Rant Time- What Your Kids Shouldn't Grow Up To Be.

that's right all you mothers farthers out there... hear me, and hear me well...

make sure your kids never grow up to be game makers...

in particular, make sure they never aspire to be sub sim game makers...

tell em to make first person shooters if they must... tell em to make cute lil 2D casual games if they have to, puzzle games, tetris clones, 3D demos... anything but a submarine simulation...

a game that'll require that they be able to not only create a believable interior to a ship... but also one in which they must create a believable expansive outdoor environment... one with believable water, fog, rain, sun, moon, day night sequences... stars...

and then, after all that's been done, then they can start working on the actual game part... the individual character animations, the logic, the explosions, the music and sound effects, the voiceovers... more lighting code...

and then, after they've gotten all that done... they're still gonna have to create the logic to allow the virtual captains and crewmen to see at least 4 nautical scaled miles out when they're on deck on the surface...

4 miles out to see a ship off in the horizon, while still viewing a believable ocean, and while still maintaining an accpetable frame rate... even for that wide exapanse of frame robbing camerarange that they now must deal with...

then, if they get that to work, someone yells open fire, and the particle candied smoke from the other ships being hit starts to rise... bogging down the gpu even more... this time to the point where it now becomes more of a slide show than a real time video experience...

... then someone clicks on the binocular view, and the camerazoom is sent up into the double digits... and the frame rate slows down even further...

and the cursing begins, as the futility of this excercise starts to become apparent...

momma told ya not to go!!!


unless you want your sons to be doomed to haunt the Blitz forums forever, in search of encouragement, and whatever code they can steal fromt he archives...

tell em moms, stay away from 3D game development tools and game engines... JUST SAY NO!!!

yell it to em... bribe em if you have to... new cell pones and ipods are more fun than gameputing...

spank em if you have to...

do what you have to, but whatever you do... don't give em the money to license any software that promises it will let em make 3D games!!!

do so, and you will have sentenced your children to grow old and frustrated... mumbling to themselves... cursing at their one and only firend, the video screen, that is making them slowly go blind...

it's too late for us... but we can still save the children...

for god's sake, save the children!!!!!


--Mike

Now I understand where that window in your Siggy is located... The nuthouse! ;)

I agree... what you may have to do is unload all when you shift to binocular view... if people are firing at you there is really NO TIME to look at the pretty guns with the binocs!!!

Above all that let go of the physics... ease off on them... or pair variables... if the motion of the wave variable is HIGH make the bob amount HIGH!!! etc.

I know you did all this... You can do it... take it slow.

Breathe!

I'd hate it if my kids starting abusing the full stop key. I guess though the solution would be to train them whilst they're young before they become too old to change their ways.

yup... it's an out take from the last Batman movie... about in the middle, right before he jumps into the Batmobile and saves the girl... he's running through the basement of the hospital, where all the nutjobs are caged up...

i'm the one in the first cell :)

the scary looking young guy is in the cell opposite mine... i think his name is ENAY, i'm not sure...



i got it all working... sort of... at least with 3 ships steaming around and making waves... but i think i'm gonna have to lighten up the particles making the bow waves...

everythings becoming a series of compromises... you get one thing working, it affects something else... i'm afraid that by the time i'm done, i'll have compromised all the good stuff right outta the game...

thx for the advice though RZ... pairing variables sounds like something to pursue...

b r e a t h i n g. . . s l o w l y . . . n o w . . .

:)

--Mike

How far have you got with your sub sim? I've seen many screenshots of subs and water, but is there any gameplay yet?

Blitz version has one level... basicly a test for new code logic... set in mid ocean with that lil island (which will be eliminated soon) that you see in some of the shots, that i use as a starting point...

3 enemy ships which do not shoot at you yet, but do turn towards you as if on attack run if they see you...

also, sub interior for control room is in place and i'm adding instruments now (graphics and models done, some graphics being improved) so that you can control the sub from inside...

also rewriting the radar code for Blitz...

in short, i'm at the easy stage now... the hardest part had nothing at all to do with the sub sim, and everything to do with making the game engine that would handle everything i ranted about above...

without my lil OOBlitz hack, i would've never gotten this far... i don't see how anyone using Blitz3d can make a large scale game at all... so much time to forget stuff, and too many chances for code to melt into a mass of speghetti without OO...

anyways... that's basically it... a series of ship encounters, cleverly set up as to be a challenge... and a scoring method to let the player progress from a brand new, know everything ensign, to eventually the captain of a sub...

most likely only single player the first version... i just can't do anymore *whine* *whine* *whine*

besides... i'm gonna have to integrate the networking code into the OO engine,a nd i've just touched on that aspect up till now... with very lil success...

i may put together a small demo to test frame rates across resolutions, as i'm interested in how it runs in 12x10...

oh... no music yet either...

--Mike

You know reading his rant now you've asked him that I fear he may just explode.

ahhh... it's ok, have no fear... that was mainly for the kiddies... i realize that it's too late for me already, the obsession has sunk it's claws tooo deep into me by now...

there is no cure but to finish it... or die trying...

if i do suffer a heart attack, or some other malady, remember me kindly... or at least curse me hard over a round of drinks at the bar...

that old fool who died at the helm of his sub...

just don't forget me...

i'll always be alive somewhere as long as someone remembers me...

:)

Red, I know that I sometimes tease you about your abuse of punctuation but I hope that you manage to eventually achieve your ambition of making a sub game. May I make a suggestion? Choose an engine and stick with it - you're going to find flaws and sticking points with any combination of language and 3d engine, so you might as well choose one and tough it out. If the gameplay is good enough then people will forgive any little problems with the presentation, particularly with hardcore simulations.

thx Luke... i'm trying... i've found a good engine... really... i spent most of today working (learning) it...

i really can't go into details, but trust me, this one is no joke... i've already created a small level that looks like Doom3...nice and bumpmapped and plasticy looking :)

but that doesn't mean i'm stopping work on what i'm doing now... too much time and effort invested... most likely the first version will be done in Blitz3D... so i plug away at it daily...

i've trimmed down the storyline (another one of those compromises i mentioned above) so that i stand a better chance of getting it done sometime this decade...

and i've even got an contingency game based on the same material as a backup... from the German perspective... it centers around Germany's last ditch effort with the new wonder subs (TypeXXIII electroboot), and follows the (short) naval career of a young naval officer as he is rushed through sub school, through his first training missions, and eventually to a few war patrols... before the war ends... or he is sunk...

sorta like the original MOH... only with water... and from the other side :)

maybe i can make that interesting enough as a stand by, just in case i start melting down before i finish the original storyline...

i've already got the model of the uboat done and awaiting final skinning...



anyways... thx for bearing with me through my time of the month, and putting up with my rant...

and good luck with your work...


--Mike

It's sort of All Ahead Full Stop really! ;O)...

:0) yup...

--Mike

tHAT POST YOU JUST MADE IS ALMOST SEX ON LEGS RED.

excuse the caps but i'm tired now and it's late, got an early start (today - in oops - 4 hours). DO NoT let detractors sway you ANY more.

All the best RED from a fellow victim of his dream.

Oh, stop moaning Red.

Just read my sig for motivation.

I think I'm going to have to buy Red's game (even though I sub sims), just because of all the pain he had to go through to make it.

man, that ship looks fantastic!

I was in a russian nuclear sub the other day, and you really couldn't see much. I did look through the periscope and check out a couple of nimitz aircraft carriers parked in San Diego bay.

it felt a lot like those old 2D sub games really.

Of course, you can still leave in the uncompromized better looking variations as well, to be automatically unlocked when the system date is 2017 and your PC will have caught up. ;-)

Continuing with what evak said... Red... You are getting too caught up in the craptastic "I want it to look superpretty" world of game design. The golden age of sub simulations was in the late 80s and early 90s. Fully fun and good looking sub games were running on 7mhz amigas with 512k of ram.

Make a fun game dammit... Add the pomp and circumstance later.

yes i am...

--Mike

well... STOP IT. :)

LOL...

sorrrrry... blame the guys who made DOOM3...

no, blame the guys who made Half Life2...

no... no... blame the guys who made Silent Hunter3...


it's their fault that i've become seduced by the bumpmapped side... addicted to realistic shadered water scenes... real time lighting...


come on now K... wouldn't you like to have access to all this neat stuff... real time lighting and shadows... bump mapping, or detail mapping...

... or the freedom not to use it, and fall back if the user didn't want it, or his/her system couldn't handle it... and still have decent looking detailed scenery and lighting...

come on now... lets get real K... what i'm talking about is a 3D game developers wet dream incarnate... are you gonna seriously tell me that you wouldn't want all this stuff in Blitz3D...

and i've just scratched the surface...

naaahhhhh... the force has me under it's power... i have seen the the true power of the dark side...

*play Darth Vader breathing sounds here*

... and i am its faithfull servant.


--Mike

Why don't you get the gameplay side running, then add the fancy graphics ;o)

a lot of the 'gameplay' logic is already implemented... what would be the point...

would you like me to whip together a small Blitz3D demo showing something... the core funtionality that is... a lil demo where a sub skipper can sail out on his sub, drive and dive it around...

i'm sure most of you guys could whip up a fps level in about 2 days... what would be the point though...

--Mike

edit - nevermind...

uuuhhhh - ditto

--Mike

um red... you are tilemapping this thing??? I mean for empty ocean that should pose no real problem... aside from the Marianas Trench run... and the occasional island shootout where depths are limited...

Are you tiling? or are you thinking more OLD SCHOOL like an Avalon Hill Sub Game? limited area and if you leave you lose???

yup... well, sorta... you could roam the world theoretically, there are no real 'borders' based on a fixed map that will end the game...

but...

1- i haven't modelled in the world... yet...

2- you must arrive at certain waypoints in order to be able to 'fast transit' to the next 'action area'...


one thing you might find interesting...

in a subsequent version of the sim, you will play a Russian sub commander, running 'Red Route 1'... a path through an underwater series of mountains and ridges in the north atlantic... just like in the movie, Hunt For Red October...
the challenge here being to evade a pursuing US sub, while at the same time avoiding running into the undersea mountains... 'like racing through the alps in a plane blindfolded'...

'submarine people' will appreciate the challenge...

:)

--Mike

Dear Mr. Red Ocktober,

almost everytime when i'm in the mood and startup an emulator to play some outdated game and those pling buing sounds tune up my soon three year old daughter runs into my room (if she's not already there) and also wants to play a bit (which means she presses some keys very enthusiastic and looks what happens then).

Have i done all wrong till today? Will this road lead us into a catastrophe?

I desperately hope you can help me, us.


Yours sincerely,

taumel

hahahahahaaa... naaah, she'll be alright...

nothing to worry about...

at least 'till she's old enough to start dating :)


--Mike

Which means this thread sould also take care of:

Beware! Watch your child's steps closely. Not that they date with omnious 3d sub game developers! Take care before it's too late and they might answer: Ohh Dad, his name is Ocktober, Red Ocktober... ;O)

Red, youre project isn't impossible, you just need to be able to stick with it. If you keep changing engines, you will never get anywhere with it :)

@Red

Don't wait for this one... ;O)

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3608&Itemid=2

definitely not impossible... but i'm not sure if the scope and granularity of the project is apparent...

seriously... direct me to a game made in Blitz3D, that is comparable to... say the original Medal Of Honor... in level complexity, action, graphics (it's a 3 or 4 year old game, so that shouldn't be a biggee to achieve), etc...

i've seen lots of promising shots in the gallery, but not one full 3d fps of any genre...

not one full simulation (similar to MS Flight Sim), or even a train sim...

now maybe i'm missing a few here, but the only things i've seen that even come close to qualifying along these lines has been a few car games... racing and a wind sailing game...

no war shooter type 3d games... no GTA type urban 3d shooters, no Quake clones, not even a good C&C type top down RTS...

now correct me if i'm missing something here... but it's easy to say this can be done, and that can be done... but i still hold that anything beyond a demo passing as a game in Blitz3D is gonna require quite an effort...


hey... since i'm making such a big deal outta all of this, maybe i'll cobble together a small demo of the Blitz3d code, just to get some feedback on a few things...

in particular, the graphics, the performance, how it runs on higher resolutions above 1024x780... stuff like like...


--Mike

There's nothing even close.

This and most other game programming communities is full of people that plan to deliver the earth - but unfortunately never seem to get beyond a few screenshots or half complete "opening levels". Finishing a game in Blitz3D that even had half the levels and content of the original Medal of Honor would be a fantastic achievement.

Of course, Medal of Honor had a lot of people working on it, and most Blitzers are bashing away in 1 or 2 man teams, and usually in their spare time, so it's to be expected really.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a knock at the Blitz community. There are some VERY talented people here, but until some of them band together I don't think we'll be seeing a truly great Blitz3D game anytime soon.

GREAT POINT #1



GREAT EXCUSE #1


unfortuantely though, and from past experience, i'm pretty much a loner in this regard... plus, only a few people could stand working with me, and they're worse A types than i am...

:)

as you can see, the part about only being a one man, or part of a small team, just doesn't wash with me... personal problems should be left at the door... if you're gonna come up with something like that, then go play a game, and not waste your time deluding yourself about making em...

... and that, in a nutshell, is why a lot of people would find it impossible to work on a project with me.


--Mike

> is why a lot of people would find it
> impossible to work on a project with me.

I'll bet it's because you break all of their keyboards from prolonged fullstop abuse.

That's a bit harsh. Who says a person is working on their game alone because they have personal issues to deal with?

It could just be that they are writing (for example) a RPG, but everyone they've approached about helping them is more interested in writing a FPS. Or they want it to be in 2D, but others want it to be 3D. There could be many reasons why someone would turn down the chance to work on someone else's game. If you were to offer me a chance to co-code your sub game then I would politely decline - not because it doesn't sound like it could be good, but simply because it isn't my thing.

Plus people's lives aren't that simple. Some of us are married, some of us have kids, some of us are still teenagers - all with different schedules and priorities. Getting two or more people to truly dedicate themselves to a project is not easy! Especially when, in 95% of cases, they're not going to be paid for it.

it was supposed to be a joke Avon... a lil sarcastic humor... get it...

personal problem... what it means is, keep everything not directly directed to the project out of the group focus, and handle it yourself... sarcasticly...


then those people should get nine to five jobs... and leave 3D gamemaking to the aged, obsessed, divorced, 2 pack a day, coke and pizza eating hackers... and go out and enjoy their life... go on a picnic, or to the beach, or something... go to Disneyland... enjoy your life...

don't waste it, or my time because you have other commitments that will interfere with my schedule...

i only want the dedicated and committed around me...

and yes, i know i should be :)


--Mike

Fair enough. :)


Isn't that what your picture is? You looking out of the asylum? ;)

now you're starting to get the picture...

:)

--Mike

All right Mike, I'm dying to know what engine you've discovered that looks so great...

Is it Unigine? Or perhaps the latest version of C4? Lawmaker? Quest3d Visual3D.NET (for you .NET developers out there) hmm...

The best looking one I've seen so far is the Offset engine.

hiya GB... this is a different thread... i'm still working the sub thing in Blitz as well... that's what this one is about...

look here for the answer...

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=62112

the first version of the sub thing will probably be in Blitz... but then again, if i can get up to speed on this new engine quick enough, that may change...

anyways... this is just my time of the month rant... and i'm catchin' it from all sides...


--Mike

Mike,

Sorry for my post in this thread. I didn't even realize you had started a thread about this. Thanks for the link. I've got a couple of other questions about this for you, but I'll post them in the other thread. Your pics look great though!

@gameboy
Offset isn't finished at all...