Gallery - is there any point?

Can't help but think that people vote for screenshots in the gallery for all the wrong reasons.

Some people will give high scores to people they know, regardless of how good/bad the screenshots are. Likewise, unpopular people tend to get low scores whatever they post.

Another thing I've noticed is that people post a fairly bad screenshot from what's a clever technique - screenshots of stencil shadows is a great example. That gets a high score because people are voting for the technique, or the demo thats been linked to in the gallery blurb below the image.

Which brings me to this. How in the hell does this get a lower score than this?

Why don't we just ditch the gallery and replace it with a showcase?

GFK is right, a showcase would be much better.
BRL didn't have to store the files either, it
could be done like the blitzbasement used to
work; just a webpage here and all files and
pictures stored by the user elsewehere on the web..

I agree completely with what Gfx is saying and have longed for a showcase instead of the gallery but no one seems to be listening to their users...

Jason.

The gallery does it's job. It shows new users what a wealth of programs have been created in Blitz, and several hundred screenshots of in development or finished programs is no bad advert for Blitz.

I agree the ratings are largely irrelevent, but it's to be expected when so few votes are cast. They do provide a rough way of sorting the best from the worst though.

A showcase type website is a possibility for the future, it's something we've considered for a while. It probably wouldn't be a showcase like we've had in the past, more of a portal-type site.

But you base the random three gallery shots (on the homepage) on those ratings?

So yeah, they're very important - otherwise you could have things like this on the homepage, flying the flag for Blitz.

(No offence - I chose the second-lowest rated shot because the lowest one actually doesn't look as bad as its rating suggests, which only reinforces the point, really).

Largely irrelevent in terms of being an accurate indicator of screenshot quality. For example, lots of people award obviously outstanding screenshots 1-scores for some reason, for what reason I don't know.

Screenshots with a rating of >3 get put on the frontpage, which I think is fair in terms of a cut-off point.

How many of those shots are actually of finished games/utils though? I'd prefer it if there was only showcase of stuff you knew was finished. Basically to cut out chaff, and also people posting MORE THAN ONE screenshot from their game.

I agree with a showcase, seems odd that new games get announced on the news page (and then eventually die a death at the bottom) but screenshots from unfinished games get stored for years.

Yep, that's a pretty annoying one.

Oh, and lol @ typo :D

Knowing ENAY, I don't think that was a typo. :)

Yes, I agree with GFK. Problem is though that even a showcase like BlitzCoders or CodersWarezShop can be abused ratings wise.

Maybe there should be two seperate showcases. One for unfinished and WIP stuff and one for completed games/Software.

Ahem, what typo ;)

ALso what is the actual point of posting a shot? This entry is the worst rated:-

http://www.blitzbasic.com/gallery/view_pic.php?id=99&gallery=hr&page=39

Sure the shot doesn't look amazing, but if you read the writing, it's actually just a shot of a House building tutorial. (Which the link is broken I might add because it's such an old post)

I say, SCRAP IT, SCRAP IT ALL! :)

Too democratic for the wrong reasons. If I were BRL, then I would take my pick from the showcase and do a product "highlights" section.

Something that shows off.

I also get low scores as most of my work is done in 2D only.
A screenshot can never reflect a whole product! So I gave up on posting screenshots of my products.

A real showcase as it was on blitzcoder.com would be nice.
Broken links could be reported and tossed in the bin.

i dunno... i kinda like the screenshots forum...
i mean, the voting is supposed to be for the artistic
content and creative presentation of the scene elements, right, and not for some perceived next killer app it's supposed to represent...

... or maybe i've got it all wrong.

anyways... i always go through there and check out the latest works by the members... so much talent... seriously...

... we'd be at a loss if it were taken down.

--Mike

Gallery - is there any point?


No

I think a gallery is OK but maybe a showcase could also be added. The gallery helped get the motion blur technique noticed and also some people use the gallery to show off rather than use the forums.

@ Red Oktober - I agree, the gallery works as a 'gallery', for artistic content - is it good eye candy ? It's not about whether it's a killer app or not ??

@ Slunkar - agree with you also...

Grisu: not to sure about 2d not being rated as 3d. My Geometry Wars clone screenshot gets rated pretty good: http://www.blitzbasic.com/gallery/view_pic.php?id=1327&gallery=&page=1
I also hate multiple shots from the same program so I added 4 of em in one image.

I hate multiple submissions for the same thing as well.... Although I can understand that people want as much free real estate for advertising as possible. Still pisses me off when they try to monopolize the gallery!

My only submission a few years back:
http://www.blitzbasic.com/gallery/view_pic.php?id=186&gallery=hr&page=33

Although, with only 14 votes, who knows.....

@DH I agree, moderators could scrub all 'multiple submissions' which would ensure that if anyone wanted to submit multiple submissions successfully they would have to adopt Wiebo's considerate posts.

People update their screenshots as a product is developed so this can happen - I'm sure people wouldn't mind their old screenshots being deleted.

I think the gallery is fine, but that unfortunately there's no way to stop people from voting with a bias. For example, halo posted some pictures that were almost HL2 quality and they get rated extremely low because, well, he's halo. Whereas my old scene in the gallery, which is extremely crappy, is higher up on the list.

You can't update screenshots that you've sent already.

I've only ever browsed in the gallery a couple of times, say, in the last 4 or whatever years I've been posting in this forum. Yes, things might look nice and pretty, but then, looks are'nt everything!

If BR want to make Blitz more appealing, then I think a showcase is the perfect idea, a REAL hands on experience of what coders are creating with their products!

Also, I see Grisu's point about seperating 3D and 2D, even in a future showcase... If we get one! :)

But then, what the majority wants never gets! ;)

Dabz

Gallery... I'd like to see it divided into sections like:

-FINISHED & released projects
-Tool-like apps
-Games

Also posting several (very similar) screenies from the same whatever annoys me too, but on the other hand I couldn't decide what ONE screenshot I'd take from a games like FarCry / HL2 / Doom3 for example... environments usually change a lot within the game, so choosing just one might be impossible.

And maybe finished (or maybe even ones with a demo link) projetcs could be allowed to publish more than one screen? That might work as an incentive to get it actually done :)

is there any point to this question?

Thats why you do a makup image of 4 images or so, or even put a link in the description to another site where further screenshots are hosted.

:-)

So it seems to me that people are confused about whether their vote should represent the technical potential of the game/application or its artistic merits. Personally, I've always voted on the superficial artistic appeal of the gallery entries, but I'm shallow like that.

@Mustang: Gallery... I'd like to see it divided into sections like:-FINISHED & released projects, Tool-like apps, Games

I agree....

Better like this (divide into):
- Games
- Tools
- Apps
- Demos
- Screensavers

And then have a tag for "beta", one for "finished" and one for "released"
and also the possibility to search by those criteria in the showcase.

..and a tag for what kind of Blitz was used to create them.

I agree. Any different and it'd be like looking at The Hay Wain, and saying its a crap painting because the cart is made of cheap wood and is stuck in a river.

Actually I was just discussing with IPete2 the other day that it would be cool if the front page rotated those games in the top left corner but only with 100% completed games that could be posted in a special gallery. Also another gallery needs to be made with tech demos for B3D and Max (possibly BPlus) so that people interested in the engine can checkout some nicely made tech demos that really show the systems off.

I've submitted one of my screenshots 2 or 3 times and it was never put up. :'( Then again, I can understand why it wasn't. The screenshot is below:

well... i've never had anything that i thought was worthy... so i've yet to submit a shot...

most of the stuff i've seen there represents work that is way above my skill level... i just wonder why so very few of these ever materialize into real games... i mean, the artwork is AAA...

--Mike

It's all pretty subjective since it's all to do with giving an opinion. I think a lot of people vote based on how pretty the image is, as if it were a piece of art, and if it has good color and nice looking models and graphics then it seems to get higher score even if it's not really anything new. I tend to mark certain shots down if I don't like the topic of the content regardless of any technical prowess. It's highly personal so not likely to reflect anything objective.

I never visit the gallery page and I quit visiting the main page once it became plastered with user made stuff.

I too dont visit the gallery page, but i do visit http://www.devimg.net/ sometimes. I prefer comments to voteing.

As for the main page i am waiting for the rss feed.

One thing that needs to stop getting through to the gallery is screenshots of WIPs, unless they are proof of concept and the graphics are actually done.

I think it's totally lame when someone submits a gallery entry that says "Hi, this is my game. I've been working on it for 3 days now... it will take about 2 years still and I'm looking for coders!
Done:
The test level
To do:
..
..
..
..
I am still missing the texture on that toilet, too."

Okay, a showcase is needed with comments. Like the old blitzcoder days. And the highest commented can be displayed for new-soon-to-join guests just popping in wondering about blitz.

GFk , you didn't by any chance get a low score in the gallery:)

I've never posted anything in the gallery.

> Which brings me to this. How in the hell does this get a lower score than this?

but it doesn't!

hey... i just posted my first attempt in the galleria... the first thing i thought was halfway decent enough to show...

and i'm seriously not interested in how high it rates... i'll just be happy to see it pop up once in a while when i log on here...

--Mike

> i just posted my first attempt in the galleria

Galleria? That's an interesting typo, keep taking the tablets Mike, 3 of them presumably.

> i'll just be happy to see it pop up
> once in a while when i log on here...

I'm sure you would ;)

I like the gallery a lot, just wish more people would rate stuff in it to even out the scoring more appropriately.

did ENAY say something... or was that a mouse farting...

somebody give him something to do... he's really starting to sound so pathetic... all alone... looking for attention in the only way he knows how...

his jokes used to be somewhat funny, but like someone recently pointed out, they're just so lame lately, as to be almost an annoyance...

ahhhh, never mind... lets get back on topic and ignore him... 'till he learns some manners... or at the very least, some new jokes...

--Mike

Red> I just gave you a 5 on that just in spite of everyone else. But it really is worth a 4.

thx PCD... i'm putting you in my will :)

--Mike

Get him to sign on the dotted line, on all 3 of them.

crist! I actually agree with Red, I need help (or perhaps a labotamy).

I've just ranked your picture Red, I gave you a 3...

I just read this thread again, had a look at Red's new gallery shot and was immediately struck with indecision -->Do I rate this on its visual quality or on the fact that I know Red has been working on this for a long long time?

thx ENAY... you definitely won't be in my will :P

Matty... i'll take the sympathy points :)

Dark Half... strange days, aint it :)

--Mike

TBH I think the gallery should be pruned every so often

I was concerned about the gallery before it was instituted, but after a little while it seemed to be working. Obviously it's not perfect, but as long as it's good enough (ie. the better screenshots are the ones that are in the front-page rotation) that's all that really matters.

I don't think the gallery should be pruned, whoever made whatever is up there is proud of it and that should be respected.

I think the author should be able to edit and perhaps delete their gallery postings. I know I have at least a couple I'm not happy with and would have prefered to update them later on.

Of course updating would make the scoring wrong so I suppose it wouldn't make sense to do that.