OT - In search of a videocamera

Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/OT - In search of a videocamera

All,

I'd like to buy a videocamera, and make some video to be burned on a cd or dvd, so that could later be played on a videoplayer.

I know that there are two branches here: one is the analogic one - that use videotapes - ant the other is the digital one.

I guess that with a digital videocamera would be easier to transfer the video file to a pc, in order to edit it and burn on a cd.

Are the digital models worth the price at the moment, or are the analogic ones still a better choice ?

How easy is to transfer a video from an analogic videocamera to a pc ? Does it loose details ?

Could you please give me some hint, and suggest some model ?

Thanks in advance,
Sergio.

I have a digital camera myself. 60 mins of uncompressed video is 13gb, so I think some form of compression is going on. However, it works great!

I dont remember which one I have so sorry for the lack of usefulness here :)

I have a sony miniDV and it's perfect. I'm not convinced by the burn-on-fly on dvd/mini-dvd, they are too 'fragile' at the moment.
I prefer recording in miniDV (digital signal on tape) and then via FireWire transfert the movie on computer...
Of course you still need a faster computer (at last 2 Ghz) and memory if you want to edit film. (the config in your sig should be enough - I have a Athlon64 3500+ 1Gb RAM + Sata HD).

The only thing to make attention is the CCD sensor (at last 720x512 pixel) to match the actual video standard. For the HD I'll wait for a 'definitive standard'.
Byez

MiniDV is by far the easiest, most robust pipeline at present. BTW MiniDV is already compressed - fully uncompressed RGB video would be about 10 times bigger than DV quality. And DVD is compressed much more even than that. Even the cheapest PC you can get today would easily edit DV, and my PC which is 5 years old does it fine.

Get a MiniDV camera.

If you need it, be sure to have "video in" as well as "video out". Cheaper models dont have "video in" which is handy if you need to transfer VHS-tapes to digital or maybe do a gameplay video (if you have a display card that has s-video/video out).

Built-in WindowsXP moviemaker has been enough for me to get the stuff out from (our company) MiniDV camera, and even do all the editing I need. Transfer starts when you plug-in your camera (with USB) and then you just tell it if it should transfer the whole tape to PC before editing etc.. really handy.

Oh, and the camera is Canon MVX 45i:

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/camcorders/0,39029965,39189366,00.htm


I know that there are two branches here: one is the analogic one - that use videotapes - ant the other is the digital one.



You DO know that "digital cameras" (MiniDV) use tapes too, right? :)

go for a miniDV camera.. they are by far the best cameras compared to the prices for dvd recorder and HDD recorders..

I got a Sony MV920 recently, and it's most excellent for the low price range which it's at.. :)

Thank you guys, so if I understand right (thanks again degac and Mustang for clarify that :-) the current stable technology is using miniDV, which is 'digital signal on tape', that means, a tape is used to store the video digital signal.

So, I'll go for miniDV then. As far as I understand, I should check this features:
- miniDV
- CCD at least 720 X 512
- USB and Firewire
- Video in and out

Well. Now I just need some model... so far I'm checking:
- Canon MVX 45 I
- Sony MV 920

I need also: cheap price, and easy of use.

Some more model to suggest ? Would you buy it from e-bay, or better get a new one ?

Sergio.

P.S.
@LarsG, are you sure about Sony MV920 ? So far I find only a Canon MV920...
???

oops.. sorry about that.. it's a Canon, yes.. :)

Panasonic NV-GS180 has a very good quality/price ratio.

Analog cameras are rare these days. Digital cameras allow to copy the material one to one, without any loss, where with analog cameras you'll have loss whenever you copy something.

If you buy MiniDV, don't worry about the pixel resolution, they all are PAL/SECAM or NTSC. Pal is 720*576, NTSC similar.

You should care about the chip. Note the better cameras have a "3CCD" logo. This means they have 3 chips, one for each color of RGB. The chips will convert light to data, sitting right behind the lense. 3CCDs will give a much better picture than one onechipper. Also important is the size of the chip(s): the smaller it is, the more noise will be on the video (on the picture, not the audio). So a CCD 1/8" is almost crap. Such a chip requires sunlight to get a halfdecent image.
A 1/3" 3CCD chip is much better and usually allows to film even in badly lit enviroments.

JoeGr is right, Panasonic offer a very good serie of 3CCD cameras. I have the NV-GS75. It was the cheapest 3CCD when I used to buy it (about 800$, now maybe around 600$). The only problem with it is the slight fisheye lense effect of the GS75. But this could be corrected with a wideangle lense adapter (that is optional). Other NV-GS cams are real semiprofessional, like the NV-GS 400, or maybe even then NV-GS-250. Not sure about the GS-180, I guess it's also pretty good.

They also allow to make photos on a Sandisc, but the quality is not very good.

The info jfk gave there is spot on. Its what I would have written if I wasn't so lazy. :)

Not sure about the GS-180, I guess it's also pretty good.

Not as good as the 200/400 but a great price for a 3CCD camera, plus judging by his posts above, closer to semar's budget.

I have a GS-180 and the 3CCD's make a difference in the color quality. I love it. I did alot of research before buying and I kept coming back to this camera.

JVC makes some good cheap mini-DV video cameras.

Thanks a lot for this *precious* info.

Two last questions then, I guess I should not worry about the pixel resolution, but only ensure that the recording is done using PAL/Secam.

That said, do I understand right if I say that one camera with 1 megapixels and another one with 3 megapixels produce the same video quality, since it relies on PAL/Secam ? Perhaps the extra megapixels make a difference only in the still photo department ?

The second question, I've seen that there are other videocameras which save the video signal direct on a mini dvd disc, instead of a miniDV cassette. Are them worth the price, or I should better stick with the miniDV cassette ones ? And if so, why - a part the price - ?

Thanks again... now I'm much more close to refine my choises.

Sergio.


Larger, higher-resolution CCDs contribute significantly to better image quality. Sensor sizes in consumer camcorders generally range between 1/6 and 1/3 of an inch, and resolutions usually fall between 300,000 pixels and 1 megapixel per CCD. When you compare cameras, look at effective resolutions instead of gross sensor resolutions. Hobbyists and semipros should opt for a three-CCD camcorder: it will deliver better color rendition and fewer image artifacts than a single CCD. Progressive-scan CCDs also produce better image quality than interlaced sensors, especially for stills. However, shooting video in progressive-scan mode results in jerkier footage; some people prefer this look for its "filmlike" quality. Read the product information carefully if you're looking for progressive scan, since some vendors use misleading language to describe features that merely imitate true progressive scan.



I *think* that higher rezz CCDs are good for image stabilizing purposes too - and IS should be on your list of features. It's hard to do filming without a tripod and since that's your usual case, get a camcorder with image stabilizer of some sort.

And get a extra set of batteries - our Canon can shoot one MiniDV cassette with one battery... so if you need more than one hour of footage (like in vacation or something), get extra juice!

Camcorder byers guide:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,125646;page,2;c,digitalcamcorders/article.html


Size Sometimes Matters
In crude terms, it can be said that the more pixels the CCD has, the better it does its job of re-creating a detailed image of the world. You might think, logically enough, that a larger CCD would be better, since it can potentially have more pixels and thus more resolution. Typically, CCDs on home camcorders are a mere 1/4-inch in size or even smaller. Professional camcorders often have larger CCDs of 1/3-, 1/2- or even 2/3- of an inch. But bigger does not necessarily mean better. First, there is an upper limit to the resolution of the video recorded to tape. For NTSC Mini DV, it could be argued that 350,000 or so pixels (720x480) is sufficient to get a good image and anything more is overkill. Second, pixel density is important. Would you rather have a 1/2-inch CCD with 270,000 pixels or a 1/4-inch CCD with 680,000?

Size, however, does come into play. With all those pixels crammed into such a tiny space on a 1/6-inch CCD, the information from each pixel tends to get mixed up with that of the pixels around it (a concept in electronics called crosstalk). With a little more room, each pixel has the breathing space to keep its signal separate from the others. More importantly, larger CCDs mean a larger imaging plane, which roughly means that a camera can have larger (and better) optics, which translates into significantly better low-light performance. A larger imaging plane also means that the entire optical system can have a much narrower depth of field, which is artistically wonderful. This is one important difference between film cameras and video: consumer CCDs are about 5-6mm in size, while filmmakers typically work with a 35mm imaging plane.

Finally, the quality of the technology is important. Larger CCDs from the early 1990s are most likely not as good as the latest chips from 2003.

Effective Pixels
What can the consumer do to sort this all out? While pixel count is not the whole picture, it is a good starting point. The next time you look at a Videomaker camcorder buyer's guide grid, look at the specs for the CCD. Note that some camcorders have more pixels than others. Theoretically, 350,000 pixels should be enough for Mini DV. It is and it isn't. First, each CCD pixel does not translate in a one-to-one relationship to a pixel on your television screen. Second, CCDs are wildly complex to manufacture, and each one has a certain percent of pixels that are broken. For expensive medical and scientific-grade CCDs, that number is very small. The CCDs in a camcorder have a greater error tolerance.

Raw pixel counts in this age of megapixels do not tell the whole story. One number (that, unfortunately, some manufacturers provide and others don't) is the Gross Pixel count and a smaller Video Effective pixel count. The Video Effective number is much more useful to us. The extra pixels in a megapixel CCD are not wasted, however, and are used for electronic image stabilization and digital still imaging.

Stabilize It
Most consumer camcorders are small handheld devices that have image stabilization technology to compensate for the motion that is inevitable with a handheld shot. As your hand wobbles in one direction, the camcorder detects the motion and moves the image equally in the opposite direction, resulting in a steady picture.

Economical electronic image stabilization (EIS; sometimes called digital image stabilization or DIS) works by sampling a smaller area of the CCD, then using the CCD to detect motion and moving the image across the chip to compensate. Clearly, it's much better to have more pixels available when electronic image stabilization is in effect. If there are enough pixels, there is no picture degradation whatsoever when you turn on the image stabilization. If your camcorder's CCD only has something in the realm of 210,000 pixels, you'll probably see a noticeable drop in the quality of your picture when you turn on the EIS and the framing in your shot will crop in slightly.

Megapixels
While television technology (standard and high definition) limits the useful resolution of video, digital still pictures have no such limitation. This is why camcorder CCDs tend to have fewer pixels than the CCDs of modern digital still cameras. It's also another reason why a camcorder with digital still picture capabilities might benefit from having a CCD with a high pixel count.

Digital still cameras have megapixel, or millions of pixel, CCDs. Inexpensive digital still cameras commonly have the ability to create pictures of three megapixels (2048x1536) or more. Contrast this with a DV or Digital8 camcorder, which only requires a maximum of 720x480 resolution (scarcely a megapixel) to make a video image. Early digital camcorders that included a still camera feature could not compete with the inexpensive digital still cameras on the market at the time because their CCDs simply did not have enough pixels. Today's digital camcorders often include CCDs with enough pixels to shoot good video and take good still images.

Three Chips are Better than One
Many high-end professional and prosumer camcorders make use of three CCD chips instead of one to create a sharp video image that's rich in color and detail. The reason three chips are better than one is due to the technology that's required to create a color image from a single CCD. It's a tricky bit of technology to separate the color information on a single CCD, one that can result in washed out colors that bleed outside the lines like a first-grader's crayon scribbles in a coloring book.

Three-chip cameras solve this problem by devoting one CCD to each primary color in the additive color spectrum: one for red, one for blue and one for green. Before light strikes the CCDs, it passes through a prism, which divides the light into its component colors. The results are crisp, clean, vibrant colors that seldom bleed. If you've ever shot video with a three-chip digital camera, you'll know what we mean when we say the results can be quite astonishing.



http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article_print.cfm?id=9782