OK, This May Be The One... Guess The Engine...

... first, then some interesting details.

(don't cheat and right click the properties)

no... really this time... this is legit... worth looking at...



--Mike

You made me cheat just by saying that. I won't give it away for those who still want to guess ;)

:) yeah... don't spill the beans just yet...

--Mike

But seriously, someone here should really make a wrapper for B3D with this :O

yup... they released an updated version, which has shader and shadow mapping support...

looking through the docs now... trying to separate the smoke and the mirrors from the reality... also looking for a sign of networking...

it looks like a solid package... with solid backing... and the price is right...

--Mike

It looks a lot better now than what I last checked....

It had some shader support last time I checked, but it was limited.
looks better now, or the artists are better

about networking, wasnt disneys mmo Toon town made with this? ( course they could have added thier own network layer)

Sam

yup... guess the cat's outta the bag... seems everyone is familiar with it...

The Panda Engine... solid support from Disney and Carnegie Melon... latest release seems pretty solid... lots of docs... a pretty active forum...

and it's free to use... a gift from Disney...

from the looks of the projects being made, it seems fit for a application to a wide range of genre and artisitic styles... and it's codable in c++ or python...

maybe this is really worth taking a look at... someone see if GMan is busy :)

** added **
seems like the net code is there... just not fully documented...

--Mike

Yes, it looks very nice. Of course, last time I checked it was horribly slow performance that was the issue with this engine, not how good it looks. Also, since this project looks head and shoulders better than anything else made with the same project, I'm forced to ask if the shaders this demo is making use of for normal mapping, High Dynamic Range and Motion Blur are actually part of the engine or custom shaders. If the former, it's interesting. If the latter, it really doesn't say anything for the engine as any shader capable engine could do the exact same thing.

Also has anyone looked at the manual? Specifically the class list. It's freaking huge. TV3D took me bloody ages to wrap, and this looks like much, much more work than that even.

yeah... it's quite extensive... looking at it now...

ooop, sorry Gabe... forgot that you are experienced in wrapping these apis as well :)

--Mike

Gabiel, I'm telling you right now I would pay right away for a nice B3D wrapper. And there's nothing to lose since it's free, right?

this one may be worth it... no kidding around this time... even though i don't currently hold a BMAX license, i'd also be willing to contribute to the effort myself...

--Mike

Why BMAX? B3D needs it more :P

Otherwise I would probably just get the TV3D module for Max if both were for Max. Why Panda3D when you got TV3D?

B3D wrapper ftw.

i've been over to the TV boards this morning... and it still aint ready to go prime time yet... only hope is that they may release it feature incomplete so that licensees can get their project out before next 4th of July...

this one is feature complete... feature rich... and ready to go...

--Mike

And it's made by a huge corporate company that needed a stable engine for a paying MMO. Hmm..maybe this is promising.

MAKE A WRAPPER GABE!!

If not, we'll have to learn Python heh.

Yes, I'd pay for the B3D or Max wrapper. Panda looks much more promising than before and it's free. :)

Barney

Sorry, I barely get time to work on my game lately, and I still have the TV3D wrapper to support. If someone picks up the ball and wants some advice or tips on how I did things with TV3D or HGE then that's fine. But an engine like this is just a huge, huge amount of work, most of it very boring and not particularly difficult and I can't take that on now. Sorry.

Your loss ;)

*big10p's head explodes with the thought of all the 3D engines out there

i have no clue before cheating but dang that is really nice

hey i understand... he's got his work to do... can't go off chasing every wild goose that comes along...

besides, after reading through the manual, this one seems almost too easy to pick up...

would've been nice to have a friendly bmax interface for, but no biggee...

--Mike

You know Python already, Red? Or C++?

Well I think it's primarily meant for Python since it comes with its own Python editor.

c++... python should be a snap to pick up... i'm working the tuts from this thing now...

it seems like a cross between Torque and Irrlicht... you can code it (the engine) in c++, and your games in script...

... and the structure is a irrlicht like scenegraph... really straight forward.

if i can figure out how to bypass the script engine, c++ will be fine, but it looks like there's a lot of reason to code games in Python... lots of usefull classes and utils arlready set up...



--Mike

What I find disappointing about these rendering images is that they usually don't account for important aspects of a game engine. They might have a lot of rendering options, but they usually lack important scene optimization, like a good portal or BSP system. You can kind of tell when their demos are just a single room, or a beautiful rendering of a single object.

Torque is the only engine I can think of that shows off an entire scene, but that engine is also painfully slow and outdated. A good rule of thumb is that a product's demo is indicative of the best you can do with it. The author would have pushed the system harder if there wasn't some limitation that prevented it.

you know... i tend to agree with you josh... but i'm gonna put a lil faith in Mickey Mouse here, and spend a few hours with this one... just to see what, if anything, it has to offer...

--Mike

Portals and BSP's are pointless if you don't have a first person camera ( or close to ) because there's nothing to occlude. Top down, 3/4 cameras, anything like that and you're rendering everything within the frustum so any time you spend calculating vis is time wasted. So you'll generally find that in engines which try to force you to make one type of game. Just like Torque, perfect example.

Having downloaded and taken a quick look at this, as far as I can tell, all the good stuff has to be written yourself using custom shaders. There are some included shader effects but only a couple are impressive.

Also, I tend to agree with Mike, now that I've looked a little more. I don't see any point using this with C++, Blitz3d or BlitzMax. If you want to use it, script it in Python. It's really been designed assuming you will and I have a feeling you'll be trying to force a square peg into a round hole if you try to go another way with it.

In a top-down game, you still need a vising system to group objects by. That way you can dismiss large chunks of the scene, instead of frustum-testing every individual object.

Hmm well if I can find a SMALL book for Python, then I should be set to test this thing out lol. Big books never get finished.

just go through the tut in the getting started manual...

you can learn python later... many web tuts on it (i hope) :)

--Mike

Well yes, but that won't be portals or BSP. For that you'd want octree, or something like that. Ok, I suppose an engine could theoretically implement three or four different methods of visibility/occlusion but even then they run the risk of implementing in such a way that some people end up having to roll their own. I just think it's something that a game programmer should be doing, because it's often going to be game-specific.

hey IK... i got the basic grassy scene with a camera and panda walking around up and running...

this is too much :)

so far... me likey...

--Mike

I have a feeling your "Search for Engine" quest will end onyl when Max3D module comes out, Mike. Accept it. It is your destiny to create your U-boot game in Max3D. Right? :-)

Barney

And while you wait check some nice sub pics here:
http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/sea/page3.htm

hahahahaaa... you may be right B...

only da shadow knows for sure...

:)

--Mike

Looking good Mike, watching with interest.

Could you use a hand with the stuff I do, allowing you more time to do the stuff you do? The offer is there if you want, and you already got my mail addy.

Mike, can you please compile the quick demo you made and upload it?

i've still got your number Ian... thx...

development of the subsim hasn't switched from B3d yet... i'm just playing around with Panda right now... still an unknown quantity...

there's a lot you gotta go through with a programming language or game engine before you've established that comfort zone with it to be able totrust it for actual development...

... but so far, this is verrrry clean.

IK... sure... lemme see what i can do... it's not as simple as B3d compile exec button :)


--Mike

ok IK... i didn't get the whole installer thing to gen a installer, so i zipped up the tmp...

click on runmain.bat to see the program run as it is right now...

oh yeah... here it is--> http://home.att.net/~mikey102/packpanda.zip

--Mike

Python is extremely easy to learn. My last full-time job was almost exclusively Python.

The way OO is implemented is very elegant. Performance is very good, and there are enhancers such as Psyco that make it run about as fast as native code.

The only thing you'll be put off by (at least initially) is it's use of white space. Structures are defined by indenting. Once you get used to that, it's not bad. In fact, the indentation makes everyone's code the same.

If Microsoft would devote some time to IronPython (Python.Net) I could see it developing a large following very quickly.

Mike... Do a google on "py2exe"... That will lead you to what's needed to make re-distributables/deployments.

Doesn't work Mike =/

I think youll need python installed IKG,
(I havent tried it yet...but from RocketGnomes post i would guess Mike didnt include an Executable)

Sam

ahhh... that may it it, Sam is probably right... sorry,

i'll try to get enough read today to put up an executable... that's at the end of the manual, and i've only just gotten past the first couple chapters, breezing through those at that...

basically, it's just a lil bit of code that validates the scenegraph that i read about, and exposes a few simple and straight forward script commands and conceptual things... it uses the provided models to
get a simple scene up and running...

i did all this in about 20 minutes, after the install... that's pretty decent considering that there's a few things that went effortlessly into the scene, that usually gives gamemakers a lot of headaches... for example, the alpha in the oversized grass...

i'll take down the zip now and put up a quick video of what the scene looks like (coming in a minute)...

the short (500k) vid--> http://home.att.net/~mikey102/Panda3d.wmv


thx RocketG for the info... i thnk that the Panda package has provided everything i need, i just don't know how to do it yet... but i will also google py2exe... a lil additional knowledge is a good thing...

about the scene... there's no shadows in there yet, and it's a pretty simple deal... consider what other engines have you doing in your first few minutes of using them... HULLO WOYLD...

this thing really has been pretty easy so far... over the weekend i've gotta learn python scripting... the concept and the syntax... and take some time to read the manual for Panda...



--Mike

Did you know that '...' is the equivalent of trailing off into silence. It is often used to show that you are lost for words, falling asleep, suddenly caught up in a daydream, absent minded or maybe stoned.

Examples:

"I'm not sure what to say..."
"Now where did I put my car keys..."
"Ha! Your puny tranquilliser darts won't... work... on..."
"I wonder what it would be like to win the lottery..."
"Duuude..."

Are you sure you're them correctly? Do you use them when you're not sure whether or not to use a full stop, comma or semi-colon?

Sorry, this just drives me crazy. Dunno why.

you have issues Luke... it's quite obvious that you do...

but regardless, this is a thread about the Panda3D engine...

please start a separate thread to voice your misinformed and narrow minded viewpoints, and don't try and hijack this one with your foolishness... ok...

some people may be more interested in looking at Panda3D and comparing it to what we have now in Blitz, as opposed to speculating on the syntax and grammatical inferences of my use of ellipses, in this, what is euphamistically termed, a chat forum...

please try and respect their rights to carry on a discussion, uninterrupted by the grammatical right...

in short... go play someplace else...

... could ya, huh.


--Mike

hahahaaha..Red you cool...hahahahaha..oh myy :))

Luke, you're slightly off:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis

:) Just had to... (pun intended)

Anyways, does Panda do water? I'd think that it would be a must for you Red.

yeah... i'll be looking into the water capabilities as i pick up more and more of this Panda thing...

--Mike

Mustang, yeah I know. I was trying to simplify it for Red. In my examples you'll find pauses, unfinished thoughts and exanples of trailing off into silence. Trust me, I'm a linguist. :p

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to the topic at hand!

Um, I've heard that a Panda eats shoots and leaves, or eats, shoots and leaves. I suppose it all depends on the mood and needs of the animal at the time.

Beside of anything else it's win/lin only and so rather useless for my needs.

I'm counting the months till i'll be able to guess one right! ;O)

OSX as well... go over to the forums and search for OSX... there' activity going on there, though it' not prime time ready just yet...


he knows better than that Luke... you weren't trying to simplify anything... simple is as simple does... and you were already operating at the zenith of your capabilities... the facts Mustang made aware to you must've rocked your world off it's foundations...

hahahahahaaaaa... don't even try to suck it up... you've been pwned... now go in the kitchen and fix my dinner :)



--Mike

Yes, sir! :D

:)

good man Luke... you take it like a man...


--Mike

@Red
Thanks but for the moment i'll go with sw3d and unity and wait for max3d and director11. That's enough for me right now.

The only one i think i would switch immedately for is if there would be a new .werkkzeug release...*dreaming*... ;O)

hey... keep us up to date with your progress using Unity... i, for one, would like to see what you're doing with it...

besides... at this rate, it'll be Christmas, and Max3D will be here before we know it :)

--Mike

I think Mike just played to many 8bit games ;)

most characters in older console games (before voice overs) talked like William Shatner..

Ill try and check out Panda later on today Mike ,
But keep us posted if ya Run into any problems with it.

Sam

:)

i'm looking at the Unity Site right now... i'll be working with Panda later tonight...

taumel should've shown us all the neat stuff they're doing over there...

you can view the demos over the web, in a browser window...

check out this... http://harpsicleharps.com/forest/foresttest.html

--Mike

Hey this is unfair as i didn't wanted to spoil the forum with unity stuff but if you want some examples then simply go to the showcase forum via http://forum.unity3d.com/viewforum.php?f=4 and see for yourself.

its for comparison purposes only... i'm sure they wouldn't mind...

besides... there are no defectors online in this forum... are there... for sooth, not here...

:)

--Mike

I remember Unity. I got so excited about it before finding out it was only for Mac.

Python has always been very ill supported on the Mac, especially in the game development arena.

But since they have a Linux version of Panda3D running, I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to get the core library to compile under OS-X since it's not that far off from Unix.

Well, for me the big difference is "no more waiting" is needed for unity since 1.5. They provide today. Not everything i need and want is already implemented but they do make updates and next version will be the bugfix release 1.5.1 and after that 1.6 with new features and so on. Working hard on the Betafront to convince for certain things... ;O)

If i need something to wait for in my opinion there are better things to come than panda3D. And keep in mind unity isn't just a graphics engine. It's a gamengine with all the rest of the stuff. I need something which works and if not that i do have someone to communicate who fixes this then.

yeah, there are always gonna be better things to come... but lets deal with what's here now... ready for use... Panda3D qualifies...

it is also backed by the big Walt...

--Mike

I wonder were Walt would be without Pixar...

Maybe i'm wrong but i got the picture that they don't put much effort into it anymore.

I tried some of the unity demo's, they dont run all that well, are they better on Mac?
The panda demo's run fine, but thats all ive gotten around to doing.

Sam

Unity seems the most promising of all. Just need a mac to use it..

LawMaker is the only one.. worth buying under $$$$$$.

Are they still offering the Eval of lawmaker Alienforce?


Sam

@Zmatrix
What have you expirienced excatly where?

Yes you can still get evalution kits from Darkroomstudios.
Go and get one now .... :)

@taumel
The unity demo's on the site,and the link Mike posted.

really slow here..to the point that it stops responding.

It might just be me, thats why I ask.


Sam

Hmm if i remember right i haven't noticed such things. Depending on the complexity i could take a little bit of time before the demos start (if we're talking about online) as it's jit compiled.

Have you tried out one of mine ( http://spielwiese.marune.de/_uni/index.html )? At least there i could say that it's running well on my mac and pc...

What kind of specs do you have?

all of yours seemed to run fine when i last looked at em... and the landscape demo i mentioned above seemd to run ok as well...

1.8GHz, celeron, GForce6100, XP

--Mike

Seems to be a shader problem, Ill update drivers later and try again.
I dont seem to get any lighting at all in the parallax mapping demo, But they do run much better.

3.4 athlon 64 1gig ,geforce 256meg 6800gtxoc

Sam