Speaking of upgrade or die...

[a http://news.com.com/No+fix+for+critical+hole+in+Windows+98,+ME/2100-1002_3-6082307.html?tag=nefd.top]Microsoft are at it again[/a].

Windows 98 though. They aren't going to keep updating an old OS forever.

Me edition isn't that old though.

Technically they're killing 9X core and trying to switch all users to NT based OS.

So what? Windows XP is an impressive operating system - use it. Backward compatibility can only take you so far - you have to move forward at some stage to avoid legacy inefficiency.

I'm more concerned about the latest MS Updates - which all failed instantly and told me to use Automatic Updates instead. Which worked fine.

>Me edition isn't that old though.

How old is 'that old' ? It's like 6 years isn't it?

The company I do Delphi contract work for still (very successfully) sells stock control software developed initially in windows 95, in fact I was there at the start 10 years ago this July!

No problem with M$ in this case. Just look at a) the market share and b) how old the 9.x versions are. You need to improve your bashing skills! ;O)

OK. Who's got a car > 6 years old? What if you were forced to upgrade? It works fine (mostly) doesn't it?

Hope my school PCs get affected by this (if the router is that bad), I'd love to get rid of the Win98 machines that still plague 2 of our 5 computer labs.

@Grey
Cars and OSs are kind of different, aren't they? It's like you would compare man and woman, won't compute... ;O)

I guess so. Maybe it's like DVD players. a 6 year old one doesn't play anything of dubious origins + MP3s DivXs etc. In fact I need a new one, el cheapo, that handles it all.

I experienced this CD/DVD dilemma with some friends of mine. Mostly cheap players give up over time. My over 20 years old reVox still plays everything i throw at him...payed out very well!

DVD of course adds the additional format problems...

>OK. Who's got a car > 6 years old? What if you were forced to upgrade? It works fine (mostly) doesn't it?

Funnily enough I have a a pint of milk that's no good after 6 days. Bloody cow$!

6 days...what a long cycle...tell this a mayfly! :O)

You can buy vintage computers on Ebay...perhaps there is someone that will buy your left over milk?

I think Microsoft are right here. This is a problem due to criminal intent. (Ie someone delideratly trying to 'Comendeer' a PC)

Its not a fault in windows realy, ie Its not microsofts fault. They have pointed out how to protect the computers, and have appologiesd. (To customers that havent bought one of there products for nearly 10 years in some cases).
So I dont think you can blame them.

Well... A friend of mine just purchased a new TV set and there's a prominent line at the beginning of the manual that says: "Lifetime of this product is 5 years". Regarding cars, most cars are supported for ten years after production stopped as it is required by law in lot of countries. After that the manufacturer is no longer required to give any support.

Barney

Everything has a certain lifespan, get over it.

And while we're at it - a lot of you guys have exceed your livespan timeout, so how about to get rid of you?

You all don't get it, right? How much does it take to close the stupid Netbios Port that is once again subject of this panic ad? Zero $ for a nice firewall? Rename VNBT.386 to VNBT_ms_sucks.386none ? Seriously, XP has much much more security problems than win98 ever had. There are just another 21 new vulnerabilities.

I cannot understand you guys. Why don't you realize: the more powerfull the monopol of MS is, the less quality they will produce. One day they gonna sell you *.

This:

Can be translated to "Gimme your money, dummy!"

This is only a guess, but I am pretty sure this is exactly the way it is:

XP requires socalled "generic host" dlls to access the web. When you don't give it web-access then there's nogo. Generic host actually is truely dynamic since it isn't a static library. It could be anything. A fruitcake, a homeland security backdoor, whatever.

When you use a fresh win98 install witout any downloaded apps that could be unknown trojans, and add a firewall and Antivirus software, finally disable netbios as it was mentioned before, I am sure this is much more secure than a XP SP2. I am sure some organisations can "log in" in every XP if they want, but not in all Win98 machines. That's why they want you to use an OS they can penetrate. Not becuase they care about your wellness.

Example given: as long as I don't use the browser there is ZERO process trying to access the web on this 98 machine. Where on XP a dozen shady processes are trying to connect to the web even already during the boot sequence.

Of course in some situations you need to use XP. EG. for video editing cause of the filesizes. Or maybe some apps want it and you have no alternatives. And the Multiuser enviroment is surely better than the one of 98/ME.

But I really don't get why some people can be XP Fans.

EDIT: of course, there is a livespan and win98 is way too old. The only problem is: XP is no option, due to what I said before.

EDIT2: well this Patch is about the internet explorer (that is a frontend of the Explorer.exe - a stupid concept anyway)
so Win98 users should not worry too much, simply never ever use MSIE.

And btw. the first thing you should do after installing a Firewall is to permanently deny internet access for msie, explorer and all other MS apps, like outlook, messenger etc.

One day life will get rid of me ;P

I know what you're saying but you don't have to use Windows at all if you don't want to.

jfk, We're not all fretting about this because we've moved on from an 8 year old OS. You can be as paranoid as you like about Microsoft - and yes, there are some good reasons to be, but this really isn't one of them.

Of course they want you to upgrade - they are a business. And of course they will drop old OS's after a certain period.

>EDIT: of course, there is a livespan and win98 is way too old. The only problem is: XP is no option, due to what I said before.

Funny? I seem to be using XP here without any problems. I don't have any virus, I haven't been hacked. My data is still here. And I've been using it for years. It certain *seems* to be 'an option'. What am I missing?

>And btw. the first thing you should do after installing a
>Firewall is to permanently deny internet access for msie,
>explorer and all other MS apps, like outlook, messenger etc.

Well that would be stupid seeing as I use all those apps every day. Without any problem. And my PC is on (and online) 24/7.

Paranoid nonsense.

Not for ever. But asking them to keep doing it for as long as they promised, doesn't seem unreasonable.

I'm not against what they're doing, I'm against the way they're doing it.

Except the XP patch was a lot of trouble too (which you would know if you had bothered to read the article). How long do you think it'll take Microsoft to go back on it's promises for XP?

Yup. And Windows Me hasn't reached the end of its five year mainstream support lifespan for another 2 months.

Remember WinModems and WinPrinters? Affordable modems and printers that sold by the bucketload, because the Windows driver did the lion's share of the work. Think they work under XP? Guess again.

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Listen, while I realize that this fact is oblivious to everyone at Microsoft, the threats posed by security vulnurabilities do not come from people running the latest version of a given software, patched up all fine and dandy. It comes from those who aren't.

People may want to look at this link for other O/S products, and how long they lasted before hitting end-of-life.

http://www.softwaredevelopment.ca/fyios.shtml

If I have to read an article to find problems. There are not really problems are they? XP might not be perfect, but it seems allright to me.
If they "Promised" to support an os for a certain length of time then they should. But they are not "not" supporting 98 here. They are simply not changeing it. (Because they know they will only make it worse)

Microsoft are not my faviourate company, but the are not dishonest ALL the time.

As you may know, a good hacker will never let you know if he was inside your machine. So maybe there are "no problems" on the first sight. But if you start scratching on the surface and dig a little deeper you'll realize you were missing 90% of the facts. It isn't paranoid nonsence. There are 200 plus significant to fatal security vulnerabilities in Windows XP, but of course you may say there are no problems and everything is save. I would seriously consider this "Loss of sense for reality".

By systematicly implementing backdoors, microsoft upgraded their position in a economy-controled international society to an important surveillance tool for police states, therefor ms became a true factor of power.

That's politics. They do whatever is possible, and this surely is possible.

Absolute Cobblers.

I've been using XP on a number of machines since whenever it came out. When are these "dangers" going to kick in?

Pure fantasy.

>>When are these dangers going to kick in?<< This sounds to me like somebody who never locks his door. Maybe nothing's going to happen for a long time, but one day somebody will steal all your stuff when you're not at home.

Leaving the door open is like playing russian roulette. The web is international territory, so living in canada is no excuse.

The point is, did you investigate your port activities? Do you really know what's going on? Or do you say it only because nothing obvious happened so far?

Remember the HL2 Sourcecode leak? Or the hacked accounts of Kofi Annan and Co. at the WEF meeting? Only a few examples of dangers. Obviously you missed it. Paranoia is a serious mental health problem. Telling somebody who is taking care not to be smashed by a bus when he crosses the street he was paranoid is probalby not the right choice of words IMHO.

Windows 98 was actually released in *gasp* 1998 so it's actually 8 years old. Expecting Microsoft to keep updating an 8 year old product for the small minority of people still using it is unrealistic.

If you are worried about the lack of updates, upgrade, for some reason people seem to think that with a Microsoft product they have a God-given right to free updates forever. You would not expect this if you bought your product from any other company.

Darkheart

>Obviously you missed it. Paranoia is a serious mental health problem

Not in the context I'm using it.

>The point is, did you investigate your port activities? Do you really know what's going on? Or do you say it only because nothing obvious happened so far?

Yes, I've investigated everything. Nothing is going on.

Nothing is causing problems. XP is perfectly good OS which works.

Well, I'm still using win98 and this 'issue' doesn't bother me at all. The OS is getting very old and to fix the issue is too big a problem? Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe I've just been supremely lucky but I've never had a problem using IE, OE etc. Gasp!

Anyway, now that I'm behind a router/hardware firewall, I'm even less bothered.

Agreed, I mean, running a 8 year old OS may be fine for some people, but the vast majority of users run newer OS's, and don't forget, Microsoft are building a new one... It makes sense buisness wise to keep all available resources working on the most popular versions of Windows, as well as spending time trying to make their up and coming one as secure as possible when launched!

Dabz

Of course I don't expect any free updates for Win98. I only said XP is no option for me. If you like it, ok. It's a funny thing with those opinions: everybody has one.

Right now it seems this vulnerability affects not only MSIE, but Windows on a low level. So the remaining stability of win9x may be killed ultimatively. "Cool" people already seem to spread copies of this new malware on webpages all around.

If this cannot be fixed then I'm definitively gone to an other OS, wich I guess will be Linux.

Windows 98SE wasn't, and neither was Windows ME (2001).

Except it's only 5 years since they stopped selling it...

I think you need to read up on Steve Gibsons "An Observation about the nature of 'Security'", which (amoungst other things) states: