Aurora

innocent question, why was ants topic locked for being a competeing product, its not a language and part of it is actually for blitzmax so im not sure whats going on?

i dont use aurora or have any link to it, im just wondering what caused this "treatment"

I was itching to post about this.

I believe BRL may be feeling threatened by the product as it enables easy use of 3D in quite a few languages.

Aurora actually came around because we wanted to use Max, and because Max had no 3D engine, so we found our own way to do it.

I don't think letting the c# coders here know that a c# version is available shouldl warrant a lock at all!

Yes, but also at the heart of it its a 3D engine for Blitz. Which will be competeing with the official BlitzMax 3D Engine (when its out)

Plus about 5 threads for it in some way or another is abit exesive (less if they didn't keep being locked :)). Aurora has its own forum that can be used, with just a link in the toolbox.

This thread should be locked also, as there's no point in discussing the absolute obvious.

The module wasn't a problem, it is when you begin advertising modules and addons for competing languages.

i find myself in agreement as well... sorry beak, james...

Aurora is a definite plus for the Blitz community... not a threat in any way... at least, from my lowly position on the totem pole, i can't see it as one...

--Mike

If it should have been locked it should have been for the amount of threads... not for the threat to BRL.

Wow, talk about overreacting. Skidracer, in words of Chandler, could you be more petty? Seriously? Don't take it out on me because bmax isn't selling as well as you like, and also don't take it out on me because I'ev wrote a 3d engine that offers someting yours doesn't.(You know, people can actually use it now, instead of waiting another five centuries for mark to release it)

I'm pissed off now. What you going to do about that skidracer, ban me? Go ahead.

And to top off you act like a spoilt brat of a child and have a dig at my typo in my sig. Seriously, you were supposed to set an example for others to follow. Grow up man, really grow the (bleep) up.

Yes, I think its abit harsh that on one side they encourage people to develop modules. But if they compete with the future plans of BRL then they are then cut off from the userbase that the product is primaraly for.

Aurora looks lke a good module, and might get alot of people (like me) to buy BlitzMax as we can develop in 3D now. Then move over to the BlitzMax3D Module when it comes out. I really can't see this stopping people buying the officially supported engine when its out if there intrested in 3D.

What I don't get is that this 3d'ish thread gets locked while there's oodles o' giant IGlass threads! Except for the lack of a true native event-system, it's also a 'competing product' I'd say.

Yeah to top it off the Damage control is now in full effect. You'll notice the once locked thread has now mysteriously disapperaed all together.

What makes it worse is they'll act like perfect little demigods, refusing to acknowledge they screwed up or are in the wrong, simply deleting any posts that counter their decision.

Expect this thread to be deleted soon.

*definitely* moving to C#.

Oh get over it, we have a very high guest to user visitor ratio on this site.

Question SkidRacer, are you going to lock any thread I post in now seeing as I've moved the announcement to my sig?

Or are you going to forcefully remove it from my sig?

Do I have to envoke my freedom of speech rights or do they only apply when you agree with what is being said? I believe there is a word for that, it begins with n, ends with i and as a z in there somewhere.

yeah... calm down a bit everyone... lets discuss this, and not start yelling at each other...

Ant... take it easy... remember what i told you before... you gotta be above all this if you expect to head any sort of company...

--Mike

The trantrum being had is the one by you, when you insulted me and silenced me for creating a product that betters your own. Natch.

Skid, I've no issue with you personally- just... You need to explain a little more behind your reasoning. It seemed totally unfair to lock the thread.

[edit]

Ant, I'm totally with you but I actually took his "typo" pisstake as a joke, I can't see it being anything more.

So what you are saying is c# + aurora is actually really rubbish and my job security is not directly threatened.

Whew, thats good to hear, I obviously got the wrong end of the stick.

I'm perfectly calm. I stop bleeping my swear words when I lose my temper :)

oops, wish i never posted now... was just wondering.

edit: k i get the c# thing but anyone on these forums will know of c# and such anyhow.

come on guys... this surely is not helping anything...

--Mike

Reading comprehension FTW. (That's for the win, I expect you're more familar with german catch phrases.)

You tool. Skid. Absolutey disgraceful tool.

See you could have worded that better at the end of the old thread and explained the issue, and we'd be okay, Instead you've directly thrown an insult at Ant and the product. Was that needed?

Well if its the C# thing, there has been quite a few discussion in the past week about C# and the TV3D engine. All of Gabes stuff etc, people discussing other engines. Why lock Ants stuff, which also helps Blitz?

Because I threaten their potential beer money fund methinks. "Oh teh noes, less brewskies for uskies"

[EDIT] I give up. The Blitz forums are pathetic. It really is time to move on.

Ant, change your sig- thats just childish. Yer better n' that.

Yeah good point avon. I'll change it now. I'll beat them, but it won't be with words, it will be with a kick ass product that does everything their does only better.

OK calm down antony...:)

Well perhaps like me he was a bit tired of seeing it bumped up the top everytime it went half way down.

So yeah, you've made your Aurora announcement, and in a couple of threads already, we know about Aurora! Get over it.
Time for you to get back to work :)

That's not really accurate though, I never once bumped it, merely responded to questions asked.

I challenge you to find one bump in your history cache :)


But yeah, back to work I go, oh ho oh ho.

Lets end this thread of a good note with some news. No point in debating it any further, skid is too stubborn to change his mind and so am I.

Anyway the news,
I've just succesfully wrapped Jv-Ode for C# and willl include a series of ode classes with Aurora Net as of the next version.
So Aurora Net now includes not one but two fully realised physic solutions!

Lol, a wrapper for an ODE wrapper! :P

...

Ok ok, *grumble* no one will let me have my fun *grumble*

:)

Anyway good news about ode huh? There's absolutely no way i'm using bmax for the game now. Well provided you and ad are ok with it. :)

I am sorry Ant, there is no way I can take you seriously.

You moan like a little girl, you pimp and spam the forums with your wrappers ( each discussion turns into an IRC session ), and you fail to listen to constructive criticism.

So basically, you alienate your product from prospective buyers.

Oh yeah, and content like this ( priceless )
http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=7294&log=655

ehhhhmmm... When are all this type of topics end about Aurora. The fact is simple Antony, Damien and Adrian has done a great job putting the Aurora together. If you dont like it or Antony. Dont buy it. Wait for MAX3D or whatever. But if you want to have all the hyped features today and release something soon this is really good tool for get everything going.

*Throws a chair and waits to see what happens*

Wow, only took 34 posts before this became my fault. That's what's priceless. You tool.

If you are working on a product and have put so many hours of work in it.. And so many just piss on you and the product i think you would be a little upset.
I think thats why Mark dont shows up so much in the forums.
For not to start all of these discussions.

I agree, that thread locking was completely absurd.
BlitzMax is touted as giving us the ability to put any user built modules on it that we want; it enables lower level access so that we aren't tethered to BR's graphics engines.

By locking that thread, skid may as well have simply erased one of BM's best features from its product page.
If people aren't allowed to use a different engine while they wait for the currently vapourious Max3d (though no doubt very good; I do trust Mark to deliver a fantastic product, and I will give it a chance) to waddle in, there is something very wrong.

I'd say that your job security is more threatened when you force your company's stance to being one that limits people's right to choose the 3d engine that they want.

May I remind you that BlitzMax's modules cost LESS than the language itself. Taking the stance that you did, people may easily decide not to buy the language, let alone the 3d module!


It's interesting that the thread locking was not Antony's fault. It was, once again, someone else's fault... for stating that Aurora is Max's premier 3d engine at the moment. (Apparently, the premier 3d engine is supposed to be a product which isn't in Beta yet).

Now I see that the thread has been deleted.
Perhaps you would like to restate your reasoning for that?

Antony, please don't get yourself banned.
You may be angry at skid right now, but getting banned from the forums will hurt you too. (And people who buy Aurora expecting it to support future updates to BM.)
Besides, your little ode to skid is not going to help support your point.

Now, I understand the point that there are a huge number of threads on Aurora (though they get filled up pretty fast!), and that the C# ones aren't really related to Blitz (though this is General Discussion...), but a much better way to deal with the problem is to take your finger off the lock/delete button for once, and kindly ask Antony to start posting news on Aurora's C# variant on his own site instead of here. People interested in the product would follow the links and find out that it works with C#, too! (Etc.)
A lock/delete was not necessary, and not fair.

IMHO, spending time to advertise will benefit BlitzMax's sales far more than spending time to delete "competing products".

Actually, by eliminating Aurora, you will probably lose more customers than you gain (I don't think a prospective buyer would be too happy to know that their posts will always be in danger of being deleted due to the possibility of it containing a "competing product").

Besides, as long as Max3D is superior to Aurora, you've got nothing to worry about :).

Edit:

I agree!

The irony though, I still don't know what Aurora is.

Aurora is a 3D game engine for BlitzMax, C#, Visual Basic, and other languages.

I can see from Skidracer's and BRL's point of view, they are a company and this is their website that they put here to promote their products and give people a place to discuss things etc, to build a community, but still under the guise that this is good for supporting the financial viability of the future of the product line. So it's not really suprising that if you bring out some kind of product that they believe directly competes with their product line, you are basically at odds with their intention for these forums and services they are providing. They have the right to not have your products or discussions about your products present on their website. I think you should take it as a complement, Mr Aurora, that they consider your product viable enough and enough of a threat of competition that it warrants them being concerned and needing to take action. If you are going to compete with them, you can't really expect them to shake your hand and welcome you into their bosom. There are commercial lines drawn that you can't cross.

I think the way that you are reacting so angrily is something that could be better channeled into productivity and focus and drive to make your product even better. I think it is already a good product and is quite attractive, which is why BRL is taking you as a threat. I don't think it helps your image to create a dirty worklog or to throw insults and names. If you are concerned about the future of your own product and about making it even better, and selling it, you should really maintain a more professional persona, because you are advertising yourself and your products with everything you do. I would be put off purchasing something from you, not because of a matter of making a point but because you are throwing a tantrum. At this point BRL's response to you seems, to me, to be more mature, and that's points on their scorecard. While I don't necessarily agree with all of the ways that BRL responds or presents themselves, they are at least conducting themselves as a reasonably mature company most of the time.

I think your emotional reaction largely comes from your emotional investment in these forums, in thinking of this space as your home and somewhere that you have freedom of expression, and the expectation that comes with that - that you can create anything you like and BRL won't mind. You've reached the ceiling and bumped your head. Do you really need to be at war with BRL or can you have some forgiveness, get past this and move on? Perhaps a small apology on their part might be in order, to be good sports, but that's another matter.

What Daniel said ...

Oh, and go start trying to promote your own forums etc... for discussion of your product. It's pretty tough to promote without leeching off some other establishment. That's the tricky part. Of course getting that complete game out there with a powered by Aurora splash screen in it would be the way to go ... real work and all that.

Anyway, good luck! You're really got a shot with this one ;)

Here's my take on it. The Bmax module has its place here, the C# and NET stuff is direct competition for bmax and has no place here at all.

I suggest Aurora only mention the Bmax wrapper and learn a bit about how to handle the business and marketing of his own products properly.

Change the AURORA forum header graphics, and put a C# .NET banner up in its stead. Finish your engine and then market and sell it properly elsewhere.

Keep the Aurora for Bmax here, and I think no one would be stepping on one anothers toes. And one word of advice, when your going to write emails, logs and whatever that are confrontational, leave the computer take a stroll before posting. I usualy end up copying and pasting mine elsewhere and saving them till later, once most of the initial anger has worn off and I can see things more clearly and rarely post anything that I had originaly intended. Saving myself looking like a immature twit :P

I still do it sometimes, you should have seen some of the exchanges Jeremy and I had a couple of months ago. It all seemes such a big deal at the time, but nothing really changed and were probably both relieved that we didn't make fools of ourselves on the forums.

This stuff is particularly important if your trying to market a product. I'd suggest getting someone else do it for you who isn't so emotionaly involed.

I'm not sure BRL would be entirely comfortable having the blitzmax-based stuff on their website, if the same person who makes it also makes C# and .Net stuff sold elsewhere.???? Or is this getting too much into background checks and conspiracy theories?

I dont think BRL can do much about Aurora selling a Max module on the site at all... :)

The thread in question was a continuation of an already locked Aurora Net thread pimping a new product for C# programmers wanting a 3D engine.

I don't want to discourage Ant from his BlitzMax modules but I don't see why he should'nt be treated like every one else as in if a complete stranger (and 80% of our traffic are visitors and hence don't know him from a bar of soap) posted an ad for a c# 3D engine it would be removed immediately also.