too old to learn programming?

What, in your opinion, is an average age cutoff for learning something as daunting as programming? I think there's a time when the human mind begins to well... you know what I mean. I'm 36, ok at Blitz3D and I've had a notion recently to take on C++ (then C# later on). I was just told by a professional coder that I'm too old to learn to take on programming seriously.

Nah, you're never too old.

Tell that professional coder that you are too old to listen to his nonsense. :)

Where's that thread that has everyone's date of birth? :)

You're too old when you start asking other people to show you how to do things you've done a hundred times before.

Sheesh, I'm 41 and recently started learning C myself. That, and of course
recently took on learning BlitzMax here. Could be though, that it's going in
through my eyes and out my arse, if it's true that I'm too old to learn. I wonder
what C code looks like after it's gone through me and out the other end? C++?
Java? ;-)

"You're too old when you start asking other people to show you how to do things you've done a hundred times before."

or too lazy

As long as you don't spend most of your evenings wandering the streets in a transiant state , wearning nowt but your dressing gown, I'd say your never too old ;)

I'm 34 myself.

Stevie

Yeah, I know what you mean (I turn 40 this month), but I hope that there's no major limit on that sort of learning this side of 70 or so. If I ever find myself in a nursing home, unable stop my HD2 tri-vid display (or whatever) from blinking 12:00, that'll be my cue to "End Function" <g>. Until then, I intend to keep on learning...




(^ "Avalon")



http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=58752

why did i have to find this?!

http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/0102/Sep04_01/17.htm

"By the time people are in their mid-60s, Park says, the continuous decreases in cognitive abilities may become noticeable. Just when most people are becoming more frequent consumers of medical services, they begin to notice that they are having more trouble remembering and learning new information."

whew... i have a few decades left.

unless you drank a lot of alcohol

I believe that when you are older, you can learn to reuse certain parts of your brain for other activities.
For instance, you learnt maths when you was young.
When you are older and you want to learn programming, the brain part that has specialized in maths could be used for programming, too. I think, in general, if you can't learn it, you will soon lose interest. Since you are saying you're ok in Blitz, I think you will have not too much trouble changing to C++. And if you have trouble, use Visual Basic instead.

Don't worry, you'll forget about it in no time.

It's not whether or not you are too old, its the type of learner you are. I started really getting into tech stuff and programming,etc. when I was 29.

If you are NOT the type of person who really "gets it", ANY age is too old, even 10 years old is too old.

But if you are good with syllogistical, logical type of stuff, reasoning, problem solving, etc., any age is good to start. I have a friend who started learning PHP/MySQL when he was in his 40s and he picked it up real fast with no real coding experience.

I'm so use to programming now (after 23 years) that I can code drunk, or almost asleep, or when just waking up or even in the middle of the night. I'm not saying the code would be any good...

I didn't even see a computer till I was 30. Spent 5 years teaching myself (back in the days of assembler!) then 15 years as a pro-programmer. Trust me, it's all about your attitude - and ignoring other peoples'.

You will learn your whole life...

I think that, barring disease, the mind works as well in later years as you MAKE IT WORK. You have to keep working the brain to keep it in shape.

I'm 47 years old, and programming games is only a hobby, but I'm a software architect/developer by profession. Most of the work I currently do is C#/asp.net/SqlServer, but that varies greatly according to the contract. I first started working with computers in the military from 1977-1981, and haven't done anything else as a profession since. Doing contract development work, I've had to learn (constantly am having to learn) new languages, new methodologies, and new tools while still meeting the deadline of the contract. I probably buy/read an average of 3 programming-related books per month from Amazon or Bookpool.com, and that's on top of the online book access through safaribooksonline.com .

Personally, I take cognitive abilities in later years pretty seriously, so I also constantly play thinking games, try to learn new things non-computer related, follow practices in books like "The Memory Book", and keep up on nutrition and exercise. An example of learning new things - I was 43 years old when I decided to switch from the QWERTY keyboard arrangement to the DVORAK. I could already type over 70 WPM in QWERTY, but now type over 90 WPM in DVORAK at 99% accuracy.

I try to do my part to ensure the old brain isn't turning to sludge, but really think that without ongoing, lifelong active effort to keep it in tune it would quickly deteriorate.

Mark.

..to take knowledge is never too late..so go for it buddy..

I think the stat is only 10 percent of the population
continue to learn as they get older

http://www.quickiesheets.com/blog/2006/08/25/8-reasons-to-keep-learning-new-things/

It's the journey, not the destination. You may not create
the next great 3d engine but you can be sure you'll be
comfortable writing "Hello World" beyond that it's up to
you

Thanks for the advice all. Mark... I wish you worked at Dobbins ARB here in Atlanta so I could have someone to talk to about it!

Anyway I just spent an hour at Barnes & Noble looking at C, C++ and C# books. A bit overwhelming to say the least. I need one that says "Learning C# for People that Don't Know Any Language but Blitz3D" :)

I'm going to start looking for "absolute beginner" tutorials online. The ones I have found seem to assume the reader is at least semi-fluent in C++.

Is it wise to learn C++ before C# or am I safe starting with C#?

For some reason I just don't feel comfortable not being able to hold my own in C++/C#.

If you want to learn C, I recommend you get the book 'The C Programming Language' by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie (they invented the language, I believe).

Work through it slowly, doing all the exercises. It's not a big book (272 pages) but it's like every single word has been carefully considered - no fluff like alot of other books. It's packed with info on C that you NEED to know. Every time I've had a query, this book has given me the answer. It's like a Tardis of C knowledge. :)

After that, you can go on and learn C++/C#, or whatever language is flavour of the month.

If you want the extra push to keep you from straying
from your goal, an online course at a technical or
community college may be in order.

http://www.ed2go.com/cgi-bin/oic3/newofferings.cgi?name=atlantatech&dept=WP&path=

>> If you are NOT the type of person who really "gets it",
>> ANY age is too old, even 10 years old is too old.


....or too young....

You're never too old to learn programming. Actually, it may even be therapeutic as you might stave off Alzheimer's if you keep your brain active! :)

BTW, I read that old programmers don't die - they just byte the dust...

Hello.

Yes, you're far too old. Invest in some Werthers originals, some slippers and triple-period keys.

Goodbye.

"Werthers originals" those adverts make me want to puke.

C++ is 'colder' imo than C#. pointers...memory allocations, mem leaks o my! From my little experience C# is targeted at productivity and was alot easier to pick up (thanks largely to the awesome visual studio IDE), where as I learned most of my C/C++ stuff in a linux environment :|.

Werthers originals? i heard that the company is only about 30 years old so the chances of some old git giving them to his grandchild, saying i had these when i was young is ok if hes a time traveler.

Pete

]The new adverts anit that BAD.

How about circus peanuts and orange slices?

markd:

If you're looking to become a professional developer, you can't go wrong with any of the visual studio languages (C#, VB.Net, J#). The problem with Blitz3D is that it forces you to think procedurally, and that way of approaching "professional" software development is going the way of line-numbered BASIC. Syntactically, BlitzMax is somewhere between VB.Net and C#.

Python is also a very nice language to learn to wrap your head around object oriented concepts (and it's also free). Several universities actually use that, and there's now a .Net compiler available for Python. Moving to C# from Python will be even easier.

One thing that many so-called "professionals" fail to realize is that languages are merely the conduit to bringing ideas to life.

While he didn't completely practice what he preached, John Romero is correct when he says "design is law".

I'd recommend the books "Domain Driven Design" by Eric Evans and pretty much anything by Martin Fowler to give you an edge on even the most seasoned professional.

If you can learn those concepts, that's about 80% of the battle. The last 20% will be the language you use.

Hey, good post Gnome!
I'm glad I looked here :)

No problem MP.

I should clarify that the concepts explained in those books are fairly abstract, and are skewed toward engineering robust, maintainable business software, development tools and APIs.

Games fit in there somewhere as well, but usually a game requires performance to be slightly more important. You just have to draw the distinction and how to apply it.

I'll use an example I've seen around here...

Say you're making a game about submarines, but you're hung up on what technology to use.

Domain design would make you take a step back, and tell you to define what your sub does, can't do and how it interacts with other objects (the ocean, mines, enemy subs, etc.) without any regard to how it will be displayed. It will exist as an imaginary simulation model.

In essense, under this discipline, your game shouldn't care what engine is doing the rendering, and in fact, you should be able to swap out Blitz for Torque for XNA for Render Engine of the Week X by utilizing Interfaces (or "Providers" if you're a microsoft employee) to the render pipeline. A lot of people use place holder graphics when designing games. This idea takes things a step further and suggests "why not use a place-holder engine as well?"

An interesting side effect is that it forces you to concentrate on the game itself rather than getting too worked up over how you're going to present the graphics (which are really the presentation layer).

Once one's happy with the design and engine, THEN can begin to make the code more performant.

I think the question should be "What's the ideal age to have made enough money from programming that you don't have to bother any more?"

Personally, I only got into serious programming about 24 months ago (when I was 34), before that I did some ASM on the C64 when I was about 13 or 14 years old. I started to learn C++ about 10 months ago and I reckon I'll be able to hang up my programming boots within 6-12 months.

I think the question is, do you want to learn programing? If so, give it a try, enjoy it, have a good time and relax. If you aren't able to make any good game or application it doesn't have to have any releation with your age. There are people who can't program games or apps, and there are people who can. It depends more on your way of building logical structures (in your mind, in your real life), than in your age.

I'm sure you're very proud of your accomplishments, as you should be.

That's not the point of this thread though.

Ziggy is right on. The point here is if age correlates with the drive and motivation to further yourself cerebrally... not just to make a quick buck.

Go for it I say. It does take a while to get really good but I think it's conventional wisdom that it takes about 10 years to become good ... 46 is still young these days!

My mother is 65 years old and have learned Digital TV box handling. And search for channels.. she is not interested in ditigal stuff but she still learned it by no help from me.

I belive in future maby programming will be like startreek hollydeck :) like one only speak to computer what shall hapend..

3

If you start any latter you will be crap

RocketGnome, you should seriously consider writing a book.

I'll consider it. What should I write about? :)

Yes ,you are too old -:)
It is a matter of fact that for some intellectual activities, age is a key issue
Programming is one of them
Getting old you mantain your logic capabilities , you increase your experience but definitly you lose long time concentration capability, a must to avoid silly mistakes in programming.
By the way I am older than you

"definitly you lose long time concentration capability"

I'll remember that when I complete my next pro paid project.
I'm 54.

Sod C++, go straight to C#

Based on my own experience, I'd say that's nothing but hogwash. I'm constantly correcting coding mistakes made by younger developers; the type of mistakes that lead me to believe they have practically no attention span at all.

Now if you would have said "Getting old you get more back pains, more neck pains, and have a harder time sitting at a keyboard developing for hours on end", now THAT I would have to agree with.

Mark.

What a ridiculous thing to say - you're never too old to learn - physical limitations yes - learning no.

It is simply a matter of fact
Great writers produced their masterpies when they were 50 or even older but in math or phisic it is hard to find someone who achieved great results over 30.
Obviously It does not mean that you must change your job
Didn't you see -:) ?

Kinda funny way of looking at things if you think there is a cut off point for learning.

Everything in the tech sector changes by the month. Therefore, everyone either learns something new, continually or ends up out of date. It is an ongoing, never ending process. Comes with the territory mate.

i say there is not an exact age but the state of your mental health

if you keep forgetting what you just ate half an hour ago then you are not in good mental health to learn programming

I used to have a list of people who didn't produce their great works until after they were 70! - artists, composers, etc. I wish I could find it, but my memory's going. ;-)