ELITE remake?

Hi,

now I know this remake question has been asked lots of times but here goes.

Firstly I ought to point out that I was a ***HUGE*** ELITE fan. Yes I did obtain Elite status and finished all the missions. Hell I could even take out a Fer-de-Lance when it was still a single pixel off in the distance. All this on a BBC Model B with 32k of memory, happy days...

Anyhow ELITE was my first love (erm we are talking just computer games here right) and so despite all the shabby, flashy remakes I was thinking that I now have enough skills to do a worthy remake, i.e. no flashy cinematics just good old game play, lets kill those Thargoids.

Now I don't plan a 100% copy of it even call it Elite but let's say the ships would be the same.

Also I plan to be able to land on planets and have some stuff that you have to do there too.

So the question : will Ian Bell and David Brabham sue my arse?

I'd send them an Email.

They seem friendly even though they argue amongst themselves, but i'd email to make sure.

Ian's website:

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/

Cygnus,

emailed Ian.
emailed David.

Turns out that ELITE 4 is due out in September 31st.

??? Seriously?!

Did they tell you this, or is there a web page? Man, this could be the best (gaming) news I've had in years...

A quick google showed that earlier, but I figured it was just gossip. Awesome!!! :D

Avon, there's been rumors for a couple of years now :)

It was on Frontiers forums...

But it's just rumour I believe...

ANYHOW! Let's get this thread back on topic. It's about MY Elite remake NOT Elite 4.

On a forum? Pah! I thought you got the nod from Braben himself. ;)

*gets back on topic*

I think if you give an Elite remake the same attention to detail that you do for your other projects then yeah - go for it, it would be cool. Definitely do your own take on it. Landing on planets would be extremely good. And don't do REAL space physics - do arcade game space flight 'cos it's a darn sight more fun!

Then I could enjoy playing your remake (of sorts) whilst waiting for the release of you know what. :)

You made it sound like it was an official response! :P

Avon,

the 'physics' will be like the original, so arcade like I guess, is that what you mean? Thanks for the thumbs up apropos quality. I like to think that my stuff is polished if not a little weird for some.

[off topic : enough about E4 already!]

Yeah, basic physics like the original Elite (i.e. just acceleration - lol!) would be great, not like the "realistic" physics of Frontier, which (I felt) spoiled the game.

Avon,

you got it! I *LOVED* Elite and *HATED* Frontier.

The physicis spoilt the game because they didnt work proply. When you "Local Jumped" - just speed game up in frounter, it would jump the badies one at a time, and the stop speedup cos one was close, so you only ever got attacked by one baddie at a time.

I loved Elite. I had a cga version of elite running under emulation on a 1bit Herculies card, and it was cool


Anyway someone posted on here that they had just got a job at the frounter company. About a month ago. Do A search, find who it was, and write to them

It was Ruz - topic here:

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=62042

But as Boiled Sweets has said, let's keep this on topic - i.e. his remake.

Which year? 2003?

[off topic : enough about E4 already!]

If you want to discuss E4 then start a new thread. This thread of for Boiled Sweets's Elite tribute...

Ok, there is an ARchemides site on the Web, with all the ships pre-made for you ready for download. I cannot remeber its address, but it has .x models of all the ships from the bbc b, electron and archimedies versions. Ill try and find it for you

Edit http://www.neilwallis.com/elite.htm

As to the sue thing, I dont think Bell would. But write and ask him

H&K,

now we are talking! MANY THANKS!

You will be mentioned in "the thanks"...

Well I dont mind thanks, but this time I think it should be thanks to Neil Wallis

I have emailed him for permission etc too!

Elite was great but Frontier was awesome!!

Being able to touch everything that was being displayed like a planet, sun, moon, or asteroid.

Boilded,

If you can do this, you would make me a fan.

Things I would like to see in the perfect Elite game:

1. Since GTA stole alot of stuff from elite, the new elite should steal stuff from GTA:Vice city: larger varity of ships, all areas to explore (planet surface + ocean exploration), pilot and ship seperation, first person exploration w/o ship).

2. Multiplayer but not massive.

3. Co-op piloting and naviagation. (Would be cool to get some friends together to explore the unknown)

Resources to steal from:

1. Elite of course.

2. Frontier for surface landing.

3. Starglider II for sub-surface exploring and the cool wales ;)
http://hol.abime.net/2109

4. Starflight II for planet exploration using a surface vehicle.
http://hol.abime.net/2107

5. Star Command and Space rogue for character exploration and combat.
http://hol.abime.net/2089

6. Archamedes Elite and Federation of Free Traders - Both have the best missions and AI.
http://hol.abime.net/514

7. Me - I have ton of ideas.

I hope I did not overwelm you.

Jason

Some of what you mention was available in the games Damocles (Mercenary II), and Mercenary III, which remain amongst my favourite games of all time.

However, I wouldn't want to see an Elite remake have any "on foot" exploration stuff. Leave that to the GTA's etc - Elite was always about space and spaceships.

I think landing on planets is a great thing, it gives the game a more immersive feel, but I don't want to actually get out and wander around. Plus Boiled Sweets would have a nightmare of a time supplying content for exploring individual planets! Put all that extra effort into providing more spaceship / upgrade variety, and a great trading system.

Avon,

I agree. Plus, I do not expect Boiled to accompish what I mentioned except for an Elite clone. If he tried, it might take as long or longer than Elite 4 to come out.

I'll check out Mercenary II and III...thanks.

Jason

OK let me give you a little more background to this...

I finally got round to learning how to model things. My first crazy shapes ended up in a silly screen saver (Blibs - see separate thread and sample Blibs screen shot below). These weird models were floating around in 'space'. It reminded me of my youth and of all too many all night (and I mean all night) ELITE sessions. So I added Thargoids into Blibs.

Then it struck me that Blibs was kinda turning into 3d asteroids with Thargoids, wait a minute, it's like bloody ELITE!

So my plan is to do a 'Boiled Sweets' version of ELITE. It may use the ELITE ships. It will be mainly space flight. I really want to capture that flying around shooting things aspect of ELITE. Trading will come next. Landing on planets may come later. I'll design it in such a way that these 'bolt-ons' will be possible at some later stage but my first goal is to recreate the ELITE feel and run of taking out that b*stard Thargoids etc.

Thanks for all your positive suggestions. They will NOT be ignored. This is a BIG project and I'm up to the task but tring to create a full blown trading game / space shoot-em-up and RPG from the very beginning is a little too optomistic. So I'll start with the flying about bit first. That well may take 6 months or so to get just right.

So to sum up - it will be be heavily ELITE influenced, but not an exact clone.

Hey, maybe this could help you, I posted some of this to help Edzup a while back ... he's making one too but taking his time about it ;)

Graphics3D 640, 480, 16, 1
AmbientLight 255, 255, 255
WireFrame True

;ship
Global Cobra = CreatePivot();LoadMesh( "Models\CobraMk3.x")
Global PitchSpeed# = 1.0
Global RollSpeed# = 1.0
Global Pitch#, Roll#

;camera
Global Camera = CreateCamera( Cobra ) 
;PositionEntity Camera, 0,0,-50 
PositionEntity Camera, 0, 0, 5

;scene
Global Planet = CreateSphere() : ScaleMesh Planet, 10, 10, 10 : EntityColor Planet, 255,0,0
Global Station = CreateSphere( 3 ) : ScaleMesh Station, 2, 2, 2 : PositionEntity Station, 20, 0, 0 : EntityColor Station, 0,0,255
Global Star = CreateCube() : ScaleMesh Star, .25, .25, .25 : HideEntity Star
For l = 1 To 100
	tmp = CopyEntity( Star , Planet )
	RotateEntity tmp, Rand(-90,90 ), 0 , Rand(-180,180 )
	PositionEntity tmp, Rand(-200,200 ), Rand(-200,200 ), Rand(-200,200 )
Next

;timing
Global FPSWanted = 60
Global Timer = CreateTimer( FPSWanted )

Reset()

While Not KeyDown(1)

	WaitTimer( Timer )
	
	;reset if 'SPACE' pressed
	If KeyDown(57) Reset()

	;target if 'T' pressed
	If KeyDown( 20 )
		TARGET( Cobra , Station )
	Else
		Roll# = KeyDown( 203) - KeyDown(205)
		Pitch# = KeyDown( 200 ) - KeyDown(208)
	EndIf
	
	TurnEntity Cobra , Pitch , 0, Roll 
	MoveEntity Cobra, 0, 0, .25

	UpdateWorld()
	RenderWorld()
	scanner( 320, 420 )
	
	Color 255,0,255
	Line 300,240,340,240
	Line 320,220,320,260
	
	Flip
	
Wend
End

;===================================================
;===================================================
;===================================================

Function TARGET( Source , Target )

	TFormPoint 0,0,0 , Target, Source

	RollAngle# = VectorYaw ( TFormedX() , 0 , TFormedY() )
	Roll# = Limit( RollAngle , -RollSpeed , RollSpeed )
	If Abs( RollAngle ) < 10
		Pitch# = Limit( VectorPitch( 0 , TFormedY(), TFormedZ() ) , -PitchSpeed , PitchSpeed )
	Else
		Pitch# = 0
	EndIf

End Function

;===================================================
;===================================================
;===================================================

Function Limit#( q#, lo#, hi# )

	If q < lo q = lo
	If q > hi q = hi
	Return q
	
End Function

;===================================================
;===================================================
;===================================================

Function Reset()

	PositionEntity Cobra, Rnd( -100,100 ) , Rnd(-100,100 ), Rnd(-100,100 )
	RotateEntity Cobra , Rnd(-90,90), 0, Rand(-180,180 )
	Delay 250

End Function

;===================================================
;===================================================
;===================================================

Function Scanner(scanx,scany)

	; Scanner by Timo Souranta
	;
	;Stations And planets are white because they are greater than 500t
	;Scanner size is: Scanx X -115 to Scanx +115 (with a scale of .7)
	;Scany Y -37 to Scany +37   

	Color 255,0,0
	Oval scanx-115,scany-37 , 230,74,0
	scale# = 0.7
	Plot scanx, scany
	
	TFormPoint 0,0,0, Station, Cobra
	x# = TFormedX() *  scale
	y# = TFormedY() * -scale
	z# = TFormedZ() *  scale
	x1# = x
	y1# = - z/4 + y/2
	y2# = - z/4
	If x1 > -200 And x1 < 200 And y1 > -200 And y1 < 200 Then
		Color      255, 255, 255
		If scanx+x1>scanx-115 And scanx+x1<scanx+115 And scany+y1>scany-37 And scany+y1<scany+37
		 	scn=(scany+y1)-(scany+y2)
		 	If scn>-30 And scn<30
  		  		WritePixel scanx+x1+1, scany+y1, 256*256*255 + 256*255
  		 		Line scanx+x1, scany+y1, scanx+x1,scany+y2
			EndIf
		EndIf
	EndIf
	
End Function

heh were thinking of doing something with a strong Elite influence but not quite the same thing as our big SOW game project.

edz has been doing his version nearly as long as I have been doing my moo-like game and red has been doing his submarine game... IE: never happen. :)

Stevie G,

Ta, all code donations are welcome. You'll get a mention in dispatches!

Kanati,

I would hope by now the community know I actually not only finish my projects but often work on major updates too. OK qoob is still to work in progress but that particular project is only being held back by a co-coder lacks of drive to update the gamem menu :-(

I'm getting the feeling that I may have caused a spark in the community, I can see everyone doing ELITE based games now. Ho hum.

In fact I already have my first spin off project firmly underway and is likely to be part of game engine in a stand alone game...

@Boiled

Why do you think I knew were to get the models from?

I think everyone who every played Elite wants to pay hommage in a clone.

Elite and Lords of Midnight are the best two games ever

Lords of Midnight, had that on the Spectrum..

Yeshu777,

you are posting off topic, please refrain from doing so.

I started ultimate Elite game planning with my friend about 10 or so years ago.. we did not get very far. However, I managed to dig info about planet systems a little and made little system that created solar system data from random number, I had crude planetary name generator too, or it was snapped from some elite fan site... anyway, here is link for great Elite/Elite style game resources: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/gibson/188/bits/

There is lot of interesting stuff like galaxy generetor

Have you seen this great remake, called Oolite?

http://oolite.aegidian.org/

Finjogi,

seems like some HORRIBLE adult/virus/trojan whatever is attached to your link - hmm. In fact people stay away from his link!

Foppy,

cool! I'll check it out - ta.

Elite is currently a legal minefield. David Braben holds half the copyright to the original, but Ian Bell claims to have sold his half of the rights to an unnamed party. The long running fued betwen Braben and Bell is well documented so I won't go into that. What it does mean however is that Braben is happy to allow remakes, and even wanted to open source the original code, but until the mysterious other copyright holder gives their permission even Braben isn't allowed to. This is the reason the name Elite was dropped from Frontier: First Encounters, and the reason "Elite 4" most certainly won't carry the name either.

Call it "Mostly Harmless" and when they try to sue you, point them in the direction of Dugles Adams' estate.

I wouldn't have thought that you could patent a space trading game. As H&K suggests call it anything but Elite and you'll be safe.

@ Boiled, I remember hunting the galaxy on the BBcB looking for Military lasers on every Tech10 planet only to find out Beams were the max you could have on that version. It was the first game I played where a mate ducked when a ship came flying out of nowhere. Priceless.

@ Kanati, Moo Game, do tell?

Stevie

I don't plan to use the ELITE name, Mostly Harmless is certainly a good working title, thanks H&K.

Steve G,

if you want to discuss Moo that start a new thread. I am stamping down on off topic posts.

H&K is spot on. I've tried a clone and failed. Why? Because I was too ambitious. Another reason is because I rarely finish any game I start these days!

The difference with you, Boiled, is that you HAVE finished several quality products. That's why I am trying to encourage you - I think you can do it! Just remember to keep the intial version VERY simple, and then you can build on it later.

Avon,

again thanks for the kind words. I will keep it simple, in fact to get the real basics just right (i.e. the space environment, explosions etc) I'm going to do a 3D Asteroids game first. The beauty of this is I can concentrate on the very core of the the ELITE game and iron out all the problems of getting the flying right without too much distraction. Then that 'engine' will be used in the ELITE game.

I understand why you're going to do it, but I feel you might get bogged down writing the 3d asteroids game - adding extra features and such. Just start on the Elite game ASAP.

As has been mentioned before - make the gameplay complex but above all fun.

No they can't sue you for writing a space game as long as you don't use the same name or spacecraft - come up with some wacky ships like your screensaver perhaps - or maybe not that wacky. ;-)

I have not noticed any of things you mentioned, no popups or alerts from my virus scanner.. you must be using IE :)

I will be back at me computer tomorrow, once I added the lazers to the Thargon's I will release another demo. Once that is done I can start adding the multiplayer stuff and player controls to the game engine.

I also want to sort out a sort of NPC ship generator that will allow more variety on the NPC ships. There has been a lot of planning going on trying to get the NPC's to work in multiplayer I think I have good plan about how to go about this. So once I have the basics done I can start running Multiplayer tests to see if I can get more and more players into the game. I will also add GNet support so players if they want can 'advertise' thier servers as well, this is working but as there isnt any multiplayer yet (its a NPC test atm which is going amazingly well).

Its all going well this will be the final source revision, the source will not be released with this version as it will have cheat protection added so the server can check on occasions.

Stevie G: I agree I have been coding it for ages but a game as big as Elite cannot be rushed, everyone has a vision of how a multiplayer version of Elite should look like to me it should be exactly like Elite just with multiplayer.

EdzUp,

off topic...

I disagree. I think writing a simpler game that forms the core of the "space" engine for Elite is an excellent idea.

I agree. And in fact one of the things I was always going to add to elite was proper asteroid fields

Does anyone know what happened to Arxspace?
It looked like it was going to be really good.

The website hasn’t been updated for a while.

http://www.arxspace.com/

Steve.

Mystik,

you are off topic, if you want to discuss anything other than my ELITE or Asteroids 3D projects go elsewhere. Many thanks.

Boiled Sweets: TBH since I was talking about Elite Muliplayer I thought it was 'on topic', good luck with ya remake tho :)

EdzUp,

sorry just trying to keep this thread on course. BTW your Elite link isn't working (just wondering what competition I'm up against)

If I were a better programmer I would have had a go myself. I hope you do well with this project! There are some features I would love to see, if you don't mind me making suggestions:

Multiple empires

Wars (changes safe/danger zones and alters supply and demand of certain items)

Invasions (rare missions, safeguarding or attacking troop ships, which change the ownership of the planet if they land at the planet's colonies)

Colonization (rare escort missions, spawning new colonies if successful)

Orbital Bombardment (takes ages, rare mission assist/defend mission which can result in a colony being removed)

Exploration (cash reward for charting unknown system and bringing the data back).


... a lot to ask for I know, lol

Hmmm i've enjoyed Elite quite a lot on the C64 and some time ago i started it again. Honestly i wasn't impressed anymore. There are old games which still make a lot of fun but there are also games which aren't fun anymore. Elite counts for me into the second category.

I think i could enjoy more a enhanced frontier than elite as elite doesn't offer very much for a todays comparison...

Question: Is your remake of Elite going to be freeware?

Braben and Bell have been known to come down quite hard on freeware remakes, and I'm sure they would come down even harder on a commercial/shareware one.

Remakes want to be free.

Muppet,

thanks for the suggestions, I will add them to the list. They may not hit the final game but I'm open to all ideas.

The Caffeine Kid,

no. I believe from what I read that Braben is pretty open to idea of clones, it just the 3rd party thst owns Bells half that is a bit more concerned about copies. My game will be a tribute rather than a clone, different name, different game concepts so I'm guessing that it will be different enough to stop legal challenges. I have emailed Ian and David to ask them what constitutes a safe reworking of the the game and to ask permission. If I ever get a reply I will post it here. Until then I work on Asteroids 3D.

ah it linked to CodersWorkshop which is down atm, will update the sigs when I put more content up. FYI the Elite Multiplayer link now points to the EdzUp website instead of coders workshop.

All I am creating is Elite but Multiplayer so it will hopefully have upto 64 players flying around each server :), these can be replaced by NPC's if there are any vacant slots this will keep the galaxy populated.

First screenie from my Asteroids 3D

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=62682

I always wanted to make a multiplayer dogfight type game with elite ships...

Well thats exactly what i'm gonna do

yah! So I don't need to bother now, I can just play yours...

This sounds like a fun project, good luck and I'll be watchin your progress :)

You didn't say if you were going to be charging for your Elite remake or not?

No I didn't did I ;-)

The current plan is : yes.

so is having the same ship shapes a problem? I guess not if good ole Braben gives you the go ahead.

@ The current plan is : yes,

Then you have probably got a cease and desist coming your way.

The reason so many people want to make Elite clones, yet so few do, it that there is no money in it.
You are stuck between if its too much like Elite, then you really are going to be stoped from selling it, and if its not like Elite you are competing against X3 (Or what ever)

Do it as a freeware Homage, but dont expect to be able to market it, Unless you have full permission to do so.

(I may be totaly wrong about this. But the whole site has just had a go at "Marvel" for his "lets rip capcom/Marvel" threads)

This is not going to have a happy ending for you.

They would not allow any profit making Elite like game - C&D orders have gone out to free ware remakes, so a commercial one would be stomped on from a great height.

Hmm. Well I guess this then turns into what constitues a copy? If the name is different/original and the ships are different/original then surely I'm free to do what I want?

Hmm. Well I guess this then turns into what constitues a copy? If the name is different/original and the ships are different/original then surely I'm free to do what I want?

Can't see how a space exploration game with original ships (and ofcourse name change) could be copyrighted.

I think it was unwise to draw attention to yourself by emailing the producers of Elite though.

Uhh, Boiled, watch your double posts, okay?

Sorry. Great concept with that ELITE, hope it pays off for ya.

Steve,

well still exploring this whole thing. OK so ELITE Boiled Style might be off limits but I don't think that emailing the authors (you don't know what I said to them) will harm my case.

If BOILED ELITE is out of the question for all the documented and undocumented reasons then I'll do "Boiled Invaders" instead. It'll be different enuff from ELITE that no tight f*cker will be able to complain but will win over the ELITE fans.

RAM,

no double posts, one is ELITE tribute (i.e. this thread) and the other is the spin off Asteroids 3D

no actually you posted the same thing twice about a page up. :)

haha...boiled, I say do it..f-k copyright...the freakin chinese and indian companies are stealing every copyright and getting away with it...why not you?

I would rather you make an up-to-date elite game then frontier developments elite 4...I think I'll be dead by the time thier is released.

Jason

Because he's not a nuclear power that doesn't acknowledge international copyright law.

Well originally you said you were going to use the same ships. I think that is why everyone is suggesting legal action would be taken against you.

Space exploration games are legal, Elite clones aren't. Unless, of course, you get permission from the copyright holders, and even Braben himself can't do that at the moment.

Anyone using original elite ships would get stomped from a great height by Frontier developments Ltd if they charged for thier game. This is why Elite Multiplayer is free I have an agreement with Bell and Braben that I can make it as long as I dont make ANY money on it whatsoever.

Why would you want to use similar ships anyway? Much more detailed ships can be produced these days. Varying levels of detail could be offered for slower machines though.

So I will not use original ships, no problem. I kinda wanted to design my own 'organic' ships a la Blibs anyhow.

Sp the current plan is...

1. Asteroids 3D (surely no copyright infringement there)

then...

2. Using the same engine as above, do an ELITE inspired game, new ships etc etc

one thing about the original ships is that some of them are such simple shapes that you could practically say that it's bound to crop up in another game looking almost the same anyway.

I say I'd like to see the game anyway, but avoid Elite in the title, tweak the ship designs a bit and you'll be fine.

David Brabham is probably too busy with his motorsports career to bother with e-mails. Ian Bell probably won't care since he and Braben fell out years ago.

I'd try e-mailing David Braben instead.

Gfx,

funny.

BOILED ELITE -> BOILED LEET, and your safe... and it means the same thing :)

Just as a point of interest, for those frontier fans.

Check this out

http://soul-less.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/glfrontier/

Has had me hooked for a while. SOme bugs still but pretty damn good. :-)

looks odd with high res ships and low res interface, but quite cool