AI

Blitz3D needs an AI library !!

type Main
Screen:3DLandscape = New 3DLandscape(Moon)
Sound:SurroundSound = New Souroundsound(Moon)
Aliens:AI[] = New AI(Enemy)[100]
end type
MyGame = new Main
while Player= true
Do game
wend

Well, if he is talking in terms of 'Dark AI' then I would agree.

Yes Dark AI
I have DarkBasic Pro
but i like B3D better

Can someone explain what Dark AI is?

Its an Ai extention package for dark basic

Edit.(A long time later) You are obviously asking because you cannot figure out for yourself what it is (HAHAHAHAHAHAH RAFL) ;-)

I figured that part out H&K

http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=dark_ai

Looks pretty cool, someone will probably make something similar to that once Max3D is out. I hope, or else I will have to do a horrible job at it.

Why would you want a generic programmed system for such a broad field in gaming? I guess its cool that it's built in, but it's not like you can write an AI that fits all games..

It would be nice to have the pathfinding at the least.

Path finding is easy. Look up "graph traversal" on google.

B.R.A.I.N.S

Buy a book! "Programming AI by example" is great!!!

@Zenith hahahahah, this is the game creators we are talking about. Its not built in, you have to buy it seperatly.

I dont know... it just seems to me that every game type has a specific AI requirement that I cant see being bottled up into a package... I CAN see; however, AI supporting tools to assist is creating the AI such as path finding algos etc...

What DarkBasic is doing is brilliant, we DO need more packs like these for Bmax.
They're generic enuff to use in about any project and very powerfull..
Only a very small percentage of programmers here can actually code a decent pathfinder and even less a physics pack..

Don't go, oh you're just asking for a create game button, it's a perfectly valid request!

Look at the Unreal engine and tools, they have all that plus matinee and god knows what other helper tool and you still have loads to do to create your game..

I agree with Sashnil, if it's passable for programmers to use a particle library (Like Particle Mania over at CW), why not a AI lib... I mean, creating particles in a game is a much easier programming task then creating AI anyway, so where's the fuss?

Dabz

@Sashnil

Unreal is a game in itself... and thus the AI engine is designed for that environment... Blitz is used to code vastly different game types and the object management code for any particular game will generally be VASTLY different.

So what I was saying is that having the helper functions to create your own AI is great... but I just cant see a pre-packaged AI system unless it also incorporates the game object management code and environment to support it.

@Sashnil and Dabz,

My understanding is that these packs are not written by "The game creators" directly, but rather by their usesr base. Which "TGC" promtly package and sell.

BRL's policy seems to be (And again I may be wrong), is that that sort of thing, when/if written by us (ie Users of Bmax/Blitz3d), is non of there business and we can sell the thing ourselves

Ive looked at the "Dark AI" pack, and in my opinion its not up to much, and Im sure that if either of you put your mind to it you could write a comparable product, that would be more sutible to you own projects

If you feel you are not up to it, then move over to "Modding" (This is not a slur, Its just that if you want all of this stuff done for you, then your level of entry into programing is at too low a language)

I CANNOT believe Ive just referred to a "BASIC" as a low level Language. Time Changes all

Did I catch that right... If someone cannot programme a BASIC AI lib, then their entry into programming is to LOW... lol.. What are you on about H&K???

I can program quite happily in C++, I've made a few userlibs in my time, full... but small applications even. The reason I don't use C++ for games is simply because my DirectX programming skills isnt up to speed... And since they are not, I use Blitz...

The thing is, if your that great a programmer, how come your not knee deep into DirectX, surely a man of your programming gifts can rip DirectX apart?

Why is H&K posting here, and not on MSDN... Why I wonder?

Oh, I know why... cos he's full of elitist S&*T!!! (No slur intended) ;P

Dabz

P.S. I couldnt resist having a look at your worklog... FPS Creator is all the rage for top quality programmers at the moment. And your single entry into the code archives speaks volumes 'Type for a simple Timer'.

Will I use it... NEVER... I'd rather write my own thank you!

You moved to a Higher level language, because as you said you were not up to speed of an aspect of a lower level language

All I sudjested was if your programming in Blitz is not upto writing an AI comparible to dark AI, then move to a Higher level language.

I dont see what your problem is with that?

Edit. And reading back to my post, I said I thought you could program it.

But I never mentioned that before hand! :/

And my post only asked the question 'why is it a problem that someone can use a particle lib, but not an AI one', did I even point out that I bought the thing? (Which I havent)

I have actually used A* in some of my projects, but the only way I could manage it was dissecting every part of a one someone posted years ago, just to learn how to do it.... I remember there being a tutorial on BlitzCoder about it. And it's a lot to take in!!!

Also, AI programming is a specialist field, amongst others... It would actually be nice for newbs just to have the basics at hand, maybe for testing purpose's.

The thing that got my gripe H&K, is your first post to grimx, it looks to me that he hasnt been here 5 mins, and your reply to his thread, was out of order, for a perfectly legitimate question:-

type Main
Screen:3DLandscape = New 3DLandscape(Moon)
Sound:SurroundSound = New Souroundsound(Moon)
Aliens:AI[] = New AI(Enemy)[100]
end type
MyGame = new Main
while Player= true
Do game
wend

I mean, what the hell is that? Answer: A piss take, to a newbie!!! Well done you.. I hope that made you feel great!

Dabz

[EDIT] I saw that, but I failed to see why you would think that I would write a comparable product, when I have never mentioned building one... I think I mentioned 'programming a particle engine is an easier task than writing an AI one'

If you had critisied my first post, then I would have accepted it as a legitimet critisim. But you didnt. You critisied me for sudjesting that if someone didnt think they could write an AI comparible to Dark Ai, that they sould move to a Higher level language that did it for them.

I Aggree, my first post was out of order. But thats not what got your goatup

We could call "H&K's" bluff and ask him to write the AI system for a Unreal Tournament type game.

Right, that's that sorted.

I'll expect it next week "H&K" - challenge is set - no backing down - no excuses - you answer to me and me alone. Plus, you get to sell it.

Yes it was... Originally, that's why I posted my first post... 'what's the fuss'... Your sarcasm in the code box drew me to write a post about why is there a problem about someone mentioning a AI lib for B3D

I've been here years H&K, and I've seen newbies come and go, through smart alec post's like the one you did above.

Then you posted this:-



In my first post, I didnt mention at all 'not feeling up to it', so why mention it???

And don't say 'It wasnt meant for you, I was just being general', because I would then say 'Well why the hell did you have @Sashnil and Dabz written on top of your post?'

Anyway, your first post got my goat up, your follow up's set me off:-

There's are tons of programmers that don't need to know AI, but a few basic functions in a lib would help a damn lot of people... So dismissing them totally, and telling them to go 'modding' is loopy.

Dabz

So your entire problem is that I put @ Sashnil and Dabz, and then wasnt specific about which parts where relivent to who?

Well I appologize if in anyway I indicated that you were not up to the problem of writting your own AI.

If though you do feel you are not up to it, then move over to "Modding" (This is not a slur, Its just that if you want all of this stuff done for you, then your level of entry into programing is at too low a language)

And as you have been following the threads for years, you will have read were all the approrite links were givin on grimixs origional post in blitz3d programing thread http://www.blitzmax.com/Community/posts.php?topic=60530

I could have posted my sarcastic comments on that thread. But I didnt. Because I agree with you about helping noobs. But when he then posted this thread I felt at liberty to do so

Nice one... Not Original, but nice! :)

Apologizes accepted, heck, I might even write one now!!! :)

Night night

Dabz

[EDIT} Notice that muk says it's the wrong forum to post that question in (It's in the Max forums)!
So then, grimx made a mistake, got some info anyway... then posted a relevant thread in a forum about technology and got a shitty reply

No, It says its a max thread because Im on Blitzmax.com. Its in one of the Blitz3d threads. (Ie he did post to nearly the right place)
But yes the reply here was a bit shitty. But the actual programing things that he needed/wanted had been explained to him. So .. well you know

Well yes and no,
It's ok that the plugins are not coded in house, as long as they're quality work, i'm ok with that.. i'll use em.

I've done modding in the past (Starcraft), and after a while you find it limiting and want to spawn something of your own.

Beign a one man team, doing all the gfx, tools and programming take alot of time.

I'll give you an example, i'm a master at music and gfx and tool programming but not so much on shaders, ai, physics.. etc
any help in those areas by the means of plugins helps me tremendously..

So to recap, if you can code everything yourself, awesome, if there's a plugin to help me in my weak areas, awesome..

something for everybody..

..you guys is like crocs..never changing..I think its time for new 'room' under General Discussion named 'Blitz3D Wrestling arena', so you can practice your fights over there since every time this happen, original thread is usually dead and out of topic..

y so disgrunted over my suggestion H&K..
---------------------------------------------------------------
just some general helper functions to help me get started creating an AI for a game..
and i agree y is ok to use a lib for particals system but
not use sum helper libs to get started on an AI system
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Blitz3d is a lib'd up version of Basic.

I am not disgrunted at your sudgestion Grimx, Its just that you have asked (And been given) a link to a good world editor, and a link to a collition Libary. Then when you were told Blitz3d wasnt a fully flegged 3d engine and didnt have any AI commands "parsay", you promtly posted here with your request for an AI Libary.

I understand all the comments people have posted about how mean Ive been to you. ;(
But you must surly see how my first reply was funny

At no point have I said anything bad or even sarcastic about any of the posts you have made in the programing sections, but once you posted here I felt able to

i'm just saying b3d is a high level language for game programming .. all sorts of libs were added to it to make it easyer to program games..
y not add an AI system
if i where any kind of pro , i would do all myself in c++,
but still use sum libs like SDL,OPENGL,
2d maybe Allegro,SDL..
see what i'm saying
Blitz3D is a step in the right direction of maybe becoming
a pro semi pro game programmer..

Blitz3D is not really a high level language. It's 4th generation, but that doesn't mean it has a high degree of abstraction, just that it's focused at a specific goal. Blitz3D is like C, but with a more human readable syntax, and less flexibility (due to not being a general purpose language).

Programming an AI or pathfinding module would actually be much easier in C++ or BlitzMAX, than it is in Blitz3D.