Project planning

As mentioned in a previous thread, I am making a game at uni and I would be interested in hearing how people here go about planning a project (I know a few of you sell your games, so im guessing planning is an important part of making a successful product)

Ive already bought a book (Rules of Play) but I would really appreciate getting an alternative opinion.

Ta!
-Chris

Well I think that planning should be a very large percentage of the total time on the project. I mean planning in detail to the point where the coding is just filling in procedures you've already planned and testing them. It may not seem as much fun this way, due to not feeling like you are on an adventure and anything can happen, but it's more professional for sure. It also means that if 80% into the plan you realise you need to rethink some earlier stuff, you don't have to recode it, or worse, bodge it.

I used to not plan as a hobbyist and it's fun, but nothing got finished. A plan is also a motivational tool as you can see what to to next and cross off stuff you've already done.

Ta! Nice one :)

Would it be alright to maybe quote you on some of the points you have made (a huge part of the project is the development blog that goes with it)?

sure. not sure that I said anything that good...

I probably plan things a little way ahead, and then let things evolve as I go along. This probably not a good way to work. You can quote me on that! :P

Another important thing when planning is to have a Wish List section so that you can log an cool ideas you have but don't really think you'll have time to implement. This stops you trying to code them during your initial flurry of excitement. Also sometimes you'll move stuff from your main plan into the wish list section, and some stuff out of it as you progress. Plans should be flexible to a certain extent. In fact I found myself thowing away tons of graphics, code, ideas etc that just plain didn't work or weren't good enough in order to optimise the game to be the best it would within the available timescale. Never cling onto stuff just because it took ages. If it's rubbish it needs to be ditched and replaced with something better - being honest with yourself is important.

haha thanks Grey/Big ;)

The part specifically I liked which I had never actually thought about but is very true is "A plan is also a motivational tool"

but I'll be picking through lots of things. The more sources of research I can show the easier it will be to get marks for the report that will go with the project.

EDIT> There's some good stuff in what you just posted too, thanks

As well as Greys "wish list", I wld definitly have a "Its got to be there" list. (Ie prioritise everything into how really nessesary it is)

not having completed my main project yet, all i could possibly offer is negatives on how not to plan a project... lets let the positives flow first...

:)

good luck

--Mike

I'm sure big10p will testify that the biggest obstacle to finishing a game is not the langauge, the technology, your skill, the graphics/sound/music etc but actually your motivation. Anything you can do to keep your motivation going EVERY DAY for months is vital.

Yeah as H&K says, prioritise. I have the plan split into sections like core code, graphics, sound, music, screens, gameplay etc and then each is split into High/Med/Low sections. Often the low stuff never gets done or get's moved to the Wish List. You need to constantly review your plan and check it's up to date, reprioritse, and then tackle the next essential thing on the list. Also fix bugs moreoreless when you find them, don't log them for a rainy day.

Actually I think that planning and self-management is a vital skill that many people lack and that can take a while to develop. I think it should be taught in the first year of university so that the remaining years are easier and that people can start working in an office/team-environment or solo but with the correct skills. I've seen so many people with qualifications that couldn't plan/manage their way out of a paper bag...

I'm just not as disiplined/organized as someone like Grey. The most important aspect to me is to express my creativity. Then again, I'm only in this lark as a hobby, at the moment. If I had to, I could probably force myself to be more disiplined. Probably. :)

I'm going to stick my head out here.
When you are planning the project, write in english Psudo code what you want each bit to do, before you code it.
In a sence pre remark your code before you write it.

Also when doing the coding, just start with the objects and methods empty and check that it compiles, then gradually fill in each bit and test, rather than spending ages making a complex object hoping it will work first time - it rarely does.

Take what you think you can use from XP. [a http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=U&start=3&q=http://www.cse.ogi.edu/2020vision/Black.pdf&e=15235&ei=9VmTRPCoLbTOYfa05bEB]Dr. Andrew Blacks[/a] presentation might be a good place to start.

Thats the key, imo.

Check out this book, it seems to be very informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man_Month

Unfortunately, I can certainly testify to this. :( Motivation is vital so any techniques you can identify to keep your motivation high should be embraced.

Well not EveryDay, you can skip Tuesdays
Seriously thought there is no point sitting at your computer for hours and hours doing nothing. If you are going to do some programming, then do some. If not then play half-life or go the pub.
This is were the list of everything you want, (Or the skellital program as Grey suddjests), will come into its own.
If you cannot make the big whatsit turn it thingy upsidedown, (Or whatever), do somthing else, dont just sit there.

An RPG in a week, starting from scratch? How hard could it be?

I found this useful

This is great stuff - thanks to all. :o)

Do any of you use any particular tools to help you with your planning? Any of the myriad ToDo programs or something similar that you find assists you?

Nice link thanks Regular K, I just read the summary. I managed a team of delphi developers, and later helpdesk staff and installers for years and you learn a lot that way. Don't forget that finding out how *not* to do stuff is pretty useful :-)

H&K: good link too thanks!

I don't plan at all really. I just jump in and start coding. I see making a game as more like sculpting with clay - I'll add bits, take bits away, change bits etc.

I don't believe original games can be designed ahead of time. The only way you know something is fun is to make it and play it.

If your game *has* been designed in detail before you start (either it's a copy of an existing game or you are just incrediby confident in your design) then yes, it can be reduced to an engineering job. Not my cup of tea.

Ah, glad it's not just me that works that way, then. :)

That's my point really. There are many ways to work - no need to feel that you are doing something wrong. Some of us are sculptors some of us are engineers.

Actually interestingly, most of my talk about planning etc has come from experience of making enhancements to commercial applications. These things can be planned very precisely and engineered. However, I too enjoy a bit more of a "sculpting" feel to making games. But I still like to have an overall plan, and to plan bits that I'm about to code. But I'm not averse to changing the plan if something doesn't work well or isn't fun for example, in fact this is essential for games.

@John.
This is his final year Uni Project. Whilst "Just Jump in", is a good way to learn to swim. In this case I think he would be better abvised to write everything down.

The best way, as they say, Is the one that suits you best,
(I dont plan, Or Comment a lot), Except when its some sort of test.

And Its the "Vision", that makes a better programer. Not their technique at showing you it ;)

Well, I definately fit in the sculptor category, rather than engineer. I usually come up with ways to do things simply through experimentation. I've had ideas before that sound great on paper, but simply don't work when implemented.

Thanks all, really good stuff :)

LineOf7s
I recently had to make an animation in maya ( http://www.34rushmead.f2s.com/chris/Web_Portfolio/work_maya.html ) and my planning involved writing down everything I had to make on a4 paper and sticking it on the wall behind my monitor. As I went through I crossed everything off.

It worked a treat, so i did the same for my revision (though i dunno how well that went, yet ;)

Again, thanks everyone, this is really useful.