PrePurchase Max3D?

I want to buy Max3D now whatever state it's in. I need to buy it otherwise I can't rest.

Post in this thread if you wish to PrePurchase Max3D.

To give you insight in to what I would be willing to pay I can say that if a purchase option which gives access to Max3D beta is made available now, I would be able and am willing to pay $100 for it.

maybe they want to develop it in peace. If everyone had a beta verison they'd be posting this and that and BRL wouldn't be able to focus.

Granted there are negatives to releasing a Beta but the positives should be concentrated on eg. Bug fixing, help with development and most importantly of all a release of the beta would shut people like me up :)

[OT] Can't buy your framework because I have to setup a paypal account to do it and I don't want to do that. I'm particularly interested in the fixed logic framework. It'd be nice if I could pay the £21.50 without having to set up a payscam account.

Here we go again! lol :D

Dabz

Well, there's lots of stuff in Blitzmax that seems to have eluded the existing team of beta testers, so a more wide open approach can only be a good thing for Max3D. I'm sure that nobody wants Max3D to be hounded by problems for the next 18 months (from its release date).

reading marks last worklog, i doubt max3D is yet in beta state...

remember: beta means 'feature-complete'...

but to get ontopic: yep my money is reserved too. as soon as max3d comes out and no major problems arise BlitzMax+MaxGUI+Max3D will find its way right on my HDD ;)

Amon: You're U.K. based right? Fancy sending a cheque? When it clears, I'll email the code. I'll even knock of the price of a stamp, so £21.20 :-) I was considering using ShareIt like sswift but it seems like a lot of admin I don't have time for right now. I'd rather be spending it improving the framework...

Yes, or if Amon doesn't have a checkbook, you could do it with a postel order.

I'd ask for a pound of flesh, myself. :P

Since Max3D is based on OpenGL I wonder will Mark whip out a DX solution, or at least a translation layer like Torque uses.

It's true that Torque's bottleneck is speed, but I might stick with it till I see Max3D in action, well most ppl here is waiting for it...

i'd really like to see it myself... but i've got plenty to do right now, so BMax3D, irrlicht, OGRE, whatever3D will have to wait a while, as i really don't need any distractions right now...

they even got a resource out recently for Torque out that lets you add shaded water to the thing... now you know that if a tease like that is waved in my face, and i can ignore it, i'm definitely not ready to start rush the BMax3D team... at least not right now...

gotta get collisions with this damn Blitz3D terrain working properly first :)

--Mike

Red: Pick a bloody engine/language and stick to it, already! :)

considering the amount of issues that got past the GUI testers it might be worthwhile to allow people access to the 3d module.

/I agree, but you know its not going to happen.

I say open it up. All early adopters are going to be little more than beta testers, anyways.

@ chris...

i know... i'm just so fickle, man :)

so far, Blitz3D is the only one that's giving me a chance at coming close to finishing this sub thing... no gooey plasticy shadered things, but hey, ya can't have everything...

but even Blitz is a pain sometimes... this darn collision crap don't seem to be working, or i don't seem to understand it... i'm playing with it now, trying to add actors into a scene, and have em fall to the ground... but the damn fools keep falling right through the ground...

i'm trying a workaround now...

--Mike

You're like a magpie, you are. Anything shiny and you HAVE to have it. :)

j/k

not everything... just something that looks like DOOM3...

is that asking too much (in a Charlie Brown voice) :)

did ya see the post i made over on the graphics showcase forum... i would've used that in a second, and still might for a different project... but it's geared towards inside scenes only... the lighting just drops to hell when you try an outside scene, and would be better used without the shaders... which is the very reason i licensed it in the first place...

there's always something!!!!

:)

--Mike

Pretty dissapointed in the beta testing so far - they need a real tester like that one eyed jack fellow. He's always had a knack for finding bugs.

Whatever floats your boat, man.

(pun fully intended!) :P

actually... my 'boat' is submerged at the moment...

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=59256

--Mike

How even a sub is normally "floating" at a certain depth, othwise it would be rising or sinking ... ?

nuetral bouyancy... blow negative trim tanks (at least in this sim)... but i think for realism, i may add a minute hull leakage over a period of time so you won't be able to just sit there and hover forever without making some noise or moving...

--Mike

I don't think the engine is anywhere near ready for public consumption. From what Mark said it looked like he had a lot of cool stuff going on, but how to get it all working in a cohesive easy to manage whole had eluded him. I think we will be lucky to see it by the end of the year to be honest.

If you want to persuade them to release it earlier you'll have to do better than that. Lets see, Torque which is arguably the market leader, is 500USD. So given a 30% discount for buying into the underdog (Max3D), a competitive starting price point would be 350 USD.

However since early adopters are usually willing to 'pay more for less' compared to the mainstream market, a reasonable early beta copy should cost about 450USD.

Ofcourse the problem here is that Max3D is better comparable to something like Torque Shader Engine, which is 1000USD, giving a mainstream market price of 700USD and an early adopter price of 900USD.

I'd assume that if BRL where to change their marketing and product strategy, that would be the kind of numbers needed to convince them.

Still want an early copy?

I've always thought this was a bad idea. But recently I've been using TV3D 6.5, which is still in beta. It works exactly the same way. You only get the beta if you've paid. There's a set of rules to follow, but nothing draconian. It works very well. Screenshots can be posted, enticing people who haven't bought, and the extensive testing means that

a) People are used to the quirks.
b) All the bugs get fixed.

BlitzMax itself was good, it works well. But Max2d and MaxGUI have shown that it just isn't possible to have too much testing, and there are still many niggly bugs, glitches and problems. Clearly a new policy needs to at least be considered. If it requires a much stricter license, so be it. If it - TV3D style - means kicking people who break the rules off the beta and not letting them use the product any more - again, so be it. Make the license clear and there won't be any problems.

Haha, we haven't had this for a while. I'm in no hurry for the 3D modules.

I'd rather the 2D version was completed first.

I feel sorry for the people who are unable to start or finish their projects because of always waiting and browsing for the next generation of languages. I often wonder why some people here are even trying to be programmers. I'd feel gutted if I spent years and years not actually making anything.

Actually I don't feel sorry for anyone because I enjoy winding these people up too much, if everyone got on with their work I'd have no fun being sarcastic.
So come on please moan brigade, carry on procrastinating. I love it! :)

Flameduck: Thats silly, the usual policy is to charge less for beta access as the users are not only providing a cash stream, theyre doing your beta testing for you. I dont think any of the people asking for Max3D beta access would expect a discount but you can be sure they wont pay such a ludicrous bonus fee as youre sugesting.

I don't think it's too likely that they'd have a version of the whole system with no empty parts or loopholes or strange anomalies, ready for general public consumption as a beta.

I think pre-ordering is potentially a good idea, but I'm not so sure you'll get an early product out of it.

..I wouldnt buy anything from BRL based on their promises or some 'early' versions..the way how they behaving and treating customers questions about famous Max3D module is not something I'm willing to pay for .. when i see stuff working well, I will consider purchase option..by then I'll be silent about Max3D on the same way as they are silent..

I'd be inclined to be just getting on with using one of the other 3rd party 3D modules. I see that OGRE has been in development for 5 years. Irrlicht and TV3D have been developed extensively for a long time too. By the time Max3D is released these engines will have progressed further.

Personally I don't see how Max3D is going to keep up when the other engines are already so far ahead. Why would I want to be using Max3D if it does not equal or surpass the feature set of Irrlicht or Ogre.

It's also painfully obvious that BRL doesn't like the situation we now have where there are already a number of 3rd party engines working fine. Maybe instead of working against this, BRL could do an official wrapper of a 3D engine similar to how PureBasic has an OGRE implementation. I can't see why it's necessary for Mark to waste his time writing yet another 3D engine. He should be concentrating on the core BMax language, Max2D and MaxGUI.

You know, no offense to people but...


I kind of think Mark likes to sort of just do it at his pace. A bunch of pressure and expectation can't help.

because no engine fits better into max, than the engine made by the max-makers themselfs. 'nough said ;)

hmm, Torque shader engine is $100 for TGE plus $150 on top for the Shader engine. It's only $1000 for commercial games that gross over $250,000.

They also have the TSE for Xbox360 which is $10,000 per indie title whilst in Early adopters, and $25,000 on release

Commercial games in early adopters for TSE is $25,000 and will be $50,000 per game.

So it is quite expensive, Will be interesting to see what Ogres non LGPL licence will cost. The next version will come with a LGPL or commercial licence which will also allow you to port to consoles.

OMGROFL!!!ON EONEN0T ANUFER FREAD LIK DIS!!!!!E!LEVENTY!!!!

Whose usual policy? Getting early access to beta software is a competitive advantage. If you're not willing to pay a premium to get that advantage, that's fine. You'll just have to wait in line like everyone else for the product to mature. In the mean while your competitors will be pulling ahead in the race for market segment leadership, as they now have the superior technology. Sure if you're already in a position of market segment leadership (like Torque) its somewhat easier to fend off the wolves, but if you're fighting for the scraps, you need every edge you can get.

Because if you follow in someone elses footsteps, you will never pass them.

Well the reason I picked the expensive one as basis for my calculations was that BlitzMAX does not currently have any such commercial limitations on licenses. Given BRLs history of wastly underpricing their software, I don't expect Max3D to be anywhere near that expensive, when it's eventually released.

I personaly think that Torque is overpriced, and BRL have a history of underpricing their products in the market. I'd be surprised if Bmax3D module costs more than $100.

Good point. I just don't see how you pass someone when they have such a massive head start.

No disrespect intended to anyone including BRL. Just looking at the number of features that these engines already support is mind boggling. I really do hope I'm wrong though, cause I'd rather use Max3D too.

Well in the case of Max3D, they don't really have that massive a head start as far as I can tell. Also remember that Max3D is being written by one guy, with a pretty clear sense of direction, where-as many of the other engines have different authors with different philosophies, all pulling it in different directions. Last but not least, Mark is on his engine as a full-time professional.

But is that nessecarilly an advantage? I mean unless you're Red Ocktober and want to make shiny submarine simulators (no offense), there's only likely to be a handful of features that you really need, and from what I can tell from Marks shader worklog, getting a lot of these features is simply going to be a case of mixing and matching suitable shader parameters.

Now if Mark can really pull of this feat, and present it in a userfriendly manner, I think Max3D is going to increase the ammount of power a mathematically challenged person, is able to coerce out of 3D hardware, by at least an order of magnitude.

Still if you abosolutely must have a 3D solution now, it's not going to make a lick of difference whether Max3D is the second comming, because it isn't out yet, and pretty likely you'll be able to finish a game using one of the other engines (ColdSteel / Aurora) offered in the mean time.

> and pretty likely you'll be able to finish a game
> using one of the other engines (ColdSteel / Aurora)
> offered in the mean time.

BINGO! I mean Max3D has been in dev for ages, over a year, any serious programmer could've easily made almost 2 games in that time (or maybe 1 3D game) since the announcement.

I'd gladly pay right now for a EA version of max3d. I'd gladly pay for an alpha, let alone a beta.
Shit I'd pay for a source code non module release.

But I don't see it happening, mark usually keeps his beta testing private amoung a group of people he trusts not to give it out.

..welcome back Ant..I'm glad to see you buddy :))

Thanks. It's good to be back. Now the aurora march may go on. :)

I don't think so. I think its personal preference. I never betrayed anyone when I used to test b3d and B+, yet I am not testing max for some reason. I'm not upset by this, but I kinda think someone who doesn't like me probably stitched me up and tried their utmost not to let me test.

Flameduck mentions that you need to pay a premium to for the opportunity to beta test and get a head start on your competitors.

He speaks truely from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't actually do any real testing. Beta testing, real testing, is hard work.

I found hundreds of bugs and reported them back when I used to test and I can assure you it isn't easy work writing example code to narrow down and help find those bugs.

I guess some people are happy to just sit back and get the software early instead...

I'd be a good beta-tester.

heh One Eye, you've probably been too confrontational, and had a bit of a run in with BRL previously over Bmax. Doubt if that helped much. All is forgiven but not quite forgotten or something.

Besides it might not be far enough along to require testing yet.

Aurora: Check your mail please!!