Coming up with game ideas?

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How do you people come up with game ideas? Especially people who make the puzzle/portal style games?

Do you start from an existing puzzle, and adapt it slightly. Or do you have any methods for coming up with new game ideas?

What I do is play games I like and look at what I don't like about them. That makes me think how could I make it better.

Then ideas just seem to flow.

What ENAY says is true. I just visualise the sort of game I'd like to play and try to make it happen + miss out all the crap things about similar games. Actually I think an "original" puzzle game that's fun would be very hard to make and design actually.

Sort of me too. My big turn on in games is the interface, the interaction. I don't really care about story or graphics in the first instance, they're just candy. But how the user interacts with the world, whatever that world may be, is where I start.

Yes I agree. I can always see through the graphics to the core game. However, lot's of customers can't, especially portal customers. So I also study the "bling" applied to portal games a lot as well.

Wow, I feel completely the opposite. I care most about story, plot and characters above all else, but I think that's because I value entertainment more than interaction (if that makes sense).

I go through Peter Molyneux's bins.

If the game plays like crap but has a good story I don't care as the medium it's in has failed me. If the game plays well and has a crap story etc that's OK (puzzle games don't really have a plot/story) but not great. Get both and I'm well into it!

I tested a lot of match-3s when making mine and lots had fancy graphics but really poopy "wooden" engines. I made mine "feel" good to play so that the core was solid - people (inc. portal producers) remarked on this too.

Umm, what's a portal?

I agree with Grey - a game with only story, plot and characters is called a film - they're also entertaining sometimes. ;-)

Can we keep on subject. The question was how to generate game ideas. Not on what makes a good game.

I consider a game with great gameplay that gets lost because it's conceptua end is stupid a failure.

Games aren't just gameplay. If the metaphor doesn't make sense, the game won't make sense, and making sense is what facilitates the gameplay.

the only exception is puzzle games, which don't have to make sense to be playable. Case in point, tetris. Nothing about the game makes any sense. But it is fun to play because it is simple. Were it more complex, it COULD be a good game, but it would need to make sense conceptually to be effective. Most puzzle game designers really ignore this aspect. While most RPG designers ignore the aspects that Puzzle game designers get right. Being fun above all else.

Puzzle and RPG from a gameplay standpoint use the same skills. They should be very close in who likes them. But they aren't.

Because RPGs don't explore the finer points of their battle systems, and Puzzle games ignore that they can have more than good gameplay.

Unfortunately, it isn't good game designers that get to make games. It is the people who are able to actually make the game happen that do. The coders, or people who can hire coders.

When it comes to great game design, it is very rare to find something innovative, new, and all around good. Indie or AAA.

Indie games don't have the people (or the funds for a person) needed to finely hone a game ... that being, someone to just focus on designing the game. A visionary.

The big companies don't have the money to wait for a visionary to really take the time needed to work out all the details, nor are they willing to take a chance on a true puzzle RPG hybrid. And rightly so, as such a game could alienate both cores rather than unite them, without the right publicity.

Making something good, or even great, doesn't mean it can be sold.

This is the difference between business and art.

Yeah... a bit rambly... sorry bout that.

> Umm, what's a portal?

It's like a teleporter but instead of being a machine, it's like a swirl you jump through on the floor or wall. Kinda like a worm hole.

Umm, what's a portal?


It's that anomaly in space that ENAY came through.

I have one in my brain and ideas from another dimension come in from it. Problem is ideas from this dimension leak out.

DampeS8N: I've played great shoot em ups that don't have a plit who cares? It matters more in platformers, maybe ... but look at the Super Mario plot and gameplay hah!

I stare at dog's legs...haven't come up with a good game idea yet though. Not even sure if it works.

Whenever I get an idea for a game I write it down, usually in Notepad. A lot of these ideas are fairly unoriginal - ie rehashes of old arcade games.

If I spend a bit of time thinking about game play mechanics that are a bit different, usually by thinking about the game mechanics of old arcade games modified in various ways, then I usually get an idea or two that may be worth making.

I've got a folder on my desktop which is full of text files with ideas for various games - 99% of which will never even be started.

Another point - if I come up with an unoriginal idea then I usually am less inclined to be motivated to code something. If I come up with a slightly more original idea then I am more likely to begin coding it, and if it is simple enough, writing really bad code to just get a prototype put together (this can mean writing all the code with no functions, lots of hard coded values (ie no data files at all) and really messy code which is impossible to clean up once it is made.)

I didn't say plot. I said concept.

Mario wouldn't work well if you changed some of the aspects. While Mario is very trippy, it follows a lot of conventions throughout the game. And, this is far more important as games get more and more complex.

Try doing Mario 64 without any direction.

Look at the name, Shoot Em Up. What are you going to do in this game? Shoot things, likely lots of things. Now, lets make the characters a banana, not even really a flying one, just a banana, then have cherries and keys fall towards it and give the player no direction.

What must he do?

Now make it so his life goes down with each hit from the cherry, but his score goes up, and if he shoots one. his score stays the same and his health goes up, but if shoot a key, your score goes up and if you get hit by it, you lose health..

Then in level ten, have a boss battle, where the only way to win is to do nothing, move at all from where the game puts you, and you will be shot and killed in 1 hit.

Then at level 20, add in bombs that heal you.

And finally, at level 50, (this game won't let you save either), add in random lightning bolts, and if you get hit with one your health goes up, then 30 seconds later, you lose 50% of your health per bolt.

Understand? A game without a useable concept is frustrating, not fun, and can be downright unplayable.

Now, preface the new levels with an explaination of what is to come, give the player a verbal puzzle to figger out the boss, and change the cherries into bricks of gold, the banana into a space ship, the keys into other space ships, the lightning into a sticky energy bomb that restores your energy before exploding, and the bombs that heal into energy absorbed by your ship's shields.

Now the game makes more sense, it might be unbalanced, but it is at least playable.

Mario is random and goofy, but new additions follow a logic and can be figured out by looking at them. you learn right away about turtle shells and how they work, when you come across them in the future, as hard beetles or otherwise, you learn how to deal with them. You aren't thrown any curve balls later on in the game, because everything makes sense.

Typically, puzzles lack a good metaphor, they have one tacked onto it sometimes, but rarely use it to drive the puzzles.

There are rare examples tho. Such as The Adventures of Lolo. Where a puzzle game has a strong well thought out metaphor to drive the game.

Lolo is an incredible game because of this. Again... there isn't really a plot. there is, but it is shallow. Your girl's been captured, climb the tower and save her. When you get to the top, wow, you saved her.

It is basically just 100 floors of puzzles some of which are action puzzles.

But you can ruin the metaphor and over complicate the game.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/314164
This is a clone of Lolo without as good a metaphor, different zones too. It begins to wear on you, and were it not for some design choices that make the trial and error aspect at least not kill the play, the game wouldn't be very good at all.

I played through many levels of Lolo without dying, even when there were new enemies to play against, planing it all out from the first moments and remembering what the other enemies do, gets you through it. And often the game introduces a new foe with a simple puzzle using the foe, so you don't have to contend with a lot of other variables.

Match 3 games are hard to put a good metaphor on. Mainly because they are so simple they don't need them. But they don't have to be that simple. Paint numbers on them, have the player be able to match with 3 of a kind or a straight 123 or 765. For that matter, put card faces on the tiles and ask the player to build card hands, 5 or 3. Ace Ace Ace, Ace King Queen, Heart, Heart, Heart.

These metaphors add complexity to the match 3 without making them harder, or requireing you to learn anything new.

I don't know if anyone has ever done those, seems like they should have, since they are such good ideas.

But that is the thing about puzzle designers. They don't always think like that. Just like the RPG designers don't make tactical RPGs where the location you stand in relation to your party can effect the game. I'd like to see a spell that projects your party's location and direction faced out a square or 2, and attacks all those spaces. Or other situations. Or otherwise infusing more of the puzzle designers ability to make puzzles. Since RPGs come down to statisticly driven puzzles, where you know fire beats water and a very powerful warrior might be put to sleep to take care of them. There are mental puzzles, and could be built apon with the right minds.

The amount of RPGs that just tack on a FF style RPG system is staggering. Without changing it at all really. Same elementals, and status ailments with new names. Sometimes not even new names.

Look at grainy images that have been jpeged too many times, then sit down and DREAM.
Then realize that your initial idea will take centuries to do, so arrange to do it as a background project until the time is right, and use the same general concept for a smaller project. Reimagine the new "spin-off" version to fit into a smaller box, perhaps borrowing elements from similar games (which helps to attract fans of said games).

Hey, it worked for me!
(Theoretically)

I think of something cool. Unfortunately, 'something cool' has ended up taking me over a year in development time now.

I tend to think about a gamegenre and then begin to play around with the genre in my head, asking alot of 'What if questions'.

After a while I realize that it wouldn't work, or that it would add a whole other dimension to that genre and work very well.


Andy

A lot of it comes down to being in a game and thinking 'I'd love to be able to do xyz right now and have abc as a result', trying it, that NOT happening, and resolving to put it in my game. A bit like what ENAY said in post 2.


How do you people come up with game ideas?


..ehm...when I'm in bathroom!

Personally I think that other games must be only an 'inspiration', then I try to change everything in something that *should* be interesting, and ONLY in this case I try to create something looking beautyful&playable.
But as I'm suck at graphics, I'm suck as musicist and (probably) I'm suck as programmer...this happens not so frequently!

:P byez