. I'll take more functionality on supported platforms first.

Like private constructors/methods/fields. Multi-threading. Delegates (aka. type-safe callbacks). For starters.

*raises hand*

ohh, yes please sir!

DS/GBA and pocket PC, I would buy it immediatly!

pocket pc and symbian please

-Oops-

Warren does make a point here.
An unfortunate point, but a true one nonetheless.

If such a compiler was unofficialish, not directly supported by BR, etc., then it would be a bit easier to get away with...

I'm in the same boat as Warren, that and the fact the GBA/DS support wouldn't mean jack imo unless you guys got Nintendo to allow it for commercial projects or something along the lines of that...

Interested!

What's the alternative in terms of ressources invested in ...?

For GP2X .. Absolutely!

Any support for other systems gets my vote. :)

Sure how much?

A little off topic (sorry skid), but not entirely...

Honestly, I'd rather see BlitzMax creating executables that are compatible with JVM and the .Net CLR.

That would take care of a lot of anciliary platforms just by compiling down that path (such as PocketPC, Palm and several phone models... not to mention maintaining support of MacOS and Windows, quite possibly Xbox 360...), and allow concentration on feature set rather than the support of mulitple compilers.

I agree tha the JVM option would be a good way forwards; it would also open the possibilities of web based game applets.

Hands up :)

To everyone throwing up your hands: have you thought it through? Is there really nothing else you'd rather see BRL spend their development time on? Really?

Awesome response! I was hoping to have a list of 50 interested customers before putting a business proposition to BRL that would allow me to proceed.

Add me to the list too.. PocketPC definitely. It's the only reason I bought glbasic recently and it's nowhere near as stable on ppc as I'd like. I'd buy bmax-ppc in a heartbeat.

Hell yea! GP2X, DS/GBA would be amazing! I would definetly pay for it!

EDIT: And use it!

Me Too!

You left my name out.

Yep, count me in for PocketPC.

I agree with Flameduck -- support for major things like Multi-threading are much more important to me than additional platforms...

(And now... queue the "why does it take so long for the 3D module to be released?"-threads... BRL can only do so much at the same time)

Don't get me wrong, additional supported platforms would be nice, it's just that right now I wouldn't think it should be very high on the priority list.

you can stick me on too.

Right off I think your list of "50" maybe culled, because the question of
"By this do you mean those that already have a BlitzMax licence would need to purchase a seperate licence?" was not directly anwered. (Even though it was implied that this would be a separate package)

I myself would love Bmax programs to be compilerable on ARM systems. But I am not willing to pay a large amount of the folding stuff, if any.

The ability to sell a windows / mac / linux / mobile version of a game surely would be a good thing!

Count me in...

Me too - PocketPC

PocketPC, for sure.

All thumbs up for GBA and PocketPC !

Sergio.

Not care for purchasing an addon, that's a PLUS I think.

My $$$ is ready.

GBA, all the way. :D But I want ImageBuffers first, lol.

Me too, -> GamePark (GP2X) !!

Both hands raised

i think that compiling for an ARM processor isn't the biggest part of the work to get bmax code running on a GBA/DS. i mean the GBA and DS are pretty much all dedicated (sprite and 3d) hardware with matching limitations. for example, the DS can't do true color texture maps (only 4x4 texel compressed) it has no blendmodes for 3d entities, alpha textures can only be in 5bit color 3bit alpha or the other way around, etc. etc.

that and the fact that nintendo has a custom compiler, will only licence companies that they approve, you'll need a devkit to run your code, etc. in other words redirecting blitzmax compiled code to the homebrew scene (which doesn't have to be a bad thing, but i don't think nintendo will thank blitz research...)

so i'd rather see the shitloads of time that would be needed to get bmax to compile for arm processors invested in improvements for the language itself (public/private support, inline functions, defines, etc)

I agree w/ Warren, FlameDuck and koekjesbaby that more features and functionality for the current platforms is the way to go.

Multi-threading is #1 on my wish list.

Absolutely... DS and Pocket PC would be great!

In my opinion, moving Max to PPC/GBA/DS/etc before the core platforms are stablized and completed will further doom it to obscurity and forever mark it as a hobbyist language.

Unfortunately, skidracer doesn't seem the least bit interested in addressing any of our (very valid) concerns.

I can see PocketPC being do-able but the GBA & DS graphics systems are very different to the way PC games generally work. It'd either be a very inefficent kludge or a completely new (and much harder to use) 2D module. I just can't see it being worth the effort for a closed platform.

Warren and JP have valid concerns, JP's should hold significant wait considering he has probably a better grasp on developing for Nintendo pocket systems than others.

Warren's point is very valid as well, so many threads here about better windowed support, 3d module, better sound, better language semantics (private methods et al).

And someone throws up another platform, and many of the people who already bemoan BRL are spread too thin, go yes please!!

Sales numbers for BRL -> FLOP
Dilution of already small companies resources -> FLOP
Dissapointment and further fragmentation of the existing market segment (n - 50) that own BlitzMax currently and don't want it -> FLOP



Naive assumtion that all 50 people who put hands up buy it

Simple equation 50 sales at $80 US Dollars Probably 4 weeks skidracers salary.

So unless the compiler/alternate 2d pipeline/conversion and reduction of modules/documentation can be delivered in under 4 weeks, you have a less than good chance of breaking even.

Sorry skid, but it it sounds far more like a project that you would like to do rather than one that will be benificial based on a business case.

However on the bright side, I have some information that may benefit you, regarding someone who saw you somewhere in NZ, and wanted me to warn you about something (suitably cryptic huh?)

Please email me in private if you see this to ask about it as I think this info would be good for you to know about.

Regards

Roger.

Big Julie says "Skidracer will be sleeping with the fishes."

After thinking for a while, whilst portable programming would be a plus, It would make things hard for yourselves when it came to updates.

I would buy it, yes. But as many have said, there are alot of things that need doing to max as is first :)






Email would indeed be best - We don't need to know about Skid's Private life, sexuality, or if he has his trousers tucked into his socks. ;)

(Sorry Skid- kidding with ya ;) )

As i see 2 completely separate issues here (features, stability of core platforms / compiler for more platforms) i am all for it!

...if it is not one and the same person working on both.. ;)

Interested!

count me in

My vote goes for Wii if the rumors on the Wii Virtual Console "indie program" possibilities are true :-)
Assuming that the Max2D part gets upgraded to something that meets the GPU gen of the Wii and thus make sense to fire up at all. (OpenGL 1.5 - 2.0)
Would be willing to pay another 100$ for that.

Yeah I'm aware that this is no ARM but it is PPC where BM seems to be targeted at anyway, at least current gen implementation wise.

DS would be really cool but as it isn't officially supported nor possible to spread this games usefully, its a "no go" for me.
Had some nice ideas for it, which I tried to port usefully to a pc ... but without a pointer that points directly on the screen its "hell".

Consolidation before expansion.

It's a nice thought, but I have to go with Warren here. Blitzmax isn't as complete as it should be.

Also creating a JVM and CLI compatible compiler will cover most of the mobile bases and still open up Bmx to a larger market on the platforms it allready exists on. Not only for games, but also serious Application development.

Hand in the air and jumping up and down. . . . .

BlitzMax for the GP2x would be cool!

hand up and running around with happiness

mark, you better start working on this or we are going to be mad. seriously mark this would be perfect to add to the cross-platform thing about BMAX

"mark, you better start working on this or we are going to be mad."

Speak for yourself. I can think of 10 things I'd rather have him do than this.

The more platforms the better, so long as it's free to existing blitzmax users? ;-D

Make it work on the new iPods too?

Although support for Pocket PC and GBA?DS would be great, lets think about it for a second. According to http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp Micro$oft Windows counts for 90% of the currently Operating Systems being used worldwide, while Mac is a mesly 3.8% and Linux is a tiny 3.5%. Since Windows is the most popular OS how many people do you think will actually play your game on Pocket PC, since
1)They are expensive
2)Not Many People Have One
3)The Hardware is limited compared to a regular pc.
Phones Enabled Games are very complicated to write and even if you do manage to get something working, you would need to have a contract with the phone company as there is no way for your users to simply purchase it from your site and download it. They would need to purchase it from the phone company and use the phone companies download system which lowers your profits greatly. Nintendo DS development would require homebrew tools like flash carts, and unofficial compilers to get it to work. Even then it wouldn't be 100% legal and you couldn't actually sell it without risking being sued by Nintendo. Even then Nintendo requires you to have a large company with loads of cash to become a one of their partners. In my option as a indie game developer i doubt Nintendo will ever support indie game developers instead favoring large companies like Rare, Enix, Squaresoft who have large profolios and loads of cash. If BRL made this module free it would mean the end of BlitzBASIC as we know it, so mostly it would cost $100+ which is too much for casual game makers, Hobbies, Indie Game Developers etc. As far as GP32X is conserned to my knowledge it was never released in the US and you would need to buy it imported in order to use it which i can't see it happening as GBA/DS has a stronghold on the portable games system market.

@Space Xscape - There is a decent user base for the GP2X and I would love to play my own and other blitzers games on it.

hand raised

I'm with Warren. I would prefer having a more bugfree product on the already existing platforms first before getting support for new ones and i still haven't heard what the alternative for arm support would be.

Doing nothing? Deleting some threads? Serious development on some other nice stuff? Bugfixing/Optimizing? ...

COUNT ME IN (GamePark & Nintendo)

taumel makes an excellent point. If ARM development goes forward, what are we giving up in exchange for it?

I'm with all the people suggesting the resource could/should be used elsewhere.

Resources are really BRL's business. For all we know they are bringing in extra people to do this work. Skid was simply asking who's interested, which is fair enough.

Personally I think a lot of the interest is fueled by the 'glamour' of getting code working on a console. Once you've done that you know it isn't anything special and more or less a dead end unless you have a dev licence and a publisher.

I can still remember the thrill of porting Skidmarks to the Megadrive. We used AmiBlitz and 90% of the same code base. The fact that handhelds like early consoles have such limited resources in my view actually makes game development easier not harder. Handheld development also still seems to be one of the easier entry points if you want to work in the industry.

I must admit one of my main interests in this project is to get some hands on experience with the bcc compiler workings, at the moment, any old user can add modules to BlitzMax but there is only 1 guy who knows anything about whats really going on under the hood...

Any chance of getting concerns from the other side addressed? Will you personally be doing the work? If so, what core features are we giving up by having this happen? ARM/GBA/etc are going to limit the feature set that Blitz can offer since everything has to work cross platform ... right?

Both hands up!

If speaking of GBA shouldn't it better be called thumbs up?! :O)

Even if this does go through, I'm just curious, how exactly will this be implemented?

I mean, considering the fact BMax, as it is, is designed to be cross-platform with little OS-specific tweaks thrown in via Windows, Mac, and Linux........how will these new systems add up in the grand scheme of things with the existing system support?

Will the ARM support be another "layer" of cross-platform stuff for Phones, GP2x, GBA/DS, or will it work within the current BMax modules and work with one another?

I just figured due to all the different coding requirements (limited system specs as already mentioned), that each supported system with all their differences between one another, would require a stand-alone set of modules for it to work properly/efficiently with said system.....with a similar style of coding functionality/setup as BMax already has.

@John, .
true, then again they might not be.
I get your point though. In the context of this post I would answer 'Not interested'.

Yes!

PocketPC would be nice... however XBOX 360, Wii and PSP would be just over the top.

PLS

* = noob @ anything 'pocket', I've nothing, no gamemachine, no navigation etc. Zip!

But as those car navigation systems are partly distributed for pocket PC's (the rest are those TomToms orso) it's not unthinkable I'd have one of them in a future. And if so I'd like to be able to use my own tools for creating retro-gfx and other odd editor-stuff made to not being bored in a train.

So if things aren't too expensive I'll at least raise the "hand of potential interest".. :P

Why? You have no chance of selling an indie game on those platforms so why would you want to pay for them to add support for those consoles?

Effectively, you're advocating that BRL waste time.

Interested

There's every chance of getting an indie game on those platforms but there's no need to a special compiler. If Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo are interested in your PC game then they'll provide a dev kit. Microsoft and Sony have already done this. Nintendo have talked about it but I'm not sure if they've signed any indies up yet.

Hands up! GCC can already compile to arm, so why not. :)

I fail to see the difference between 1 person knowing all about bcc and 2 people, unless Mark has been issued with a '4 days to live' notice.

For all of the language enhancements most people are requesting a lot of (more OOP, multithreading, new platform)... the easiest thing to do would be to open source bcc. That's the only thing stopping us from enhancing Max in any really serious way. I know it's the only thing stopping a mate from starting a PSP port of the modules (in combination with the Sony devkit, which is mostly gnu based).

I know it's the most important core part of Max and probably -should- be kept under wraps... but from an end user/licensing viewpoint, I can't really understand why it stays closed source.

Would it mean that maxGUI also works on those devices?

Definitely. Would be awesome to have BMax on GP2X and PocketPC.

My vote goes to PocketPC version. It would be great to create stuff for the pocket platforms. :)

Barney

Hands Up for PocketPC.

Im already contemplating my next phone to be a windows mobile.. with built in keyboard, VGA screen.. If BMax ( even a cut down one ) was available Id be so happy I would be in danger of exploding.

Another vote for PocketPc, exspecially as my one should be arriving today or tommorow.

Pocket PC MaxGUI Support, Coool!

It would have to be pocketpc or gp2x to allow for any viable game development that could be sold. GBA/DS might be cool but you couldnt release anything.

me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me. me.
NDS/GBA and PocketPC would be very cool

DS would rock. add me to the petition...

You left out: for browsing the Internet - which is a completely different demographic than people who are likely to buy an indie game.

GCC can also already cross compile (compile for platform x on platform y). Again functionality I'd take over an ARM version of bcc.

Cross compiling perhaps? I have faith you can pull it off...

Those are exactly the people who flock to RealArcade and the like. The vast majority of games produced/completed with Blitz/Max these days are casual games so the people you described are the defining demographic.

Hey, skidmarks was a cool game. When is BRL going to start making games again? ;-)

I know this is a bit hard to believe for the crowd in here, but not every person in the world who uses the Internet (or more specificly the World Wide Web) does so for the purpose of playing games.

Says who? Last I checked people who buy casual games are not as privvy to impulse purchases as you seem to suggest. Besides it's not the type of game, so much as the type of publisher that's the issue.

BRL have never made games. Vision and Acid Software made games. I doubt they have too much time to also make games.

.. and Digisoft (The Wild Bunch) :)

Add me too, GBA and DS would rock.

Jason.

but a decently sized subset of those who do use the internet do :).

Yeah! PocketPC

My hands up for Pocket PC!

I would pay for Blitzmax on the GP2X.
I am sure Game Park Holdings would love it!

short of a licencing deal from nintendo a GBA/DS version would be next to pointless.

gba/ds

mongia

PocketPC Here too!

DS Baby

Will the pocket pc version support PPC based smartphones?

There is no PocketPC version, nor are there any immediate plans to make one. I would have thought the question "Do you want an ARM compiler for BlitzMAX" would have been a fairly straightforward question.

That wasn't the question though flamey.

"Please raise your hand if you would be interested in purchasing a BlitzMax compiler for GamePark, PocketPC and / or GBA/DS."

Fair enough. It seems like there's two questions though, as the topic only really suggests ARM support. Additionally skid said his motivation for it was to get insight into the workings of the compiler, rather than insight into how PocketPC/GamePark works.

In fact I would probably prefer a port to SPARC/Solaris before ARM/PocketPC/Linux, and since participants in the SUN Partner Program can get (or at least could when I was down there) a 9000NZD SUN computer in exchange for porting their Windows/Linux applications to Solaris, it seems to be the more cost effective solution, for the purpose playing with compilers.

I believe the initial question was



I was merely stating the fact that I would be interested in a PPC version if it supported PPC based smart phones.

hand raised

Yes please!

Interested

Now we can't even post against this idea without our posts being deleted. Skidracer, why start these threads if you aren't interested in listening to opposition? If you're going to do it anyway, regardless of what users say, then just do it and drop the charade.

Warren, calling people sad was crossing the line, either lighten up or take your own charade elsewhere.

OK, agreed. I shouldn't have said that. However, I still don't understand the reluctance to address anyone's concerns from the other side of this thread.

I mentioned I wanted to put a proposal to Blitz Research.

This project would be an independent undertaking, it may not necessarily be a financially rewarding undertaking, it may well be based on a (sad) unhealthy affection for gadgets that don't cost $25 a month in electricity, but it is based on a lot of tooling around over a good many years in both gba and pocketpc devkits so as far as wasting time, consider several hundred hours already well wasted.

Not to take it off-topic/stir any trouble but... Wow, it's everyone versus skidracer lately :/

I hope you get the proposal through. It would be nice to have something like a BMax crosscompiler for the GamePark GP2X to tinker with on cold and wet Sunday afternoons.

I have no experience with these little "gadgets" but tinkering with them sounds very much fun.

On the more commercial side of things, the GamePark unit sold >30.00 units in Europe (the DS 87.000 in 2 days...) ( Joystiq).

Hmmm.

If your computer is costing you $25 a month in electicity, get it looked at. It's broken and likely sparking.

However, in seriousness, my entire point has been that I don't want real development time on core BlitzMax stuff to be pushed aside for this project. Since you're not working there anymore (I believe), then this is sort of a non-issue now.

I have both a DS (with a development unit) and a GP2X, and am currently tinkering around in c with both of them, so you can definitely count me in on this one!

Well, he keeps speaking. Everyone knows if you say something in an internet forum you deserve to be flamed.


People hoping that this project will come free with the other platform licenses now know otherwise.

Yes I would thanks,

IPete2.

This isnt a bad idea, i am interested.

Hmm... if BlitzARM will come up so i do think, the 3d module comes before max3d module is released :D

Any mobile version would do....not enough decent development software for mobiles anyway.

PocketPC, Palm (like the Zodiac..amazing pda), DS, GBA, and PSP.

Jason

Hands Up.

YES PLEASE!
If BRL were to produce an ARM version of Blitz, We would produce an ARM devboard that used it. In fact we already have a few designs.

Skid has left BRL? Really? I must've missed that... Are you sure? I always though Mark and Skid were more like best mates!

That's the worst type of partnership in business, I wouldnt ever in a million years hire one of my friends, because I will fall out with them, eventually!

Dabz

Even the friendship is very good, and they are openminded persons with similar views, I think such a partnership could work..
It may be rare though..

Still... AFAIK, Skid is apparently still working for BRL, he's just working more from his home, rather than BRL HQ.. (wherever that is; maybe Mark's place?)

_o/

Maybe no-one else wants a weirdo box, and just wants to see their stuff on pda

Add me to the list. Mainly interested in Pocket PC.

me too.

Hands Up Too.

This would convince me to get blitzmax!

hand raised :)

I'd be interested

I'd buy it in a heartbeat (for the GBA/DS compiler).

I'm pretty sure nintendo dont allow people to develop and sell stuff for their kit without a license.

Never understood how you'd ever prove your worth on GBA/DS if you couldn't develop for it otherwise. :)

Oh, I missed that thread. Add me to the list, I would be greatly interested in PocketPC compiler and others as well.

best
Roman

My hand is up for Gpark / Nintendo DS version of BlitzMax.

I would be very interested in a GP2x version.

im for this as well if GP2x is an option

interested too (GBA/DS). :)

@skidracer

Since there's a lot of us for it and since there has been two monhs when the original question was posted, are there any real news and/or decisions about this? I'd love to be able to use BMax for Pocket PC and other PDA style machines.

Barney

And also now to work on the iphone as well!

Actually it's a bit more blurry than that... You can develop for the DS, you can sell software for it as well, it's just the hardware(cartridge) that you will miss. But some homebrewn software have been sold online for the gameboy and gameboy advance in the past, it was not "games" it was a more devious usage of the gameboy, like music trackers (LSDJ- Nanoloop), digital oscilloscope or early embedded computing for robots.

What I like about developping for DS/Gameboys is the platform, quite limited somehow but consistent and standardized... and portable!

Signed.

Interested in DS DEv as well.

Oh yeah, count me in, especially puzzle games, perfect for DS/GBA. Maybe some for X360's XNA as well...

Yes

Rises hand ...

Pocket PC / PDA please

Another vote for PocketPC/PDA

i'm here! .. Rises Hand...

I'd be happy to buy a version for WinCE PocketPCs and Smartphones, for Brew and Symbian cellphones.

Yeah! Go mobile!

Count me in.

would but i hate bmax

Put me on this list, would LOVE to be able to code bmax for nds.

Support for GP2X would be awesome.

Hand raised

Hand raised here as well: just got a pda/smartphone myself and would love to code in BMax for it. :)

I'd like blackberry support. Any ARM support is a good way to go though.

PocketPC/PDA/MS Windows Mobile 2003 support would be fantastic.

SKIDS!!! NEWS!!! NEWS!!!!

DS please!

DS would be great

Count me in.

Coding on the DS would be sweet.

stick to pocketpc or gp2x...platforms where we could legally release a game.

Yeah interested in the GBA/DS part... dunno how interested though (dependent on cost)

Hand raised for DS. Without hesitation.

Count me in!

If you really think that you can easily port your stuff to a completely different processor (currently, BlitzMax is available for x86 only - but the ARM differs considerably from that processor)

Although I would *really* (really!) like to see BlitzMax for ARM, I would recommend not to dissipate BRL's energy but to concentrate on the further development of BlitzMax for Windows/Linux/MacOS (there are still enough flaws in that product!)

Blitzmax isn't X86 only....

Works perfect fine on my PPC Mac!

@Andreas: I would recommend not to dissipate BRL's energy but to concentrate on the further development of BlitzMax for Windows/Linux/MacOS (there are still enough flaws in that product!)


Screw the flaws, I can live with them :) EXPAND THE MARKET!

I would love to see this happen, count me in also.

PocketPC version would be interesting

I've been helping test some DS homebrew in my spare time- and i can say whilst this SHOULD be true- it isn't.

1) There are many different media types for the DS.
2) I have several programs that works on the developers DS, but not my own, Some that works no the developers DS, not my own but works fine on my other halfs DS Lite....

Any particular update on this? Also, may wish to consider changing the dh signature to Noel Cower to avoid confusion.

Hand up for iPhone and NDS. My priority would be on iPhone.

<snp>

On a more serious note I have been asked to offer anyone who can produce an ARM BlitzMAX. A free computer as a bounty. Don't get two excited its a bespoke ARM portable design, with a very cool screen. I guess Mark or skid might be the only people to reply to this?

Sorry Nigel, that seemed a little culturally insensitive as we treat death a little more privately in these parts.

Anyway, I've been knee deep in ARM code for last 9 months (day job) and now know how to roll my own profiler for CE and getting knee deep in driver debugging so I suppose we're a little bit closer to seeing gridwars on a touch screen but not that much.

I am eagerly awaiting Apple SDK if they standardise both iPhone and iTV toolchains me thinks Marky would only need a few small bribes from us wannabees.

*cough*

Would Google Android help make this more attractive?

Stick John Galt down on your list if you're still collecting names.

s'funny.. when BMax was first being developed and described as being multi platform for some reason in my head I had visions of it maybe having some custom libraries written for each platform but the BMax compiler itself would generate C or C++ code and a gnu compiler/linker used to actually create the app. Thats how I envisioned it could be ported to just about any platform relatively easily.
Ho hum.

I vote for Symbian !

QuietBloke: Your vision already exists, its called Eiffel

Why not ?
Playing with BlitzMax on DS sound great :)

If this vote's still running, then I raise my hand for BlitzMax + MaxGUI for iPhone/iPod Touch. And yes, I would pay for it.

Eiffel compiles to C code ?.. well.. I never knew that.

So all we need now is someone capable and willing to create a BMax compiler that generates C/C++ code. :)
Not much to ask is it ? <grin>

Yupp Eiffel generates C code and calls the specified C compiler for endcompilation (windows its borland C++ 5.5 unless you have VC6 installed, on OSX and Unix its GCC)

Iphone/PocketPC would be great

To answer the original question asked 1 year ago. YES I AM INTERESTED.

I have an iPod Touch and a DS...ALL MY HANDS UP!

Here's a small help to this cause:

http://www.6809.org.uk/gp32/build-cross-compiler.shtml

BMax uses GCC, so it shouldnt be impossible to make an ARM version ;)

My Hands up for Iphone Support

"i'd buy that for a dollar" (ok so maybe about a hundred more)

It also uses BCC (Blitz Commandline Compiler) which isn't a cross compiler. Also, MinGW (which is used as the Windows GCC implementation) isn't a cross compiler. So yeah, an ARM version is perfectly feasible for Linux, provided someone at BCC rewrites BCC and BMK for multiple build targets.

Shouldn't be impossible - isn't some sort of cross compiling going on with Mac already?

(Somewhat relevantly, FASM has an ARM port and is a cross compiler.)

It's impossible as far as Windows goes - unless you want Mark to port his own version of GCC to Windows. And no, some kind of cross compiling isn't going on with Mac already. You'll notice there are 2 versions of BlitzMAX for Mac. A PowerPC version and an Intel version.

GLBasic targets Mac, Windows, Linux, XBox, GP32, Windows CE and Nintendo - so it should be possible.

Unfortunately the IDE is Windows only.

Just one question: after more than a year are there some conclusions/goals?

I mean there are more than 100 persons claiming support for ARM based machine (of course this not means 100 persons will buy the compiler...) but a comment about the situation (I'm/We are still working on the idea/we abandoned it/or whatever) would be welcomed.

PS: if the ARM support exists, doesnt' it require an ARM based machine to compile it/testing it or are there other planned solutions?
At the moment we need separate compilers for separate platforms (win32 x86, linux x86, Mac x86, Mac PPC) that requires a dedicated PC (or at least a VM) or a new one to compile the source (I refer to Mac Intel).
This is (in the case of Win32/Linux) a 'minor' problem, but in the case of ARM support the range of hardware is wider.

So the question could be: what ARM machines/systems are/will be supported?

if your developing on an arm machine i think most people would test on a emulator like the ones in this guide

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb630224.aspx

Skid can you give us an update on this project please?

Oh and add me to the list ^^

ummm...update is its dead?

Dead? I doubt it ever lived.

well the iPhone turned out to be a non starter (draconian dev licensing) , but OpenGL ES 2 acceleration is now turning up in all sorts of interesting places so maybe a new blitzmax platform is around the corner:

http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/mkt/beagleboard.html

http://gbax.com/pandorax.html

Quite a few of the Nokia N-Series phones have OpenGL ES 2 acceleration in them...

Yup the following site is tracking and benchmarking them all:

http://www.glbenchmark.com/index.jsp

not quite sure why the nokias are out in front of the iphone but good to see.

What about the Android platform SDK? Worth jumping onto?

I believe there is a big future in mobile app/game development

Why Draconian dev licensing? I only read of two development programs (99$ or 299$), and I'm aware that you can sell apps only through the Apple Store, but if you wrote that there is obviosly something else I don't know about. They hinder the creation of third party tools for iPhone development? Just curious.

Android could became very popular too, and reminds more of a Pocket PC for the liberty given for the installation of third party apps and games (they also advertise various features which always were in Pocket PC's, like text cut'n'paste). I'm curious to see how much it will sell. However, at the moment Apple has already given a business proven platform for commercial products (though ethically questionable, having everything in a single store caters all users in the same place, and the userbase is really big... granted, it also means that you really don't have a choice if you don't like their practices - like removing everything they don't like - or have had bad experiences).

BeagleBoard looks fun. I bet you could get car PC builders, RC car/plane fans, robotics tinkerers, and all sorts interested if there was an easy way to program it. Even sell a package with board/distro/Max... ooh.

I have a BeagleBoard. The most fun I have had since the HYDRA.

The first rule of iPhone Dev Club is, you do not talk about iPhone Dev Club.

The second rule of iPhone Dev Club is, you DO NOT talk about iPhone Dev Club.

The third rule of iPhone Dev Club is, you must use bizarre ObjectiveC language and bloated UI frameworks.

etc...

1 & 2: incorrect. The NDA is beeing lifted. Only apple beta tech is a no talk any further after that
3. incorrect as well. you can write most stuff in C / C++, only the UIKit related code is obj-c. Even opengl es is c++ usable


Also there are already various game related technologies for it.
iTorque, Unity for iPhone soon to come, ShiVa

the one important main point: You have an Intel Mac with OSX 10.5.3+ or iPhone is out of your reach

In fact you don't even need that.

http://www.tbradford.org/2008/03/iphone-sdk-beta-2-possible-ppc-fix.html
http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/03/10/surprise-iphone-sdk-also-works-on-powerpc-macs/

So no more NDA, don't need an Intel Mac, and you know what ... Objective C isn't that bad. Read the docs one time and it all makes sense.

Was basically correct the time I posted that. The NDA was partially relaxed the day after.



'Most' perhaps, but you must interface with those frameworks at *some* point to make things 'friendly'... Even if it is through the xcode-generated 'glue' files.

Actually, I think ObjectiveC is a respectable language in and of itself - it has grown on me in recent times. However, I still maintain that Apple have made their associated frameworks needlessly complex in the pursuit of full compliance with object-oriented philosophies. That’s my opinion, anyway.

..hand uppp.. For IPhone

They are?
I thought they were actually very good. The reference docs are excellent, and there are plenty of source examples to work from.

Hand up for pandora, balls to closed systems where you need permission to sell anything.

Bmax for Pandora might be a tad redundant. It's already easy to code for that platform.

Yes there's that other basic but ive yet to see a decent demo from that.
Also it would be nice to have a quick and simple way of porting games from pc to handheld.

From a day-job point of view: PocketPC might be good, all the mobile platforms would be good - but there are so many OS' coming out for phones now it seems like a lost cause to become a phone developer - which is where BMax support would be really good if it could be done. Over the next year or so I can see my firm having to port a program to several platforms, using Blitz would make that a dream if it where possible.

Any platform that Blitz can make use of will of course be of interest to some extent, although I doubt I would develop for handhelds unless a range of them where supported, not just a handful.

Consider my hand raised.

Can't wait for some Pandora.

*hand uppp! For IPhone/NDS

maybe pruning the post of all the 'me me me' posts would be a good idea.

Ok...just seen this https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/company/
With this machine I think ARM support will be an interesting (and profitable) idea...and this is only one of the coming ARM based netbooks.