"We do not need the PC."
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/"We do not need the PC."
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9642In this Gamasutra article two of Sony's execs are trying to turn the frown on the E3 PS3 showing upside down by saying that the PS3 is obviously a full fleged computer which is going to make the PC obsolete and that's why it's more expensive than the 'game consoles' because it's not a 'game console'. The funniest part of it all is that the only hardware component which is definitely upgradeable is the HDD LOL! What a joke!
Unless I can run Blitz on my PS3 as it comes from the store then I fart in their general direction!
Burn Sony ... burn ... at least for a little while ;P
They sound a bit like Apple.
...Only worse, since they don't seem to actually care in the slightest about building a useful PC. They just want to sound special so people notice them.
Last I checked, a PC was a machine which let me run anything I want on it and didn't have hardware and software tethered around a single source. My PC will let me watch Blu-Ray movies, but when those die out, I will be able to watch the next generation of media formats as well.
Personally, I don't want a PC that has a flashy startup screen with sparkly letters and fancy 3d effects saying "Sony". I also don't want that ugly case, and I don't want the name "PlayStation" plastered across it since, as Sony claims, it's not just a game machine.
Besides... doesn't Sony already MAKE PCs?
...And isn't their history of delivering such bad support for these PCs one of the reasons why "they are a four-letter word"?
Hmm... that explains it!
They have such bad support because they forgot about their PCs while preparing for their uber-exciting E3 showing (featuring tons of empty PS3 demos and a clear view of Nintendo's ginormous lineup...).
I think the reason they're saying this is so they can get away with releasing hardware upgrades, thus earning lots and lots of money.
I guess they've given up the whole "game industry" thing and moved on to hardware.
If the PS3 runs on Linux, there's still a .01% chance of getting the thing to consider opening a BlitzMax program before its Anti-Anything-that's-not-by-Sony system kicks in.
Of course, this is assuming it actually works...
Do we know if those reports about the Cell processor having incredibly slow local memory read speeds are accurate? Since the Slashdot article was linking to The Inquirer, I can't quite trust it.
I'm pretty sure this is only to avoid paying that import fee for game consoles like they tried to get away with with the PS2. They failed in that regard though.
Really, if the PS3 was a full-fledged computer then I wouldn't have to pay hideous amounts of money to develop for it.
Well I hope these rumours arent true then, as it will make for one lousy computer if this is he case.
The following is posted by an editor who went to Taipei on TheInquirer.com "AFTER BREAKING THE news to me about PS3 RSX speeds earlier on the flight to Japan, my row-mate said 'if you think that's interesting, wait till you see this. Cell is hurting, badly'. For those of you that believe in religions with karmic tendencies, scoops like this meant one of two things, the wings of the plane are about to fall off and I am going to die in a fiery ball, or worse yet, the movie selection will be worrisome. Cell memory access appears to be broken, RSX has half the triangle setup rate of the ATI chip in XBox360, and the true horror, Big Momma's House 2 and a Queen Latifa movie."
With the movie selection still making my brain throb from the glances I caught, I furiously took notes on what the source was saying. He started out saying that the RSX can only write about half as much vertex data as it can fetch, not an ideal situation by any stretch, but survivable.
Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.
Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.
For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.
For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".
If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.
The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?
Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.
You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is a bitch to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console.
TAKEN FROM:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 How about a link to the original article, Evak?
Evak that article is ancient news. It has already been disproven on several different occations, for instance here:
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17547 Sweet Jesus.
Jeremy, I agree:
[French accent]
I fart in their general direction!
[/French accent]
Unless I can run Blitz on my PS3 as it comes from the store then I fart in their general direction!
Since it already does Linux, if a cell version of bcc could be written, that's not an unlikely scenario.
Last I checked, a PC was a machine which let me run anything I want on it and didn't have hardware and software tethered around a single source.
You must not have checked very well. A PC is a Personal Computer (as opposed to the giant mainframes they had at MIT), and Apple (more precicely Steve Wozniak) where the ones who invented it. Your Wintrendo machine is really just a fancy typewritter, put together in a drunken binge that there was a total market for maybe 5 worldwide.
Personally, I don't want a PC that has a flashy startup screen with sparkly letters and fancy 3d effects saying "Sony".
So no flashy stary-up screens and you want to be able to run any software you decide? Wow. You're not going to like Vista at all.
Really, if the PS3 was a full-fledged computer then I wouldn't have to pay hideous amounts of money to develop for it.
Software development is expensive. Deal with it. The reason SDKs are usually rediculously expencive, is because it eliminates those, who do not have the constitution and determination to see a project through.
If you can't raise enough capital to buy an SDK, you're never going to raise enough capital to afford to hire people, and your idea probably isn't as good as you thought.
If you can't raise enough capital to buy an SDK, you're never going to raise enough capital to afford to hire people, and your idea probably isn't as good as you thought.
Bull S*ny.
The number of people I employ has no bearing on how good a game I make is. The only thing that staff quantity could possibly effect in terms of quality is the graphics, and even then i'd rather work with talent than quantity given the choice (which I dont happen to have, but thats another story).
Hiring people has no bearing on game quality, look at how absolute rubbish any commercial blandeware title is and that point should be pretty clear - if it isn't clear, then your one of the mugs keeping corporate suites in the black with your aimless fps addiction whilst you lap up pretty graphics and rehashed gameplay from 12 years ago.
Nicely Put Banshee :)
Tis true. All this performance, all these effects, all this emphasis, pomp and arrogance concerning huge budgets and games are wholly crapper and less attractive than ever. I've never played so few games since I took up computers - Jaded is too weak a word for it.
List of games I liked in the last few years. This is all of them:
Prince of Persia, SOT,
Prince of Persia, Warrior Within
Prince of Persia, The Two Thrones.
Oblivion.
Need for Speed underground / Most wanted.
Matrix PON.
FEAR
Um, I think thats everything I've bought and liked in the last 5 years. 8 games. and most of those are now uninstalled due to some reason or other- likely Starforce.
Three other games that I took back to the shop or just didn't buy:
Toca Race Driver 3:- Liked, didn't buy- It Starforced up the ass my DVD drive.
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory:- Uninstalled - Starforced again.
GT Legends:- Took it back. Starforce. Plus I wasnt all that impressed.
Other than this I found most games boring due to same-old same-old gameplay with a new shiny X effect or a cool Y effect.
So no flashy stary-up screens and you want to be able to run any software you decide? Wow. You're not going to like Vista at all.
Look around. Even Macs give me choice over my operating system (well, to some extent) and allow for homebrew development without getting blasted by an angry publisher.
I agree with Flameduck that a PC, being a Personal Computer, could be anything.
However, since this means that any game console, already, by definition, is a Personal Computer since it computes things and it's for people, we can assume that the term has been bent a bit.
Yeah, doesn't Sony, like, make the VAIO line, too? The VAIO's a PC, so what do they have to say about THAT?! Come on, Sony, fess up the wazoo, let's face it... The PS3 and the VAIO, hmm... Well, guess you have some explaining to do...
I stopped liking Sony as a gamer soon-after they called me "stupid" for thinking they ripped off one of the Wii's controller fundamentals...
Also seems Sony is trying to pinch every penny? First, they do the "pass it off as a system" thing....again, then they drop rumble-pack support because they dont want to pay royalties (their excuse being they couldnt fit the motion-sensor & it in together, liars).....then they charge a crapload for their system along with a huge dev-kit price?
Sony's got a crapload of work to do if they're to make me want their system.
(also got the feeling BluRay is going to lose because of them, Sony seems to have the touch-of-death when it comes to supporting new formats....)
Yeah, I kept eyeing the X360 on top of PS3, but then decided to back Nintendo all the way. Even tho I do have an HDTV, chances are, you don't want to blow $400 just to have a game console make it pay off, when $200 - $250 will do just fine (assuming that Nintendo at least has some 16:9 support outside of HD). IMHO, Nintendo may be tied with X360 as the best selling console globally, or at least a very strong 2nd place behind MS. Unless Sony cleans up their act, they'll be deep in 3rd for a long, long time...
Wow, Sony must have a lot of people running scared judging by the desperation for false information to throw around. Certainly glad I didn't buy that XBox360 after all.
I played tons of good games in the last few years, so many that I can't remember half of them. Here's a few that I have here in the cupboard that I kept after finishing them.
Rome Total War + Expansion
Splinter cell 1/3
FEAR
Riddick
Fable
Forza motorsport
Jade Empire
KOTOR
Crimson Skies
Project Gotham 1/2
Fight Night 1/2
Halo
Indigo Prophecy
Broken Sword 3
Baldurs Gate II Console version
Max Payne 1/2
Amped 1/2
Age of Empires 3
Oblivion
Gothic 2
Enclave
Far Cry
Sid Meirs Pirates
They don't have people running scared ... just tired of their god complex. They're going down because they need a reality check period.
They made a game console which costs almost 2X that of their nearest competitor and people don't think it's all that impressive. Then in order to try and cover their screw up they're trying to say that their machine is really a 'cheap' PC and that now the PC isn't needed. So basically, they've given the finger to the game console world and the world of personal computers. That's fine too ... but they'd better deliver one hell of a machine if it's supposed to replace my PC's and my consoles.
I don't think they're up to the task whatsoever.
as Jeremy Alessi said above me, they're just covering their behinds now.. its getting silly
It's not a bug, it's an innovation!
They don't have people running scared ... just tired of their god complex.
Then why all the fabricated stories and misinformation. Their god complex is a pretty obvious fact. Of course, it's funny how some people can say that in the same sentence as praising Microsoft without laughing, but that's beside the point. If their god complex was the only issue, there'd be no need to start making up stories to discredit them.
They're going down because they need a reality check period.
A reality check from bogus information? Now that's an interesting concept. XD
And I think reports of their demise are still somewhat premature, considering all of this discussion is going on between a tiny percentage of the market, most of whom never owned any of the previous Sony consoles either. In fact, I'd say it's wishful thinking from those who are themselves so distanced from reality that they get their own opinions confused with broad public opinion.
At least I know that I don't know what the public at large are going to make of things.
Yeah, that's why I'm glad to support the underdogs in Nintendo more than those two egomaniacs Bill Gates and Ken Kutaragi... Nintendo doesn't want any part of that fancy war, they just want to have a console that will appeal to solely gaming and nothing more, and be far cheaper, and will have a better online service, IMHO. Something tells me that the Wii has this next-gen competition in the bag.
Something tells me that the Wii has this next-gen competition in the bag.
That's because, unlike some other developers, they aren't afraid to say the word "Game".
Sony isn't "going down" any more so than Microsoft is. But game players can certainly make them the least of the consoles if they show a little restraint. :)
I just think all the stuff going around is interesting. You get it with every console. Wasn't that long ago that we were looking at 360 gossip. Now it's PS3's turn I guess.
A reality check from bogus information? Now that's an interesting concept. XD
What are you talking about with this? I didn't even mention that bogus article myself. I was talking about their whole strategy and couldn't care less about some misinformed person's take on the system specs. That's simply a side effect of their general attitude. Do you really think that author has anything to lose by Sony doing well in the console race? Of course not ... and as such he's not 'running scared' rather instead he's 'checking Sony' ... sending them a little negativity because he doesn't like the actions they're taking.
The number of people I employ has no bearing on how good a game I make is.
Obviously. They will have to work on it as well.
The only thing that staff quantity could possibly effect in terms of quality is the graphics, and even then i'd rather work with talent than quantity given the choice
In the real world, talent costs money. More money than an SDK. It has nothing to do with choice.
Hiring people has no bearing on game quality, look at how absolute rubbish any commercial blandeware title is and that point should be pretty clear
That's just rediculous. The blandness of many of the games you speak of, have nothing at all to do with ammount of people, but with the collective industry, clinging desperately to half-truths and archaic business models. Like before, chances are looking good Nintendo are going to have to save the industry from itself. Again.
All this performance, all these effects, all this emphasis, pomp and arrogance concerning huge budgets and games are wholly crapper and less attractive than ever.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with production costs. It is becuase the focus has gone from being fun, to being business. The perfect example of this is Halo (PC Version) it had everything going for it - until some idiot designer decided that there should be at least 10 hours of gameplay in a modern game, so he had you trudging back and forth through the same god forsaken levels, killing the same generic enemies, for the last 6 hours. They should have just quit while they where ahead.
Um, I think thats everything I've bought and liked in the last 5 years. 8 games.
Never the less, games with large budgets. How many low-budget games have you bought in the same time period? Here's the list of games I brought with me to NZ: Vampire: Bloodlines, City of Heroes/Villains, KOTOR 1+2, Civilization IV, Fallout, Dune, Dawn of War, Winter Assault. I've bought more, but those are the ones I've brought with me. Only 'Indie' games I've bought, and played for an extensive amount of time, is Escape Velocity (I even bought a Mac for it) and Bejeweled.
Something tells me that the Wii has this next-gen competition in the bag.
Except the Wii isn't next-gen. The Wii is focusing on gameplay, rather than flashy graphics. Never the less, it is still going to cost a bucketload to develop for, because the cost of an SDK is DWARFED by the budget for developers. Even if you are only 5 people, working for peanuts, it's still going to cost you at least 150.000 USD a year. Just for salaries. Faced with those expenses a couple of thousand bucks is really insignificant.
I just think all the stuff going around is interesting. You get it with every console. Wasn't that long ago that we were looking at 360 gossip. Now it's PS3's turn I guess.
Odd that Nintendo aren't catching any flak tho'. Even Nintendo has said it will be the least powerful of the 3 systems, but people cheer them on anyway. The only thing you hear is the quite tiring kiddies console reputation they got because they took the blood and gore out of the GameBoy version of Mortal Kombat.
In the real world, talent costs money. More money than an SDK. It has nothing to do with choice.
So anything I make is a pile of poodoo because I dont charge myself wages !? Perhaps you should come back after making something that demands I respect your views on what makes a game developer... ;)
What is it that makes the "Graphics" the key feature that decides "Next Gen"?
I mean, the WEEEE has next gen gameplay!
Right, Nintendo may wind up suing Sony on the motion control, too, if that winds up being patented like the force feedback was... Knowing Immersion, they may make all these bells and whistles exclusive to Nintendo before too long.
I don't see/feel the nextgen gameplay with nintendo yet. I just see a nextgen controller. Hopefully they will come up with games that really make a difference.
There are tons of games out for the gba for instance but not many that really make fun from my point of view. Although im Driller2 addicted...
Except the Wii isn't next-gen.
That is where I have to jump in.
The Wii is next gen, as it is one of the next generation of consoles.
In fact, with that logic, so is the PSP and DS.
Next-gen doesn't mean graphics, and it's ridiculous that people are considering that it does. If it did mean graphics, next-gen would have to look a lot better than it does, as hardware technology has actually been very gradually making its way to the point where it is in consoles right now (and quite swiftly past it, judging by the looks of Crysis). Next-gen is considered a sort of a special word, so we would need some pretty special and revolutionary hardware to deal with it. At my end, this hardware isn't that great when we consider how my stuff handles these "next-gen" games just fine.
I've contradicted myself.
Next-Gen doesn't even mean "good". It means "new".
Very much true, because hardly anyone sees what Microsoft or Sony contains in their consoles as being exactly "standard" for home entertainment... IMHO, Nintendo is the only company that concentrates their whole effort into a GAMING console, NOT a full-blown entertainment console, which noone would take full advantage of other than the games. Unless someone was dumb enough to jump on the Blue-Ray movie bandwagon, or UMD movies, HD-DVD, what have you. On top of that, hardly a small percentage of the market owns HDTVs or HD-Ready TVs, so most of these features that Sony or MS adds won't be at their best. For that issue, you're better off keeping your PS2 or standard XBox. As for Nintendo, they want to provide a "taste" of next-gen without all those extra bells and whistles, yet, still give you that wireless motion control feel with perhaps the biggest launch library of the three consoles.
So anything I make is a pile of poodoo because I dont charge myself wages !?
Well you said that, not me. Nor have I ever impuned the quality of your games, as it where. I'm saying that the cost of an SDK is insignificant compared to the costs of making a game. Any game, even your games. Unless you have such a low opinion of yourself that you don't think your time is worth anything.
What is it that makes the "Graphics" the key feature that decides "Next Gen"?
Graphics has nothing to do with it. If Nintendo says the Wii is not next-gen, then the Wii is not next-gen, no matter how badly a bunch of fanboys want it to be.
That is where I have to jump in.
Take it up with
Satoru Iwata
Who cares what Iwata says. It's a next-gen console ... he just doesn't want to group it in with the PS3 and 360. It's semantics.
Take it up with Satoru Iwata
Okay, I take that back.
Nintendo seems to have invented the Time Machine :P
In this Gamasutra article two of Sony's execs are trying to turn the frown on the E3 PS3 showing upside down by saying that the PS3 is obviously a full fleged computer which is going to make the PC obsolete and that's why it's more expensive than the 'game consoles' because it's not a 'game console'. The funniest part of it all is that the only hardware component which is definitely upgradeable is the HDD LOL! What a joke!
It's needed just one question to drag these managers down: on what machine does Sony code his games? ;)
Anyway it's speech as more to do with extensibility than upgrading, since he is referring to limited 'upgrades' which will not touch PS3 core (most notably performance and graphics capabilities), so most probably they don't even know what they are talking about (he's Sony's president and CEO after all, not PS3's Chief Engineer).
By the time the PS3 is out its core will already be surpassed by hardware technology: you can't keep up with a PC, which is planned to be constantly upgraded, with consoles which are built to stay on the market for years without even opening the case... besides for the hard drive and the blu-ray, the only devices mentioned in the article. Laptops today are far more modular than that, let alone desktops. This quote alone is quite pathetic, if that's what he thinks it's all about:
"As PS3 is a computer... it also wants to evolve. We'll want to upgrade the HDD size very soon - if new standards appear on the PC, we will want to support them. We may want the [Blu-ray] drive to [have a writable version upgrade]."
A modular architecture is far a more complex issue, as you all surely know.
When he says that he thinks "it's okay to release a [extended PS3] configuration every year" and "if new standards appear on the PC, we will want to support them" [referring to the Hard Disk] it clearly show an antiquate mentality, when he thinks about the HDD as a Hi-Fi, as if it comes a new type each year or so and when it happens it's an event for the masses (while new hard disk sizes and technologies are available month by month, and often the technology used isn't even mentioned clearly - perpendicular recording for example just resulted in bigger hard disks without an extensive campaign on the press, besides technical articles in the hardware scene... that's mostly routine).
At most, PS3 will be an Internet Station, a DVD Recorder and a Console (and I guess that these upgrades will be quite costly, too, in the end probably more than a regular PC).
regardless of how much it costs hire people the cost of an sdk is important, if you take it out of the reach the homebrew market you're making your platform poorer.
If languages like b3d and max even dare I say it darkbasic :o never existed or cost £2000 how many handy utils and budget games would there be compared to today.
Just think some people program *just* because they enjoy doing it...
Well, needless to say, taking Peter Moore's advice on having both an X360 and a Wii would be the superior choice to me. With a Core 360 and a Wii, you'll be $50 cheaper than a PS3, and you may be happier that you have the two consoles that will do Sony in this round.
Thing is, Sony got caught with its pants down.
The PS3 was never meant to be this expensive, here's what threw it off course.
Sony Originally designed the PS3 to use Cell processors and Cell only to do everything including graphics.
Everything looked great on paper and it's only once they had engineering samples that saw the cell alone would not be enuff to push graphics, hence why they tagged along with nvidia for a gfx chip.
That and that alone blew up their budget, they should of dropped one Cell chip, 3 instead of 4.
Don't get me started on their blue ray inclusion on the ps3, what a mistake!! who cares about a HD-DVD player at this point and time, most of the world's population don't even have a HD complient tV let alone a TV biger than 20 inches..
That's just plain bad market study.
Now to save face, they have re-labled the ps3 as a PC replacement.. well i hate to say it but if it don't run Windows, it's not gonna make it out of it's niche game market no matter how much cpu power you have under the hood... Alphas anyone?
my 2.5 cents.
Yeah, and Microsoft had their HD-DVD drive as an external drive to be hooked in as a USB connection. I don't know too many people that will buy the HD-DVD drive for the X360, either... However, the X360 by itself will be far better, IMHO. Nintendo and Microsoft seem to use the same graphics and processor brands in IBM's Power PC and ATI Graphics, just like Nintendo used in the GameCube. I'd like to think that Apple's old technology is being very much used to its fullest extent in the X360. Hmm, interesting...
In Tina Turners voice:
We don't need another PCieeee, We dooooon't neeeeed anooootheeeer PCieeeeeeeeeeeeeee
bang bang ratatatata reloads ratatata that got him
damn thos bad tina turner impersonators
if you take it out of the reach the homebrew market you're making your platform poorer.
Not really.
If languages like b3d and max even dare I say it darkbasic :o never existed or cost £2000 how many handy utils and budget games would there be compared to today.
Probably not as many. But there wouldn't be nearly as many absolutely horrid ones either. And that's what Sony, Microsoft, and to a certain extent, Nintendo are doing by pricing their SDKs out of the reach of those who are not really serious about wanting to develop for their platform.
>not really serious about wanting to develop for their platform.
Correction what you want to say FlameDuck is "who are not rich bastards". Everyone on these forums burns for game development and I don't doubt for a moment that if they had money needed for development on these system that they would not invest, people are serious and luck money aslo they are not rich. That's the way I see it :)
Bah, pfft, Phil Harrison's more full of hot air than Peter Moore ever had, IMHO. Right about now, Peter Moore might not be all that bad about the X360... After all, the X360 was a year earlier than the other two consoles, and who better to bring a next-gen game console than a :gasp: computer software manufacturer?! On top of that, it's weird to realize that the company who got into the current-gen console business later than the other two, was indeed the first to enter the next-gen market... Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for Microsoft to be first in the next-gen when they released the Xbox far later than the other two (I believe the GameCube came out earlier than the Xbox, if I'm not mistaken), IMHO.
Correction what you want to say FlameDuck is "who are not rich bastards".
You don't have to be a rich bastard. You just have to have the drive to do something about it.
Everyone on these forums burns for game development and I don't doubt for a moment that if they had money needed for development on these system that they would not invest, people are serious and luck money aslo they are not rich.
You do not need to be rich. That's what venture capitalists are for.
But of course I can see how it's much easier (safer too) to sit and whine about it on a forum as opposed to doing something about it.
>But of course I can see how it's much easier (safer too) to sit and whine about it on a forum as opposed to doing something about it.
O Boy... So if these licenses costed 1 million$ you would still not have to be rich or doing well economically but only be serious about it and you would magically get that million. I'm using million as an example to show that if licenses are beyond what you can pay for that being seriouos about game development doesn't cut it, you still need that money.
Pff, the expensive licenses aren't too much of a problem for casual developers unless they're the kind that focus attention like pros.
Once the homebrewers get going on the PS3, as they always do, noone will have to pay a cent and (if you're lucky), you may be able to make something good enough to persuade Sony to give you a dev kit.
So if these licenses costed 1 million$
But they don't. You're missing the point. A million USD is a significant budget post, because it's likely to be equal or greater too the ammount of money you're paying your developers. 30K is not. And yes, raising a million dollars isn't the challenge. If the Phantom guys can raise 80 million for a console that's faced nothing but ridicule, and a CEO who has 6 or 7 failed ventures on his trackrecord, you can raise 1 million, or even two to make a 'casual' game for the PS3 or whatever.
>you can raise 1 million, or even two to make a 'casual' game for the PS3 or whatever.
Thanks FlameDuck, I needed to hear these words, now I'm off to raise a million or two $, should not be a problem as you say, it's easy stuff!!!
yes.. now all you need is to do the following:
1. sit down and design your game in detail.
2. get a meeting with a developer and see if the idea is viable, and perhaps how much it would cost to put to life.
3. get a meeting at the bank and see what kind of options you've got.
4. set up dozens of meetings with investors, to see if they're interrested in fronting the main funding.
and most likely repeat the three last steps a number of times... there's not much more to it..
meet the right people, sell them the idea.. easy! ;)
Thanks FlameDuck, I needed to hear these words, now I'm off to raise a million or two $, should not be a problem as you say, it's easy stuff!!!
If you go about it the right way, yes.
1. sit down and design your game in detail.
Wrong. Screw the game. Sit down and write a detailed Buisness plan, which includes a one page treatment, that abstractly outlines the game you want to make.
2. get a meeting with a developer and see if the idea is viable, and perhaps how much it would cost to put to life.
No need to meet with a developer. If you have a good solid business plan, with research to back it up, you will have evidence that your idea is viable, which to an investor is more potent than some other developers opinion. Especially since other developers so often get it wrong (just look at the horrible games they're making).
3. get a meeting at the bank and see what kind of options you've got.
Screw the bank. Banks don't have Venture Capital. Banks have loans. Get a company whose business is high risk venture and show your professional business plan to them. If your business plan is convincing enough, they will invest in your company in return for a controlling majority. Once you start making money, they will take their part, and gradually turn over more and more of the company to you.
Homebrew on PS3 ... that joke was just too good.
Sony has taken too many steps to block any attempt of homebrew on any of their systems and with a system where a single game cost 2-30Mio USD in production cost, you can bet that they don't open the path for homebrew in any way. At best a XBox Arcade like casual program you first need to qualify for with a prototype to get the needed dev utilities.
The real scheme emerges... :)
From:
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-sony-dodges-euro-tax-men-179245.php Although Sony's recent comments on different hardware set-ups and upgrade cycles for the Playstation 3 have been a thwack in the middle of the forehead with a big rubbery one, one curious thing we've noticed is how insistently Harrison and Kutaragi have been to describe the PS3 as a computer, not a game console.
You might remember Sony trying this before, about six years ago. For the PS2's European launch, Sony made a concerted push to classify it as a computer, not a game console. The reason is because importing game consoles into the EU is a huge tax drain for companies, where as computers are not. Sony was so desperate to get out of paying those multi-million dollar tax bills that they actually released Linux for the PS2, in what has to be the most useless first party title ever except for the fact that it convinced the EU to finally consider the PS2 a computer. It's essentially a Sony tax shelter.
I have no idea if Sony is actually going to go ahead with fragmenting gamers on countless iterations of gaming hardware. I suspect that all of this lip service recently to the PS3 being a computer is being made for only one reason: so Sony can dodge the tax man. Don't be surprised if Linux for the PS3 is announced as a launch title.
Bah, then why does Sony even do their VAIO Line, then? IMHO, if they are confident that their PS3 will outplace a VAIO, then I probably can see that the PS3 will be made for those who can't afford VAIO (which I believe a VAIO is far superior, IMHO). Something tells me that there may as well be more VAIOs than PS3s being sold, if that's how Sony's gonna market things.
Judging from the article above, their notebook line has nothing to do with it... they are not trying to compete with their own products.
Simply put, a theory which is circulating on various websites states that marketing the PS3 (with preinstalled linux) as a PC looks like a 'legal' way to evade european taxes: console game imports are subject to additional taxes, whereas pc software (either apps or games) do not.
The article above also stated that it happened the exact same thing with the PS2, though they had to release linux for it in order to have the PS2 accepted as a computer from the european legislation, and not to make the same mistake twice they are now directly marketing it as a PC.
Yeah, maybe that's why the Net Yaroze was Sony's first attempt to abolish any knowledge of taxes on PSX, if that would work, then other upcoming consoles of theirs would do about the same... Let's see how far Sony can go this time...
Hopefully they can go about as far as ... um ... I don't know, how about 6 feet in the ground ;P
You hit that right. With Bill Gates stepping down, let's see how far the X360 can go now... Now we got THAT to look forward to...