Grey Alien Framework?

Hey Grey! Gimme the rundown on the framework. It's tuesday so I have money and can buy.

I'll ask a couple of questions first.

Will you ditch the framework in a couple of months?
Why do I need it?

Sell it to me in this thread. :)

OK you got it!

Well firstly I'm about to release an update this week. Had it planned for last week but I've just stuffed it full of new cool features that I hadn't planned (feature creep!)

So will I ditch it? Well to reiterate, I'm using it for my next game that I'm contracted to do by an American publisher. Then after that I plan to use it for more games, both freeware ones and commercial ones. This is a solid foundation for my career as a game developer. Furthermore, I'm a man of my word, and I don't like to let people down... you just have to trust me on that - bear in mind I'm an Aikido instructor and honour is an important trait in martial arts. Also remember I have a track record of producing commercial games that have been accepted by major portals (thanks to Indiepath's help) and I've been programming for 22 years (10 years full-time), so you are buying quality.

Why do you need it: Well here's some stuff I posted before ...

- Want the fun of making games without boring research, technical problems and tons of interface code?
- Want your game to run on a wide range of PCs using an ultra smooth timing routine?
- Want your game to have the same add-ons as professional commercial games?
- Want to plug your code straight into an OOP environment with tons of ready-made Types?

Then get the Grey Alien BlizMax Game Framework!

+ more. Basically my framework comes with an entire game that uses the framework for you to disect and examine. My customers have reported that the code is very well structured and commented and that they have learnt new stuff. I have 2 FAQs (general/technical) and a Getting Started Guide, plus I offer support for 1 year from date of purchase.

Other people have said they wouldn't sell or give away their frameworks because they are too valuable, and this is probably true of mine, however you CAN buy it for $49 right now. Don't let me down ;-)

here's the latest list of features in summary (there's much more in detail see the FAQ http://www.greyaliengames.com/framework/faq.html ) and this list isn't even up to date!

Smooth Fixed Rate Logic timing.
Dynamically change between Full-Screen and Windowed Mode.
Dynamically change between DirectX and OpenGL.
Windowed mode has working minimise and close buttons.
Game and music pauses whenever focus is lost.
Full icon support.
Ini file to save user settings.
Extensive debug suite.
Take screenshots with F12.
Integrated mouse pointer.
Sound and music functions.
Sprite type.
Button type.
Menu type.
Splash screen.
Loading screen.
Title screen.
Fully working options screen.
Load, save and enter High Scores.
Other example screens such as Game Over and Credits.
Example types such as Player, Bullet, Alien etc.
Fast fade.
Manage multiple game screens easily.
BlitzMax fixes and workarounds.
And more!

I've since added a full game loop with lives, levels, game complete, level start map screen, shadows, multi-part animations etc. In short it rocks and I shouldn't even be selling it because it's like my miltary secrets, but I am.

here's the options page: is this alone worth £25 to you? "Yes" ... thought so. (btw, those shadows move around with the lightsource)



here's the game so far (notice it has shields, lives, targets and levels):

Sold!!

I just bought through Shareit. Hope to receive the framework soon. :)

That was quick. I've just emailed it. Many thanks - enjoy!

Got it. Thanks for the prompt service. :)

This might just push me into buying BMax... it is what I have been waiting for... (that and more info on that BMAX module for 3D) :)

Grey, five words: Elevator pitch, work on it.

lol, don't worry I know how to do it properly. I used to be in charge of marketing and sales for the last company I worked for. I just wrote that at 1am after a few drinks and kept it light-hearted for Amon's benefit - besides it worked didn't it! ;-p

Well yes it did, but I figure Amon was a pretty easy sell (no offense Amon). He'd already clearly stated his intent to purchase.

I feel manipulated ;-)

FlameDuck: heh, yeah but over the years I dealt with *many* people who clearly state their intention to buy who never do, or if they do it's with caveats. First rule of sales, "It's not a sale until the money is in the bank" However, I accept that Amon may have been easy ;-) You know I've even got a list of "potential customers" and I just moved Amon from potential to converted.

Anyway thanks Amon :-) I just made another sale too... which is probably due to you bringing this topic up again, so double thanks.

Woah, cool! Look! A framework!

*ka-ching!*

I don't understand why noone's done this before. I mean you either cobble a game together or make a decent reuseable framework. I'm sure people must have done this for themselves but aren't selling them. I may get some competitors soon though ... but mine'll still be the best ;-)

Wish somone would bump my threads..

lol ... what's it worth ;-)

Lol, I bumped his thread and my post got removed :)

I saw it. How strange...

Well I tend to think they have. When you develop a framework, not entirely unlike yours, there's 2 things you can do with it.

1) You can sell it and make a quick buck, to fund your ongoing development.
2) You can keep it to yourself and thus gain a competitive advantage.

Ofcourse people who do number one, often throw a spanner in the works, for people doing number two. :o>

Besides which I'm fairly sure the majority of people here have yet to realize the benefit of software designed to be reusable. The ammount of "I don't see the benefit of using object oriented practices" seems to confirm this.

Their loss really.

> Well firstly I'm about to release an update this week.

Watch out dude! Don't even think of abandoning this project of yours! Or else we'll have to call you dead alien from all these people who think they now own you forever. :)

I meant why no one has sold one before (in BlitzMax). I did think for a while that I could loose my competitive advantage, but in the end I thought I'd help others and make a bit of money meanwhile.

ENAY: Yeah, I'd better be careful ;-) Don't want a stinky thread stared about me. However, there's no point in me abandoning it as I use it myself. Unless I like become a buddhist monk! (btw, why do Americans say "boodist" it sounds weird.)

Because it sounds a bit like boobies and they're sexually repressed?

I suggest you to buy it.

Yes, it can help you from leraning many thing, some are basic, and can found in the forum, but Gray integrated them well.

And some are Grey's personal skill, very nice to learn from him.

Well I DO NOT make any commercial things myself, I code for fun, but this is still a nice base for you to build your Win32 game.

Heh, i still forgot to email you grey....!

Yoxola: Thanks

Neuro: go on then...

Probably because BlitzMax is still at that point where you need to put in quite a bit of work to get things working well - not everybody is prepared to do that. But if somebody else does the work, wraps it up in a user friendly framework and it's not too expensive then that's a different matter.

I won't sell my framework for any money.

OK, I'll have to give my money to Grey then ;oP

You could be wise as it *will* give you a competitive advantage. Plus when you sell it you have to document it well, answer pre-sales questions, and give support. However, I've actually enjoyed all this, so although time-consuming, it's been OK. (hey ... whisper ... perhaps you'd be interested in a trade at some point?)

Wedoe: Thanks ;-) check your email.

This is good stuff worthy of a *bump*

Correction, it *might* give him a competitive advantage. PRoviding it's better than your framework, and has less value than 25 quid.

Personally, I'd have thought someone like Rob, who has the opinions about Microsoft that he has, would be the first in line to buy an off-the-shelf solution, rather than write on one himself.

Wedoe: Thanks ;-) update coming soon ... I'm investigatinge an event-based main loop right now.

FlameDuck: hah, no, I meant something else by that line, I must have worded it badly. I mean he will gain a competitive advantage by NOT selling it because it means less people will be able to make quality games (and/or it will take them longer) and sell them thus competing with his games. I even considered this myself a while ago, but in the end I release the framework.

Does that mean you're still experimenting with it Grey? Have to say I find that a little disconcerting when I assumed the framework was complete.

I say that because one of the things that annoyed me about BlitzMax was when Mark decided to change things on a whim and my code no longer worked due to a re-think on the language. I'd like to use Blitz3d tbh because it's complete - rather than in development. If it weren't for the huge exe's (because the 2d and 3d libraries are tagged onto any program you use) I would.

Anyway, try not to let feature creep happen - we don't want you to write the game for us! Just a reliable framework of bug fixes/workarounds and basic code.

I don't think you have a clue at all what kind of opinion I do have. I don't support microsoft at all, in fact I think their business practises are lousy.

However I actually think the os is far more human friendly and I would prefer to use it. That is called clearing up your misconception...

I price my framework right now at about £500,000. My framework includes tools though. I think thats a fair price. Thats how much its worth to *me*, and being realistic, thats why its not for sale.

Steve: don't be concerned. You bought a very good solid framework to make games on. I'm adding some cool stuff to the AOTMG demo which you can optionally use in your games stuff like a map screen and user-profiles etc. However, as I gain new technical information I may update parts of the core, but my aim is never to break anything especially for users that have already started integrating with the framework. The event-based main loop may help the framework to run better on PCs overloaded with other crap running, so this is a good thing.

Thanks Jake.

Since today's games are all about eye candy I can't imagine how giving away your framework will compromise your competitive advantage.

The reason I've pretty much given up on programming games is because my programmer art robs me of my motivation to actually finish a project.

Otherwise I'd buy Grey's framework without a second thought.

Well, for people that can do art or hire an artist, they don't have to worry about the technical side so much, they can just get on and make the game (remember I'm talking Indie games here not AAA shop sold titles.) Or spend more time on fancy particle effects, although I'll be adding some of these to the framework soon ...

Also if you want to make some fun freeware games with programmer art, perhaps to beef up your portfolio, you can bung them out pretty easily with a framework like this.

I'd like to see a particle engine in the framework... Nudge, nudge ;-)

Youve Basicaly persuaded people to pay $49 to BETA test your product for you. Now that is cleaver ;)

Well thanks for that. Just so we're clear, it wasn't a stab at you.

I suppose that largely depends on what you mean by complete. Personally I think it's nice of Mr. Alien to add extra functionality (aka. value) to an already purchased product, without charging extra.

Here is the way it works. Greys (or Robs) framework basicly is basicly an ammount of code that you would have to write in almost any game, taking x ammount of time. In theory, this reduces their time-to-market by that ammount of work, meaning you will have a market exposure advantage. Secondly - people who buy it now (before it's proven itself, aka. early adopters) recieve an additional advantage in terms of familiarity and any extensions they may have developed in the interim, compared to people who are holding off buying until a few complete games have been written using it. Lastly it may give them a productivity advantage.

Except beta software is supposed to be feature complete.

Jimmy Krankie: Well I'm going to be adding certain particle effects for my next game so keep an eye out for that.

Basically the first version I released was weeks worth of work and would save people a lot of time and dealt with a lot of BMax issues, plus is good to learn OOP from. Since then I've just added more and more to it. Who can say when a thing like this is "complete". My customers say it is worth every penny/cent (and more) already. However, there maybe will reach a point where I can't take it too much further without adding stuff that I don't personally need for my next game.

@FlameDuck,
What on you on man. You start you post by defending the fact that that Greys Framework can be connciderd complete. Then End it by saying that it cannot be a beta, cos they are complete.

BUT Having Taken on board your comments I now rePost

@Grey
Youve Basicaly persuaded people to pay $49 to ALPHA test your product for you. Now that is clever ;)

And Flame, as you seemed to have missed the point. THIS IS A JOKE

H&K: You could say that people are alpha testing the base for my next game; but the framework was worth selling ages ago because it was plainly useful to people, and each day that passes it becomes more useful... :-)

Grey. Thats just what I was saying (Ie the product is the game).

You are so cunning in your plots. I bet the milkman pays you when he takes the empties away ;)

Greys Friend: "What are we going to do tommorrow night Grey?"
Grey: "The Same thing we do every night pinky, try to take over the world"

The Only reasons I havnet bought your framework are
1) I dont have $49 Dollars to spare
2) Athought the framework would save time in development for most people, It would prodably slow me down, because doing the frame work stuff is How Im trying to learn BMax, so if I bought it. I wouldnt have the skill in BMax to useit proply.
3) I realy dont have $49 Dollars to spare

lol OK fine. but re: 2) what if during learning how to use BMax properly you miss out several vital things that my framework has ... then your game will be like a car with a few missing wheelbolts, it goes pretty well until you hit some good speed on the motorway (sows seeds of paranoia ;-))

Ahhh, when I get to that stage, I'll post and ask you how to fix it;)

(Bear in mind my current project has a frame rate of 15, where as your framework has (I belive) 200 fps) :- We are making totaly different games.)

In fact, send me a copy of your framework, and Ill let you alpha test my game for free (hahahahahaha)

ah but what if you don't realise anything is wrong ;-)

Yeah you are correct 200fps is the logic speed but the rendering speed can be either fixed to the screen refresh rate e.g. 60Hz or with VSync off, as fast as your CPU/GPU can go.

If your finished game is REALLY good then maybe I'll swap a copy of my framework for it ;-)